I would just like to know peoples opinions.
Personally, i think they are bad, and cause nothing but hurt, pain, agression and sadness.
And what about everyone else?
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I would just like to know peoples opinions.
Personally, i think they are bad, and cause nothing but hurt, pain, agression and sadness.
And what about everyone else?
I, as an avid sportsman do not experiene these things, then again i have taken steps in the proper handling of guns so as not to. now these people who just by guns to "protect" their family and just put it under their pillow, or because their favorite music personality portrays an image of being cool by having one, well those are a different matter. and before i get flamed for my liking of the hunt, please understand it is more than just killing an animal, but it is a chance to truely enjoy nature in a way the majority of people never have the chance to do.
p.s., don't automobiles cause more hurt, pain, aggresion, and sadness on a daily basis?
A gun is only as bad as the person using it. Guns dont kill people, people kill people.
Bad. Someone could lose an eye.
Check out Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine if you haven't already.
excellent film that would make anyone see the horrors of weapons.Quote:
Originally posted by chalice@5 June 2003 - 12:37
Check out Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine if you haven't already.
I reccomend it to anyone.
but it only needs a second to kill someone you cant change your mind if you kill someoneQuote:
Originally posted by Infested Cats@5 June 2003 - 12:37
A gun is only as bad as the person using it. Guns dont kill people, people kill people.
and we'll all get that thought sometime in our lives
if they are only being used to hurt or kill, from my point of view they are bad.
Recreational shooting is ok cos nothings actually being killed.
Still doesn't mean i like guns tho, whether they're good or bad.
ever thought about the polution the lead brings into it's enviroment ;)Quote:
Originally posted by WeeMouse@5 June 2003 - 14:58
Recreational shooting is ok cos nothings actually being killed.
weemouse (and everyone else!), do you agree with me, tho, that they are produced only for the express purpose to destroy? ( said this in censorship thread btw!!)
Guns are weapons that are made to destroy..
As long as the only thing that gets shot at is a big paper target then let them have their guns, but I would much prefer it if there were no guns.
Somebody's probably gonna say now "WeeMouse, you do archery and the longbow was made to destroy."
That is true, but all longbow archery in the UK is done using big straw targets. Bow-hunting in the Uk is illegal, as is the wielding of a readied bow outside of an official shooting ground.
And I have never seen a gang hanging about a street corner holding a longbow and arrows. :lol:
in america there is a huge collection of bow hunters
Well, you had a point until you meandered into illogic with cars. This is like highschool level thinking, at best.Quote:
Originally posted by Tikibonbon@5 June 2003 - 13:36
I, as an avid sportsman do not experiene these things, then again i have taken steps in the proper handling of guns so as not to. now these people who just by guns to "protect" their family and just put it under their pillow, or because their favorite music personality portrays an image of being cool by having one, well those are a different matter. and before i get flamed for my liking of the hunt, please understand it is more than just killing an animal, but it is a chance to truely enjoy nature in a way the majority of people never have the chance to do.
p.s., don't automobiles cause more hurt, pain, aggresion, and sadness on a daily basis?
If you have a valid argument, present it and let the chips fall where they may, don't grasp at straw horses to justify yourself, it degrades credibility.
My theory is this. If I really have to explain the difference to you, between guns and cars, then I have just wasted my time, as you just don't "get it".
I believe that most people who present this argument are engaging in "intellectual dishonesty". They use this to justify, to others, their behavior, knowing full well the fallacy in logic. These people irritate me.
BTW, you'd better get going, it is a long walk to work.
Why do I bother.Guns are also produced for and with protection in mind.
If we didnt need protection we wouldnt need guns.
thanks hobbes.Quote:
Originally posted by hobbes@5 June 2003 - 13:15
If you have a valid argument, present it and let the chips fall where they may, don't grasp at straw horses to justify yourself, it degrades credibility.
My theory is this. If I really have to explain the difference to you, between guns and cars, then I have just wasted my time, as you just don't "get it".
I believe that most people who present this argument are engaging in "intellectual dishonesty". They use this to justify, to others, their behavior, knowing full well the fallacy in logic. These people irritate me.
BTW, you'd better get going, it is a long walk to work.
I think of course there is room for intelligent debate here, but it is relatively simple, to me, even a child can see it, and i hope they do, because it is them (and their mentality) that i think we need to mould, to stop this madness at the moment.
