Palestine Or Israel?

Who do you support?

IMO-

I support Jews to have their own place to settle, but if they lost the land in a war, to the victor go the spoils.

Unless they can prove that the Bible which allows them Israel is non-fiction, I don't believe it.

The palestinians deserve their land back, but I don't agree with their ways of obtaining it.

How to settle this conflict? The palestinians have to agree to live peacefully with the Isrealis, but get rid of those idiotic checkpoints 1 by 1. Palestinians should not be restricted to their little patch of land, they owned all of Isreal at one point, can they not all coexist?

----edited, due to profound stupidity of original post----

Both.

Enough calls for cessation of hostilities, renunciation of threats, historical or otherwise, FORGET ALL THE RHETORIC! Just get 'em situated, define their space, and then stand guard until they get tired of sticking out their tongues at each other.

Infidels, my ass! All they've ever needed was a referee-can the U. N. pull it off?

Stay tuned, more half-baked ideas are in the oven! :P

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kAb@17 May 2003 - 03:44
Who do you support?

IMO-

I support Jews to have their own place to settle, but if they lost the land in a war, to the victor go the spoils.

Unless they can prove that the Bible which allows them Israel is non-fiction, I don't believe it.

The palestinians deserve their land back, but I don't agree with their ways of obtaining it.

How to settle this conflict? The palestinians have to agree to live peacefully with the Isrealis, but get rid of those idiotic checkpoints 1 by 1. Palestinians should not be restricted to their little patch of land, they owned all of Isreal at one point, can they not all coexist?

---

It's not only the checkpoints but the settlers too. They steal the best land from the palestinians and then complain that they are not liked.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by j2k4@17 May 2003 - 14:33


Stay tuned, more half-baked ideas are in the oven! :P

---

http://www.plasticbag.org/images/baking.jpg

The chances of them living peacefully in the same space are a little slim I'm afraid, I don't think it'll happen. The only chance of peace would be a Palestinian state, but even that would not be agreeable to both sides. As was said, Palestinians used to own all of Israel at one point, so to expect them to be finally satisfied when they are given their own little patch is naive. But I don't see Israel giving up too much. In fact isn't the settlement development still going on as the "road map" is discussed?

Quick aside, I love this room - there is no forum like it on the net. I hope this room stays even though it is supposed to be about the Iraq war - it's now generally about politics and various countries' foreign policy and makes for truly fascinating reading even if I don't post here all the time. I don't think topics like these would fit well in the lounge alongside female pornstars and 3 word stories.

No, but they would fit in Bookworld. :-"

:ninja:

Israrel did obtain some of the land legally by buying it from the palestinians. It is ok for israelis to live in that land. However the israelis living on the settlements in palestinian land should be deported back to their original country.

it's disgusting what israel gets away with. sharon should be tried for war crimes. if any other country in the region was pulling this crap people would be up in arms. they bulldoze peoples homes destroy their business's and no one says :blink: boo. save the world end religion now....please

i have to side with the palestinian underdogs
israel responds to rock throwing kids with tank and APC units with apache air support
if that isn't terrorism then what the fuck is
people suicide bombing is clearly a deplorable act, but it is also clearly a desperate act.
the israeli nation was born out of hideous abuse and now defines itself through hideous abuse.
Unless there is a seachange in the politics of israel and their unfaultering US support, the aparteid subjugation of palestinians will continue

well said echinda

Israel
The Palistinians have had several chances to have there own country(land 4 peace).
Most Palistinians just don't wan't peace with Israel!
The truth is the Arab countries want this to continue on forever.
It's all a ruse!
Israel is not the bad guy here.
Israel does'nt respond to rock throwing at taks with deadly force.
Without the US, Israel will be "driven into the sea". :ph34r:
Thats a qoute from the palistinian constitution.
I believe other Arab countries adopted this as well.
This problem is never going away.
Ever!
There hatred blinds them to the truth.
They will believe any lie that is anti US or Israel.
They believed the lies there news was reporting about Saddam and the Iraq war.
When the statue came down they were shocked!
Which only goes to show that the hatred is so deep that there own news agencys will lie if it serves there purpose
God Bless Israel.

