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Just so.... :lol: :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally posted by TheDave@15 June 2003 - 19:20
i bow down to you, oh one of long non sensicle words :rolleyes:
C'mon, man, let's have a bier.....behr....er, brrr-
How's a shot sound?
I'll buy- ;)
What the world thinks of America - The BBC has asked the world to vote for the greatest American ever and the people that got the top votes are now in the top 10 list. BBC GREATEST AMERICAN
So what does the world really think of America. With nearly 50percent of the votes is Homer Simpson ahead of the great Abraham Lincoln who is second and MR T (BA BARACUS) is in fourth place lmao :D
Cant wait to see this program on BBC2 on 17th June. Hope MR T gets up into second lol
The least-informed person in this forum would qualify for "oracle" status when compared to your average industrialized earthling. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by nc123@15 June 2003 - 20:56
What the world thinks of America - The BBC has asked the world to vote for the greatest American ever and the people that got the top votes are now in the top 10 list. BBC GREATEST AMERICAN
So what does the world really think of America. With nearly 50percent of the votes is Homer Simpson ahead of the great Abraham Lincoln who is second and MR T (BA BARACUS) is in fourth place lmao :D
Cant wait to see this program on BBC2 on 17th June. Hope MR T gets up into second lol
Mr. T?
Mr.T?
When the results of this poll are released I'm going to permanently store them in my clipboard.
The next time someone makes a snide comment about "stupid yank" or "ignorant American" I'll have the perfect response at hand.
Mr.T.....sigh
But he's saved us so much money when calling collect.
:ninja:
My God, I didn't realize that European TV had been inflicted with those ads.Quote:
Originally posted by MagicNakor@15 June 2003 - 21:43
But he's saved us so much money when calling collect.
:ninja:
I thought he was being lionized for his acting skills.
It is with regret I note none of our forum members received any votes, alas.... :(Quote:
Originally posted by nc123@15 June 2003 - 20:56
What the world thinks of America - The BBC has asked the world to vote for the greatest American ever and the people that got the top votes are now in the top 10 list. BBC GREATEST AMERICAN
So what does the world really think of America. With nearly 50percent of the votes is Homer Simpson ahead of the great Abraham Lincoln who is second and MR T (BA BARACUS) is in fourth place lmao :D
Cant wait to see this program on BBC2 on 17th June. Hope MR T gets up into second lol
"Once again, ye know them not, as ye soweth wisdom upon asses..."* :D
*used with permission. :lol:
My God, I didn't realize that European TV had been inflicted with those ads.Quote:
Originally posted by clocker+15 June 2003 - 22:47--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 15 June 2003 - 22:47)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MagicNakor@15 June 2003 - 21:43
But he's saved us so much money when calling collect.
:ninja:
I thought he was being lionized for his acting skills. [/b][/quote]
No-
They got him cheap, I hear-they coaxed him away from the buffet at "Big Boy", and the rest is history! :D
This is all really no big surprise. Of course most of the world is going to hate us, and rightly so. We are constantly sticking our noses in things that are none of our business. If a country asks for our help, it's one thing, but to go around acting as if we are the "parents" of this world dealing with unruly teenagers is wrong.
Pushing our false democracy - which is actually a fascist-like gov't - on other countries is no different than the Christian Crusades or any other religious battles in which one religious group fights the world in hopes of converting all inhabitants to it's beliefs. What's the difference? There is none.
The U.S. goal has always been to convert the world to democracy, and hence our way of thinking. We never take into account that maybe this isn't what these countries want... and maybe we are successful at being greedy and making money, but we truly suck at keeping any real morality.
And as for Muslim countries, most of them are third world countries that the Western world seeks to control. If you are on the receiving end of a bully's fist, you cower in fear... we are the bully, and I believe their reaction is normal and warranted.
As some of you have already pointed out, also, America talks big sh*t about freedom of speech and all, but it is a false freedom. We are just as brainwashed by the propaganda machine as those Muslim countries are. Our media tells us what we want to hear or what's interesting... but rarely do you hear anything substantially bad that our country does. If it is bad press for America, we never get to hear about it. And, when it comes to war, we are told only what the gov't releases to the press, it certainly doesn't make it true.
