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so what you think of create a different WIAW by content and another think like that for you request a ftn invite from comunity you need 6months 1000 usefull posts and not spam and good menber atitude :)
ad for others trackers too, so the bt invite section will be more clean :)
If only FST would ever listen to something like this, *sigh*, alas they never do, so we are left with the current mess as it is.
vazouk .. that should definitely be the case and criteria even if that means I ll have to wait 4 more months before asking for FTN
I only use WIAW to see the reviews
You can always create a thread about it and see where it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtMajor
The WIAW thread was originally conceived to be an indication of how hard it is to acquire an invite to each listed tracker.
In that sense it has done a good job.
Unfortunately, members seem to look at it as a definitive guide to how good a tracker is even though there is a disclaimer in the first post explaining it.
Perhaps the reviews have led a lot of members to think of the thread in the way they seem to do. Perhaps it's just that many members can't make up their own minds as to a tracker's worth.
Whatever the cause of the problem, we don't have enough staff to compile and maintain a second thread with only slightly different intent.
You're welcome to try and compile one yourselves, though.
If you'll sticky it or make an effort to keep it at the top of the stack, then maybe.
We did try, the staff here let it die, we keep on trying different things here, again the staff just ignore it, such as the overwhelming majority of posters here not agreeing or liking account trading - again ignored, eventually we get the message - you like the status quo of the WAIW thread and the incessant trading that follows that thread like a bad smell and this creates the busy nature of these forums that follow it like a bible.
Why not just have a Tracker Review Thread, based on alphabetical naming of the trackers (such as the Tracker Staff thread) with both ratings side-by-side, content (which can be used to offer similar items rather than the one a poster was looking for) and rarity rating (the chances of getting such a tracker don't come easy and you may have to wait your turn).
There are other options of course, but a good discussion involving FST staff, tracker staff and posters who know what they are talking about might help to change the current atmosphere surrounding this forum and /that/ thread!
Just my opening twopence worth of course.
Sorry Sarge but I stopped reading right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtMajor
Of course it's FST Staff's duty to keep a close watch on all threads despite the amount of shit that gets posted both in here and the Report Section. </sarcasm>
I spend my whole fucking evening 5 days a week removing shit from the BT sections, responding to reports & tracking possible dupe accounts and you lot gotta bitch that we let a thread die? Yeah, of course we all met on MSN and watched it wither away down the page...
FFS if the thread was that popular it would still be at the top of the pile.
It was tried and the idea was popular too, based on a poll. however wasnt stickied.
I agree with what SgtMajor said here. and from what I see, it is not going to happen.
@ Chewie : the only thing needed to be done was to stickie it.. It would then get better as more people would take notice. As far as I remember , it was on the top of that pile for sufficiently enough time ....... as is this thread going to die too
And that, I'm afraid, is your (FSTs) answer to most attempts at trying to change things, just ignore it and it will go away, deliberately letting it whither down the pipe not to return. Do you not think with a more responsible way of looking at things, you and the staff would actually have less work to do?. It isn't rocket science, but it will take a little of extra effort to start with to get the ball moving, ultimately leading to a more respected & respectable forum in the long run, producing less scams & scammers to have to deal with.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChewieSorry Sarge but I stopped reading right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtMajor
Of course it's FST Staff's duty to keep a close watch on all threads despite the amount of shit that gets posted both in here and the Report Section. </sarcasm>
I spend my whole fucking evening 5 days a week removing shit from the BT sections, responding to reports & tracking possible dupe accounts and you lot gotta bitch that we let a thread die? Yeah, of course we all met on MSN and watched it wither away down the page...
FFS if the thread was that popular it would still be at the top of the pile.
And it isn't just about letting a thread die - it's about just totally ignoring the ideas and suggestions that get put forward in favour of some shitty rarity thread kept alive by traders wanting trackers to go up or down depending if they have it or not.
How about a reasonable debate that needs to happen then?
