The effect/affect of feminism on the American familial structure.

This is a non-sexist question. I am indeed a man but I am not taking this topic from a viewpoint of "Me man you Woman...bonk bonk...etc" You get the point.

Im looking for more on the breakdown of the family pertaining to women wanting to wait longer to have children,feeling the need to "keep up" with men in the workforce, and also how much of "sexplotation" is a result of the movement and the idea of a woman not being ashamed of her body....free love etc. What effect this has on children..with daycare...lack of parental supervision...mommy and daddy both have to leave town for business meetings and so on. Im not advocating the barefoot and pregnant scenario here. Its just a curios topic for me and I would enjoy some intelligent incite. How has this helped with the abortion movement(here political views will surely enter...I know.)
How does this effect the religious viewpoint of the man being set-up as head of the household. Feel free to bring up your own concerns/interests. Please try to show a little restraint...

Ok, you go first.

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Originally Posted by MaxOverlord

Im looking for more on the breakdown of the family pertaining to women wanting to wait longer to have children,feeling the need to "keep up" with men in the workforce, and also how much of "sexplotation" is a result of the movement and the idea of a woman not being ashamed of her body....free love etc. ........................

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1. this assumes there is a "breakdown" of the family at all.

2. this assumes women are trying to "keep up" with men in any way.

3. this assumes sexploitation has anything to do with the womens movement at all.



1. There is no "breakdown". The "family" has changed. Get over it.

2. Women (in general) aren't trying to keep up with anyone. We are simply doing. The fact that it would be nice to have equal pay and oppotunity is another story.

3. Sexploitation is not new, has always existed and is not the result of "the movement". Sexploitation is not even necessarily a problem if you take the "ploitation" part out. The idea of women as sexual beings has always frightened the patriarchy and that's why it was made taboo.

That help? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaxOverlord

Im looking for more on the breakdown of the family pertaining to women wanting to wait longer to have children,feeling the need to "keep up" with men in the workforce, and also how much of "sexplotation" is a result of the movement and the idea of a woman not being ashamed of her body....free love etc. What effect this has on children..with daycare...lack of parental supervision...mommy and daddy both have to leave town for business meetings and so on. Im not advocating the barefoot and pregnant scenario here. Its just a curios topic for me and I would enjoy some intelligent incite. How has this helped with the abortion movement(here political views will surely enter...I know.)
How does this effect the religious viewpoint of the man being set-up as head of the household. Feel free to bring up your own concerns/interests. Please try to show a little restraint...

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Feminism is pretty screwed up. But you are approaching it from the wrong direction, tbh. What you list pertains to women getting the same rights as men, so if that has affected your society adversely in any respect then there's not much point in discussing it from a "what has feminism done"- type of perspective.

It might as well be an issue of people of both genders or society not being flexible enough to compensate, if anything needed compensating. It's pretty poor planning to expect half the population to behave in the ways women were expected to.



Obviously I can't say for certain that everything I think is wrong with feminism is a problem in the US (getting back to ""screwed up"-bit).

But what I've noticed about feminism in my part of the world is this: It's fossilised into an ideology wherein it's all right to point out all the flaws men have, publically, while at the same time putting womankind on a pedestal.

And as an ideology it often seems to be pro-female in it's execution, rather than pro-equality.

As I grew up, I had several oh so lovely experiences, which I wouldn't have had if it hadn't been for feminism:

There were several instances were a teacher cited some previous research, wherein it had been discovered that girls got less attention than boys. Hence the teacher who quoted that, pledged to give girls more attention.

What happens then is that all the loud boys still get attention, as do most girls, while quiet boys don't. The problem there is that since it started out like that, it wasn't fair or balanced, as those who now didn't get any attention paid without first having seen any benefits of the old, unfair-towards-girls, ways.

One teacher decided that since women were exploited "everywhere else", her female students could bring "tasteful" pics of half-nude men and such and hang those up in our class-room. Again, the male contingent wasn't old enough to have had time to exploit much of anything.

