Bush takes responsibility for shortcomings...

...in the federal relief effort after hurricane Katrina.

Off with his head!! ;)

Should be the end of him politically, I think.

Yeah i saw this, something i found rather Bush like was the following:

-Bush praises the minster of preventing disasters (or something like that) two weeks ago.
-Hurricane Katrine hits US.
-That minister is fired.
-Bush takes full responsability.


Bush keeps his job yet he says the poor relief effort is his fault.

He did this yesterday didnt he?

I dont think it is the end of him though, it would have been if he hadnt as most people blame him anyway. Whether due to his attitude afterwards or the fact the cronies he appointed werent fit for the job, i think most put blame on him.

By doing this "im the man at the top, so its my fault" thing, he gathers in sympathy. Look at the wording he used. ;)

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Originally Posted by Peerzy

Yeah i saw this, something i found rather Bush like was the following:

-Bush praises the minster of preventing disasters (or something like that) two weeks ago.
-Hurricane Katrine hits US.
-That minister is fired.
-Bush takes full responsability.


Bush keeps his job yet he says the poor relief effort is his fault.

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He shouldn't lose his job for that and I actually commend him for taking responsibility. It's one thing I can jot down as being remotely redeemable. :dry:

He also didn't have much choice so it was CaptainObvious since he chose a person not qualified to head FEMA just 'cause of cronyism.

Either way I like when any President is humbled of their high horse.

edit: Rat get the hell outta my head. :ermm:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

[
He also didn't have much choice so it was CaptainObvious since he chose a person not qualified to head FEMA just 'cause of cronyism.

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Just so; other Presidents have not done this.

He should resign.

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Originally Posted by zapjb

He should resign.

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As should the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by zapjb

He should resign.

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As should the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana.

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I Agree, on the information that appears to be there, that all 3 should go.

I'm sure that further things will come out though, before any of them do.

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

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Originally Posted by j2k4

As should the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana.

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I Agree, on the information that appears to be there, that all 3 should go.

I'm sure that further things will come out though, before any of them do.

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You mean we shouldn't jump too quick?

It occurs to me a whimsically inclined Mother Nature could cause any number of persons in various positions of responsiblility to fall on their swords at the drop of a....natural disaster.

Any unanticipated event could suffice.

Given that politics is what it is, serving as a great brake on any expedient, the need for this mass public-servant-sacrifice should have been anticipated, if nothing else was.

I didnt say that.

I said none of them would, and other stuff will no doubt come out.

Bush should have been impeached in 2002/03, so he is well overdue :P

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

I didnt say that.

I said none of them would, and other stuff will no doubt come out.

Bush should have been impeached in 2002/03, so he is well overdue :P

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I agree, especially as one can now be impeached and stay in office. ;)

fucking hypocrit he is :snooty:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4243966.stm

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Busyman

He also didn't have much choice so it was CaptainObvious since he chose a person not qualified to head FEMA just 'cause of cronyism.

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Just so; other Presidents have not done this.

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What...took responsiblity for something everyone blamed them for or hired incompetant people? :huh:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Just so; other Presidents have not done this.

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What...took responsiblity for something everyone blamed them for or hired incompetant people? :huh:

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Engaged in cronyism.

Clinton didn't do this, did he?

The mayor of neworleans should become president
his eloquence revives the soul

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Originally Posted by 100%

The mayor of neworleans should become president
his eloquence revives the soul

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Roy Nagin?

Eloquence? :huh:

I'm adamant only g. w. bush should resign. Nobody can shake my belief that if this had happened in an affluent white republican area, that the Federal response would have been 10 fold what it was. Fn republicans, tearing apart the USA.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Busyman

What...took responsiblity for something everyone blamed them for or hired incompetant people? :huh:

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Engaged in cronyism.

Clinton didn't do this, did he?

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I'm quite sure he did.

It's blowing up in Bush's face though so CaptainObviously.

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Originally Posted by Busyman

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Engaged in cronyism.

Clinton didn't do this, did he?

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I'm quite sure he did.

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YOU'RE KIDDING!!!

You're just saying that because you're a....a....um... :huh:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

It occurs to me a whimsically inclined Mother Nature could cause any number of persons in various positions of responsiblility to fall on their swords at the drop of a....natural disaster.

Any unanticipated event could suffice.

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Your whimsical irony would be sooo much more effective if Katrina/New Orleans was in fact an "unanticipated event".
Since it was not, I fail to see your point.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Busyman

I'm quite sure he did.

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YOU'RE KIDDING!!!