5 minutes ago I just heard of another suicide bomber killing more innocent people.
Chicken shit way to fight!
No fuckin' honor.
But thats what terrorists do and thats what terrorism is.

There will never be peace while the same patch of land is considered Holy to two such fervent religious cultures.

Islam is supposed to be a peaceful religion, so I can't quite understand who it spawns so many suicide bombers. Someone needs to explain that to me.

Judaism teaches their followers that they are God's chosen people, which gives them an enormous chip on their shoulder. Also by using various Old Testament passages to suit them, such as an eye for an eye, they can justify their excessive use of helicopter gunships. They are a paranoid people, who I feel sorry for.

Hell, I feel sorry for everyone really, lets nuke the lot of them and put them out of our misery. ;) :o

And another thing, why is Israel in the Eurovision Song Contest, they're not in Europe, never have been, and their musics shit anyway, they only with that Transvestite because people thought it was a joke.. Doesn't the Bible say anything about Transvestites for Gods sake? :P

EDIT: Put in smilies so that people know I'm joking :blink:

Both Palestinians and Israelies should get a smack on the nose, told that they are bad and that they should go stand in the corner till they're ready to behave themselves.

:)

OR

Just eradicate religion! People can interpret (is that the right word to use?) the Bible etc to mean different things...so the only answer may be to get rid of it all!

:flowers:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by barbarossa@19 May 2003 - 11:29
...Islam is supposed to be a peaceful religion...

---

So is Christianity. ;)

:ninja:

The way I see it is that Israel is a nation (only 60ish years old) that was founded by Terrorism/Abduction and Murder of the occupying "peace keeping" forces. But if any justification is needed they can always point the finger at the Holocaust. That is guaranteed to get everyone feeling guilty and keeping their opinions marginalised or condemned as anti-semitic/racist (God forbid!!). The Israeli government tacitly supports the murder of innocent men, women and children and then get angry when there are retaliatory strikes. I'm no fan of suicide bombing, but neither am I a fan of state sanctioned murder. The root of the problem is religion so my, admittedly radical, solution would be to nuke Jerusalem and Mecca so that the "kids" can't have their "toys". Seriously, if the US withheld its vast monetary assistance Israel would cease to function within a week. They would have to trade with their neighbours and maybe swallow some of that misplaced national pride!!

I wish the troubles in Palestine/Gaza would end, the endless pictures of slaughter are getting me down and they could fit more sport on the news!! :lol:

Peace.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^

5 minutes ago I just heard of another suicide bomber killing more innocent people.
Chicken shit way to fight!
No fuckin' honor.
But thats what terrorists do and thats what terrorism is.

---

i think that the same applies to those who use, B52s, Predator UAs and Tomahawk cruise missiles, to kill innocent people.

Wow echidna I had no idea you were so knowledgable about US weaponry!
Why are you so quick to blame the US and not Saddam for this?
He had 12 years man.
Also I think everyone is forgetting the fact that the UN had something like 18 resolutions of which he violated every one.
I don't know why I decided to use the UN but it's there for what it's worth.
They are a joke!
Can someone buy Echidna a plane ticket so he can come here and see that we're not as bad as he thinks?

Echinda's Trip to the US Itinerary
1.Las Vegas - I think he needs to get laid. ;)
2.New York - I'd take him to Yankee Stadium where we love being called Yanks.
Then the WTC site and the statue of liberty and after that we could go out and party the NY nightlife.
3.Los Angeles (Hollywood) - where he could meet some of the stars that agree with his anti american stance.
Then we could hit the beaches and check out the women possibly getting him laid again. :)
You will wish they all could be California girls!
Since he might feel to at home there it's off to..
4.well I'm not sure...anyone have any ideas?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@19 May 2003 - 23:16
Wow echidna I had no idea you were so knowledgable about US weaponry!
Why are you so quick to blame the US and not Saddam for this?
He had 12 years man.
Also I think everyone is forgetting the fact that the UN had something like 18 resolutions of which he violated every one.
I don't know why I decided to use the UN but it's there for what it's worth.
They are a joke!
Can someone buy Echidna a plane ticket so he can come here and see that we're not as bad as he thinks?

