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Is not just a leechers tool. It can be set for unlimited uploads.
All it does is take away the relationship between uploads and downloads (like the PL I hear you say).
For someone who has limited upload say 128 kb even if they are on 600 kb download, it means that they can continue to share at their max. While getting the advantage of a faster download.
Since they cannot upload any faster anyway why is that a problem.
I am at a loss to understand why people have a problem with this.
because seemingly (ive never used it but heard about it) you can set your upload limit to 0KBs and see no degradation in your download speed IE: max 60KBs download at 60KBs while uploading 0KBs.
stoi
You can do that with klite too.Quote:
Originally posted by stoi@20 July 2003 - 20:15
because seemingly (ive never used it but heard about it) you can set your upload limit to 0KBs and see no degradation in your download speed IE: max 60KBs download at 60KBs while uploading 0KBs.
stoi
Itīs down to what you chose to do.
You can leave your upload to max and still get your fastest download.
yeah well i dont use klite either so case closed on my side i think.
stoi
lolQuote:
Originally posted by stoi@20 July 2003 - 20:32
yeah well i dont use klite either so case closed on my side i think.
stoi
Forgive me for asking and at the risk of spamming myself, what do you use.
It's not blatantly obvious that you can with K-Lite though. BTJ "sells" itself by being well-known to be able to set itself at 0kbs.Quote:
You can do that with klite too.
If it had a minimum limit of uploading at say the minimum that the U-D relationship allows in BT, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
The problems are that
- You can't necessarily cancel leechers like you can with KL
- With KL, the PL is only a priority system; KL downloads happen regardless, just a matter of speed. BT relies on a system of needing to upload to download a file - BTJ removes that necessity. BTJ has a more significant effect on the BT network than KL has on FastTrack
- The PL system on FastTrack is f***ed - Most people outside KMD users know that. The BT system of simultaneous uploading & downloading has worked fairly until BTJ and other leeching BT clients have popped up
If BTJ was available only to mature BT users who made sure that their files remained uploadable for a while, then I'd have no problem with that. But this is a wanted tool of leechers for BT - How the hell you cannot understand why people have a problem with it for such reasons, I'm at a loss myself :huh:
When the first person to introduce BTJ was someone who not only advertised it and his mirror sites/DDLs of it, but also admitted shamelessly that he was a leech and he didn't care that he wasn't uploading, then it kinda gives a rep of it as a leeching tool. :blink:
Trust me when I mean this - I was the one who reported 111 and his second alias to the mods.
i use Burst R3 at the moment but have tried a few out, ive heard good things about Azureus Java Client but have not tried that yet.
stoi
No sorry, lost me there.Quote:
Originally posted by stoi@20 July 2003 - 20:42
i use Burst R3 at the moment but have tried a few out, ive heard good things about Azureus Java Client but have not tried that yet.
stoi
Tad on the esoteric side for me.
Your arguement, as ever well put, is compelling.Quote:
Originally posted by Illuminati@20 July 2003 - 20:38
It's not blatantly obvious that you can with K-Lite though. BTJ "sells" itself by being well-known to be able to set itself at 0kbs.Quote:
You can do that with klite too.
If it had a minimum limit of uploading at say the minimum that the U-D relationship allows in BT, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
The problems are thatIf BTJ was available only to mature BT users who made sure that their files remained uploadable for a while, then I'd have no problem with that. But this is a wanted tool of leechers for BT - How the hell you cannot understand why people have a problem with it for such reasons, I'm at a loss myself :huh:
- You can't necessarily cancel leechers like you can with KL
- With KL, the PL is only a priority system; KL downloads happen regardless, just a matter of speed. BT relies on a system of needing to upload to download a file - BTJ removes that necessity. BTJ has a more significant effect on the BT network than KL has on FastTrack
- The PL system on FastTrack is f***ed - Most people outside KMD users know that. The BT system of simultaneous uploading & downloading has worked fairly until BTJ and other leeching BT clients have popped up
When the first person to introduce BTJ was someone who not only advertised it and his mirror sites/DDLs of it, but also admitted shamelessly that he was a leech and he didn't care that he wasn't uploading, then it kinda gives a rep of it as a leeching tool. :blink:
Trust me when I mean this - I was the one who reported 111 and his second alias to the mods.
Itīs a sort of "guns donīt shot people, people do" however the only way to stop this is to stop people getting guns. Therefore no-one should have a gun.
So because the program can be used unethically (ironic given what it is used for) then people should not be allowed to use it at all.
Like I said that is no different from K++. People can use it without sharing.
I take your point, but can you tell me why I shouldnīt use it, if I set my upload to unlimited.
Nice response - One which reminds me why I never expect less of you :)
Sometimes I wonder why guns were even invented :PQuote:
Itīs a sort of "guns donīt shot people, people do" however the only way to stop this is to stop people getting guns. Therefore no-one should have a gun
To be serious though - The fact is that while BTJ is good in the right hands, there are too many immature 12, 13 year old boys who use things and don't think of the negative consequences for BTJ's existance to be much good as a whole. Thing applies to file sharing as much as it does to guns.
I will admit that I could see BTJ being a lot more helpful than the original client. But at the same time, the only time which I'd support BTJ would be when all the leechers are flushed out. IMO the majority of mature filesharers and those concerned about the RIAA et al are, as for many things unfortunately these days, have their opportunities spoiled by a minority.
And many have coined to that, and cancel them - The uploader who a KL user d/ls from can still cancel such user if they wanted to due to cheating the PL system. The same cannot currently be done by BitTorrent.Quote:
So because the program can be used unethically (ironic given what it is used for) then people should not be allowed to use it at all.
Like I said that is no different from K++. People can use it without sharing.
And ethics is down to personal opinion. Just because we "lower ourselves" (quote probably from RIAA - w***ers ;)) to the state of gaining material from P2P, it doesn't mean that we've lost all sense of ethics - Give any of the other members a gun (this is seperate from above) and chances are that all but a few will be able to pull the trigger when its pointed at say a cripple. Not because they don't have the balls, but because they still have the morals to refrain from commiting murder without feeling.
I can't and I'm not one to do so for individuals. Those who share deserve to be able to by setting their d/ls that way if they wished.Quote:
I take your point, but can you tell me why I shouldnīt use it, if I set my upload to unlimited.
However, like I said above - The minority spoil it for the majority, and while I see the benefits of using BTJ when you consider sharing as well, until it can be limited in some way to prevent abuse by leechers, I'll be against it for a while to come :(
So you wouldn't mind me using it then, so long as I leave uploads to max and continue seeding when finished. Though you would discourage it's becoming more widespread.
Other views would be appreciated. Or more from my seeker of truth friend (there are more things in heaven and earth Horatio, than are dreampt of in your philosophy) obviously.
The way i see it:
Using this client slows everyones downloads in a much more appreciable way than on a normal p2p app. This is because torrents (especially the less wanted) are usually only around for a short time and during that time the total download speed is equal ot the total upload speed, every user not uploading has a very obvoius impact on the download rate.
Essentially because of the short release time, if a significant no. of people are using this app (say 10-20%) then all the early downloads will be significantly slower, even if people upload once their download has finished or later on, then this is of less value because there are usually much fewer people wanting the file (tho they will admittedly get it much more quickly)
Basically u end up hurting hte many and giving to the few (and chances are that if a lot of people use this app they will not give as much bandwidth as they have taken as there aren't enough people downloading near the end of a torrents life)
I fully admit this would be less ofa problem with the more wanted files/releases as there are always lots of people who arrive late and still want a piece
Minor edit