I think the conditions in the world right now are favourable to a major war...

I sense some really foul vibes in the air, seems to me that everywhere I look in the city where I live people are pissed off and unhappy. Within the past month or so in my city there has been a series of unprovoked random shootings with no apparent motivation. Basically, a person or persons riding around in a car and targeting people at random and shooting them. This is in addition to a guy who is wanted for a string of rapes, still hasn't been found. Yes, these things are local, but look at North Korea, Israel, Taiwan, Lebanon, the cashmir situation, these problems are getting worse. If Lebanon and Syria both joined in a full scale war with Israel, it would probably draw other nations in. I even heard a report on a radio talk show that said there was a chance some enemy groups have managed to smuggle some small scale nuclear devices across the mexican border for what osama thinks of as "American Hiroshima", taking out 3 or 4 major american cities simultaneously. The effect would be crippling, I can't imagine the chaos.

I have been reading the board a little here and there, but I'm on a public connection so I don't have much time if this has been posted elsewhere i apoligize.

We do have some hotspots, indeed we do.

We're far from the brink, however.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MediaSlayer

if this has been posted elsewhere i apoligize

---

I very much doubt it has.

Sure, there are bad situations in the world, there always are - but there is also bright sides, if you care to look.

For example, the biggest sporting event in the world has just gone off without a (terrorist) hitch - which is something that harbingers of doom such as yourself never thought possible :)

i was born a pessimist don't pick on me :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by manker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MediaSlayer

if this has been posted elsewhere i apoligize

---

I very much doubt it has.

Sure, there are bad situations in the world, there always are - but there is also bright sides, if you care to look.

For example, the biggest sporting event in the world has just gone off without a (terrorist) hitch - which is something that harbingers of doom such as yourself never thought possible :)

---

Unfortunatly the good news does not make a story ... so rarely gets reported. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by manker

I very much doubt it has.

Sure, there are bad situations in the world, there always are - but there is also bright sides, if you care to look.

For example, the biggest sporting event in the world has just gone off without a (terrorist) hitch - which is something that harbingers of doom such as yourself never thought possible :)

---

Unfortunatly the good news does not make a story ... so rarely gets reported. :(

---

Indeed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MediaSlayer

I sense some really foul vibes in the air, seems to me that everywhere I look in the city where I live people are pissed off and unhappy. Within the past month or so in my city there has been a series of unprovoked random shootings with no apparent motivation. Basically, a person or persons riding around in a car and targeting people at random and shooting them. This is in addition to a guy who is wanted for a string of rapes, still hasn't been found. Yes, these things are local, but look at North Korea, Israel, Taiwan, Lebanon, the cashmir situation, these problems are getting worse. If Lebanon and Syria both joined in a full scale war with Israel, it would probably draw other nations in. I even heard a report on a radio talk show that said there was a chance some enemy groups have managed to smuggle some small scale nuclear devices across the mexican border for what osama thinks of as "American Hiroshima", taking out 3 or 4 major american cities simultaneously. The effect would be crippling, I can't imagine the chaos.

I have been reading the board a little here and there, but I'm on a public connection so I don't have much time if this has been posted elsewhere i apoligize.

---

I agree, in fact I think we've already started..

A higher demand for resources and less resources available to fulfill that demand... thats one of the main reasons for any war, be it due to population pressure, in order to pull out of economic recession, or try and keep an economy running.

The other main reason is Religion.

It appears, on the face of it, that both these reasons appear to be converging at the moment.

As the Oil Peak has now passed, and just about every Developed Nation now has an Oil Based economy and with the Developing Nations gaining Oil Based Economies... there just wont be the Oil Available to fulfill the demand within just a few short years. 2/3 of the known untapped reserves are within the area of the OPEC countries.

These countries are all Islamic. The fundamentalists point to the interferance within the Region, together with the Israel/Palestine problem, and declare that its all an attack against Islam and start bombing the hell out of everyone.

This has actually brought about the very thing it wasn't to start with, as Muslims in just about every other countries are now looked upon with suspicion by the authorities and public and there's been an increase of "Race Hate" attacks upon them. ie: The Religious element is now in place too.