Echinda's Trip to the US Itinerary
1.Las Vegas - I think he needs to get laid. ;)
2.New York - I'd take him to Yankee Stadium where we love being called Yanks.
Then the WTC site and the statue of liberty and after that we could go out and party the NY nightlife.
3.Los Angeles (Hollywood) - where he could meet some of the stars that agree with his anti american stance.
Then we could hit the beaches and check out the women possibly getting him laid again. :)
You will wish they all could be California girls!
Since he might feel to at home there it's off to..
4.well I'm not sure...anyone have any ideas?

---

A splendid idea-we could raise funds to create international awareness of the 'real' U.S. :P

I'm reasonably sure we could arrange an exchange program: One willing but undecided foreigner for one Hollywood celebrity-I suggest we begin our search in, oh, let's see......Someplace nice during monsoon season-vulnerable to tidal waves.....Bangladesh? :lol:

even while theyre sorting out the "roadmap to peace" isreal are killing palestiniens and building on theyre land.
palastiniens have nothing left but to suicide bomb.
the way of life is so poor they cant do anything they cannot hold peaceful protests, they are broken up by isreal and ignored
put yourself in theyre mind: they will destroy your home. they will kill your people, they take your land and your jobs.
all they have left is to kill themselves and if you can take isrealis with you..
3 palastinian civilians are killed for every isreali

p.s. did you know one of the peace protesters killed were jewish

Well now.

Israel is offering to pull out of palestinian controlled areas and eliminate border controls... :o


i hope this works.. :unsure:

Hi,

Just thought I may aswell join in..
The only way to stop the fighting is to stop the US's military support for Israel.
The israelis are killing everyday. Children and Women.
You only see what they allow you to see. Ive lived their, and filmed it, and its not nice...

Only a few weeks ago, an American girl died trying to protect an arab doctors house from being demolished.
The bulldozer stood infront of her for 20mins, then just crushed her to death.....may her soul rest in Peace.
Her name was Rachel Corrie.

NOW< at present, their are certain areas that if you are a westerner you have to sign a document from Israelis that says you are their and you are aware you are at risk of getting shot. Basically the document says if you die or get shot their, its your own fault for being their&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;



They are still doing it, even as we speak. The media news what u see is fabrication...most of palestinians dont even accept abu mazen.
Sharon is a terrorist. He was sacked many years ago for being to violent....and guess what...hes the leader of them now&#33;


Their soldiers kill WOMEN,CHILDREN, AND THE ELDERLY.
i HAVE FOOTAGE OF THEM DOING IT.

They have now knocked more houses down and have built an INTEL chip plant on occupied land, a court case which is still going on. Same with Coke, and many others ( i can provide all evidence, and links for all those that are interested)

They now are going to own the water supply, and have disected Palestine where it cannot become a state...
Israelis will have more water than palestinians, even though the palestinians are more in population.


People may call the suicide bombers terrorist, which they are, but so are the Zionists.
If the Israelis are killing with F-16&#39;s, Helicopters, Grenade Launcers, Bullets which are banned all over the world, shaking people as part of regular &#39;interogatin&#39;&#39; of suspects, then they have to expect resistence.
The people they are fighting have nothing, all their wealth, status has been robbed from them.

Then we can go onto Israeli NUCLEAR CAPABILITY, a dangerous game they are playing..


Saddest thing is, many are brainwashed into thinking Sharon is doing good, &#39;pulling back&#39;, its all part of the plans they have..
we have not forgot saabre and shatila.......
If anyone looks into my folder, you will see live footage, of Israelis kicking 5year old kids in the face, breaking peoples arms in the desert with stones, actually slicing off someones foot. and I have 1000&#39;s more....


We can blame palestinians for doing suicide bombings, but you have to go a stage further than that...and ask the question WHY?
When kids are seeing their houses getting knocked down and replaced with Israeli houses, they are then brought up in refuee camps with a certain hatred for the occupying force....