To the other Americans out there, if you think the media reports mostly truth or that our gov't is going to be honest about what it is REALLY up to, then wake up from the dream because you've been highly brainwashed by the machine.
My point in general, I don't blame those countries. I hate it here too... and I know our gov't is B.S., but it has done such a supreme job of brainwashing us into believing it's the best gov't on Earth that not many are willing to question it's authority. You have to be willing to think outside of the lines, and I don't think America has enough of an imagination to do that... not at this point.
For an opinion on the lie that is America,
Look here
Find the book if you have the guts to take a real long, hard look at our lovely gov't... How To Overthrow The Government by Arianna Huffington
I just voted for Martin Luther, but its gonna take a lot of votes for Homer not to win <_<
Spoken like a true "unruly teenager", angellynn26.Quote:
Originally posted by angellynn26@16 June 2003 - 14:17
This is all really no big surprise. Of course most of the world is going to hate us, and rightly so. We are constantly sticking our noses in things that are none of our business. If a country asks for our help, it's one thing, but to go around acting as if we are the "parents" of this world dealing with unruly teenagers is wrong. Pushing our false democracy - which is actually a fascist gov't - on other countries is no different than the Christian Crusades or any other religious battles in which one religious group fights the world in hopes of converting all inhabitants to it's beliefs. What's the difference? There is none. The U.S. goal has always been to convert the world to democracy, and hence our way of thinking. We never take into account that maybe this isn't what these countries want... and maybe we are successful at being greedy and making money, but we truly suck at keeping any real morality. And as for Muslim countries, most of them are third world countries that the Western world seeks to control. If you are on the receiving end of a bully's fist, you cower in fear... we are the bully, and I believe their reaction is normal and warranted. As some of you have already pointed out, also, America talks big sh*t about freedom of speech and all, but it is a false freedom. We are just as brainwashed by the propaganda machine as those Muslim countries are. Our media tells us what we want to hear or what's interesting... but rarely do you hear anything substantially bad that our country does. If it is bad press for America, we never get to hear about it. And, when it comes to war, we are told only what the gov't releases to the press, it certainly doesn't make it true. To the other Americans out there, if you think the media reports mostly truth or that our gov't is going to be honest about what it is REALLY up to, then wake up from the dream because you've been highly brainwashed by the machine. My point in general, I don't blame those countries. I hate it here too... and I know our gov't is B.S., but it has done such a supreme job of brainwashing us into believing it's the best gov't on Earth that not many are willing to question it's authority. You have to be willing to think outside of the lines, and I don't think America has enough of an imagination to do that... not at this point.
For some real information on the lie that is America,
Look here
Find the book if you have the guts to take a real long, hard look at our lovely gov't... How To Overthrow The Government by Arianna Huffington
Arianna Huffington, eh? Isn't she the gal who married that homosexual Republican rep Michael Huffington, then became embittered when he "came out"? She's become the new darling of the Libs now that she hates SUVs and she apparently has cornered the market on "truth".
I would characterize her as an extremely high-rent social-climber in the mold of an ersatz Zsa Zsa Gabor-she's got the accent down.
You'll find we don't allow our rabble to be roused so easily.
Do you know what a Fascist government really is?
Not the rhetorical "Fascist" government of your anti-Bush liberalism, but true Fascism?
Forgive me, but before you began posting here, were you riding in the back of a turnip truck? Perhaps not holding on too tightly?
Such phrases should not be thrown around so cheaply, as you will learn if you persist with this sort of screeching, scatter-shot approach you seem to favor.
Don't get offended or huffy now; I promise-it won't help.
Of course, if you would like to try our wading pool.......
j2k4 ~
Listen, junior, I certainly don't need any lessons from you on how I should be acting. Your behavior is by no means a stellar example. You are entitled to have whatever opinion you want. However, it would be nice if you would find something more constructive to say.
What is your point in following me around posting rudeness directed at me? It is obvious you are personally offended by my opinions. You need to take a pill or something because I did not direct anything towards you.
