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:lol: finally...
Next Sunday at 8:30 AM the instructor will pick me up, and I'll be having my first driving lesson :)
Now, is driving a manual car actually difficult? How easy is it to get the hang of the clutch etc.?
What are the odds of me crashing on my first lesson :lol:
Raf
Well in my first lesson all i did was drove the car along the road and did a left turn at a junction, its fairly easy to get used to the clutch if you ask me but it all depends on whether the car is a diesel or petrol, diesels are so much easier to get the hang of.
im sure you will be fine though, the instructors really make things easy. :)
What makes a diesel easier to handle than a petrol car..? :huh:
And I really hope the instructor is good.. some of my mates said he was brilliant :)
A few things about a manual transmission, Rafi:Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
When driving away from a dead stop, you bring in (engage) the clutch by bringing it up against slightly increased throttle.
Once the car begins to move, fully release the clutch before applying more throttle; as you get used to this procedure, you can quicken your actions, all the while working on driving away (and shifting) smoothly.
Aaron is right about diesel vs petrol; diesels have much more abundant torque, and are thus less clutch-sensitive, technique-wise; driving a gas-powered vehicle is a better learning experience.
Also, you will be driving on public thoroughfares, and not a racetrack; there are many shared techniques, but one which does not belong on the street at all is braking (slowing) by shifting down.
Use the foot brakes instead.
Driving away on an uphill can be tricky, occasionally requiring a heel-toe brake-throttle technique, but we'll save that for later.
Good luck. :)
When starting from stationary, remember to get the biting point on the clutch before releasing the handbrake (secondary brake). failure to do this if facing up an incline will result in the car rolling back, and then make sure you release the handbrake before increasing the throttle enough to move the car forward. Failure to do this will result in a kangaroo effect and probably a stall.
Also when stationary, the correct thing to do is put the handbrake on and the gears in neutral until you are ready to move, not one foot on the clutch while in gear and the other on the footbrake. (the same principle applies with automatic transmission but is seldom applied)
of course after you pass your test you can operate with all the bad habits you desire:naughty:
Using the e-brake as a crutch will only slow down the process of learning to "balance" on the clutch, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Might be necessary right at the beginning of the learning curve (only on a hill) but should be abandoned ASAP.
Tralala- my niece learned to drive my Z (probably one of the crankiest, most "mechanical" tranny/clutch combos ever) in under an hour.
Once you get it right, it's second nature.
I hate automatics.
If certain that you are on a level road (appearances can be deceptive) then a learner could get away with it assuming they have mastered the clutch control.Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
I'm sure many insurance claims will prove otherwise.
until then the correct method (according to the standard of the country, some countries have very low standards) should be employed.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Of course the only one tralalala should listen to is his driving instructor.
Manuals are more difficult to learn on than automatics, simply because you have to pay attention to the clutch and shifting. Sometimes it's better to learn the basics of driving on an automatic if you're especially nervous.
It will make absolutely horrible grinding sounds.
:shuriken:
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
Are you an Asian-Indian employed as an actuarial for an insurance company or do you write instructions on how to assemble the cheap furniture sold at Ikea stores at all (at all).Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
BTW-
What do kangaroos have to do with learning to drive. :dabs:
OMG went today to do the eye test, and failed the left eye..!! :angry:
I never needed glasses in my life!! Now i failed because i got 1 number wrong?! WTF... I'm so pissed off.. :(
You don't need glasses now. A monocle should suffice :smilie4:
retook the eye test, and passed.. did the other one at another optometrist.. thank god for that.. a real relief :)
About starting on hills, as J2 said, be careful because there will be roll back, pray to god the person behind you isn't close (tailgating).
And I think that most people should learn how to drive on standard/manual transmission cars, that way they know how to drive both and Auto and Manual.
If your driving skills require you "pray to god" then maybe you need to practice more.:unsure: God is not going to help you, but you can help yourself by awareness of hazards and driving in a manner that will safely allow preventative action. This doesn't mean that you will always be protected from the actions of others but it greatly reduces risks. Most "accidents" are caused by human error.Quote:
Originally Posted by cpt_azad
J2 said you need to have your heal on the brake while your toe is on the accelerator for uphill starting.
I have to assume he was joking ;) :shifty:Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
1. I did not say "heal". That would make no sense whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by vidcc
2. You quote of my post is accurate, though, and-
3. No, I was not joking. It is a common enough technique amongst those who can execute it, which group I gather does not include yourself.
Excellent drivers separate themselves thus from others whose efforts are, shall we say, more pedestrian.
Yes I agree you did indeed say heel and I mistyped.
It's a terminology thing....however......
How does "heel toe" Which seems to be similar to what I call double de-clutching when downshifting but single clutching relate to pulling away uphill?
There's no such thing............ Only people who think they are. Often included in this group are people that have had many accidents (somehow always the other guys fault) ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Some drivers are better than others.