Sarge......I have a suggestion, why don't U take a shot of becoming a staff member here in FST. I beleive a lot of members will definitely "agree" with me.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtMajorAnd that, I'm afraid, is your (FSTs) answer to most attempts at trying to change things, just ignore it and it will go away, deliberately letting it whither down the pipe not to return. Do you not think with a more responsible way of looking at things, you and the staff would actually have less work to do?. It isn't rocket science, but it will take a little of extra effort to start with to get the ball moving, ultimately leading to a more respected & respectable forum in the long run, producing less scams & scammers to have to deal with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewie
And it isn't just about letting a thread die - it's about just totally ignoring the ideas and suggestions that get put forward in favour of some shitty rarity thread kept alive by traders wanting trackers to go up or down depending if they have it or not.
How about a reasonable debate that needs to happen then?
Then maybe we can see more 'productive" changes around here in the Invite section.:D
That's not going to happen.
I requested to resign from my position some weeks back and it was refused. That was the second time I had requested it.
FWIW gentlemen, when we were looking at taking on more BT Mods I suggested SgtMajor, it was seconded and then turned down without reason.
I still don't want this fucking shit.
Edit:
That's better.
I wouldn't mind taking a shot at being a BitTorrent moderator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by th0r
Yeah, i bet you would...:D
Oh dear me, this has had the total opposite effect to what was supposed to be a serious discussion with a plausible outcome that would have or could have been respected by all.
I'm just gobsmacked, ffs I'm lost for words, c'mon chewie - we ain't /that/ bad are we?
Not that bad, SgtMajor?
FST has a threat to wield against scammers and cheaters - do it at FST and you will find a ban request made for the scammed account and your IP/email at all friendly trackers.
Why was I the only one willing to message CRs and visit IRCs to make good on that threat?
Some CR made a post (but not with that CR account) "outing" this policy. What a complete arsehole... I keep CRs informed of these arseholes and get fucked over for it.
Look at the spamming.
There's a sticky outlining posting guidelines and spammers are given infractions. Do they care? Nope. They just carry on bumping and great giveaway-ing because they don't give a fuck.
And then there's your post above.Don't take this the wrong way, but you haven't got a clue what goes on in the background here.Quote:
And that, I'm afraid, is your (FSTs) answer to most attempts at trying to change things, just ignore it and it will go away, deliberately letting it whither down the pipe not to return.
PF had been on a self-imposed Moderation Abstention for months before posting his Glorious Retirement Acceptance Speech while one other staffer Middlemanned almost everything in his absence... and we're treated to ignore it and it will go away?
If you're after new blood in the BT sections Moderators, you got it.
Man........alot of reading, but I am glad is in the "opeN' and what goes on behind the scenes in FST. I have a lot of "Respect" for U now, Chewie...... I always thought U were an ASSH**e......Wow !!.. just open my eyesQuote:
Originally Posted by Chewie
Hope I do not get an Infration for saying that, I have enough FST "tickets"
......LOL:01::naughty::01:
Freaking politics everwhere you go! Can't we all just steal some warez and get along?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewie
Chewie, maybe we (we as in all of us - not just you & I!) need to have this discussion moved to either the right place, or at least out of this thread?
And I hope that is all that it is - a discussion - and not you thinking I'm having a personal dig at anyone round here, and I sincerely hope you evaluate your position in the cold light of day tomorrow, and re-join us in your former role, god only knows we need more of the experienced & mature MODs tutoring alongside the younger MODs here.
I will personally stand up and say thank you for reporting all scammers and invite sellers to all "friendly" trackers, and I only wish it would be all trackers that took FST more seriously than they do, hence part of my original post, I really would like this to be a BT Invite forum where I can post without fear of retribution or humiliation by tracker staff, christ this forum has a really bad sour name, and I hate it when they commonly refer to here as "them FST wankers" etc, and then I sheepishly ignore that part and not let on I am here, I seriously wish that wasn't the case. And most of that is down to /that/ thread and the incessant trading that goes on trying to reach the pinnacle of /that/ thread collecting every tracker on the way. Which is why it needs re-visiting and possibly & hopefully re-evaluating the way trackers are rated.