Please, do not pretend you are intelligent by replying with moronic logic, finger pointing, name calling, or inconclusive/vague statements. Have some actual facts to back yourself up. Again, I would like to point out that the statement I made is my own personal opinion. Don't like it? Goodie for you, but it does not warrant the rudeness you are exhibiting. I'm sure you have issues with putting others down to make yourself feel better, but I really think you should keep your self-esteem issues to yourself.
Please, don't get offended or huffy now, I promise - you have already done that.
*edit*
BTW... wading pool? I'm sorry, but the lounge lovers can keep it... not my style.
You missed out the unnecessary use of 55 letter words which he assumes no one else understands. :lol:Quote:
Please, do not pretend you are intelligent by replying with moronic logic, finger pointing, name calling, or inconclusive/vague statements.
:lol: :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally posted by evilbagpuss@17 June 2003 - 07:26
You missed out the unnecessary use of 55 letter words which he assumes no one else understands. :lol:Quote:
Please, do not pretend you are intelligent by replying with moronic logic, finger pointing, name calling, or inconclusive/vague statements.
Who is the greatest American?
Bill Clinton
Bob Dylan
Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Jefferson
Martin Luther King Jnr
Abraham Lincoln
Franklin D Roosevelt
Homer Simpson
Mr T
George Washington
This list is nonsense!
How come you can't vote for exactly who you want?
Is the world that resentful of our successes that they have to stoop to this level?
My vote is for this guy
http://www.puresportsart.com/warehou...evel99pg-1.jpg
Yup, that's right, Evil Knievel.
He's 70 years old or so and he has come out of retirement to make another record breaking jump.
S&A :: the BBC poll said that the options listed had been taken from an earlier nomination process [although i don't know what that entailed]
so that is why the list they are using is as it is
my nominations for greatest US american, however, would include;
http://www.biconews.com/ezimagecatal...14-200x200.jpg
&http://www.publicenemy.com/soldiers/...ucksoldier.jpg
&http://www.fib.se/chomsky.jpg
&http://www.biologicshow.com/images/johnny_knoxville.jpg
&http://www.inform.umd.edu/nowandthen...mandkermit.jpg
&http://www.planet-mag.com/specialiss...franti(sf).jpg
[sorry the pics are such different sizes]
Junior? Hmmmmm...Thanks!Quote:
Originally posted by angellynn26@17 June 2003 - 02:10
j2k4 ~
Listen, junior, I certainly don't need any lessons from you on how I should be acting. Your behavior is by no means a stellar example. You are entitled to have whatever opinion you want. However, it would be nice if you would find something more constructive to say.
What is your point in following me around posting rudeness directed at me? It is obvious you are personally offended by my opinions. You need to take a pill or something because I did not direct anything towards you.
Please, do not pretend you are intelligent by replying with moronic logic, finger pointing, name calling, or inconclusive/vague statements. Have some actual facts to back yourself up. Again, I would like to point out that the statement I made is my own personal opinion. Don't like it? Goodie for you, but it does not warrant the rudeness you are exhibiting. I'm sure you have issues with putting others down to make yourself feel better, but I really think you should keep your self-esteem issues to yourself.
Please, don't get offended or huffy now, I promise - you have already done that.
*edit*
BTW... wading pool? I'm sorry, but the lounge lovers can keep it... not my style.
I have no quarrel with your actions; your expressions are another matter.
I don't offer lessons; I learn them. You have none to offer me.
I AM entitled, as you say, to my opinion.
I make no claim as to the constructiveness of my frothings; they are simply my interpretations, however, if called upon to back them up, I'm up to the task-I don't drop bombs and then cry wolf and call names when people disagree with me.
As far as whom is following whom around, I will state this is my stomping ground-in every thread where we've butted heads (save one) I've been there first, and since you don't own the board, I felt free to respond and disagree.
If you perceive me as rude, I hereby offer a standing apology for past and future offenses.
I am not, however, offended at your offerings of opinion, and don't feel "targeted" by your posting of them.
Let's see, what else?
Logic is logic; it is immune to your characterization as "moronic".
Be advised; finger-pointing is difficult to prove in this medium.
Whatever other faults my statements suffer, vagueness and inconclusivity are not among them, of this I am sure.