Start with the big companies, more and more education in school.....
and well, the US could go a long way by making the "first step", so to speak, in actually making a move and doing something.
sorry to offend you there sir, hate for us "intellectually dishonesty" folk to impede on your life. anyway i'm just saying that, those feeling by caused people being shot on purpose, accident, or what have you. say your friend had an accident and was shot, would you be anyless hurt, pained or sad if they died in a car accident? no, because your friend is gone. but, more people are killed in auto accidents by far each year than by guns, but we come down hard on guns while maintaining a full tank of gas at all times.
btw: the topic starter asked for opinions, so if you want to lambast me for having an opinion, the problem lies not with me.
if you want a gun get an airgun they are fun and its really hard to kill someone with. i can hit a can with a g10 from 20 metres. (just wanted to brag but the opportunity never came-up so i did it luncheon meat stylee)
but wont less people die if there are less guns?
isnt that better for society, and indeed the world, as a whole?
the problem is. when one person has a gun they are more powerful than his nieghbours/rivals/whatever so then they need a gun and it just snowballs. the police should be working to take them off the streets
Yes ,in a perfect world though.Quote:
Originally posted by crazy_billy_bats@5 June 2003 - 14:26
but wont less people die if there are less guns?
isnt that better for society, and indeed the world, as a whole?
i dont think this would make it perfect as such, more a world where there are less deaths, people would still destroy eachother, but nowhere near on the scale of nowadays. therefore, a much much better world IMOQuote:
Originally posted by nahan@5 June 2003 - 13:30
Yes ,in a perfect world though.
its sad that this would just take.....decades, i suppose people??
Hobbes,
haven't you wasted your time anyway by scrutinising Tikibonbon's logic?
Billy's original query was a very straightfoward one... Guns- Good or bad.
Now Tik's closing statement may have been forgivably naive but at least he posted on topic.
It serves no purpose in this argument to highlight another member's well-intentioned mistakes
So what's it gonna be Hobbes, good or bad?
I appreciate your skills as a debator but don't you think that your response was rather pedantic?
condoms are for protections... guns only shoot holes in them... away your protection...Quote:
Originally posted by nahan@5 June 2003 - 15:19
Why do I bother.Guns are also produced for and with protection in mind.
If we didnt need protection we wouldnt need guns.
the only good gun is a water pistol
btw there was some sense in the remark of Infested cats... guns don't kill people people kill people..
to bad it guns make it for some people more easy...
im glad im not alone in my views....
we may have hope yet to rid this world of these disgusting weapons.
then again, maybe there is no hope, as thousands of these things are being produced and sold(by governments as well i might add, as im sure you are all aware) every day.
time will tell, i suppose.
In people under 20 in the US, gun related death is the second biggest killer to car accidents and in some states gun related deaths actually exceed car accidents.
i dont think this would make it perfect as such, more a world where there are less deaths, people would still destroy eachother, but nowhere near on the scale of nowadays. therefore, a much much better world IMOQuote:
Originally posted by crazy_billy_bats+5 June 2003 - 14:33--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (crazy_billy_bats @ 5 June 2003 - 14:33)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--nahan@5 June 2003 - 13:30
Yes ,in a perfect world though.
its sad that this would just take.....decades, i suppose people?? [/b][/quote]
If there was no guns then some other wepon would be substituted.
For those who only wish harm on others.
Yes ,in a perfect world though. [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by nahan+5 June 2003 - 07:30--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nahan @ 5 June 2003 - 07:30)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--crazy_billy_bats@5 June 2003 - 14:26
but wont less people die if there are less guns?
isnt that better for society, and indeed the world, as a whole?
My suggestion would be, until we achieve that perfect world, make all guns look like this...
http://www.aardsy.com/pics/pic298.jpg
Maybe people would think twice about whipping this out... :P
My suggestion would be, until we achieve that perfect world, make all guns look like this...Quote:
Originally posted by clocker+5 June 2003 - 13:38--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 5 June 2003 - 13:38)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by -nahan@5 June 2003 - 07:30
<!--QuoteBegin--crazy_billy_bats
Quote:
@5 June 2003 - 14:26
but wont less people die if there are less guns?
isnt that better for society, and indeed the world, as a whole?
Yes ,in a perfect world though.
http://www.aardsy.com/pics/pic298.jpg
Maybe people would think twice about whipping this out... :P [/b][/quote]
:lol:
need a bit of light-heartedness....
i agree, that would be ok !!
but well, it isnt an ideal world is it?
there are simply too many guns and too many idiots that dont know what to do with them (ie - throw them in the bin or decommision them, as im sure if u put it in your bin someone would take it and use it)
blame the media, havent you all seen bowling for columbine
And in how many of these cases were drugs and alcohol invovled.Quote:
Originally posted by ilw@5 June 2003 - 14:36
In people under 20 in the US, gun related death is the second biggest killer to car accidents and in some states gun related deaths actually exceed car accidents.
Directly and indirectly.
And in how many of these cases were drugs and alcohol invovled.Quote:
Originally posted by nahan+5 June 2003 - 15:44--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nahan @ 5 June 2003 - 15:44)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ilw@5 June 2003 - 14:36
In people under 20 in the US, gun related death is the second biggest killer to car accidents and in some states gun related deaths actually exceed car accidents.