The "War" started with the invasion of Afganistan (a 1500 mile pipeline going through the country was the 1st thing agreed after the fall of the Taliban, something they'd refused to do, signing this agreement took priority over "democratic Governance"), although some look at Iraq as the start of the conflict. The Iraq invasion was sparked, in part, by their decision to sell Oil in Euro's.. damaging the Economic Interests of the US. (Notice again, selling Iraq's Oil in Dollars again took priority over rebuilding that Nation or Introducing Democracy).

Iran could well be next, as its the 2nd Largest OPEC producer.

If they decide to withhold Oil in retaliation if Israel attacks Syria on a large scale, continue with their Uranium Enrichment program, or decide to sell Oil in Euro's.. then the US will invade, its as simple as that.

The Uranium Enrichment Program excuse is ironic, as Iran is a member of the non-proliferation treaty and allows inspections of its Nuclear Facilities... something that Israel isnt and doesnt. This fact wont be missed by the Fundamentalists...



However an argument could also point out that the entire "Cold War" was actually fought between the US and USSR through proxy countries, and that there is a war of some sort being fought every day somewhere.....

......so I'm assuming you are only referring to direct Military Action on a large scale by "developed" countries..

a world war when the internets exist would just be wierd

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rat Faced

......so I'm assuming you are only referring to direct Military Action on a large scale by "developed" countries..

---

This should clear things up a bit-

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's Hizbollah, which claims links to the Lebanese group of the same name, said on Tuesday it stood ready to attack Israeli and U.S. interests worldwide.

ADVERTISEMENT

"We have 2,000 volunteers who have registered since last year," said Iranian Hizbollah's spokesman Mojtaba Bigdeli, speaking by telephone from the central seminary city of Qom.

"They have been trained and they can become fully armed. We are ready to dispatch them to every corner of the world to jeopardise Israel and America's interests. We are only waiting for the Supreme Leader's green light to take action. If America wants to ignite World War Three ... we welcome it," he said.

kewl.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MediaSlayer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rat Faced

......so I'm assuming you are only referring to direct Military Action on a large scale by "developed" countries..

---

This should clear things up a bit-

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's Hizbollah, which claims links to the Lebanese group of the same name, said on Tuesday it stood ready to attack Israeli and U.S. interests worldwide.

ADVERTISEMENT

"We have 2,000 volunteers who have registered since last year," said Iranian Hizbollah's spokesman Mojtaba Bigdeli, speaking by telephone from the central seminary city of Qom.

"They have been trained and they can become fully armed. We are ready to dispatch them to every corner of the world to jeopardise Israel and America's interests. We are only waiting for the Supreme Leader's green light to take action. If America wants to ignite World War Three ... we welcome it," he said.

---

Well, now.

Iran had previously denied any involvement.

The case cannot be made that the Iranian government is a pawn to Hezbollah as Lebanen's is.

The veil is lifted...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by j2k4

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MediaSlayer

This should clear things up a bit-

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran's Hizbollah, which claims links to the Lebanese group of the same name, said on Tuesday it stood ready to attack Israeli and U.S. interests worldwide.

ADVERTISEMENT

"We have 2,000 volunteers who have registered since last year," said Iranian Hizbollah's spokesman Mojtaba Bigdeli, speaking by telephone from the central seminary city of Qom.

"They have been trained and they can become fully armed. We are ready to dispatch them to every corner of the world to jeopardise Israel and America's interests. We are only waiting for the Supreme Leader's green light to take action. If America wants to ignite World War Three ... we welcome it," he said.

---

Well, now.

Iran had previously denied any involvement.

The case cannot be made that the Iranian government is a pawn to Hezbollah as Lebanen's is.

The veil is lifted...

---

Is there any point in highlighting the fact that it was Iran's Hezzbollah which acknowledged the link (not that there has ever been any doubt), not the Iranian government.

Did you miss that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lynx

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by j2k4

Well, now.

Iran had previously denied any involvement.

