If you run another Clinton, we'll run another Bush :whistling
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If you run another Clinton, we'll run another Bush :whistling
I've seen this Bush of which you speak, he's avioding answering questions already. But then we should know better than to be so anti american that we question him :rolleyes:
I have to say it's a hell of an improvement on the present Bush :shifty:
whos the leader of the democrats btw, and how come I never hear anything coming from him?
Harry Reid is the DML.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilw
He's not so much the spotlight whore as some other politicians, to answer the latter.
Guys, it's only October 2006
could you wait atleast a few (like 10) months before you begin again?
The Clintons are still calling the shots; they are still considered the leading lights of the Democrat party.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilw
Oh gosh, j2 is the leader of spin on this board.
You really can't take much he says at face value.:dry:
As far as Bill Clinton, people just remember how good it was during his 8 years compared to the current shit we are in.
Shirley you're kidding. :dabs:Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Well here's something for you, pal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Value, "face" or otherwise, is in the eye of the beholder, and if you ever prove otherwise, I'll go to Oslo myself, swipe a fuckin' Nobel prize, and present it to you on bended knee.
As if...
As for spin, that last was a superlative example of same, liberal specie.
I commend you, therefore, on the immensity of your testicles merely for typing it-it must be terribly difficult for you to drag those fucking things around, not to mention your tremendous johnson.
I'm guessing your tremendous political (v)acuity is due to your rather unfortunate proximity to the gravitional influence of our Nation's Capital.
If you desire that this post be translated, deciphered, simplified, or otherwise dumbed-down for your personal consumption, I'm sure that TempestV fellow can help. ;)
Regards-
Ahh I see you left off the rest of the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizoShirley you're kidding. :dabs:Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Good man.
I remember a guy that worked in my office that seemed like he wanted kill himself when Clinton was elected for Bush.
Now we have one of the most backward Presidents in history but I'm sure a Republican congress will later smear his monikered feces all over our landmarks and airports as they did with Reagan.
I'd like you to tell me the downs of the Clinton years compared to the ups of the GW years.
I dare ya.
No need, moneygrip.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4Well here's something for you, pal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Value, "face" or otherwise, is in the eye of the beholder, and if you ever prove otherwise, I'll go to Oslo myself, swipe a fuckin' Nobel prize, and present it to you on bended knee.
As if...
As for spin, that last was a superlative example of same, liberal specie.
I commend you, therefore, on the immensity of your testicles merely for typing it-it must be terribly difficult for you to drag those fucking things around, not to mention your tremendous johnson.
I'm guessing your tremendous political (v)acuity is due to your rather unfortunate proximity to the gravitional influence of our Nation's Capital.
If you desire that this post be translated, deciphered, simplified, or otherwise dumbed-down for your personal consumption, I'm sure that TempestV fellow can help. ;)
Regards-
Thanks for the complement. I get my dose of this and that working around media, government buildings, and the occasional soldier or two. I also remember how it was said that Clinton was weak on the military and moral was low. I wonder what the military says now (while not on camera).
As far as eye of the beholder, that goes without saying.
I mean I challenge anyone to tell me how they feel the GW years better the Clinton years....
....since it's the eye of the beholder an' all.:smilie4:
I think the Repubs made a stinkie of a dick suck to have something to point out.....much like the Dems are doing with the Foley scandal.
Clinton was impeached - beat that.
So if the democratic party takes both houses and actually get the checks and balances system returned, and it is found that Bush acted against the constitution and impeach him, can we say that clinton's impeachment (which failed) is cancelled out?
Sure. Send me a PM when it's complete.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5...esscardah0.gif
My kids all got one of these in the mail the other day........each one was already maxed out..........:dry:
...and acquitted by the Senate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
That affected the country how now....except to say "he lied about fucking around on his wife".Quote:
I think the Repubs made a stinkie of a dick suck to have something to point out.....much like the Dems are doing with the Foley scandal.
Try again. Also the Lewinsky scandal was hardly an indication on how the country was run.
@everyone - Skizo's response means he has nothing.