I passed my IAM test back in the eighties. I don't think it makes me an excellent driver. It made me more aware of how lacking the basic test standard (back then) was. It also dispelled a lot of my thinking as to what made for a good driver.
Very few think they are a bad driver. Many think everyone else is. ( this is different from assuming the guy in the other car is a bad driver and will make a mistake as part of defensive driving)
This is news?Quote:
Originally Posted by vidccYes I agree you did indeed say heel and I mistyped.
There's no such thing............ Only people who think they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
That is an utterly wrong and stupid thing to say.
Often included in this group are people that have had many accidents (somehow always the other guys fault) ;)
I have never been the driver in an accident in my life.
Hopefully that will never change.
Some drivers are better than others.
Oh, so they can be better...just not excellent, huh?
I passed my IAM test back in the eighties. I don't think it makes me an excellent driver. It made me more aware of how lacking the basic test standard (back then) was. It also dispelled a lot of my thinking as to what made for a good driver.
Very few think they are a bad driver. Many think everyone else is. ( this is different from assuming the guy in the other car is a bad driver and will make a mistake as part of defensive driving)
As to the original point, which was your taking exception to my blurb about heel-toe technique, I note you still do not acknowledge it.
How do you account for this, your being an extremely well-trained, yet self-effacing, less-than-excellent-but-willing-to-say-the-other-guy-sucks kind of driver?
In closing, I will admit that, by the standards of some, I may not be an excellent driver.
I would bet, though, by most standards, I am a better (and certainly more resourceful) driver than you are.
yes this ^ reply is wrong..Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Now there are good/better drivers always striving to improve, excellent...no
Can you honestly say that in all that time it's never been more luck than judgment?Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
In the later edit: which could have been better put in a new post, butQuote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
It's a terminology thing....however......
How does "heel toe" Which seems to be similar to what I call double de-clutching when downshifting but with single clutching relate to pulling away uphill?
nice of you to admit itQuote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
and then you pull it back with a big head...the attitude I mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Oh, ffs. :dry:
Heel - toe is a method of keeping the revs up when changing gear, something racing drivers do all the time, it is not for hill starts, that's what the handbrake is for. Telling a young kid going for his test to use heel - toe for pulling away on hills is stupid and irresponsible.
I see you aren't too accomplished behind the wheel either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava Estelle
If you'd actually read rather than skim on the way to indulging your anti-j2 pique, you'd notice I did not tell him to use heel-toe, I merely told him it existed to be imparted at a later (and as yet unspecified) time.
I know you take umbrage when I insult your intelligence, but it precisely these occasions which prompt me to do so, dumb-fuck.
By your own criteria I'm far more accomplished than you, having driven everything from pushbikes to 80 ton truck mounted cranes and everything in between, including saloon car racing, and I've done that on four continents for the past 43 years ... without an accident or as much as a speeding fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
You told him it was for hill starts, whether or not you told him to do it now or later is irrelevant, it was wrong.Quote:
If you'd actually read rather than skim on the way to indulging your anti-j2 pique, you'd notice I did not tell him to use heel-toe, I merely told him it existed to be imparted at a later (and as yet unspecified) time.
"Driving away on an uphill can be tricky, occasionally requiring a heel-toe brake-throttle technique, but we'll save that for later."
You don't insult my intelligence, you just spit the dummy every time I show you up to be a big-noter ... oh how the mighty have fallen, just like the Reps. So you stick to personal insults, and I'll continue to correct you.Quote:
I know you take umbrage when I insult your intelligence, but it precisely these occasions which prompt me to do so, dumb-fuck.
C'mon guys.. never meant it to turn into flaming and stuff.. it's my first driving lesson we're talking about, on Sunday.. remember? :)
The next thing to do is the theory test..
Oh, come now, Rafi.Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
I haven't flamed Ava yet; I just want you to be the best driver in all of Israel, and she wants you to be something less, perhaps a social democrat. :dabs:
What is the heel toe thing?
For hill starts I leave the handbrake on and pull up the clutch (one hand on the steering wheel on on the handbrake). As the car begins to pull forward I depress the handbrake and move off (lifting the clutch and pressing the accelerator pedal normally once the hand brake is down).
I was just about to ask the same question. When I'm driving my right heel never leaves the floor. Neither does my left one, truth be told :ermm:
Heel-toe is a method of keeping your revs up when changing gear and braking, usually into a corner. It's used by rally drivers and saloon car racers because they can't afford to waste even a split second on a corner.
You brake with your heel whilst tapping the throttle with your toes, so your foot is sideways. This keeps the revs up so that when you pull out of a corner the revs match the wheel speed of the car.
Perfect!Quote:
Originally Posted by SeK612
Oh, OK :ermm:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava Estelle
If you're not racing, that seems like an insane and pointless thing to try.
Also, back to something else J2 said, I quite often downshift to reduce speed a bit. Saves the brake-pads a little bit. :happy:
I think if you do the Advanced Driving Test (UK) they tell you not to do that, but meh...