You're just saying that because you're a....a....um... :huh:

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Exactly. ;)

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by j2k4

It occurs to me a whimsically inclined Mother Nature could cause any number of persons in various positions of responsiblility to fall on their swords at the drop of a....natural disaster.

Any unanticipated event could suffice.

---

Your whimsical irony would be sooo much more effective if Katrina/New Orleans was in fact an "unanticipated event".
Since it was not, I fail to see your point.

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Well then.

How's about an earthquake... let's say, epicentered in St. Louis, 9.0 Richter, shakes the shit out of Chicago, Lake Michigan boils, and the Mississippi's flow changes direction (again).

Not anticipated, insofar as it could not be forecast with any degree of timeliness at all.

Just think:

Two (maybe more) big-city mayors, two Governors (maybe more), millions of deaths (maybe more!), and a President into the bargain.

How would that be? ;)

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by clocker

Your whimsical irony would be sooo much more effective if Katrina/New Orleans was in fact an "unanticipated event".
Since it was not, I fail to see your point.

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Well then.

How's about an earthquake... let's say, epicentered in St. Louis, 9.0 Richter, shakes the shit out of Chicago, Lake Michigan boils, and the Mississippi's flow changes direction (again).

Not anticipated, insofar as it could not be forecast with any degree of timeliness at all.

Just think:

Two (maybe more) big-city mayors, two Governors (maybe more), millions of deaths (maybe more!), and a President into the bargain.

How would that be? ;)

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It would be

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Originally Posted by clocker

in fact an "unanticipated event".

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but we would still

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Originally Posted by clocker

fail to see your point.

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:ermm:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

It would be

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Originally Posted by clocker

in fact an "unanticipated event".

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but we would still

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Originally Posted by clocker

fail to see your point.

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:ermm:

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I'd ask Clocker, were I you; just to be sure.

I believe he said that Katrina was not an unanticipated event.

True enough.

I was merely going a bit further to provide him with one.

I'm down for a nap, now.

Have to work in the morning, you know?

making up a scenario from nothing so you can use it instead of the real scenario in your argument, smells

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Busyman

It would be

but we would still

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Originally Posted by clocker

fail to see your point.

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:ermm:

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I'd ask Clocker, were I you; just to be sure.

I believe he said that Katrina was not an unanticipated event.

True enough.

I was merely going a bit further to provide him with one.

I'm down for a nap, now.

Have to work in the morning, you know?

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Uh...er...uh...Katrina was not unanticipated....just like he said....so what what was your point again.....irregardless to both posts? :blink:

Before you go to sleep, don't forget to put a towel down and put on your maxi-pad. Mmk?

Sleep it off j2, sleep it off.

The buck always stops at the top. This doesn't just apply to Bush but any leader. This doesn't mean that he was directly at fault. I applaud Bush for this and hope he really means it. I don't expect anyone to be mistake free but I do expect Bush as our leader to do something about those mistakes.
Bush did not cause the hurricane even though his environmental policy leaves a lot to be desired. This said it is not the event that is the problem here, rather the reaction to the event. Bush is to blame for appointing the wrong people. He made a political choice when he needed a choice on ability.
There was incompetence at all levels. From the bottom up there were errors in judgement and bad planning. It is no excuse to say things were unexpected. FEMA stands for "Federal Emergency Management Agency" they are supposed to deal with the unexpected. Although by all accounts this event was on the list of possibilities.
9/11 was supposed to have woken us up. Apparently it didn't.

I could go on about this but it would just be a rant.

Individual citizens failed themselves. Some could have taken preventative action and chose not to...others were literally unable to, (these are the true victims)
The mayor of N.O. failed in many areas leading up to the event and now seems to be trying to make out that he was the only competent one about.
Gov. Blanco was indecisive and seemed to be more concerned about how her actions would affect her political career.
FEMA management failed to live up to reasonable expectations.

On the flip side we can be proud of those that did their jobs. The men and women on the ground. We saw true heroes in action even though they had inept management.

So Kev. I am not jumping on the "anti Bush" bandwagon here. For once what stands out is someone actually accepting accountability. For his part in choosing friends over talent Bush is to blame..... His acceptance of that blame is commendable, possibly the most commendable thing I have seen him do and I would expect it of any president.

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Originally Posted by Busyman

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Busyman

It would be

but we would still


:ermm:

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I'd ask Clocker, were I you; just to be sure.

I believe he said that Katrina was not an unanticipated event.

True enough.

I was merely going a bit further to provide him with one.

I'm down for a nap, now.

Have to work in the morning, you know?

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Uh...er...uh...Katrina was not unanticipated....just like he said....so what what was your point again.....irregardless to both posts? :blink:

Before you go to sleep, don't forget to put a towel down and put on your maxi-pad. Mmk?