The case cannot be made that the Iranian government is a pawn to Hezbollah as Lebanen's is.

The veil is lifted...

---

Is there any point in highlighting the fact that it was Iran's Hezzbollah which acknowledged the link (not that there has ever been any doubt), not the Iranian government.

Did you miss that?

---

Is there any point highlighting the fact Hezbollah has cowed the Lebanese government, but the same cannot be said to be true of the Irani government, which does not disavow Iranian Hezbollah commentary, and, in fact, agrees with it, however tacitly?

Or did you miss that?

Please people,

no country is squeaky clean here..

or do i have to remind everyone of the Bay of Pigs, Guatamala, Argentina, Cambodia etc (for USA lot).. Iraq, India, Burma etc (for UK lot).. Continent of Africa etc (most of mainland Europe lot)..

There is no proof re: Iran being responsible.

and people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones...

Fact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Please people,

no country is squeaky clean here..

or do i have to remind everyone of the Bay of Pigs, Guatamala, Argentina, Cambodia etc (for USA lot).. Iraq, India, Burma etc (for UK lot).. Continent of Africa etc (most of mainland Europe lot)..

There is no proof re: Iran being responsible.

and people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones...

Fact.

---

Indeed, they should not even discuss such things. :whistling

I wish I could suss your point, Rat, but I cannot.

Insofar as this thread was a hair's breadth from a shit-storm, I'll bow out, if that's okay.

The point was that in most cases people "knew", but the countries denied it.

We can speculate all we want, as we did at the time re: Iraq Invasion.

Some thought there were weapons, some didnt (and thought so strongly on both sides of that fence I recall).. we didnt know until after the fact.


The Topic is regarding the conditions for a Major War.

That means lots of nations/cultures acting and reacting in manners that may bring about a major conflict... you cannot blame one or two specifics here, its a culmanation of lots of stuff... including our own past baggage.

Remember, to most of us it is the past and easily forgotten.. but we were far removed from the actual results on the ground. In these places people got killed that had friends and family that may then hate the country(ies) responsible on emotional grounds.... a lot less predictable than economical/logical grounds. These people have children, guess who teaches them during their formative years?

If you bring Hiz'bollah and Iran into the equation, then you must also bring the history of both in too..

Why does Iran hate the USA? Think back a little... Then think about whats happening at present, which makes it hard to put history behind it.

Why was Hiz'bollah (Shi'ite), who have little in common with Hamas (Sunni), formed? Again, think back a little...

Just across the way in Iraq, these two factions are blowing the crap out of each other..... they did in Lebanon in the past, and they still do when they come across each other now.... so it isnt an alliance, which is what some Israeli's and Americans are saying it is.

Then look also at the fact that the Lebanese Army has now been mobilised, because Israel looks like it will be a invading by land... they did squat except complain and die during the air assault, however the Lebanese Constitution means they must now do what they didnt want to do.. fight Israel to defend their country.

ie: An active state of War will exist between Lebanon and Israel (I think they are still formally at war anyway)... and this was encouraged by the USA and UK.

What message is that sending out to every other muslim country in the world?

How many young Muslims are going to be pissed off enough to be radicalized?

How is all this affecting the way many Cultures/Countries en-mass Act and React with each other...

I think that reducing this thread to a specific conflict and apportioning blame is actually reducing the value of the thread...

It seems Lebanon didn't do enough to stop Hezbollah from slamming rockets into Israel.

What was Israel supposed to do?

If rockets from the USA came raining down on China, would would China do?

Maybe muslims should blame some of their own instead of becoming radicalized sheep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman™

It seems Lebanon didn't do enough to stop Hezbollah from slamming rockets into Israel.

What was Israel supposed to do?

If rockets from the USA came raining down on China, would would China do?

Maybe muslims should blame some of their own instead of becoming radicalized sheep.

---

I will re-enter the thread only to record a short but forceful huzzah! in support of the sentiment elucidated here.

Strange...

Iraq has been liberated how long?