Once, when I was about fifteen, myself and others got paid less than girls doing the same things so the girls would "know what it's like to recieve better pay than men", during a paid course (it was intended to promote an occupation, so I guess they saw enticing us into taking the course by paying us for it as an investment).

Basically, a lot of bad things men had done were pointed out, and if possibly corrected, in interesting ways, during my formative years, in school.

For a while I felt guilty, 'cos it seemed as if it was impossible to be male and not oppress females. I never actually did anything oppressive, but all men did anyway, the way it seemed.

Sometimes one might have wondered if one was inferior to women as well, seeing as how there was all this new fantastic research about how great women were. Women see the whole picture, men get stuck on details. Women have a much better connection between the halves of their brains, than men. And so on.

And later, as an adult, I saw a politician stand up and suggest that there should be an extra tax for all men to pay for the care of abused and battered women. Apparently we all, somehow, share responsibility for that.

Even all that whining about female bosses making less money than male bosses, and stuff like it, pisses me off today. There are people sleeping on the streets even here, ffs, who the fuck cares more about whether some female executive can't buy as expensive a porsche as a male one, then?


In short, feminism, from the perspective I've seen it, promoted and still promotes alienation between genders, and it lead to injustice in the name of justice. It was the sort of thing that may create a counterreaction, thus promoting misogynism in turn.


EDit: A long post, feminism makes me angry.

EDit: To clarify, from my perspective, it may have contributed to screwing up half my generation by giving us a warped image of what the world is like (assuming more men are like me), that's the effect of feminism. And that in turn ought to have some sort of effect on familial structures.

No Bluniverse it didnt because you became automatically emotional. I asked for calm discussion not huffing and puffing. the family has changed..agreed.
why? woman as sexual beings is an all too typical response. i would like to know what you think..not as a woman..and im assuming you are one but as an individual. Im all for woman having equal pay and so on in the work force. If youve got the brains you should get the pay..no? That being said. You assumed all of the questions i asked. I didnt say they were true but i knew i would get responses by posting them....thank you.

To echo Snee's sentiment, I also believe feminism has knee-capped it's own effectiveness by creating attitudes and stances which seek compensatory treatment rather than true equality, and fail to countenance real and insurmountable gender differences.

On another tack, it is only natural women desire equality, but feminism nominally fails to account for many of it's effects; as an example, much of "modern" feminism has it's roots in the move away from agrarian society and the onset of urban migration.

In the former, extra bodies (children) are an asset to the common cause of the family, and generally led to increased prosperity.

In the urban setting, competition for work and space begat the trend toward smaller families, and procreation became more a matter of choice than a compelling need.

Feminism in it's current incarnation springs from this.

Women are progressing in their endeavor for....more (for lack of a better term), and men are progressing as well insofar as they are "unlearning" behaviors which have come to be considered as subjugating and repressing women.

Women are not yet where they want to be, though, and the effect of all this feminism is the steady diminution of the American population; one can hardly overlook the obvious fact that continued dissemination of American ideals and trends could lead to the end of human life on this earth.

No wonder the Chinese have such an insular society.

This may be in bad taste but I'll do it anyway.
I've heard that Gloria Steinem became pregnant just so she could have
an abortion.
My own made-up joke....not bad tho'

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Originally Posted by MaxOverlord

This may be in bad taste but I'll do it anyway.
I've heard that Gloria Steinem became pregnant just so she could have
an abortion.

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What an incredibly uncharitable and gratuitous story. :naughty:

My ex-brother-in-law used to drive limousine for the Marriott Marquis in Atlanta, and once was charged with the task of retrieving Ms. Steinem from Hartsfield to the hotel.

He swore the woman never touched him or spoke to him, but said that afterward his neck was bleeding and his testicles ached.

I know one thing. Hillary is "proud to be running as a woman for president."
I know something else. Bill is salivating over another "term." Hillary said she can only imagine what she will find under the rugs in the oval office. I'll bet her husbands semen will be one. There was quite a bit of "De-briefing" going on in there for sure.

P.S watch out for Gore. All this Global Warming is just
a charge to get his neo-lib,blogosphere cooks going.
P.S.S I couldn't help myself. For shame.....

