Is Downloading Music Stealing? Not In My...

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Originally posted by BlizZ@1 July 2003 - 20:53
Stealing or Not?

I download music.
Some people believe that it's stealing.
In my opinion, I don't think it is.

If it was stealing, then it would be going into a store and sneaking an object out to keep for yourself. When you go to the store to buy a music CD, that's not the same thing what you're getting when you DOWNLOAD an audio file. An audio file is NOT a music CD. When you download a song, thats not what you get when your buying a CD at the store, your getting a file on your computer.
Stealing (in my opinon) is NOT downloading some data with YOUR own personal computer, but is physically taking something from someone and keeping it.

When you're downloading music on the computer, you're not downloading a music CD, your downloading an audio file.

Anyways, that's what I think, PLUS I'm Christian and I don't want to believe that it's stealing.
Everybody let me know what your opinion is. If you think it's stealing or not. ;)

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Okay, I'm gonna try to bring this back on topic...

The word "stealing" obviously has different meanings in different contexts. ie, I doubt Jesus or whoever wrote the christianity rules used the word stealing with knowledge of our current legal definition for it (or the concept of file-sharing!).

Blizz, I'm thinking that you're wanting to know whether or not it is stealing given the intended meaning of the word when it was used to write your religious laws. I'm thinking that it was mostly based around "don't steal 'cos it makes people unhappy". So, maybe you should be trying to work out whether file-sharing makes people unhappy or hurts them or whatever reason "stealing" was thought to be bad for.

Sorry to say, but this seems to lead to making your own decisions about what's right and wrong! I'd expect that everyone sees clear problems with not evolving our laws to allow for new social issues (ie. file-sharing), but somehow it's different for religious laws! I'm sure the advice you live by (christianity) is very good for both you and those around you, but I don't think it can decide this issue for you. I think our society has changed a bit too much.

Hope this makes sense for you (and that I don't sound too anti-religious)!

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This is a very simple topic.
To steal is to take without permission or without request.
to steal something one must actually obtain something physical
When a song or file is downloaded, The person downloading it does not actually gain any thing form it. either then a sound file, ther is no physical component to downloading. I cannot hold an mp3 in my hand. People who have bought a cd or game and have puit the iso or mp3 on a file sharing sotware company are offering to share thier purchased goods, like cds and games. We are not strealing becuase the files are open and offered to us. We are not taking without permission, we are sharing and recieving file we leave open to anyone whom feels they need it. Unlesss we were actually going into a CD store and physically taking a Cd, then this would be stealing, but since the CDs/files have been purchased, it is left open to the owere to make their decision on where the files go. Its that simeple.

I agree. If you turn on the radio your givin music free 24/7. downloading a file isnt really any different. The songs are ripped from cds already purchased. The owner is allowing us to listen to bought goods. I doubt very few people have the intent to burn and sell what they get. If so, then they have a right to bitch.

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The owner is allowing us to listen to bought goods

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Actualy no. as i said b4 they dont own the music the artist does.
you are giving your music (sharing) to someone who does not have a license to play the media on their chosen hardware.

you have brought a license not the actual music.

since the music/media can be on cassette, cd, mp3 ... the medium is not the property of the artist , only the acoustic/visual nature of the medium in question . you own the physical cd/tape etc but the music is the artists.

You can copy media but u cant copy the valid license that is required to use the media.

You are not infringing on the copyrights since you are not proffeting from the music, you are gaining no money from the copy. you are not selling it off or rerecording the media as saying its your own work. if u do proffit then you are in breach of copyright. am i wrong ( just thought of that)

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Originally posted by jrzofclay@9 July 2003 - 00:45
The definition of stealing is "taking something that isn't yours or doesn't belong to you."

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That sounds a lot more like I'd imagine the Christian definition to be (I don't think our current legal definition for stealing is relevant).

The only problem is, than definition (the Christian one you quoted) may have been written with the assumption that taking something from someone deprives them of that something (as information ownership was unknown). The depriving aspect would probably be why it is said to be wrong (ie. the intent of the "don't steal" rule/law may have been to stop people depriving each other of items they own). You probably need to focus more on intents than specific words.

On the other hand... if something isn't good, it is normally bad. In this case, I can't imagine that filesharing overall helps the artist / record company / owner, which kinda implies that it must be negatively affecting them (which I don't think fits in with Christianity).

The person I download the file from isnt making a penny off of me. and I make no profit from the person who downloads from me. And so on. etc. etc. maybe they should make all of our fm receivers coin operated and charge so much an hour for us to listen. Then the lobster stuffing fat cats that own the record labels can add an extra ten feet to their hundred foot yachts. think about that next time you rape your wallet 15 bucks for 1 or 2 quality songs. Theres a few sites you can subscribe to for so much a month and download as many as you want. Comes out to a few pennys a song if you calculate how much you download with high speed connection. Dont think anyone is getting hurt except the poor fool that walks through the door of a record store with his or hers hard earned wages. NO GUILTY FEELING HERE!!!!!

jrzofclay, you say that "Whenever you dl somthing, you're taking it off of someone, which isn't yours, so it is stealing". Let me ask you your opinion to these other questions which involves "taking something that isn't yours or doesn't belong to you." Even though we have different opinions, I'm interested in what your opinion is concerning these 3 questions. A True or False answer will be fine.

1. I buy a music CD and make a copy of it for my dad. Is my dad guilty of stealing?

2. I record a song off the radio in my car. Am I stealing?

3. I record a movie off of HBO or Showtime with my VCR. Am I stealing?

theoretically its NOT stealing cos when your downloading your suspecting your downloading non copyrighted stuff but then you "find out" its NOT.

so its NOT STEALING!!!