Yet the USA/UK say it cannot yet secure itself from its own elements, despite huge resources from the Coalition training their Armed Forces and Police.

Lebanon has been free a much shorter time from Syria, and has had didly squat in terms of help to train and supply an Army.... and yet the same countries think that they should be able to sort out Hezbollah, a much more organised and better armed organisation than the Iraqi insurgents..


The word Hypocracy springs to mind..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Strange...

Iraq has been liberated how long?

Yet the USA/UK say it cannot yet secure itself from its own elements, despite huge resources from the Coalition training their Armed Forces and Police.

Lebanon has been free a much shorter time from Syria, and has had didly squat in terms of help to train and supply an Army.... and yet the same countries think that they should be able to sort out Hezbollah, a much more organised and better armed organisation than the Iraqi insurgents..


The word Hypocracy springs to mind..

---

Uhh it's not that.

1. Rockets come from Lebanon.

2. Lebanon could be in cahoots with Hezbollah or not however...

3. What is Israel supposed to do, sit back and wait for more rockets to come?
If Lebanon cannot sort it then Israel has to. It's not really a choice.
tralalalalalala and his family are just supposed to sit and wait for a rocket to hit their home. I think not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Busyman™

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Strange...

Iraq has been liberated how long?

Yet the USA/UK say it cannot yet secure itself from its own elements, despite huge resources from the Coalition training their Armed Forces and Police.

Lebanon has been free a much shorter time from Syria, and has had didly squat in terms of help to train and supply an Army.... and yet the same countries think that they should be able to sort out Hezbollah, a much more organised and better armed organisation than the Iraqi insurgents..


The word Hypocracy springs to mind..

---

Uhh it's not that.

1. Rockets come from Lebanon.

2. Lebanon could be in cahoots with Hezbollah or not however...

3. What is Israel supposed to do, sit back and wait for more rockets to come?
If Lebanon cannot sort it then Israel has to. It's not really a choice.
tralalalalalala and his family are just supposed to sit and wait for a rocket to hit their home. I think not.

---

You neglect to observe that Israel is dismantling the infrastructure of Lebanon rather than just attacking the rocket positions, affecting any opportunity that the Lebanese government may have in the future of getting control of the whole country.

The intention is to provoke Syria and Iran, and if they respond you don't need a crystal ball to figure what would happen next.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lynx

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman™

Uhh it's not that.

1. Rockets come from Lebanon.

2. Lebanon could be in cahoots with Hezbollah or not however...

3. What is Israel supposed to do, sit back and wait for more rockets to come?
If Lebanon cannot sort it then Israel has to. It's not really a choice.
tralalalalalala and his family are just supposed to sit and wait for a rocket to hit their home. I think not.

---

You neglect to observe that Israel is dismantling the infrastructure of Lebanon rather than just attacking the rocket positions, affecting any opportunity that the Lebanese government may have in the future of getting control of the whole country.

The intention is to provoke Syria and Iran, and if they respond you don't need a crystal ball to figure what would happen next.

---

Oh right they are defending themselves the wrong way.

"Just attack the rocket positions and be on our way. That'll solve everything."

There will just be new rocket positions.:ermm:

You also neglect the possibility of #2.

I dont think anyone has said that Israel shouldnt defend itself..

However, as you pointed out... they are using Rockets.

The thing about Rockets is that the firing location can be found within seconds of the launch due to Ballistic Radar.

They are close to the Israeli Border... not in an International Airport, nor Tripoli, nor the Field Hospitals etc etc... in fact, apart from their HQ in Beirute, there are few Shi'ite Muslims more than 30-50 miles from the Israeli Border, never mind Hezbollah... That entire ethinic grouping is concentrated in the South.

Then there is the fact they have destroyed the infrastrucure heading North, including all Gas Stations and Services, Bridges etc... THEN told the population to move north... along the Highways they're been bombing.

Lets get this into perspective.. 10 times as many innocent Lebonese as Israeli's killed.. AND 500,000 displaced and a whole countrie's infrastructure totalled. A country, the Government of which condemned the attacks when they started... and the population of which now is on Hezbollahs side due to the Israeli actions.