I base everything I say on FACT-trouble being, I gather MY facts from everywhere, and so don't post or rely on "links" to prove my points-I use MY discretion, as I have honed it to a keen edge, and trust it implicitly. If YOU need to Google everything, feel free, if you are diligent and honest in your efforts, you can find my sources, but you probably would have difficulty digesting good information.
I put nobody down, including you; your opinions are what concern me.
I have no issues re: self-esteem-ask anybody here.
I NEVER get huffy; I do enjoy being arrogant, though.
angellynn26, I really don't mean to come off as a know-it-all; I have lots of questions that need answering, but, in my quest for these answers, I regretfully must state my fear that I won't get any of them from you.
'Til we meet again?
well, j2... I would quote your post, but DAMN what a long one... let's see if I can out do it. First of all, take issue with any opinion of mine you wish. State your opinion of what I said, state proven facts to show how I'm wrong, but DO NOT state half truths and gossip and purport it as fact. I never once claimed that my opinions are the answer for everyone. What you should consider, however, is that everyone has different experiences in life.
I did not grow up like you, I do not live like you, I do not make the same life choices as you. WHY? Because I am NOT you! You have no clue what my life experiences have shown me.
It is obvious that you are a proud, brainwashed American... power to ya, it's not for me. If the tone of my posts seems a bit, well, AHHHHH!!!!, then take into consideration that I am a passionate person. I tell it like I see it, and I really do not care how offended someone may be by my thoughts or whether or not someone "learns" from what I have to say. Afterall, I never once claimed to be here to teach you a damn thing!
I do not bother coloring over my statements to take the feelings of a bunch of strangers into account, as you obviously do not either... so what's your beef?
I see you as wearing your rosy-colored glasses, consistently blinded to the lies and false freedom of this country. That, however, is your problem, not mine. Just because you choose to be faithful to this country does not mean that I have to share in your opinion. It also does NOT mean you have the right to put down my opinions. If I were stating false facts that you found to be untrue, that would be one thing, but you cannot disprove an opinion, so get off my back!
As for my quoting the page at the bottom of my post, it was not meant to be some kind of proof for my opinion. I was simply putting a link where others could feel free to take a look. You need to look at the post again. It simply states that for an OPINION of the lie that is America, you can click there. I never stated that it was MY opinion, per se, just that it is another person's perspective. If you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with people being intelligent enough to think for themselves.
Furthermore, telling me about this woman's past in relationships is not proof that she doesn't know what she's talking about. It's just like a man to put a woman's opinion down based solely on her past marriage. Did you ever consider that maybe she turned on the conservatives because she saw the light about what they were doing? Did it ever occur to you that she could offer an insider's perspective on the party? Why must her driving force be only bitterness to you? Are you in her head? Do you know for sure? No, you don't. You are only offering SPECULATIVE opinion, not fact. That was my point about showing facts for your arguments. You should consider that any critic of her book isn't necessarily of sound mind either and unless YOU yourself have read the material, you are in no position to offer your criticism. Don't believe everything that you hear, man. Using gossip to prove a point only makes you look like a fool.
I would not normally be bothered with someone like you, but unlike you, I am offended by your actions, not your opinions. You may put whatever facts you have to disprove my opinion, but do not point your finger at immaturity just because my opinions do not align with yours. That only serves to show your own immaturity and one track mind. And, before you go there, I don't care if you're 100 years old... Age doth not a wise man make!
I do not pretend to know everything either... and I will have questions for the rest of my life. However, my morality is in tact. I will not abandon or compromise my morals for anyone. I feel that the lies America feeds us need to be addressed. We need to stop hiding behind this falsetto of patriotism and start taking a good, hard look at what is going on within these borders. You don't have to know everything to know right from wrong.
I am not selfish, unlike the majority of Americans. I actually care about what happens to other people and I have spent my life working toward helping others... what have you done? Spending your life only concerned with yourself and your own personal problems is a waste and a damn shame.
If my liberal ideas are your problem and you are, in fact, a conservative, then I see you as a part of the American problem and we will always have issues with one another. I'm also not going anywhere, so you are just going to have to deal with it.
*edit*
Now, can't we just let this fighting go and get back to politics? It was fun, but I am not going to continue this juvenile rabble with you.
