Help me settle an argument...
Is Wales and Scotland the same country as England?
Of course it's not, right? :unsure:
My girlfriend thinks a different country is only when it is abroad :wacko:
Shall i get rid of her :ermm:
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Help me settle an argument...
Is Wales and Scotland the same country as England?
Of course it's not, right? :unsure:
My girlfriend thinks a different country is only when it is abroad :wacko:
Shall i get rid of her :ermm:
No they are not.
Yes you should.
sheep shaggers ;)
Wales and Scotland are different countries, a clue is they have their own frikkin flags, and your girlfriend is stuuupid, get rid of ze bitch.
If she's blonde then it's ok. Just give her a pat on the back and a strawberry milkshake ;)
Does she think Europe is one big country?
is she a man? :pinch::pinch::pinch:
Wales isn't actually a country, it's a principality and joined to England. Scotland is a different country. So she's half right.
:lol: I trust you are trying to wind up Welshmen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeamous
The truth hurts :happy:
It certainly can but the Principality of Wales hasn't existed for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeamous
To my knowledge it's still legally tied to England....do you know different?
What makes you think it's "tied to England" and indeed what do you mean by that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeamous
There was a Principality of Wales but that was hundreds of years ago.
So does having a lobotomy....but there again I'm not English so I wouldn't know :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Squeamous
I know what it is, Wales has been ruled by the Monarch of Great Britain for years and by the UK Parliament, so you take that to mean England.
Actually it doesn't but that's not important right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghurkaSo does having a lobotomy....but there again I'm not English so I wouldn't know :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Squeamous
Well, Wales has its own parliament but it still has to clear all decisions through London, it is still described as a principality, in fact Wiki describes it as being 'the biggest principality in the world' although it also calls it a country and we know how reliable Wiki is :rolleyes:. To my knowledge Wales has never been a 'state' in it's own right and still isn't. I'm willing to be corrected! So what makes you think it is a country then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
No, I mean it was merged with England in the 16th century and has never gained independence (I think). Hence why Wales isn't represented on the UK flag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Who said it was a state. The two aren't analogous. The Vatican City is a state however I wouldn't describe it as a country.Quote:
Originally Posted by SqueamousWell, Wales has its own parliament but it still has to clear all decisions through London, it is still described as a principality, in fact Wiki describes it as being 'the biggest principality in the world' although it also calls it a country and we know how reliable Wiki is :rolleyes:. To my knowledge Wales has never been a 'state' in it's own right and still isn't. I'm willing to be corrected! So what makes you think it is a country then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Oh and Wales doesn't have a Parliament, I don't know what makes you think that.
I think it's really a matter for you to prove your contention that
Wales is not a Country, rather than for other people to prove it is.
If it was "merged" that would mean that England had never achieved it's independence either. I don't think we can accept that, can we.Quote:
Originally Posted by SqueamousNo, I mean it was merged with England in the 16th century and has never gained independence (I think). Hence why Wales isn't represented on the UK flag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
An assembly then...semantics ;). The fact still remains that it still has to clear it's decisions through London, and isn't completely independent of England. I've laid out my evidence.....now it's your turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
It was absorbed by England. The result is that England is still a country but Wales is a principality of it. That's what I've always known the situation to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Something being fundamentally wrong is not semantics. The Welsh assembly is not a Parliament and has no powers to legislate or raise taxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SqueamousAn assembly then...semantics ;). The fact still remains that it still has to clear it's decisions through London, and isn't completely independent of England. I've laid out my evidence.....now it's your turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
It is ruled by the UK Parliament, so is England. It is ruled over by the monarch of the UK, so is England. There is no fundamental difference between England and Wales, in fact that is what you are called, England and Wales as per the Act of Union. So if you wish to argue that Wales is a principality within the UK then you must also accept that England is the same. By your own words they are merged. Unless you can show me something to the contrary.
Indeed that would mean Scotland, by having it's own Parliament with devolved powers, in addition to electing MPs to rule over England and Wales is the only truly separate Country within the UK.
Works for me.