A country that the USA were routing for just a couple of weeks ago too...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rat Faced

I dont think anyone has said that Israel shouldnt defend itself..

However, as you pointed out... they are using Rockets.

The thing about Rockets is that the firing location can be found within seconds of the launch due to Ballistic Radar.

They are close to the Israeli Border... not in an International Airport, nor Tripoli, nor the Field Hospitals etc etc... in fact, apart from their HQ in Beirute, there are few Shi'ite Muslims more than 30-50 miles from the Israeli Border, never mind Hezbollah... That entire ethinic grouping is concentrated in the South.

Then there is the fact they have destroyed the infrastrucure heading North, including all Gas Stations and Services, Bridges etc... THEN told the population to move north... along the Highways they're been bombing.

Lets get this into perspective.. 10 times as many innocent Lebonese as Israeli's killed.. AND 500,000 displaced and a whole countrie's infrastructure totalled. A country, the Government of which condemned the attacks when they started... and the population of which now is on Hezbollahs side due to the Israeli actions.

A country that the USA were routing for just a couple of weeks ago too...

---

You do know rocket positions change, right?

You do know that many governments sanction while condemning attacks, right?

It's quite possible the Lebanese government knows where the rocket positions are then too, right?

So you are saying that maybe Israel should tone down their innocent casualty rate to match their own?

I do not advocate the overkill in the least. However, at some point, muslims, instead of radicalizing, need to do something radical like checking their own.
All I hear is crap like "I don't feel we should apologize for the actions of others" while at the same time......"I will now join in the fight for my muslim brothers against persecution."

:ermm:

Maybe all the muslims of any strength over there are bad and/or weak-minded. Loike 75-25 loike.

Let's see, there were 8 Canadians killed by Israel.

So how come I haven't heard the same people who are saying Israel's tactics are right calling on Canada to launch an attack on Israel and kill about 80 Israelis?

After all, that can't be an escalation, it's just following the same principles. Or do principles only work one way?

Lebenon is a Country of many ethnic groupings..

Hezbollah are Shi'ite muslims...which is why they are supported by Iran generally... that whole ethnic grouping makes up about 14% of the population.

So please explain why they are also bombing the crap out of the Christians?

Or the Muslim factions that, until now, didnt support Hezbollah? In fact they were, until fairly recently, fighting them.

Or the 200,000 Kurds? Kurds... you remember, they are the USA's allies?

Hezbollah, remember supports and is supported by Syria.... and the rest of the population just recently finally managed to kick Syria out.

They were not even close to representing the majority of Lebonese public opinion until Israel started the wholescale slaughter.


As I said earlier, a very factionalised and diverse country is now coming together properly... in the face of a common enemy that attacked them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Lebenon is a Country of many ethnic groupings..

Hezbollah are Shi'ite muslims...which is why they are supported by Iran generally... that whole ethnic grouping makes up about 14% of the population.

So please explain why they are also bombing the crap out of the Christians?

Or the Muslim factions that, until now, didnt support Hezbollah? In fact they were, until fairly recently, fighting them.

Or the 200,000 Kurds? Kurds... you remember, they are the USA's allies?

Hezbollah, remember supports and is supported by Syria.... and the rest of the population just recently finally managed to kick Syria out.

They were not even close to representing the majority of Lebonese public opinion until Israel started the wholescale slaughter.


As I said earlier, a very factionalised and diverse country is now coming together properly... in the face of a common enemy that attacked them.

---

How then isn't Lebanon taking care Hezbollah in their own country?

Hezbollah seems to be such a minority there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lynx

Let's see, there were 8 Canadians killed by Israel.

So how come I haven't heard the same people who are saying Israel's tactics are right calling on Canada to launch an attack on Israel and kill about 80 Israelis?

After all, that can't be an escalation, it's just following the same principles. Or do principles only work one way?

---

Who said Israel's tactics were right?

I'm saying simply allowing rockets to reain down on Israel ad nauseam doesn't cut it and a simple decree from Lebanon saying "we don't like it" doesn't cut it either.