Back when I bothered about such things, one of the things my instructor made me do was practice keeping the car standing still, pointing uphill, only using the throttle, no brakes. (The parking break was mainly for, you know, parking.)
Countering gravity as it were. I thought that was what J2 meant.
Also, downshifting to reduce speed was something I was taught to do, seeing as how reducing speed that way, rather than braking, can be safer on an icy road. (Hardly ever drove something with ABS (anti-lock braking system to you non-swedes/germans out there).)
EDit: I'm told the police in our area used to go through transmissions like something else, putting their cars into reverse while still moving forward at some speed, to stop quicker. That's probably overdoing it (and also fairly hard to do with modern cars.) :ermm:
I honestly couldn't tell you how I pull away on an upward incline. It doesn't involve any racing moves or fancy parking brake maneuvers though.
:shuriken:
:lol: Aint that difficult to be a good driver in Israel.. most of them suck.... =\Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4Oh, come now, Rafi.Quote:
Originally Posted by tralalala
I haven't flamed Ava yet; I just want you to be the best driver in all of Israel, and she wants you to be something less, perhaps a social democrat. :dabs:
However, I haven't reached starting a car on an incline... first, I wanna get past the "getting-the-hang-of-the-clutch-accelerator-gearshift-coordination" thingy.. then, I'll take a look at what to do on an incline :)
Heel-toe is, as Ava agrees, a racing technique.
It just happens to work rather well in situations such as I have described.
Down-shifting in order to drive more slowly (that is to say, as a method of limiting speed on a downhill) is not what I am talking about relative to what I said previously.
When the intent is to stop, it is better to use the brakes, as to do otherwise puts the wear on the clutch facing and pressure plate, rather than the brake pads.
Passenger car equipment is substantially less durable than racing equipment, and it is for this reason as well as maintenance costs that braking should be favored.
As anyone who has worked as a mechanic knows, replacing brake pads is much less labor- and money-intensive than replacing a clutch, pressure plate, throw-out bearing, and re-surfacing a flywheel, especially in FWD/transaxle installations.
For the do-it-yourselfer, brakes are easily repaired/rebuilt in a garage or driveway.
For most people, however, clutch work is for the professionals, who will not usually impart information such as I am; they like to do clutch work, and even more, they like to bill for their services.
Car owners who've paid the tab for such repairs and still don't know this will continue to make the mistake, but now the rest of you have no excuse.
Go forth and brake.
BTW-
All this is not to say there is anything at all wrong with the handbrake method; whatever blows your hair back, right?
So, lots of revs and drop the clutch as fast as possible then :naughty:Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Replacing tyres (tires to you) is cheaper than a new clutch too.
Who said "lots of revs", or "drop the clutch"?Quote:
Originally Posted by lynxSo, lots of revs and drop the clutch as fast as possible then :naughty:Quote:
Originally Posted by j2k4
Replacing tyres (tires to you) is cheaper than a new clutch too.
Properly executed, it works as smoothly as on a level surface.
Actual clutch and throttle technique is exactly as usual.
Nothing about it is hard on tires (tyres to you).
Perfect?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava Estelle
Maybe if you're 13 but anyone who has driven a stick for over 2 weeks and needs to rely on the ebrake seriously needs to reevaluate their coordination skills.
As for downshifting to stop/slow down...j2 got it right.
Replacing brake pads is definitely preferable to replacing the clutch (or even worse, the synchros).
Anyway, if you're doing it right, neither excessive braking or downshifting is even necessary.
The first step when preparing to stop is let off the gas which, for most stickshift cars, causes an immediate and usually sufficient rate of decelleration.
;)Quote:
Originally Posted by clockerPerfect?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava Estelle
Maybe if you're 13 but anyone who has driven a stick for over 2 weeks and needs to rely on the ebrake seriously needs to reevaluate their coordination skills.
As for downshifting to stop/slow down...j2 got it right.
Replacing brake pads is definitely preferable to replacing the clutch (or even worse, the synchros).
Anyway, if you're doing it right, neither excessive braking or downshifting is even necessary.
The first step when preparing to stop is let off the gas which, for most stickshift cars, causes an immediate and usually sufficient rate of decelleration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
Rubbish! When pulling away on a hill\incline you use your handbrake, which, if you're doing the right thing, should be on anyway. You put the car in gear, go to move, and as you feel it push against the handbrake you drop it and move forward. At least that's how drivers do it, clock makers may have another way.
You're kidding, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava EstelleQuote:
Originally Posted by clocker
Rubbish! When pulling away on a hill\incline you use your handbrake, which, if you're doing the right thing, should be on anyway.
Why in the world would I engage the parking brake just because I'm waiting on an incline?
to stop yourself rolling back? :unsure:
That's what balancing on the clutch's engagement point does.
You don't move forward, you don't move back.
You definitely do not engage the ebrake.
I don't believe we're even having this discussion.
Do you guys really put the parking brake on every time you come to a stop sign/light?