As for modding, well we have had very little proper mature modding round here, so the posters get away with murder. Spamming, cursing, going off-topic etc etc are all the norm here, and as you know, I am quite adept at the report post function.
I thank you & skizo for doing an excellent job, and I only hope the BT MODs have took note in how to MOD, but one thing is for sure, they have been noted more for their absence rather than modding abilities, without a good mod presence then chaos will prevail, and posters are not thinking about what they are posting because they know nothing actually happens to them, maybe they (the BT MODs) have been busy with other things & real life etc and they can begin modding here more soon maybe?
And as for what happens in the background, you're right, I do not know what goes on, nor do I need to know, I only go by what goes on in the front room and from what I can see is happening, I don't wish to personalise about who is responsible for doing what, nor should I care, only that it is done in a proper & professional manner, but that has not been the case recently really has it? Only when reported did something happen, rather than pro-active modding and public warnings issued.
I wasn't after any new blood, I wasn't after any blood at all, I only asked if we could all examine the possibility of /that/ thread being redone in a way that diminished the need for trading, that some of our ideas, especially when the overwhelming majority of the posters were in favour of them (ie no account trading), at least be implemented?
I hope that we can continue our discussion in the manner it was meant to be, ie just a discussion about where we are going and what is good about here and not make it about personalities, and I would have hoped there might have been more interjection by other members, but it seems I am alone and therefore actually am in the minority here in wanting things to improve from where they are today?
When did anyone try other than Corey? Link? He was the last one to attempt it that I can recall sometime around the start of the year, but admittedly didn’t have the time for it. It wasn’t even something that anyone could really pick up either as it was vastly incomplete.Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtMajor
Granted, this has been talked about to death, but that’s all. No members have ever put a true effort into it. The discussion threads always become some sort of unwarranted FST bash-fest.
Not one moderator who is at all active or knowledgeable in the BT/BT Invites section has the time it requires to maintain a thread of that magnitude after finishing tasks which are priorities - scammer reports, Middleman duties, etc. When those time consuming activities have finished, I earnestly believe what little time DefianceX/Corey/tralalala have should be theirs to enjoy. I’m simply not in favor of putting any more work on their plates. PF did almost no MM duties, but he kept the WIAW thread up-to-date which required him staying up on all the latest goings on.
If the thread is going to be done, done properly, and maintained, we would have ZERO problems sticking it. In fact, send me a PM or find me on MSN and I’ll review it the moment it’s completed, but an FST staff member managing the thread is not something we’re prepared to handle.
Also, saying “the staff here let it die” is bullshit through and through. Couldn’t hardly believe I read that. I know you’re not a member of the ATG, but there have been extensive discussions in there about another ranking system based on content in order to offset the focus on the WIAW thread, with me and sear being the threads biggest advocates. The thread has received an enormous amount of input from FST staff, FST members, and Community Reps alike, but at the end of the day, no one has stepped up and actually done it.
How easily you forget your own comments referring to that particular discussion… If you’d like a refresher, PM me and I’ll quote you as I see you’ve finally taken a step down, but putting it off as you don’t know the reason seems a bit odd. The only time there was no reason given was when the “he” said to PM him for the reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewie
(Sorry for being so obtuse SgtMajor, but that’s just how it needs to be. The reason you were removed for consideration can be discussed via MSN or PM, but out of respect I’ll keep that out of the public eye as well.)
You admit to not knowing what goes on and then go right back to criticizing. :dabs:Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtMajor
The amount of moderating that needs to be done in the Invites section is so immense you couldn’t imagine. There is already in incredible amount of moderating that is done in there almost around the clock, but it seems I'm shoveling shit against the tide. Besides, most infractions in that section are rather minor ones such as spamming or bumping. Hardly something that is detrimental to the thread rather than just annoying, well, spam.