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showp...6&postcount=18

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showp...7&postcount=35

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showp...5&postcount=37

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman™

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lynx

Let's see, there were 8 Canadians killed by Israel.

So how come I haven't heard the same people who are saying Israel's tactics are right calling on Canada to launch an attack on Israel and kill about 80 Israelis?

After all, that can't be an escalation, it's just following the same principles. Or do principles only work one way?

---

Who said Israel's tactics were right?

I'm saying simply allowing rockets to reain down on Israel ad nauseam doesn't cut it and a simple decree from Lebanon saying "we don't like it" doesn't cut it either.

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showp...6&postcount=18

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showp...7&postcount=35

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showp...5&postcount=37

---

I'm simply pointing out that your justification of the large scale bombing of Lebanon is unreasonable.

If that were correct, then during the IRA bombing campaign abainst England, we would have been justified in flattening Dublin, after all they'd had a stable government for a long time. Somehow I don't think you would have been backing us in those circumstances. :dry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman™

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Lebenon is a Country of many ethnic groupings..

Hezbollah are Shi'ite muslims...which is why they are supported by Iran generally... that whole ethnic grouping makes up about 14% of the population.

So please explain why they are also bombing the crap out of the Christians?

Or the Muslim factions that, until now, didnt support Hezbollah? In fact they were, until fairly recently, fighting them.

Or the 200,000 Kurds? Kurds... you remember, they are the USA's allies?

Hezbollah, remember supports and is supported by Syria.... and the rest of the population just recently finally managed to kick Syria out.

They were not even close to representing the majority of Lebonese public opinion until Israel started the wholescale slaughter.


As I said earlier, a very factionalised and diverse country is now coming together properly... in the face of a common enemy that attacked them.

---

How then isn't Lebanon taking care Hezbollah in their own country?

Hezbollah seems to be such a minority there.

---

As said earlier, they have only just got rid of Syria and dont have a fully trained or equiped professional Army yet.

So... how are they supposed to get rid of Hezbollah?

This organisation may only be a militia, but it is better funded, equiped and trained than Lebanons Army is atm..

Further, the Lebonese Armies size is controlled through a strict ratio of personnel from the different factions and religions.. ie: If the there are few shi'ites joining up then with all of the will in the world, the Army cant legally increase in size to "fill the gap". Its the smallest and most ill equiped Army in the entire Middle East.

Implying that by Bombing Lebanon they are just bombing Muslims that are being radicalized was totally incorrect tho... there are more Christians in Lebanon than there are Shi'ite's (Hezbollah's faction).

What has occured is that they now have an entire country that hates their guts (rather than the dislike that was there before)... instead of 14% of the population of that country.

Instead of support for Hezbollahs campaign coming from only Shi'ite countries such as Iran... they will now have to contend with support going to all the Lebanese factions, from many more countries.

This includes Orthodox Christian Countries/Organisations... not just Islamic ones.

The Christians have often received their support through Germany, Belgium and France to name a few.. ie: European and "Christian" Orgainisations may support them (even if unofficially)

The Sunni factions may get their support from the likes of Libya and Iraq, and also from "mainstream" Islamic countries as the Sunni is a mainstream secular faction (ie: Sunni's don't threaten the status quo of Islamic Countries as they are not Fundamentalist)

The Druze may get support from Russia/China etc where they have always had close ties.


So, you see... its possibly a much greater escalation than it looks like on the surface.

Israel is taking a big risk (and they know it), and frankly (in my opinion) they deserve it if it all goes tits up for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lynx

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman™

Who said Israel's tactics were right?

I'm saying simply allowing rockets to reain down on Israel ad nauseam doesn't cut it and a simple decree from Lebanon saying "we don't like it" doesn't cut it either.

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showp...6&postcount=18

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showp...7&postcount=35

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/showp...5&postcount=37

---

I'm simply pointing out that your justification of the large scale bombing of Lebanon is unreasonable.

---

...at the same time they can't just sit back and do diddly....

Busyman, lets put it this way...