Directly and indirectly. [/b][/quote]
But the question is would they have done it that easy if the y hadn't have a gun within reach of hand...
If you don't have a gun you can't shoot... !
:lol:Quote:
Originally posted by crazy_billy_bats+5 June 2003 - 07:41--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (crazy_billy_bats @ 5 June 2003 - 07:41)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by -clocker@5 June 2003 - 13:38
Quote:
Originally posted by -nahan@5 June 2003 - 07:30
<!--QuoteBegin--crazy_billy_bats
Quote:
Quote:
@5 June 2003 - 14:26
but wont less people die if there are less guns?
isnt that better for society, and indeed the world, as a whole?
Yes ,in a perfect world though.
My suggestion would be, until we achieve that perfect world, make all guns look like this...
http://www.aardsy.com/pics/pic298.jpg
Maybe people would think twice about whipping this out... :P
need a bit of light-heartedness....
i agree, that would be ok !!
but well, it isnt an ideal world is it?
there are simply too many guns and too many idiots that dont know what to do with them (ie - throw them in the bin or decommision them, as im sure if u put it in your bin someone would take it and use it) [/b][/quote]
I wasn't being light-hearted.
I was serious.
If guns looked silly/embarrassing instead of like something that the Terminator would brandish, I think they'd lose a lot of their appeal.
well ok then, dont post a picture of a penis-shaped gun next time then please.Quote:
Originally posted by clocker@5 June 2003 - 13:52
I wasn't being light-hearted.
I was serious.
If guns looked silly/embarrassing instead of like something that the Terminator would brandish, I think they'd lose a lot of their appeal.
i consider that, including the line
"Maybe people would think twice about whipping this out... :P "
light hearted.
This is like saying knives are bad and should be banned.
This is as simply as it can be put at the moment......how can anyone argue against that?Quote:
Originally posted by jetje@5 June 2003 - 13:51
But the question is would they have done it that easy if the y hadn't have a gun within reach of hand...
If you don't have a gun you can't shoot... !
cant everyone just admit that they are bad?
it is plainly obvious to me, why not to others, regardless of what country they come from?!
They are equally good .
Why not post a picture of the penis gun?Quote:
Originally posted by crazy_billy_bats@5 June 2003 - 07:55
well ok then, dont post a picture of a penis-shaped gun next time then please.
i consider that, including the line
"Maybe people would think twice about whipping this out... :P "
light hearted.
Do you find it more offensive than Nahan's sigpic?
"maybe people would think twice about whipping this out... :P " is not light-hearted, it's true.
Do you think that if this
http://shop.innercite.com/giftsdirec...checked_lg.jpg
fired bullets, that Nahan would have it featured as his signature along with the phrase "Llook at me"?
I don't.
no i said i didnt find it offensive i found it light-hearted.Quote:
Originally posted by clocker@5 June 2003 - 14:26
Do you find it more offensive than Nahan's sigpic?
anyway i dont think your contribution had much to say about the serious topic that is gun-culture nowadays.
Penis-shaped guns are a ridiculous alternative to normal guns (if it was an alternative you were proposing), and can only be seen as some form of a joke, however not being funny in the slightest.
a (normal) alternative to me is to have no guns at all, never mind penis-shaped ones, then no one would have the stigma that surrounds producing a weapon shaped like male genetalia.
or not as many people would be dead.
but then again, maybe you were just joking.
CBB,
You insist on missing the point don't you?
I think that a big part of the love affair with weaponry is that it looks so damn cool. There is a lot of testosterone and macho posturing tied up in waving around a weapon that looks just like James Bond's.
If guns looked like penises or Raggety Ann then this component of the attraction would be gone.
See?
no i dont insist on missing anything, sorry to dissapoint you.Quote:
Originally posted by clocker@5 June 2003 - 14:47
CBB,
You insist on missing the point don't you?
I think that a big part of the love affair with weaponry is that it looks so damn cool. There is a lot of testosterone and macho posturing tied up in waving around a weapon that looks just like James Bond's.
If guns looked like penises or Raggety Ann then this component of the attraction would be gone.
See?
i agree of course the attraction of holding a weapon etc is a big part of it, however there was still no need to post a picture of a penis shaped gun.
you could have made this point much earlier, but insisted in continuing on, frankly being quite rude to me (again).
oh well id rather go and talk about something else now, i dont want to argue with u, i would rather talk about the real implications of guns rather than their shape or the machoness that surrounds them.
to me, a more valid point is that we need to go to the companies that produce the weapons, start there, we have to start somewhere.
does no one else think that it is possible (some way)to try and bring down the huge weapons-producing companies?
i would like to hear ways as im not sure myself!!!