When it is commonplace to &#39;round -up&#39; over 3000 people including young boys form the age of 4years old, to elderly men up to 85, then you know their is something wrong...
When it is common for palestinian women having to give birth at check points because they are not allowed further access to hospitals. Many of these kids and mothers die, because of no assistence during the birth...
Whilst Israeli soldiers just sit their, and dont even offer a towel or water...
You may think I making it up, but if you went their, you would find a whole different world to whzt we see in TV.


Dont let the media trick you....
CNN, Sky news, dont forget, your only allowed to see what they WANT you to see. thats fact...



I know this is off the subject, but about September 11th, it was a tradegy definatley, and may all those that died rest in peace.
I was in Pakistan months before the bombing, and we already knew that the US was going to attack Afghanistan by October-Novermber time. It was even in the papers in Karachi...
We were told by an American official to get ready for a big US presence in that side of the world from October onwards...to fight in Afghanistan.....
In JULY, US paid Millions of Dollars to the taleban, known as &#39;Aid&#39;. Taleban didnt accept the US offer for the oil pipeline contract in Afghanistan, and handed the contract to a competing Argetinian company. Within the next few months, trade centre went down, the US forces were in their, and guess what, they got the pipeline in the end.

DONT FORGET, IF THEY WERENT OCCUPYING, THEIR WOULDNT BE A PROBLEM&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
ITS THAT SIMPLE
the suicide bombings are a RESULT of occupation. They have no guns, f-16&#39;s, and army uniforms to fight the oppressors.
Thats why Israel done what it did, when Palestine was trying to become a state many years ago...
I mean, Israel on creation, was accepted within HOURS of its creation by the US. Within Hours...one phonecall, and their now &#39;recognised&#39;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Well, I hope I havent offended anyone, and if so, my humblest apologies...
Hopefully, one day, we can all live in peace, regardless of religion and race....
If anyone wants anymore info, I can supply, and 1000&#39;s of video footage which is simply not on the net now.

The question is not about religion, but about basic morality.

Because of Israel, we now know that the worlds LARGEST refugee number is that of Palestinians.
MAny who under the UN laws , are meant to be able to go back home, but Israel is not allowing them to go to their own homes..

Sometimes, we have to actually be present in an area to really know whats is going on. When I see what is on the TV, and then I know what I saw, makes me sick...so much for democracy in the West. More like brainwashing and fabrication.

Only way to imagine the problem is imagining where you live, are attacked by a neighbouring country...
They take your land, plantations, olive trees, and resources...
They take your house, even though you have documentation for ownership of property. They put you into a refugee camp, and you have to watch a stranger living in your own house...
You cant go to the shops, it takes over 5hours to do a normal 30minute journey.



Peace,

Zinedene

*****boycott INTEL******

Of all the instances of aggression/discrimination against Palestinians, why are those perpetrated by Israel the only ones ever mentioned? Almost every country in the mid-east has a history of pushing the Palestinians around, and shuffling refugees from place to place-in 1991, immediately post Gulf-War, Kuwait expelled 300,000 Palestinians (who had lived there for years) simply because Arafat supported Hussein during the war. I don&#39;t recall hearing about THAT from the media, the U.N., or anyone else.

Fact: Where the media is concerned, the unfortunate plight of the Palestinians serves as nothing more than a "club" with which to hammer Israel.

The Palestinians suffer the ignominy, however ironic, of being even more "friendless" than Israel.

If I was to take sides, I would also go for the underdog like someone said.
The solution is of course not simple and ir requires a huge compromise on both
sides. I really don&#39;t think they can resolve it on their own specially when both sides
are influenced by religion.

I think the world leaders should put their heads together and start a process of figuring out a fair way to divide the territory keeping in mind both sides interests and history. Hopefully a decision will be reached possibly after a long time of debate. (Kind of like a trial).

Once that decision is reached and a division is achieved; it should be enforced by the international comunity.