Hhmm so the south koreans think america is more dangerous than north korea? what the hell does that say??? :blink:
the programme i have just watched states that americans are doing themselves more harm than good at the moment, what with afghanistan, iraq and helping israel. Even only 50% of the isrealis liked america at the moment - and america is helping them to achieve peace there - it asks the question why are they bothering? ;)
Sorry I am a product of the MTV generation. I therefore have no way of reading any of the preceding posts, they are just too long for my attention span
Therefore I can only post a simple message. I personally have no problem with the USA or it's citizens. As a citizen of the United Kingdom, specifically Scotland and being very much of Irish descent, from all 4 Grandparents back I have always felt myself as having more in common with your citizens than with the rest of Europe.
I don't really know why that is, it's more intuitive than logical. It could be as simple as almost sharing a language. It could be more insidious, the effects of your blatant cultural imperialism. Whatever the case it is the way I feel.
To follow where the thread went, if I were to pick just one citizen of the USA to be classified as greatest it would be Martin Luther King Junior. The reasons are self evident.
If however I were to be forced to pick the one who has had most influence on me personally it would be Kurt Vonnegut Junior. The greatest artist your country has ever produced. If anyone is interested in what a good job Bomber Harris did of the fire bombings of Dresden they should read Slaughterhouse Five. Incidentally It is not my favourite of his novels.
If you wish a country to seek justification for something ask the United Kingdom to justify that. No military significance, a city of art, totally destroyed by incendiary bombs
That was in the 1940's, many things have changed since then, segregation still existed in the USA for example. Why not ask for justification of that as well?Quote:
If you wish a country to seek justification for something ask the United Kingdom to justify that. No military significance, a city of art, totally destroyed by incendiary bombs
Comparing the ethics of 2003 with those of the 1940's isn't really appropriate or relevant to whats going on in the world today.
Circumstances change, I was unaware that ethics were so variable. The "right" thing to do, should be as appropriate today as it was in the beginning.Quote:
Originally posted by evilbagpuss@18 June 2003 - 01:20
That was in the 1940's, many things have changed since then, segregation still existed in the USA for example. Why not ask for justification of that as well?Quote:
If you wish a country to seek justification for something ask the United Kingdom to justify that. No military significance, a city of art, totally destroyed by incendiary bombs
Comparing the ethics of 2003 with those of the 1940's isn't really appropriate or relevant to whats going on in the world today.
I am unaware of segregation in the United States, but I'm sure it exists somewhere. Don't let the exception represent the rule.
I said segregation existed back then, as in the past tense, and it was the rule not the exception.Quote:
Circumstances change, I was unaware that ethics were so variable. The "right" thing to do, should be as appropriate today as it was in the beginning.
I am unaware of segregation in the United States, but I'm sure it exists somewhere. Don't let the exception represent the rule.
Your right of course ethics should be a standard that doesnt change. However if you look back at history you will see that the idea of ethics is constantly changing. Women getting the vote, non-white people being seen as equals.. the list goes on. This is progress and may long may it continue. I'm sure in 100 years time some things we see as acceptable now will be seen as highly unethical.
You are right, I read the "existed" as "exists". My mistake.Quote:
Originally posted by evilbagpuss@18 June 2003 - 01:58
I said segregation existed back then, as in the past tense, and it was the rule not the exception.Quote:
Circumstances change, I was unaware that ethics were so variable. The "right" thing to do, should be as appropriate today as it was in the beginning.
I am unaware of segregation in the United States, but I'm sure it exists somewhere. Don't let the exception represent the rule.
Your right of course ethics should be a standard that doesnt change. However if you look back at history you will see that the idea of ethics is constantly changing. Women getting the vote, non-white people being seen as equals.. the list goes on. This is progress and may long may it continue. I'm sure in 100 years time some things we see as acceptable now will be seen as highly unethical.
I see Ethics like Emmanuel Kant. You create rules for a just society, blind to your own identity (gender, race, religion).
I see societal acceptance as changing over time, but this does not reflect ethics. Women voting, blacks as equal, I see more as societal perversions, not the result of ethical contemplation.
I would hope that those engage in ethics would be head and shoulders about the general ignorance of the times.