Really, out of curiosity, how does Clinton's record stand next to Bush's, and was Clinton a particularily bad president?
All I know that he had illicit relations with some (grown, and by the looks of it pretty nasty) woman, tried to keep that hidden from the public, and got punished for it.
What dirty things did he do to America, or other places in the world, to make him so deserving of being compared to Bush?
EDit: I'm fairly certain that Bush has done quite enough to deserve to be called a bad president, btw.
One thing I disliked for was when the heat was on regarding his personal troubles he seemed to all of sudden want to bomb Iraq.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnnY
I also didn't like his bullshit lawyering when asked about Monica Lewinsky. I just don't like bullshit when something is CaptainObvious.
However, I understand him not wanting to come out with it but just not the "endangering soldier's lives" part.
Bush is clearly the worst President of my lifetime. Worse than Nixon, in fact. He doesn't even ememplify what I like about Republicans. In other words, I think he's a shit conservative too.
Well obviously everything that has gone wrong in the last 6 years is wholly attributed to Clinton and there is nothing GW can do to prevent anything.
Spin aside....... Wasn't there something about the refusal to co-operate with weapons inspectors and them being ejected from iraq?Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Hmm.Quote:
"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors"
[cavuto]Seeing as Iraq had none of the above by the time Bush ordered our troops in, perhaps the Clinton ordered attacks were effective? [\cavuto];) :shifty:
Perhaps. However, I think the timing was more than a cowinkydinky.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
I did like that Clinton chose our air might over numerous ground troops (not saying we didn't use ground troops also).
A partisan might say Bush's difficulties stem from Clinton's failings and make the argument stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Clinton gave away the technical farm plus great wodges of cash and luchre to the North Koreans in exchange for worthless concessions and a large pack of lies.
Clinton didn't do anything much to nail UBL, even with 8 or 10 genuine opportunities, and that's a fact.
Bush is left to deal with both of those items.
One might even say the immigration issue is partially Clinton's doing as well, since that only seriously came to light as part of the foregoing border security problem attributable to enlightened thoughts about terrorism since 9/11.
If 9/11 had happened on Clinton's watch, I imagine the border security issue and immigration in general would be in the same sorry state, because he sure wouldn't have done anything.
Clinton did preside over a reasonably successful welfare reform, but only after having it jammed down his throat by the Republicans.
His efforts vis a vis mideast peace were an utter failure.
He chased sincerely ugly females.
He sent troops into several no-win situations, and "Blackhawk Down" is his debit.
He launched missiles to "send a message" that was never received.
He was at the head of a large pack of Democrats who preached against Saddam and his WMD.
I honestly can't think of anything brilliant he did; of course, I'm sure others disagree.
I'd like to hear someone make a case for a positive "Bill Clinton as President" story...:whistling
I'd really like to know what kind of dirt Sandy Berger was trying to smuggle out of the National Archive in his socks and underwear...must have been awfully embarrassing stuff...:naughty:
Good job! I might not agree with many of them but you gets kudos for stepping up (much better than Skizo I might add).......Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4A partisan might say Bush's difficulties stem from Clinton's failings and make the argument stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Clinton gave away the technical farm plus great wodges of cash and luchre to the North Koreans in exchange for worthless concessions and a large pack of lies.
Clinton didn't anything much to nail UBL, even with 8 or 10 genuine opportunities, and that's a fact.
Bush is left to deal with both of those items.
One might even say the immigration issue is partially Clinton's doing as well, since that only seriously came to light as part of the foregoing border security problem attributable to enlightened thoughts about terrorism since 9/11.
If 9/11 had happened on Clinton's watch, I imagine the border security issue and immigration in general would be in the same sorry state, because he sure wouldn't have done anything.
Clinton did preside over a reasonably successful welfare reform, but only after having it jammed down his throat by the Republicans.
His efforts vis a vis mideast peace were an utter failure.
He chased sincerely ugly females.
He sent troops into several no-win situations, and "Blackhawk Down" is his debit.
He launched missiles to "send a message" that was never received.
He was at the head of a large pack of Democrats who preached against Saddam and his WMD.