If that doesn&#39;t work....well...I think someone suggested nuking the place....I give up&#33;

By the way; I like the "U.S international awareness exchange program" and Las Vegas is a
great place to start&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; B)

All this talk of going for the underdog is ridiculous. :blink:

Look..The palistinians were offered a state way back when Israel was created.
Side By Side.
They refused, to put it lightly and swore they would drive the "Zionist Pigs" into the sea.
They&#39;ve had several recent chances as well to attain there own state and everytime when they got close they launched new waves of terrorism against Israel and the US.
Yup ..It&#39;s really the same war.
They want the complete destruction of Israel, and the USA for it&#39;s support of the "zionist Pigs".
One more thing..
When you say "I&#39;m for the underdog" what your really saying is that your very very uninformed on the matter. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@3 June 2003 - 23:08
All this talk of going for the underdog is ridiculous. :blink:

Look..The palistinians were offered a state way back when Israel was created.
Side By Side.
They refused, to put it lightly and swore they would drive the "Zionist Pigs" into the sea.
They&#39;ve had several recent chances as well to attain there own state and everytime when they got close they launched new waves of terrorism against Israel and the US.
Yup ..It&#39;s really the same war.
They want the complete destruction of Israel, and the USA for it&#39;s support of the "zionist Pigs".
One more thing..
When you say "I&#39;m for the underdog" what your really saying is that your very very uninformed on the matter. ;)

---

This point needs to be honed a bit.

The threat of extermination has hung over Israel since day one, and has never been renounced.

It is only the alliance with the U.S. that has enabled Israel to survive.

Here is the bookend to THAT circumstance:

Islam&#39;s interests in the U.S. are represented and promoted by many groups, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) chief amongst them.

Amid a recent statement of their goals, this tidbit:

The elimination of references to"Judeo-Christian" when describing the heritage of the United States; CAIR will push instead for "Judeo-Christian-Islamic" or "Abrahamic", which phrase to be used "in all venues where we normally talk about Judeo-Christian values, starting with the media, academia, statements by politicians, and comments made in churches, synagogues, and other places."

Note there is no mention here of "Mosques"; in Mosques, the reference is to remain "Islam(ic)" only, no inclusion of "Judeo-Christian".

CAIR Chairman Omar M. Ahmad, in a speech to a group of California Muslims in July, 1998, said "Islam isn&#39;t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."

This concerns me.......

All the politically correct talk in the world can&#39;t hide true Islam.
It&#39;s evil&#33;&#33;
I hear a lot of people(on TV and in Newspapers) who know absolutely nothing about this religion say "it&#39;s just the radical fundamentalists are ruining this great and peaceful religion".
Bull Crap&#33;
It&#39;s Pure evil from it&#39;s inception,and what we have here is a cover up of sorts as not to offend people.:devil:
It&#39;s a bunch of crap.
When someone actually gets the Koran and reads it,They will find line after blasphemous line calling for the death of everyone that is not a Muslim.
It is chock full of this and ton&#39;s of other shocking subjects as well.
I think an excellent read is about it is,yup you guessed it "The Satanic Verses"by Salmon Rushdie.
To get back to the point you were making, The Islamic faith never had anything to do with this country and hopefully never will.
It&#39;s just another attempt to rewrite a more politically correct version of history.
This is a very scary thing,and is rampant throughout our schools(in the US)from kindergarten on up to the University level
The phrase Judeo Christian is anathema to many,not just these Islamists.
Without being to prejudice to my friends on the left,let me say; that it is the left in this country that wishes to rewrite history and remove all references to God and the Judeo Christian faith.
In fact the Judeo Christian faith is under attack throughout the world as never before seen.
Christians are fast becoming some of the most hated and despised people on earth.
There&#39;s money trails to be found behind some of this too&#33;
j2, it should concern you.

Its NOT an evil religion.

The fanatics of ANY religion are as bad......I seem to recall burning crosses in the Southern States not so long ago.



The AIM of every religion is to be the only religion....thats why they have PREACHERS..to spread the religion.

The Christian Church sent thousands of people into the Americas, Africa, Far East to spread the Christian faith in the past ( and even now)

The Latter Day Saints send missionaries all over the world to spread the word of mormanism......



How is Islam any different?


The Ironic thing is Christianity has more in common with Muslims than it does with Jews......Islam recognises a guy called Jesus Christ as a prophet, even if they dont think he was the messiah, and so include his teachings as part of their religion. The Jewish faith doesnt.

The Old Testament ( which Christians share with the Jews) is not what Christianity is based upon.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Rat Faced@4 June 2003 - 23:23
...The fanatics of ANY religion are as bad......I seem to recall burning crosses in the Southern States not so long ago...