Angellynn26-Quote:
Originally posted by angellynn26@17 June 2003 - 16:42
If my liberal ideas are your problem and you are, in fact, a conservative, then I see you as a part of the American problem and we will always have issues with one another. I'm also not going anywhere, so you are just going to have to deal with it.
*edit*
Now, can't we just let this fighting go and get back to politics? It was fun, but I am not going to continue this juvenile rabble with you.
Believe me, I don't want you to go anywhere, and I am actually quite adept at "dealing" with it.
I didn't think we were fighting, merely squabbling, perhaps.
I am disturbed, however, at the sweep of your generalizations about me; I am a conservative, and I try to leave no doubt on that score.
I can only conclude that you haven't got any background on me, nor I on you, due to your newness here.
I am loathe to tell you to "read my stuff", as I am not quite that vain, SO-
Why don't we steer around each other for the time being; maybe time will breed a familiarity that will allow us to poke and prod with a little less heat.
Okay?
I put that stupid pic and choice to show the absurdity of the poll.
What nomination process?
Who got to nominate?
Mr T?
It doesn't matter.
It wreaks of jealousy and envy anyway.
Michael Moore is dangerously close to being a Communist so I can see why
some people in this forum might like him.
Michael Moore is as anti American as anyone that was actually born here can get.
He hates this country and regularly posts his hatred on the web for all to see.
Michael Moore in a recent interview said we should be paying over 80% of our hard earned money to the US gov. <_<
He's a Commie!
S&A, honestly, if you keep this up, i'm going to invite you to my place for a month or 2 to deprogram you.Quote:
Originally posted by ShockAndAwe^i^@19 June 2003 - 05:42
Michael Moore is dangerously close to being a Communist so I can see why
some people in this forum might like him.
Michael Moore is as anti American as anyone that was actually born here can get.
He hates this country and regularly posts his hatred on the web for all to see.
Michael Moore in a recent interview said we should be paying over 80% of our hard earned money to the US gov. <_<
He's a Commie!
j2 -Quote:
Originally posted by j2k4@18 June 2003 - 02:13
Angellynn26-
Believe me, I don't want you to go anywhere, and I am actually quite adept at "dealing" with it.
I didn't think we were fighting, merely squabbling, perhaps.
I am disturbed, however, at the sweep of your generalizations about me; I am a conservative, and I try to leave no doubt on that score.
I can only conclude that you haven't got any background on me, nor I on you, due to your newness here.
I am loathe to tell you to "read my stuff", as I am not quite that vain, SO-
Why don't we steer around each other for the time being; maybe time will breed a familiarity that will allow us to poke and prod with a little less heat.
Okay?
Fair enough. I appreciate the courtesy of being polite about it, thanks - truly. My words are sometimes harsh and my passion very strong... it gets to the better of me sometimes.
Again, I have no problem debating with anyone over my liberal, sometimes radical stance... Lord knows there aren't many people who don't take issue with it. I only ask that we stick to the facts at hand and not take it to the personal level. It's not polite, it's immature, and it is never the proper way to defend your stance. It is much easier to prevent these kinds of long, rude posts if we can all just agree to follow this one rule.
Also, I apologize if you were offended by my generalizations... the length and content of the previous post was merely to prove a point. I put in a lot of filler, and made a lot of assumptions due to the tone of your last post. In other words, I felt you were doing the same to me.
It is always easier to take someone's opinions personally, rather than seeing that each person may have found good reason in their lives to warrant that opinion. I will never disrespect someone personally unless I feel they have done the same to me.
I look forward to getting to know you, j2, especially if you can be polite about things. I have nothing against conservatives, it's just that once one is revealed to me, I almost never receive anything but attacks aimed at me personally. I am a veteran of quite a few political forums, and this has almost always been the case. Forgive me, but it has become an automatic defense mechanism.
I second that! B)Quote:
Originally posted by JPaul@17 June 2003 - 18:23
To follow where the thread went, if I were to pick just one citizen of the USA to be classified as greatest it would be Martin Luther King Junior. The reasons are self evident.
:blink: .... :lol: .... :blink:Quote:
Originally posted by myfiles3000@19 June 2003 - 06:23
S&A, honestly, if you keep this up, i'm going to invite you to my place for a month or 2 to deprogram you.