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Originally Posted by MaxOverlord

I couldn't help myself. For shame.....

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Indeed.

Looking back, I can see your original topic in the far distance...:dabs:

I was referring to the "as a woman" comment. It seems anytime a woman comes into some considerable amount of power we have to bow and say "oh my,how wonderful of her,taking on the burden of sooo many women." Its only a topic because people keep drumming it up.
When will enough women in enough power situations be enough for feminists to say..."well,now what the hell are we gonna do?"....enter...."theres a whale stranded on the beach and I think its because their migratory patterns have been upset by that eyesore of an offshore oil well."..."lets get some signs girls!" I'm quite tired of Oh my God! Look who has achieved! Most never equate this to America.
Its usually "we've got a long way to go...never...."we've come so far."

I think a lot of it depends on which effect (on the American Family) you want to focus on.

I can understand a lot of the observances/experiences/feelings expressed in these posts. Sometimes it doesn't seem fair and it seems things have tilted too far the other direction.

MaxOverlord, I think the problem may be with the type of human beings you have been around...whether they are male or female doesn't matter. A position of power is only a position of higher responsibility and anyone that abuses that or 'Lords' it over others abuses that power...regardless of their sex.

Equal pay for equal performance is only fair. Gender shouldn't have anything to do with that.

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Originally Posted by Everose

I think a lot of it depends on which effect (on the American Family) you want to focus on.

I can understand a lot of the observances/experiences/feelings expressed in these posts. Sometimes it doesn't seem fair and it seems things have tilted too far the other direction.

MaxOverlord, I think the problem may be with the type of human beings you have been around...whether they are male or female doesn't matter. A position of power is only a position of higher responsibility and anyone that abuses that or 'Lords' it over others abuses that power...regardless of their sex.

Equal pay for equal performance is only fair. Gender shouldn't have anything to do with that.

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I think that sums up my feelings on the subject. That is all my wife will allow me to say.:(


Hi Rose.:)

Everose. Hows about the feminist's movement affect on abortion rates?

In that the back alley is no longer the preferred location?

Edit: "Free love" was more a result of the invention of the birth control pill than it had anything to do with "sexploitation." It doesn't seem as though there is an actual question to this topic... are you hoping for a pre-made term paper? BTW, abortion reduces crime.

:shuriken:

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Originally Posted by MagicNakor

are you hoping for a pre-made term paper? BTW, abortion reduces crime.

:shuriken:

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I wasn't aware that you actually knew who I was. I am referring to your term paper question. Second, your abortion reduces crime is by far the most Powerful justification of abortion I have ever heard. Bravo!

I would also like to add in my opinion the murder rate goes Up.

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Originally Posted by MagicNakor

abortion reduces crime.
:shuriken:

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Originally Posted by MaxOverlord

I would also like to add in my opinion the murder rate goes Up.

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Which point is invalid, according to most feminists.

I guess it's all down to whose wishes/ends are being served. :huh:

:D Hi Bigboab! I bet your wife has a wonderful sense of humor, too :lol:

MaxOverlord....I really don't know the real effect feminism has had on abortion rates. I find it hard to believe that the coat hanger abortions were really that well documented though.

I have been really paying attention to what seems to be an excess of male bashing going on. The first thing I had to do was stop myself from doing it. At first it was fun. I think I was able to release a lot of anger at my spouse in a pretty tame way by passing on male bashing jokes. After awhile it just started making me feel kind of yucky because tbh, I see people as people and do not treat anyone worse or better because of the body they were born with.

It is almost like when a relationships ends...people often strike out at the whole opposite sex. Somehow we jump right from 'He/she really did me wrong' to 'guys/girls really do us wrong.' And of course, that totally bypasses any personal responsibility for the relationship failing. ;-)

I know we women can be cruel just like men can be cruel. I guess what I am trying to remember is take it person by person and just avoid the cruel ones.

And btw, I still read male bashing jokes and I still laugh at them. :ph34r: I just feel a twinge of guilt now when I laugh because I really do know they do not always hold truths or fit the majority of males.