I also keep coming back to the idea that raising expectations inevitably raises performance, and in this case, the quality of the experience for everyone, but raising expectations isn’t something that is going to take place overnight.
Strength in numbers is the way to go. Having added mods/staff members has got to help, and time will reveal their effect on the section once they’re implemented. Problem is, we run into walls when looking for those to promote. Most simply don’t have the capacious amount of time that moderating requires. The second issue we have is finding members who don’t have any "dirt" or other issues in their background.
I wanted to reply to some of those issues here, but let's keep this to discussing the rankings issue. FST issues can be handled in the Report section or Everything About the Board.
I remember the suggestions thread. The question should be why is PM necessary when the thread is in a staff area anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizoHow easily you forget your own comments referring to that particular discussion… If you’d like a refresher, PM me and I’ll quote you as I see you’ve finally taken a step down, but putting it off as you don’t know the reason seems a bit odd. The only time there was no reason given was when the “he” said to PM him for the reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewie
He did come on MSN and mentioned about the reason... which was basically just a generalisation of an issue. When someone says they're giving me a reason for something, I expect specifics. Anything less is an excuse in my book... my kids know this and understand it.
The only possible reason could be his name mentioned as staff at a site that I believe bit the dust soon after. I don't see that as an issue and it wasn't mentioned as the reason anyway.
Guess we all agree that the current ranking system needs to be changed.I know its not an easy task so i suggest the mod try to appoint somone just for that specific task only. Somone who has the time to provide unbiased and uptodate content information on the trackers.
The comment I'm referring to is in a report.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChewieI remember the suggestions thread. The question should be why is PM necessary when the thread is in a staff area anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
He did come on MSN and mentioned about the reason... which was basically just a generalisation of an issue. When someone says they're giving me a reason for something, I expect specifics. Anything less is an excuse in my book... my kids know this and understand it.
The only possible reason could be his name mentioned as staff at a site that I believe bit the dust soon after. I don't see that as an issue and it wasn't mentioned as the reason anyway.
The WIAW thread isn't going anywhere. The information is valid and accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by shazzar
What needs to happen is another thread with rankings based on content to offset the WIAW thread and bring some equilibrium to the rankings.
i see it a good idea
torrentleech wil be level 10 :)
although that the same discussion have been done before but i guess i ahve to say it again
FST staff never turned anyone down regarding another ranking which mainly based on content as this thread has been done before and i did even praised it when a member here did it and offered my assistance incase he needed to ask for anything or discuss something but the thread was a failure because it can't be accepted by alot no one is insane enough to give for example an FTN invite for Torrentleech or SCT invite for Torrent-damage no matter how good the low ranked trackers and also has problems with different invite systems in almost all trackers
This scenario listed above was like you want to compare sunlight to petroleum where wars started because of it and despie both of them are essential but whose willing to give his land filled with petroleum to get sunlight which he can get for free (no offence for mentioned trackers) unless people involved are close friends
The WIAW thread is asking you not to take it to literally besides it have reviews to almost all trackers widely known sothat members can read and try to get the tracker he wants it no matter he trades or not ,It has also a ranking for (content+speed+pretimes) and trackers are ranked there according to supply,demand and members suggestions
you can't just compare abottle of water worth 1$-2$ with Petroleum worth 90$-100$ because they will think you will be nuts if you compare price between both two although both of them are essential
you are saying that WIAW is bad ,well i don't recall me doing magic to make people belive in it worldwide in hundreds of forums but people are using it because they think it has credibility so to make anew system you have to put effort in it and make people belive in it and see that the new system really works but the first step has to come from trackers themselves not from members
Nice to see some honest and outspoken posts here from staff and members alike....despite your differences it seems like most of you agree that the WIAW thread has turned into a monster which needs to be tamed.