The AIM of every religion is to be the only religion....thats why they have PREACHERS..to spread the religion...

---

And I always seem to recall the Crusades. Odd, that. ;)

:ninja:

Yes but there are big differences between the two.
It&#39;s obligatory in nature to bring up the crusades.
And ridiculous to compare the Bible with the Koran.
The God of the Koran is completely different from the God of the Bible&#33;
I think you should read them before you make the usual kind of statements about it.
The Statement you make(rat face) about Christianity having more in common with Islam shows your total and complete ignorance on the subject.

Rat Face said
"The Ironic thing is Christianity has more in common with Muslims than it does with Jews......Islam recognises a guy called Jesus Christ as a prophet, even if they dont think he was the messiah, and so include his teachings as part of their religion. The Jewish faith doesnt".

Rat Faced said
"How is Islam any different"?
All I have to say is look at both cultures.
There couldn&#39;t be a bigger contrast&#33;
From the way they treat their WOMEN,to their Value system,their belief system,their laws(which btw you would find shocking)and on and on and on.
I really think you should read the Koran and see how different it is from the bible.
It&#39;s as different as night and day.
I think you&#39;ll be shocked&#33;
Oh god I think I&#39;ll puke if people start cutting and pasting quotes from the two books.
Please don&#39;t.

Just because Islam recognizes him don&#39;t mean squat.
Islam says he&#39;s a prophet but Christians say he&#39;s God Almighty in human flesh&#33;
Islam&#39;s messiah is Mohhammed, Christianity is Jesus, the Jews just believe the Messiah hasn&#39;t come just yet.
Christianity excepts the entire old testament(Jewish book and God)while rejecting the koran outright.
Really rat faced, I think you need to read at least one of the books first before you make outrageous statements like that.

These things like talking about the crusades is a weak and often used comparison.
What about today?
This is what I&#39;m talking about.
Radical Christian fundamentalists numbers are very few indeed.
What they do(blowing up abortion clinics and so on) is evil too&#33;&#33;:devil:
To compare the very small numbered and under finaced Chistian ?Fundamentalists to the BILLIONS of (hate filled for the west and jews)Muslims is ridiculous&#33;
How are they different right now?

Geography lesson -- find the Middle East on this Russian map:

http://novelhost.net/middle-east.jpg

I tried OTD, I really did.

I kept getting distracted by ah, McMurdo Station. :P

Quote:

---

Originally posted by OlderThanDirt@5 June 2003 - 02:44
Geography lesson -- find the Middle East on this Russian map:

http://novelhost.net/middle-east.jpg

---

Is that the Nile in the middle or the Strait of Gibraltar? :blink:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ClubDiggler+4 June 2003 - 22:14--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ClubDiggler @ 4 June 2003 - 22:14)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--OlderThanDirt@5 June 2003 - 02:44
Geography lesson -- find the Middle East on this Russian map:

http://novelhost.net/middle-east.jpg

---

Is that the Nile in the middle or the Strait of Gibraltar? :blink: [/b][/quote]
It&#39;s obviously the Nile; the Straits run east/west :lol: :lol:

hehe
I was looking for Antartica

What the hell.....ahh&#33;&#33; AN ASS

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@4 June 2003 - 23:55
These things like talking about the crusades is a weak and often used comparison.
What about today?
This is what I&#39;m talking about.
Radical Christian fundamentalists numbers are very few indeed.
What they do(blowing up abortion clinics and so on) is evil too&#33;&#33;:devil:
To compare the very small numbered and under finaced Chistian ?Fundamentalists to the BILLIONS of (hate filled for the west and jews)Muslims is ridiculous&#33;
How are they different right now?

---

Never mind all this crap about Christians Vs The Rest, who wants to try to explain to me why Catholics and Protestants can&#39;t get on in Northern Ireland?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@4 June 2003 - 23:55
Yes but there are big differences between the two.
It&#39;s obligatory in nature to bring up the crusades.
And ridiculous to compare the Bible with the Koran.
The God of the Koran is completely different from the God of the Bible&#33;
I think you should read them before you make the usual kind of statements about it.
The Statement you make(rat face) about Christianity having more in common with Islam shows your total and complete ignorance on the subject.