I honestly can't think of anything brilliant he did; of course, I'm sure others disagree.
I'd like to hear someone make a case for a positive "Bill Clinton as President" story...:whistling
I'd really like to know what kind of dirt Sandy Berger was trying to smuggle out of the National Archive in his socks and underwear...must have been awfully embarrassing stuff...:naughty:
Now do GW Bush.:devil: What I mean is those were the downs of Clinton. Give me the ups of Bush.
You couldn't name anything brilliantly done by ole Will Clint. What of Bush's brilliance?
Clint had Cuba, Bosnia, North Korea, Haiti, Russia, Somalia, and Iraq. Bush had 9/11 and forced Iraq.
I'd say that the current Iraq debacle trumps all Clints foreign miscues. It's effect is touching the entire world and not in a good way.
Let us not forget the hundred plus pardons he handed out to bombers, drug traffickers, con artists and his own brother of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4A partisan might say Bush's difficulties stem from Clinton's failings and make the argument stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Clinton gave away the technical farm plus great wodges of cash and luchre to the North Koreans in exchange for worthless concessions and a large pack of lies.
Clinton didn't anything much to nail UBL, even with 8 or 10 genuine opportunities, and that's a fact.
Bush is left to deal with both of those items.
One might even say the immigration issue is partially Clinton's doing as well, since that only seriously came to light as part of the foregoing border security problem attributable to enlightened thoughts about terrorism since 9/11.
If 9/11 had happened on Clinton's watch, I imagine the border security issue and immigration in general would be in the same sorry state, because he sure wouldn't have done anything.
Clinton did preside over a reasonably successful welfare reform, but only after having it jammed down his throat by the Republicans.
His efforts vis a vis mideast peace were an utter failure.
He chased sincerely ugly females.
He sent troops into several no-win situations, and "Blackhawk Down" is his debit.
He launched missiles to "send a message" that was never received.
He was at the head of a large pack of Democrats who preached against Saddam and his WMD.
I honestly can't think of anything brilliant he did; of course, I'm sure others disagree.
I'd like to hear someone make a case for a positive "Bill Clinton as President" story...:whistling
I'd really like to know what kind of dirt Sandy Berger was trying to smuggle out of the National Archive in his socks and underwear...must have been awfully embarrassing stuff...:naughty:
I never liked the idea of a President pardoning anyone unless it involved a death penalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizoLet us not forget the hundred plus pardons he handed out to bombers, drug traffickers, con artists and his own brother of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
The pardons themselves are not alarming when I compare them with many in history. It was the shear number of them that was alarming. I think he doled out 150 pardons on his last day of office and had about 400 total.
That's just fucking reeediculous. The number alone should make Presidential pardons obsolete.
Good one, Skidz.;)
I remember Bush Sr. pardoning folks from the Iran/Contra scandal. Why do we keep such a corrupt ass rule? Oh I know, I figure Congress made the rule.:dry:
edit: Wow, the President only has 1 limit to pardoning power. You can't pardon the impeached.
The fucking rules need to be changed. There is nothing to say that the President can't accept money for the pardons....even openly.
Busyman...I refer you to Article II Sec 1[7]. The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them....also Sec IV The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Gotcha, basically....if a President is gonna pardon someone for money, he should do it on his last day in office.:ermm:Quote:
Originally Posted by rjfan
Just a little excerpt from Wiki:
All were part of the mass pardon on Clinton's last day.
Quote:
- Carlos Vignali was pardoned for cocaine trafficking.
- Almon Glenn Braswell was pardoned of his mail fraud and perjury convictions, even while a federal investigation was underway regarding additional money laundering and tax evasion charges. Braswell and Carlos Vignali each paid approximately $200,000 to First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton's brother, Hugh Rodham, to "represent" their respective cases for clemency. Hugh Rodham returned the payments after they were disclosed to the public. Braswell would later invoke the Fifth Amendment at a Senate Committee hearing in 2001, when questioned about allegations of his having systematically defrauded senior citizens of millions of dollars.