I have seen this create a vicious circle of trading. For example a member decides he wants to get into site "X" because it's ranked at level 7 so he gets an invite. He then finds that site "X" doesn't have any better content or speed than all the other sites he's at so rather than waste that account decides to try to trade it for another and so on.
There has to be an alternative to the WIAW thread as this is not working in the way it was intended. It just seems to have generated more account trading and in doing so FST seems to be getting more and more flak from the trackers. Is it simply a coincidence that FSTs reputation started going downhill since that thread was started. Has there been a increase in account trading since that thread started.
I know there's no easy solution but surely the staff, members and community reps can get together and come up with something that will benefit the site.
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bit...content-215543Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bit...newbies-219707
Check this out :dabs:
I did give a lot of time to this, granted its incomplete and needs improvement in various aspects. But you obviously seemed to have ignored it .. I ll be happy to pick up the whole thing again and start over, when my semester is complete. or You can give this to someone else who is interested.
Those are simply discussion threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by p1r4t3http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bit...content-215543Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bit...newbies-219707
Check this out :dabs:
I did give a lot of time to this, granted its incomplete and needs improvement in various aspects. But you obviously seemed to have ignored it .. I ll be happy to pick up the whole thing again and start over, when my semester is complete. or You can give this to someone else who is interested.
Show me a thread where someone has done something other than complain about the current rankings and actually created a ranking thread based on content.
No one has. Everyone wants to dis the staff here as if we "let it die" when it never existed in the first place (to my knowledge).
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bit...newbies-219707Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
Check the first page of that thread...
That is a hardcore trader point of view. Invites are actually meant to be free.. and any such thread would merely serve as a guide for those non traders and newbies. Traders will trade no matter what, and trackers will continue banning them as they are caught....Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriot foreve
I did already, though it was just another discussion thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by p1r4t3
The last edit to the thread was 6 hours it was made, ffs. It certainly wasn't a valid attempt to initiate a counter to the WIAW thread. :dabs:
It was a start and wasnt noticed. The WIAW thread was maintained because it had inputs from various users too. It had the advantage of being a first as well. When I made this thread, the forum was full of traders, as it is today and most of them ignored it over the existing thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkizoI did already, though it was just another discussion thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by p1r4t3
The last edit to the thread was 6 hours it was made, ffs. It certainly wasn't a valid attempt to initiate a counter to the WIAW thread. :dabs:
I eventually gave up over it....and as a result it died. Had it more input and involvement it could have grown into a thread that could counter the wiaw.
You gave up after 6 hours? What did you expect, immediate change? :ermm:Quote:
Originally Posted by p1r4t3It was a start and wasnt noticed. The WIAW thread was maintained because it had inputs from various users too. It had the advantage of being a first as well. When I made this thread, the forum was full of traders, as it is today and most of them ignored it over the existing thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
I eventually gave up over it....and as a result it died. Had it more input and involvement it could have grown into a thread that could counter the wiaw.
I've always thought that the WIAW was the main problem here, but I guess the real problem is trading itself. let me explain my point of view.
The WIAW gives a lot of valuable info about trackers. It has a lot of useful reviews on almost every tracker, regarding contents, speed, etc. and not only on rarity. The main problem here is that people read that it shouldn't be taken literal, but do it anyways.
Mods invest most a lot of time (from what i read here) as middleman and catching and reporting scammers. Also, as PF said, nobody would consider the quality of a tracker when trading, only rarity.
IMO, the solution to all of this is to disallow trading. There would be many benefits from this: mods would have less duties regarding mm and scammers would simply go away if they weren't allowed to trade here (=less moding needed in the report section); we (fst) would have a better name as we enforce trackers' rules against trading, and CR wont tell you in their irc that fst is a shitty place or simply disable you for being a member here; etc.
If trading were abolished, we wouldn't have to discuss the need to have another WIAW thread. The one we have is ok, and people have invested great amounts of their time to keep it up to date. The main problem with it is that people use it as a guideline to break trackers' rules (aka trading) instead of a source of info, as they should.