Rat Face said
"The Ironic thing is Christianity has more in common with Muslims than it does with Jews......Islam recognises a guy called Jesus Christ as a prophet, even if they dont think he was the messiah, and so include his teachings as part of their religion. The Jewish faith doesnt".

Rat Faced said
"How is Islam any different"?
All I have to say is look at both cultures.
There couldn&#39;t be a bigger contrast&#33;
From the way they treat their WOMEN,to their Value system,their belief system,their laws(which btw you would find shocking)and on and on and on.
I really think you should read the Koran and see how different it is from the bible.
It&#39;s as different as night and day.
I think you&#39;ll be shocked&#33;
Oh god I think I&#39;ll puke if people start cutting and pasting quotes from the two books.
Please don&#39;t.

Just because Islam recognizes him don&#39;t mean squat.
Islam says he&#39;s a prophet but Christians say he&#39;s God Almighty in human flesh&#33;
Islam&#39;s messiah is Mohhammed, Christianity is Jesus, the Jews just believe the Messiah hasn&#39;t come just yet.
Christianity excepts the entire old testament(Jewish book and God)while rejecting the koran outright.
Really rat faced, I think you need to read at least one of the books first before you make outrageous statements like that.

These things like talking about the crusades is a weak and often used comparison.
What about today?
This is what I&#39;m talking about.
Radical Christian fundamentalists numbers are very few indeed.
What they do(blowing up abortion clinics and so on) is evil too&#33;&#33;:devil:
To compare the very small numbered and under finaced Chistian ?Fundamentalists to the BILLIONS of (hate filled for the west and jews)Muslims is ridiculous&#33;
How are they different right now?

---

I think that the confusion arises due to the fact you are talking about &#39;Culture&#39; and im talking about &#39;Religion&#39;.



British Isles have been &#39;Christian&#39; for about 1100yrs (give or take a Century); however women have only had &#39;Rights&#39; for the last 100 years or so.

300 years ago you could go out and Rape some poor girl and your only &#39;responsibility&#39; came if she got Pregnant, or her father caught you...The Authorities werent interested unless she had a Rich father (who was more likely just to pay someone to kill you)


Our &#39;Culture&#39; has changed since then somewhat, not the Countries religion.

The Crusades are actually quite a good example, as the &#39;Culture&#39; pertaining in the Middle East is quite largely &#39;fundamental&#39;, just as the &#39;culture&#39; of the Christian countries during these times were.....the main difference being that during the Crusades (obviously) there werent any AK47s and Jumbo Jets.

If during the Crusades, the European countries had been facing a vastly superior force, they had no chance of winning, they wouldnt have went to war so openly....but the more radical people would have gone into the Middle East anyway to kill, just not with the open support of the Monarchs.


As to knowing &#39;nothing about it&#39;, then tell me YOUR interpretation of the Bible, as every Church interprets it differently (otherwise there would only be Catholic and Orthodox). I had to study Religious Education for 7 years, my Ex is a Latter Day Saint and I have very religious Friends in all 3 Religions.

I can honestly say that Im glad I place no faith in any of those 3 religions (4 if you dont class Latter Day Saint as Christian).


This is the problem with BOTH Books.......you can &#39;Prove&#39; anything in either, especially with all the mistakes in straightforward interpretation between Latin and English in the King James Bible.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by TheDave@15 June 2003 - 19:52
warning, not for the faint hearted

cant says its unbiased but look here

---

Bias aside, a typical website; doesn&#39;t add anything to the debate taking place here.

Take the pictures and add new captions; voila&#33; Pro-Israel/Anti-Palestinian.

Add your words, TheDave.

Participate in the debate, don&#39;t try to buy in with propaganda.

We want what&#39;s in your head and heart, not what you found wandering through the rhetoric. ;)

Rhetoric? Seems like clear evidence of Israeli genocide to me. Unless you consider killing children &#39;fighting terrorism&#39;.

I wonder how you would react if someone defined pictures of the holocaust as &#39;rhetoric&#39;...