The fans of most Soccer Teams in the UK premiership have a better chance at getting rid of Hezbollah than the Lebonese Government.

Hell... some of New Yorks street gangs are larger and better equiped than this Army.

I was at my friends cottage all weekend. His girlfriend called my phone at 2AM to inform us that a party behind her house had resulted in 12 gunshots being fired. This is quite scarry considering the school I go to is right across the street, and I walk down one street over from where it happened to go get lunch every day.

And yes..my friends girlfriend is a whiny bitch, who calls us at 2AM to inform us about something that does not affect us..when we are about 2 hours away from her house.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lynx

Let's see, there were 8 Canadians killed by Israel.

So how come I haven't heard the same people who are saying Israel's tactics are right calling on Canada to launch an attack on Israel and kill about 80 Israelis?

After all, that can't be an escalation, it's just following the same principles. Or do principles only work one way?

---

Oh and to quote you again....

Make it that Israel attacked Canada and then I'd somewhat see your point.

Let's try to do an apples-to-apples comparison.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Smith

I was at my friends cottage all weekend. His girlfriend called my phone at 2AM to inform us that a party behind her house had resulted in 12 gunshots being fired. This is quite scarry considering the school I go to is right across the street, and I walk down one street over from where it happened to go get lunch every day.

And yes..my friends girlfriend is a whiny bitch, who calls us at 2AM to inform us about something that does not affect us..when we are about 2 hours away from her house.

---

The fook?:blink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lynx

Let's see, there were 8 Canadians killed by Israel.

So how come I haven't heard the same people who are saying Israel's tactics are right calling on Canada to launch an attack on Israel and kill about 80 Israelis?

After all, that can't be an escalation, it's just following the same principles. Or do principles only work one way?

---

Oh and to quote you again....

Make it that Israel attacked Canada and then I'd somewhat see your point.

Let's try to do an apples-to-apples comparison.

---

Apples for Apples you said...

Lebanon didn't attack Israel either.


Israeli's were killed due to an attack based in Lebonese Territory... they attack Lebonon.

Canadians have been killed due to an attack based in Israeli Territory.... the difference?

In both cases, the Government and majority of the people in the base country were not trying to kill those that were killed.

At least the Canadians can hit the whole of Israel and say they are hitting the people that support the aggressor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman

Oh and to quote you again....

Make it that Israel attacked Canada and then I'd somewhat see your point.

Let's try to do an apples-to-apples comparison.

---

Apples for Apples you said...

Lebanon didn't attack Israel either.

---

Where'd the rockets come from?

Where did the Jets that killed the Canadians come from?


ALTERNATIVE ANSWER:

Syria.. where did the missiles that killed the Canadians come from?

Maybe thats the answer.. Israel attack Syria and Canada attack the USA.. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Where did the Jets that killed the Canadians come from?


ALTERNATIVE ANSWER:

Syria.. where did the missiles that killed the Canadians come from?

Maybe thats the answer.. Israel attack Syria and Canada attack the USA.. :rolleyes:

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So where did the rockets come from again?

"Answer the question, Clarice."

Then of course, there is the wider ramifications of this policy, that the USA will be directly involved in....

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WASHINGTON, DC, United States (UPI) -- That which Americans should fear has come upon them: U.S. troops in Iraq killed 15 Shiite militiamen Saturday.

According to first reports, the fighting occurred in the town of Musayyib, 40 miles south of Baghdad. The exchange was an intense one. It lasted three hours and dozens more people were injured.

The clash was not a random one. It was part of a systematic drive U.S. forces had been ordered to carry out against the Mahdi Army of anti-American firebrand Moqtada al-Sadr.

This clash was the most serious since the brief and potentially very dangeorus rising by Sadr`s militia against U.S. forces in April 2004. It came after popular Shiite opinion across Iraq has been inflamed against the United States by the continuing failure of U.S. forces to protect Shiite communities in the country from the continuing onslaught of Sunni insurgents. Also, it comes as Israel`s attacks on the Shiite militias of southern Lebanon are escalating towards a full-scale land invasion of Hezbollah-controlled territory.