Sleep it off j2, sleep it off.

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Follow me now, B.-

If there were an earthquake as I've described, I'm sure you could imagine events being even worse than I've painted them, and likewise the difficulty of addressing the damage easily as overwhelming as Katrina, but the prevailing school of thought here would demand that the self-righteous who go about demanding the heads of all those who have fallen short of their pie-in-the-sky expectations be placated almost before any aid is dispensed.

If a certain death-count stipulates a resignation, what would that number be, pray tell?

If massive suffering is the measuring-stick, how is that to be calibrated?

Do you know of any way to gauge what level of public outrage should be required to effect the removal of a critically-placed public official?

If the demanded resignations take place, who is then charged with timely replacement of these officials, given that, in this case, "timely" means "yesterday"?

Is it your view that a disruption of command authority is a small consideration?

There is here unanimous agreement that the handling of Katrina was, at least in the first few days, an unrelenting fiasco; and some heads currently intact will ultimately have to roll.

Who is qualified to fix a schedule for this?

Should we name a commission, a la 9/11 to study this?

Who shall appoint it?

Is there anyone without a rooting interest in the outcome of any such investigation?

Will the Duct Tape man be qualified to handle anything?

Wasn't he the one that thought Plastic Sheeting and Duct Tape would stop the consequences of a biological/chemical attack... and every American home should stock up on them? :unsure:

Ok... now i dont know how it all works, but David Paulison was in charge of "Emergency Preparedness"...

Does that mean the boss has resigned in favour of the guy that actually did the fuckup?

Im actually being serious in the question.. as I said, i dont know how FEMA is organised..

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Ok... now i dont know how it all works, but David Paulison was in charge of "Emergency Preparedness"...

Does that mean the boss has resigned in favour of the guy that actually did the fuckup?

Im actually being serious in the question.. as I said, i dont know how FEMA is organised..

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The problem was essentially a reluctance at local and state levels to face the true threat Katrina presented, combined with the two additional factors of incompetence at FEMA (Miller), and a belief on everyone's part that the duty of pulling the trigger on the whole operation belonged to the "other guy".

Paulison was not in that decision-making hierarchy, and so presumably bears no responsibility.

On the other hand, it could be argued that he works for Bush and is thus tainted...

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

I'd ask Clocker, were I you; just to be sure.

I believe he said that Katrina was not an unanticipated event.

True enough.

I was merely going a bit further to provide him with one.

I'm down for a nap, now.

Have to work in the morning, you know?

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Uh...er...uh...Katrina was not unanticipated....just like he said....so what what was your point again.....irregardless to both posts? :blink:

Before you go to sleep, don't forget to put a towel down and put on your maxi-pad. Mmk?

Sleep it off j2, sleep it off.

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Follow me now, B.-

If there were an earthquake as I've described, I'm sure you could imagine events being even worse than I've painted them, and likewise the difficulty of addressing the damage easily as overwhelming as Katrina, but the prevailing school of thought here would demand that the self-righteous who go about demanding the heads of all those who have fallen short of their pie-in-the-sky expectations be placated almost before any aid is dispensed.

If a certain death-count stipulates a resignation, what would that number be, pray tell?

If massive suffering is the measuring-stick, how is that to be calibrated?

Do you know of any way to gauge what level of public outrage should be required to effect the removal of a critically-placed public official?

If the demanded resignations take place, who is then charged with timely replacement of these officials, given that, in this case, "timely" means "yesterday"?

Is it your view that a disruption of command authority is a small consideration?

There is here unanimous agreement that the handling of Katrina was, at least in the first few days, an unrelenting fiasco; and some heads currently intact will ultimately have to roll.

Who is qualified to fix a schedule for this?

Should we name a commission, a la 9/11 to study this?

Who shall appoint it?

Is there anyone without a rooting interest in the outcome of any such investigation?

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There were fuck-ups before the storm. I'm talking aftermath. Plus you are barking up the wrong resignation tree....that's Rat.

In the aftermath, help seemed timed for Presidential arrival.

Please get off the earthquake doohicky 'cause clocker already adressed that.

We've had earthquakes before.

All in all I think.....I hope Bush gets his head outta his ass. "If your best friend ain't qualified for Emergency Management, get'im a job in oil."

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Originally Posted by Busyman

...you are barking up the wrong resignation tree....that's Rat.

Oh-sorry.

So you don't think he should resign?


Please get off the earthquake doohicky 'cause clocker already adressed that.

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No, he did not.

Sorry.

The following was not for Busyman after all, but for others.