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Originally Posted by Everose

:D Hi Bigboab! I bet your wife has a wonderful sense of humor, too :lol:

MaxOverlord....I really don't know the real effect feminism has had on abortion rates. I find it hard to believe that the coat hanger abortions were really that well documented though.

I have been really paying attention to what seems to be an excess of male bashing going on. The first thing I had to do was stop myself from doing it. At first it was fun. I think I was able to release a lot of anger at my spouse in a pretty tame way by passing on male bashing jokes. After awhile it just started making me feel kind of yucky because tbh, I see people as people and do not treat anyone worse or better because of the body they were born with.

It is almost like when a relationships ends...people often strike out at the whole opposite sex. Somehow we jump right from 'He/she really did me wrong' to 'guys/girls really do us wrong.' And of course, that totally bypasses any personal responsibility for the relationship failing. ;-)

I know we women can be cruel just like men can be cruel. I guess what I am trying to remember is take it person by person and just avoid the cruel ones.

And btw, I still read male bashing jokes and I still laugh at them. :ph34r: I just feel a twinge of guilt now when I laugh because I really do know they do not always hold truths or fit the majority of males.

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I'm glad you still enjoy your jokes. I personally don't have any rules when it comes to humor unless it puts someones life in danger. I think you hit on something when you mentioned by-passing personal responsibility. I think the expression(verbally and physically) of feminism has helped women avoid personal responsibility.

A lot of things women do today can be placed under the guise of "free expression" of traits that I feel are largely feministic is quality as well as quantity. I saw an actress(the women from Judging Amy) at a feminism rally with a tee-shirt that read..This is what a Feminist looks like....Whatever. She can wear her shirt. What bothers me is her point for the rally and her shirt was she was proud of the fact she had had an abortion..ie feministic expression. I hope the quantity is only 1..the quality is disgusting. Anyway.

Women expressing their freedoms is great and I'm all for it. When the idea that because you've had an abortion is the reason for your liberated approach is another thing. This in my opinion is the exact opposite of freedom. Freedom does not equal death. Freedom is the expression Of life.... not the other way around.

I think the thing to remember is all women aren't this way.

Many women have had abortions and take personal responsibility for the choice they made.

I would think that not many brag about it.

Sometimes I wonder at the difference in the killing of a fetus and the killing in war.

Since i am not american, nor my wife, therefore i am not permitted according to the laws of on topicidness, to insert my opinion in this thread.
sorry.

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Originally Posted by 100%

Since i am not american, nor my wife, therefore i am not permitted according to the laws of on topicidness, to insert my opinion in this thread.
sorry.

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Dear Zed-

As it appears this thread has gone begging for lack of recent input, please disregard your prior understanding of applicable decorum(s).

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 100%

Since i am not american, nor my wife, therefore i am not permitted according to the laws of on topicidness, to insert my opinion in this thread.
sorry.

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Dear Zed-

As it appears this thread has gone begging for lack of recent input, please disregard your prior understanding of applicable decorum(s).

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Indeed. Thank God for Everose. Keeping my sad wittle thread Alive!!!
No pun intended.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bluniverse

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaxOverlord

Im looking for more on the breakdown of the family pertaining to women wanting to wait longer to have children,feeling the need to "keep up" with men in the workforce, and also how much of "sexplotation" is a result of the movement and the idea of a woman not being ashamed of her body....free love etc. ........................

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1. this assumes there is a "breakdown" of the family at all.

2. this assumes women are trying to "keep up" with men in any way.

3. this assumes sexploitation has anything to do with the womens movement at all.



1. There is no "breakdown". The "family" has changed. Get over it.

2. Women (in general) aren't trying to keep up with anyone. We are simply doing. The fact that it would be nice to have equal pay and oppotunity is another story.

3. Sexploitation is not new, has always existed and is not the result of "the movement". Sexploitation is not even necessarily a problem if you take the "ploitation" part out. The idea of women as sexual beings has always frightened the patriarchy and that's why it was made taboo.

That help? ;)

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Brilliant post Bluiverse, clear, unemotional; a female view of life in America..