- Marc Rich, a fugitive, was pardoned of tax evasion, after clemency pleas from Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, among many other international luminaries. Denise Rich, Marc's former wife, was a close friend of the Clintons and had made substantial donations to both Clinton's library and Hillary's Senate campaign. Several months after her last donation, emails reveal Republican attorney "Scooter" Libby asked her to approach Clinton about pardoning Marc Rich. Clinton agreed to a pardon that required Marc Rich to pay a $100,000,000 fine before he could return to the United States. According to Paul Volcker's independent investigation of Iraqi Oil-for-Food kickback schemes, Marc Rich was a middleman for several suspect Iraqi oil deals involving over 4 million barrels of oil.
- Susan McDougal, who had already completed her sentence, was pardoned for her role in the Whitewater scandal; McDougal had served 18 months on contempt charges for refusing to testify about Clinton's role.
- Roger Clinton, the president's half-brother, on drug charges. Roger Clinton would be charged with drunk driving and disorderly conduct in an unrelated incident within a year of the pardon. He was also briefly alleged to have been utilized in lobbying for the Braswell pardon, among others.
God alone knows what sort of hijinx and tomfoolery Bush will be getting up to on his last day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™Gotcha, basically....if a President is gonna pardon someone for money, he should do it on his last day in office.:ermm:Quote:
Originally Posted by rjfan
Maybe. I doubt anyone would approach Clinton's degree of pardons.Quote:
Originally Posted by CheeseGod alone knows what sort of hijinx and tomfoolery Bush will be getting up to on his last day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
There should be an uproar about even allowing pardons.
Before addressing the "Clinton pardon" point I would like to state that I am not a fan of presidential pardons. There may be special cases, but these should be rare.
It may seem that Clinton was a pardon machine when just the last day is highlighted, it's a nice piece of spin, but add the fact he pardoned nobody at all in four of the first five years in office, and very few in later years, then you have a bit of context.
sourceQuote:
"Early in President Clinton’s first term there were signs that he might depart from the consistent practice of his predecessors of relying on the Attorney General’s advice in clemency matters. For example, the White House undertook to respond itself to inquiries about pardon matters, and many of its written responses included a phrase suggesting that the President considered the Justice Department only one of many potential sources of advice. Also, in contrast to past administrations, the Clinton White House did not act on clemency cases in a regular and timely fashion: no grants at all were issued in four of President Clinton’s first five years in office, and only a relative handful of pardons were granted in later years, usually at Christmas. The total number of cases decided did not keep pace with the unprecedented number of new applications each year, so that the case backlog reported by the Pardon Attorney grew steadily larger. When President Clinton departed Washington on January 20, he left behind him well over 3000 pending clemency cases, all of which are now of course the responsibility of the Bush Administration....
Several months before the end of President Clinton’s second term, reports began to circulate that there would be a large number of grants at the end of his term. This by itself would be unusual, for pardoning had in the past taken place regularly and consistently throughout the President’s term and was not reserved until its end. Even more unusual, some pardon applicants and their lawyers were reportedly given to understand, by Justice Department officials and others, that the White House might be receptive to applications filed there directly, given the short time period remaining before the end of the administration. It was said that President Clinton did not want to leave office having pardoned less generously than any President in history, and only three weeks before leaving office he himself remarked publicly on his frustration with the existing system of Justice Department review.
While one might expect some slippage in the ordinary pardon process at the end of an administration, it was clear to anyone familiar with that process that something unprecedented was about to take place."
Well I hope Bush doesn't feel he has to be as generous with pardons due to past Presidents. I don't think he will be.
Btw, I don't do spin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
I think the sudden flood of pardons at the very end provides context for the preceding eight years of Clinton's administration, not the other way around.
I think you can safely assume whatever takes place will be revealed in all it's gory detail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese
He may not get the chance, though; if the Dems take the House and Senate, they're going to start impeachment proceedings immediately, or so they say.
Bush had better get his hummer while he can...:dry:
I can honestly say that if Ole Will Clint was to be impeached, Bush should be imprisoned. Really.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4I think you can safely assume whatever takes place will be revealed in all it's gory detail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese
He may not get the chance, though; if the Dems take the House and Senate, they're going to start impeachment proceedings immediately, or so they say.