Or so I've been told.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

If there were an earthquake as I've described, I'm sure you could imagine events being even worse than I've painted them, and likewise the difficulty of addressing the damage easily as overwhelming as Katrina, but the prevailing school of thought here would demand that the self-righteous who go about demanding the heads of all those who have fallen short of their pie-in-the-sky expectations be placated almost before any aid is dispensed.

If a certain death-count stipulates a resignation, what would that number be, pray tell?

If massive suffering is the measuring-stick, how is that to be calibrated?

Do you know of any way to gauge what level of public outrage should be required to effect the removal of a critically-placed public official?

If the demanded resignations take place, who is then charged with timely replacement of these officials, given that, in this case, "timely" means "yesterday"?

Is it your view that a disruption of command authority is a small consideration?

There is here unanimous agreement that the handling of Katrina was, at least in the first few days, an unrelenting fiasco; and some heads currently intact will ultimately have to roll.

Who is qualified to fix a schedule for this?

Should we name a commission, a la 9/11 to study this?

Who shall appoint it?

Is there anyone without a rooting interest in the outcome of any such investigation?

---

J2, if and when earthquake prediction becomes as obvious as the impending arrival of Katrina, your points may well be valid. However, as far as I am aware at the present time there are no reliable predictors which indicate when a devastating earthquake is going to occur.

Therefore, when one does occur it is hardly surprising that emergency preperations may not be in the correct place to deal with the aftermath.

WRT Hurricane Katrina, I live over 3000 miles away, I had a good idea of what was going to happen, it was in the news. People all over Europe had a good idea what was going to happen, it was in the news. People in China had a good idea what was going to happen, it was in the news. So how come the people at FEMA seem to have been unaware what was going to happen? From your comments we should probably assume they were gearing up for an earthquake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

The following was not for Busyman after all, but for others.

Or so I've been told.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

If there were an earthquake as I've described, I'm sure you could imagine events being even worse than I've painted them, and likewise the difficulty of addressing the damage easily as overwhelming as Katrina, but the prevailing school of thought here would demand that the self-righteous who go about demanding the heads of all those who have fallen short of their pie-in-the-sky expectations be placated almost before any aid is dispensed.
Which critics are withholding aid till resignations are accepted? A very nice political move (used well by both parties sadly)...claim that now is not the time for criticism, but to join together and help the victems, we'll look into it later.
Later, naturally the response will be "Why are you dragging up all this old dirt? It's politically motivated!"

If a certain death-count stipulates a resignation, what would that number be, pray tell?Irrelevant

If massive suffering is the measuring-stick, how is that to be calibrated?
As above
Do you know of any way to gauge what level of public outrage should be required to effect the removal of a critically-placed public official?

If the demanded resignations take place, who is then charged with timely replacement of these officials, given that, in this case, "timely" means "yesterday"?

Is it your view that a disruption of command authority is a small consideration?
A chain of command that malfunctions under live fire conditions is hardly worth preserving,is it?

There is here unanimous agreement that the handling of Katrina was, at least in the first few days, an unrelenting fiasco; and some heads currently intact will ultimately have to roll.

Who is qualified to fix a schedule for this?
I imagine that the person with the most to gain (i.e. Bush), would be the most enthusiastic to initiate any inquiry that satiates the public outrage.
Should we name a commission, a la 9/11 to study this?

Who shall appoint it?

Is there anyone without a rooting interest in the outcome of any such investigation?
No.
Why should there be?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by lynx

J2, if and when earthquake prediction becomes as obvious as the impending arrival of Katrina, your points may well be valid. However, as far as I am aware at the present time there are no reliable predictors which indicate when a devastating earthquake is going to occur.

Therefore, when one does occur it is hardly surprising that emergency preperations may not be in the correct place to deal with the aftermath.

WRT Hurricane Katrina, I live over 3000 miles away, I had a good idea of what was going to happen, it was in the news. People all over Europe had a good idea what was going to happen, it was in the news. People in China had a good idea what was going to happen, it was in the news. So how come the people at FEMA seem to have been unaware what was going to happen? From your comments we should probably assume they were gearing up for an earthquake.

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Well, lynx, I am very well aware that you are tone-deaf to any brand of sarcasm apart from your own; I am loathe to explain it to you.

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Originally Posted by clocker

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Originally Posted by j2k4

The following was not for Busyman after all, but for others.

Or so I've been told.

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So-

Should he resign?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

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Originally Posted by Busyman

...you are barking up the wrong resignation tree....that's Rat.

Oh-sorry.

So you don't think he should resign?


Please get off the earthquake doohicky 'cause clocker already adressed that.

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No, he did not.

Sorry.

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Yeah he did...as irrelevance.

lynx done the same.