The danger is therefore more imminent than ever that the U.S. drive against Sadr`s forces could trigger a more widespread rising of Shiite militias in Baghdad and across southern Iraq against U.S. forces. The already chaotic situation in Iraq would then become indescribable.

We make this prediction in these columns the same way we confidently -- and grimly -- predicted on May 1, 2003, that the Sunni population of Iraq would be enraged by the killing of 15 of their number in clashes with U.S. troops in the city of Fallujah, and that this would lead to a years-long widespread Sunni insurgency against U.S. forces in their country.

On that day -- the same day President George W. Bush confidently but erroneously declared 'Mission Accomplished ' in Iraq from the deck of the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln -- UPI Analysis predicted: 'The killing of 15 anti-American demonstrators by U.S. troops in the Iraqi city of Fallujah this week, followed by the reported killing of at least two more Wednesday, is a dire omen for those who imagined Iraq could be quietly but firmly guided on the paths of stable, pro-American democracy in the next few months, or even years.

'It is, rather, the kind of event that Thomas Jefferson called `a fire-bell in the night` -- the harbinger of infinitely worse conflict and travails to come.'

We noted then in UPI Analysis, 'In its scale and likely repercussions, the Fallujah Massacre -- as it will soon clearly be known -- appears remarkably similar to the killing of 13 Northern Irish Catholics by the British army during fierce demonstrations in the city of Londonderry -- a provincial center comparable to Fallujah -- on what became known as `Bloody Sunday` on Jan. 30, 1972.

'That event, more than anything else, proved a windfall for the rapidly mobilizing paramilitary Provisional Irish Republican Army, at the time known popularly as the 'Provos.' And over the next few years, it launched a campaign of urban terror and bomb massacres that in its calculated efforts to kill and maim civilians was without parallel in Europe during the 46 years from the end of World War II to the beginning of the wars in the former Yugoslavia in 1991.

'It will be surprising if we do not see the same thing in Iraq in the coming months, and possibly even in the next few weeks.

'In fact, what happened in Fallujah and what is now likely to happen throughout Iraq is no more or less than a reversion to the traditional patterns of the 40 years of history that the Iraqi people previously spent under the control -- first direct then indirect -- of a major Western power determined to `educate` them into Western practices of democracy.'

Sure enough, Fallujah became one of the most ferocious centers of the Sunni insurgency in Iraq. It was repeatedly fought over by U.S. forces and militias in bitter, house-to-house battles reminiscent of Stalingrad, Budapest and Berlin in World War II.

And in the three years and nearly three months since Bush pronounced his famous 'Mission Accomplished' comment, more than 2,200 American soldiers have been killed serving in Iraq, more than seven times the number who had died when that statement was made.

Now, however, the destructive potential of a widespread Shiite uprising in Iraq is vastly worse than the Sunni threat was three-and-a-quarter years ago.

The Shiite population of Iraq is more than three times that of the Sunni community. It is greater by 10 million people. The Shiites control all of southern Iraq, including the U.S. Army`s crucial land supply route from Kuwait to Baghdad.

The Sunni militias in May 2003 needed a period of organization and recruiting before they could present a serious widespread threat to U.S. forces. As we have monitored in our companion 'UPI Iraq Benchmarks' column, this escalation gradually occurred over the following two-and-a-half years.

But the Shiite militias across Iraq are already organized and networked together. They have far more support, certainly financial and probably in terms of arms supply, than the Sunni insurgents ever did and there are potentially far more of them. Also, they enjoy potential support and, at the very least, protection and toleration, from the Shiite-controlled new Iraqi army and police force that U.S. policymakers have built up at a frantic speed to fight the Sunni insurgents. But the price of that rapid build-up was the failure to establish any effective American controls over the new forces that could easily turn against their American creators.

Bush administration and Pentagon policymakers never dreamed the Sunni insurgency would get as bad as it did. A widespread Shiite militia rising against U.S. forces will be infinitely more dangerous. But no one in Washington appears to realize that either.

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