I think Wales is part of England but not in the official sense, It has it's own National Football Team and even though it's a shit team it still proves that Wales is seen as a Country in it's own right. I think we will see Scotland breakaway before we see Wales Become offcially seperated from England though.
Or indeed vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenieman
It was semantics in that it was a slip of the tongue not intended to raise the points you mention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Wales is most definitely defined as a principality by the looks of things, but the question remains, is it a country as well? I would suggest that because Wales was absorbed by England and all of its infrastructure (as it was) was subject to the laws of England when that happened, that it has never been a separate country. England may have absorbed Wales, but none of its laws or behaviours changed when it did so.....Wales's however did.
Subsequently, both England and Wales became part of the UK and both became subject to UK law.....so it would be reasonable to say I guess, that at that time Wales became a principality of the UK rather than England.
Probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenieman
They seem to have a better nhs up scotland too and they are willing to spend more on live saving drugs than down here in England, Anyway that was offtopic lol.
Mmmm, a point was made on another board recently that I hadn't considered. Scotland only has a set amount of money in the pot. If they want to create a more generous NHS or have free University education then something somewhere will have to give. It's a case of shuttling the money around where you think it's needed most. So, something somewhere else will have to suffer for it.
You can't just change what the word semantics means just because you made a mistake. Please don't say "you know what I meant" you're better than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SqueamousIt was semantics in that it was a slip of the tongue not intended to raise the points you mention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
Wales is most definitely defined as a principality by the looks of things, but the question remains, is it a country as well? I would suggest that because Wales was absorbed by England and all of its infrastructure (as it was) was subject to the laws of England when that happened, that it has never been a separate country. England may have absorbed Wales, but none of its laws or behaviours changed when it did so.....Wales's however did.
Subsequently, both England and Wales became part of the UK and both became subject to UK law.....so it would be reasonable to say I guess, that at that time Wales became a principality of the UK rather than England.
The rest of your post is quite frankly specious.
I particularly like the bit where you say "... both England and Wales became part of the UK and both became subject to UK law..." which kind of defeats your own argument as it effectively says that they were separate entities. Countries if you will.
You then go on to say "...so it would be reasonable to say I guess, that at that time Wales became a principality of the UK rather than England", which begs the question, how is England different.
Pretty much a précis of my previous.
The same could be said of the UK as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeamous
I'm willing to accept I made a mistake....I used the term 'parliament' when I really meant 'assembly'. This wasn't to illustrate a point, it was a slip of the tongue.....happens all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
I thought I'd explained how England was different.....it was probably the bit you called specious.
Of course Wales and England became part of the UK together.....and they are separate entities, albeit in my opinion not 'equal ones'. That's why I refer to one as a country and the other as a principality.
i like living in the uk as all my stuff is here.
Any geographical entity with a system of taxation and redistribution of income, in fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
i went to another country last week for a few days and took some of my stuff with me but it was hardly the same
That's nice Mr Mulder......you're not blonde are you? :D
On what do you base this differentiation.Quote:
Originally Posted by SqueamousI'm willing to accept I made a mistake....I used the term 'parliament' when I really meant 'assembly'. This wasn't to illustrate a point, it was a slip of the tongue.....happens all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
I thought I'd explained how England was different.....it was probably the bit you called specious.
Of course Wales and England became part of the UK together.....and they are separate entities, albeit in my opinion not 'equal ones'. That's why I refer to one as a country and the other as a principality.
You really need to think this thro'
You have them merged, you have one absorbed by the other, you have them joining the UK as one, you have them joining the UK separately, you have Wales as a principality of England, you have Wales as a principality of the UK, you have England as a country and Wales as a principality.
Your argument really seems to be all over the place.
That's just a collection of words old bean.Quote:
Originally Posted by SqueamousAny geographical entity with a system of taxation and redistribution of income, in fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley
It's not all over the place....this is a complex argument and a complex issue, hence there will be a lot of seemingly contradictory terms coming up which in fact marry together in a very subtle but coherent way. I told you what I based this differentiation on...the bit you dismissed as specious. As such, there hardly seems any point me repeating it........if I do it will only confuse you even more :P.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr JP Fugley