Bush had better get his hummer while he can...:dry:
What does it honestly mean that you can say that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Honestly and Really.
Are you one of those self-appointed (secular) moral arbiters of the left at all (at all).
Your turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Please remember to indicate which incidents occurring during Clinton's eight years you feel correspond in magnitude and scope to 9/11, the Indonesian tsunami, Hurricane Katrina, etc.
Whatever you have to say about George W. Bush the fact alone is that this man has had an steel backbone in dealing with this nations current security needs.
"If I would have been President this would have never happened." John Kerry(L)Mass. Of all of the presumtions and downright assanine remarks I have heard...look, if Mr. Kerry gets to--""America is about second chances"-- be this Nations leader he'd better hope to high hell that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! happens that "wouldnt have happened if I'd had been President." How the hell is it that he gets away with this garbage...."If I'd have been Mayor I would have held back the waters in New Orleans." " If such bullshit-- It makes me think of John Kerry telling Washington.."Youd better not cross the Delaware...you might catch cold!"
A Republican Senator saying something as completely absurd as what this man has said...they would have asked for his head! The difference is this. The Dems. are the party who are "Concerned with the plight of the little man...we cant be bigots because we invented the idea of flinging it as a label....it also reminds of the Nation of Islam jokes who claim they cant be racist because they dont have the finacial clout to do so! What! I must be a frickin' moron...somebody please explain a liberal to me.
9/11 - Bush failed. He attacked the right country then ignored it to attack the wrong one. Some tough guy; he sat there after being told our country was under attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4Your turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busyman™
Please remember to indicate which incidents occurring during Clinton's eight years you feel correspond in magnitude and scope to 9/11, the Indonesian tsunami, Hurricane Katrina, etc.
The Tsunami - not our direct problem. He only upped the amount, twice, just to save face. He even got his dad and ole Will Clint to do fundraising.
Hurricane Katrina - part of the US goes fuck up and biggov is a week out. Sure locals are partly to blame. However, PART OF THE US WENT FUCK UP.
Then I watch food come in, with Bush of course, so there's a photo op. I remember this teenager crying on Bush's shoulder but he was too busy posing her for a photo. Fucking sickening.
He also appoints an idiot as head of FEMA, tells him good job afterwards when it was CaptainObvious to the rest of the world it wasn't, then says he didn't alert the White House, and turns out he did. WTF!?
I can't say Bush failed on the tsunami (he had to be pushed). But the other 2 were complete failures.
Iraq is his biggest failure. He spearheaded the effort for our military to get into this neverending sinkhole of a war. Now it's about not letting that oil get into worse hands.
Mission Accomplished my ass. Help the Iraqi's my ass.
Bush's idiotics have touched folks everyday lives in a very bad way and that's a little too much for a President.
I know people tend to back their party and defend their affiliated President but Democrat Republican Whig whateverthefuck, this motherfucker is a bona fide fuck up who hasn't a clue.
I really don't see how this can be defended.
Btw, it wasn't my turn. You named the downs of Clinton. No ups for Bush?
I had a thread laid out for this awhile ago and there were only crickets chirping besides the smart asses chiming in.
I also agree that Bush has had more to deal with than Clinton. However, it's quite obvious he was not up for the task. He has been a failure.
Assinine remarks indeed, I agree....just like your first sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjfan
Where was this steel backbone regarding our ports?
What about the slow progress with airline security?
Where was this tough guy when he was told we were under attack? He froze up like he pissed himself as if saying, "I ga go doody". You cannot tell me that if he was a liberal that you wouldn't be saying the same thing.
Flying in jets for show, walking tough, and taking John Wayne pictures does not make one tough.
Hey lets attack Iraq. We can send the fucking Coast Guard over there? The fook?:blink:
This man is Darth Sidious. It's like he's trying to fuck up. OMG!!1OMG!! NOW WE WENEED TEH PATREEHUTT ACT!!!1!1