This attitude of "FST is based on screwing over trackers" really bothers me.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaffeine
This implies that not only this is our goal, but that we don't give a damn about trackers and their wishes.
Believe it or not, there actually trackers out there who are begrudged since their tracker isn't listed in the WIAW thread. There are even more who have voiced that they could care less what their members do with invites. With that being said, that is why we do not ban trading. What we have done for those trackers who wish that their accounts not be traded, we have offered all of them who are Community Reps to report any thread which involves accounts from their tracker being traded, and we will stop the trades. Simple as that. No catch. Fact is, only a couple choose to do so.
As for the content rankings and why there isn't one - what have you (Joe Public) done to foster this idea of a content based "WIAW" style thread since it appears to be important to you? What is first in our minds is FST. Making sure the forum is still a good source of help for it's users. Keeping it that way is important. Thanks to the efforts of many, it enjoys a good reputation overall and is regarded favorably by most who participate. Changing the rules overnight to suit the needs of others, all the while going against the tide is not the way to do things. We do want to get to some common ground, but sudden radical changes is far from an ideal method.
Let's face facts here - if we stopped allowing all trading tomorrow, those traders would simply go to another one of many forums which have directly copied the WIAW thread and trading would continue as usual. I think that's a given. The proper way to induce change is to show them a better method.
Regarding FST rep, I don't know if you're referring to me specifically or in general. I just commented on that point based on many threads i've read about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizo
I love FST. what really bothers me is to hear this attitude from other people and some CR in some irc channels and other forums towards FST, and would like to see a change in the attitude towards FST from external sources, but as you say, a drastic change is not the way either.
As some have said here, little we know what's happening in the background. I've never said the mod's work being done here is bad or suggested so. And it's good to know some measures are taken to protect tracker's wishes to disallow specific trades (too bad it gives an overhead to mod's work)
I believe that another WIAW is not necessary if taken the right steps against trading. But seeing this is not happening anytime soon (for the reasons you state), I guess you're right in that should be another content like WIAW thread, it would had to be created and maintained by all of us, and not just put it in mods hands.
If trading were disallowed at FST, traders and scammers doing it elsewhere wouldn't be our problem, it would be the other forums'.
But I guess the most important point is your last sentence, as this is a problem of education and values: "show them a better method" :yup:
Sorry for my bad english:
Just an opinion....I've been here for almost 7 months and there is a lot of change in that span of time..
Members here are now separated by two opinions anti trading account and pro. we have now many members that don't want to trade.and rep points are now not reliable..
Many trackers are now limiting the giveaways and trading of their invites...
I remember last time that someone suggest to have a different section for trading and freebies... if you want to have another WIAW thread maybe it's time to consider this suggestion..
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bit...es-free-177374
It is just an opinion... I know it's a very hard work but maybe this will help changing some problems here in FST.... Thank you.
i cannot read the link, but i would love a section for non traders.
i made pretty good experiences with non trading forums when it comes to invites.
There is, it the ATG, but you have to be invited or recommended (so I've heard, i'm not there myself, but would like to someday)Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarbear
really i dont think you could ever fixs the ranking system, and i say this because traders and invite traders us the ranking the wrong way..
I watch the invite section alot and 1 thing i have seen is some of the same guys trading invites and accounts for the same sites. 1 guy in 1 week for 2 accounts at the same site. Not sure if he was going to use it to trade for something else and keep 1 or if he was keeping both accounts because he is a huge leech and knows 1 will get banned or is a known cheater and knows it will get banned. This is the main reason everyone watches this site and bans many users from here. This site getting worse name every day because of what goes on here.
Wild
what is atg? could you please explain this?Quote:
Originally Posted by kaffeineThere is, it the ATG, but you have to be invited or recommended (so I've heard, i'm not there myself, but would like to someday)Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarbear