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if one doesnt want to use a particular tracker whats wrong in letting someone else use it ? someone who is more active ?
i know they hate it because it is some sort of security issue .
but how many trackers have got shut down due to account trading ?
not even one i guess . if some anti piracy agency wants to shut down a site do you think they depend on some traded accounts ? :shifty:
Who said com reps hate it ? maybe most are just following the rules set to them by the trackers they
A)Staff
B)Help
besides, why get an account somewhere if you are nvr gonna use it ? just dont join simple.
if you are having a party and invite your friend. you open the door and a stranger is standing there ready to crash your party. he tells you he comes on behalf of your friend.
-what would you think of your friend?
-would you let the stranger in?
i don't think you will understand this example, because your question isn't one of the smartest i read today.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarbear
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
You could give out an account with a huge buffer to someone,
and if they have a huge amount of upload credit,
they could just hit and run.
Thus, bringing the site quality down.
More often than not you get the account banned,
sometimes the original unsuspecting inviter gets banned,
or gets their invites taken away.
And then someone innocent gets banned for being generous.
I think anyone who joins a tracker should have to check the little terms box... I think generally those people are more trusted. I think those people are more likely to read the rules and FAQs and overall be a better member.
One thing I never understood,
Why do people giving away account ever ask for ratio proofs? What makes you think they actually seeded the good ratios themself.. maybe it's just someone else's buffered account that they received...
I think if anyone is a good enough person to be a member of the sites, they should be able to get invited.
If you want to be helpful, get your account deleted if you don't use it, and open up a spot for someone who will be a good member and earn their invite just like you did.
(By the way, I'm not trying to put everyone who does this sort of thing in a stereotype, but I'm just mentioning reasons why this is looked down upon by people who look down on it.)
great example indeed:whistling:whistlingQuote:
Originally Posted by Polarbear
oh i think im guilty of this one, i just gave my account to someone else with a buffer, hope he is a good member :( now i realise some what of the aftermaths
why are you comparing real life situations to the internet ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarbear
:blink:
well , the user must have worked hard to build a buffer in the first place , seeding 24/7 . so there in nothing wrong in leeching some without worrying about ratios . :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Grind$oFine
i was talking about giving an account to someone who will be more active in terms of seeding/leeching / community .
:shifty:
what if i found a better site after i joined the site :DQuote:
Originally Posted by celtic
he was simply providing an example that people can relate to, so its easier to comprehend the situation :P
here you know your friend, but in trackers you think the staff have a close bond between each member? so it doesnt matter to them, as long as they are good members.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarbear
anyways i once talked to one staff and they said the reason is that the other person is stealing your ratio. thats just a stupid answer
When it comes down to it,
I personally would be pissed if I invited someone to a site and they gave the account away to someone else.
I know other people would, too.
It's not really your choice, it's you inviter's choice as to who gets their invite.
If the other person would be such a good member then they'd have no problem getting their own invite. If you think they're that great, invite them yourself, then you can be responsible for them and you're not throwing them on someone else.
I don't think this is a situation where opposite points of view are ever gonna see eye to eye, but I think everyone should respect the rules of the sites they use.
For me, I like filling out the signup form, I like having my own username on all my sites, I like being fully responsible for my uploading/downloading, and I like knowing my account is safe.
And just another point of view, what if you're a member of a tracker, you give it away because you find a better one, and then the account gets banned? And then, a few months later that tracker you thought was crap gets some new amazing feature, or the site you thought was better gets shut down, and you want back in the original... now your IP is banned. You could try to get in again some way, but it's very possible you'll just get banned again, and then that inviter will probably get in trouble, most likely banned, too.
why r u giving an account thats the main point if dont want to use just let disabled due inactivity or to delete it yesterday i saw a guy giving 2 fresh acts away so can u tell how many he has acts he signed up and is that good.
i was concerned about the security issues related with a traded account and MPAA site shut down issues :|
Well there are other security issues than being shut down you know. How about it just isn't right. A long standing member has earned some respect. newer members have to prove themselves more. They will keep and eye on newer members more so that the older ones they already know. Im not being mean but do you really not get this yet? Polar Bears analogy is one of the best Iv seen having to do with this issue.
I will reverse the question then.
Why should you be able to go against the very site you would die to be a part of to trade an acct?
Its also just plain odd, think about it, you get a traded a/c, you don't know who the friends list is on the site, you don't know what posts have been made before, your sitting there and bam a pm from someone you've never heard of wanting to know how things are & did your pet poodle survive the operation, or even better going into the site irc and having users pop up & say haven't seen you for a while...............
You all say you want the sites for the community , so the community side of the trackers are the irc chans and the forums, how are you going to be a member of the community with someone elses identity ?
Thats just plain creepy when you think about it ............
A lot of people also trade or giveaway accounts that have been buffered by cheating.
The account may be disabled some time later on, and all the IPs and emails of that account will be linked to the original cheater.
Would you like any connection with a cheater? I don't think so...
Not to mention that the rest of the trackers will probably ban you too, since they communicate with each other and ban possible cheaters before they attempt the same thing on their tracker.
If you're not active in the site anymore, delete your account.
The person who invited the original account holder did it based on trust. What happens if the person with whom you traded starts doing some stupid thing with the account, like cheating? You'll get your original inviter in trouble after he helped you and trusted you... that's just wrong. Plus you'll be directly associated with it (as znik pointed out). Put yourself in the original inviter's position..
Remember, accounts are meant to be for personal use. Don't want it anymore? don't need it? delete it.
ok . thanks for all the valuable opinion . you made me realise how wrong my views were
:)
All the posters above make excellent posts, and kaffeine in particular raises a really important point regarding the invite tree.
I'll share an example for myself of an invite tree snafu since it may be easier to comprehend.
When Demonoid went off-line for a bit of time last summer, (and I was super-naive to the torrent scene). I asked for, and received an invite to TorrentLeech. When invites opened up I noticed I did not have any even though I made Power user. When I asked staff in their IRC I was told that somewhere in my invite tree was a bad apple. As a result, all the people that were clustered in that invite tree kept their account, but lost any invite privileges (emphasis on the word privilege!!)
So, if you trade an account, that so happens to have a long invite tree associated with it, and the next user of this account messes up big time because they are just a selfish loser, than it is much more than just that one person effected. Many many people who are clustered around that account are affected also. For me it really pissed me off because I maintain myself as a good member of any tracker I belong to. That I lost all privileges because of some idiot above me is VERY annoying.
So....account trading is bad for all the reasons above, (against site rules, compromises site security, etc) but it also can effect many innocent people who are in that site legitimately.
Bottom line...anyone who trades an account is just acting like a selfish dork. They don't see the big picture of who all can be hurt by this kind of activity.
My two cents..........
Are we doing Lower Kinder Garten here? :lol:
^ Try writing and explaining yourself when English is not your first language. At least they try.
true. but what about you giving away the account to someone who you trust? what you said can also be applied to invites. suppose i invited someone who is a bad user, then the guy who invited me will also get in trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaffeine
so its the same thing with invites, but the rules states otherwise.
suppose i have an account at some tracker, and i have a problem in my life or whatever so that i cant use my account anymore. dont you think its better if i give it to someone who can put it in a better use? and also someone who i can trust?
They hate it because when you were invited only you were invited to use your account. Generally because your inviter trusted you to be a good user. When you trade the account to same random person, that trust isn't there, the person could be anybody.
you got it all wrong man. did you read my post above? if not, then please read it againQuote:
Originally Posted by Adam1990
It's like i give you nuts to eat and instead of eating it you are greedy enough to exchange for an apple =/
btw, nuts are FAR better than apple.
EDIT:
<scary>
1. the account might get to authorities as RIAR (did i spell it right?)
2. the new account holder might already have been banned
3. the new account holder might cheat, badmouth, H n' R, and might break several other rules as "leaking".
4. staff might find out and your ex-account or new account might get banned. Meanwhile, you might lose further chance of getting into the site or even worse they might forward your personal info as IP to other tracker.
5. the poor guy who invited you might get banned =/
6. if someone have a traded account, it's likely they are scared of getting caught and would not do any attention grabbing stuff as forum participation etc.
</scary>
u like nuts? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by squirr3l
Well, you're right in the sense that the same could happen with invites. You could end up inviting the wrong person.. it's a possibility of course. The difference is that one is responsible for the invites he/she gives out. If I give you an invite, it's because I've known YOU for some time, trust YOU, and want YOU to be part of a community I'm a member of, because I believe you'll be an asset there, and I want my friends over there to meet you and become a good member there, as my invitee.Quote:
Originally Posted by sina1260true. but what about you giving away the account to someone who you trust? what you said can also be applied to invites. suppose i invited someone who is a bad user, then the guy who invited me will also get in trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaffeine
so its the same thing with invites, but the rules states otherwise. (again, put yourself in the original inviter's position)
suppose i have an account at some tracker, and i have a problem in my life or whatever so that i cant use my account anymore. dont you think its better if i give it to someone who can put it in a better use? and also someone who i can trust?
I don't know your friend, how trusted can he be, what's his background, where he's been... I don't know him and I can't trust him, period. If you trust him so much, then invite him, don't give him the account that was meant to be for you and only for you.
If you're having problems, or for whatever reason you won't be able to use your account, you must delete it (or let it die). I really don't believe it's a good idea at all to give it to your friend, no matter how trusted he is on your eyes. It's not a matter of who can give a better use of the account (you or your friend). If I invited YOU, I wouldn't want anybody else to use it but you.
ohh... so if i invite him then you can trust him???? but if i give him the account then you suddenly dont know about his background or who he is?! its not like you did in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaffeineI don't know your friend, how trusted can he be, what's his background, where he's been... I don't know him and I can't trust him, period. If you trust him so much, then invite him, don't give him the account that was meant to be for you and only for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by sina1260
however about what you said that my inviter does not want anyone else to use my account then thats another story. i agree. but what if he agrees about me giving away the account? then what?
:huh: never said I would trust him if you invite him. I just implied that if you do, that would become your responsibility, not mine. YOU, as my invitee, are my responsibility,Quote:
Originally Posted by sina1260
It's not for you or your inviter to decide weather an account can be given away or not (remember that in the end, no matter how silly or incoherent it may appear, it is a rule that you should follow). What would happen if your inviter agrees with you cheating in your account? that wouldn't make it 'legal' either. In the particular example you're giving, the right thing that should be done would be for you to delete your account, and the inviter give a new invite to your common friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by sina1260
I see your point, but the rules were made in order for you to invite only people that you've known and completely trust.
I'm not trying to convince you at all, just trying to explain my point of view, and you're entitled to your opinion. I see that you're not convinced with any of the explanations given in this thread (not only by me), and you won't change your mind. But I hope you give it a though. Rules are there for a reason, we should respect them.
@ sina
No disrespect, but the answer you are looking for has already been posted in this thread.
If I read your post correctly, you are suggesting that account trading is OK if you and the person who you are giving the account to can make some kind of arrangement, and it is agreed to between the two of you, etc etc.
The problems with this approach have already been explained.
The number one rule is: It is not your account to give. Accounts are opened in two ways only: Invites or open signups. Anything done differently is against tracker rules, and if you break the rules eventually you will be caught, and your account banned, and anyone in the invite tree will get screwed over as well. It doesn't matter whether you and your mate have a deal on this account. What matters is how the tracker sees it; and any tracker of quality has absolutely no tolerance for account trading. These sites have coding scripts imbedded within that are triggered when there is a change in IP address, speed, email etc. They have records of banned IP addresses for known cheaters. Your mate may say he's cool, but if he has a bad history, the minute he takes over the account everyone associated with that account is screwed.
That is one reason that should be clear to most people, regarding why account trading is bad; but if someone doesn't care about the tracker rules, and also doesn't care about whether their actions end up banning everyone in the invite tree, well then nothing we say here will make a difference in what a person decides to do.
yeah i know. you have to follow the rule and all, but i still disagree. you cant agree on everything now can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by kaffeine
It's not for you or your inviter to decide weather an account can be given away or not (remember that in the end, no matter how silly or incoherent it may appear, it is a rule that you should follow).Quote:
Originally Posted by sina1260
kallieb: i'm not talking about account trading but giving away. but i can see your point.
rules are rules ha? lol, i guess discussion is finished:)
hopefully, because you won't get the point anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by sina1260
Well, you can't agree on all of course, but I think you can agree when you understand what's the reasoning behind a certain rule (I said it may appear to be silly or incoherent, but that is only if you don't understand what's the reason for that rule's existence).Quote:
Originally Posted by sina1260yeah i know. you have to follow the rule and all, but i still disagree. you cant agree on everything now can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by kaffeine
kallieb: i'm not talking about account trading but giving away. but i can see your point.
rules are rules ha? lol, i guess discussion is finished:)
The debate came to a 'rules are rules and you must follow' because, as kallieb said, if you don't care for the tracker and the persons involved in your tree (and if you don't understand the 'why'), then you can't be convinced otherwise.
What I'm trying to say is that, yes, those are the rules and we must follow them, but there is a coherent reason behind them, and when we understand that, it's not difficult or annoying to play by the rules. But as I said before, I see that you're not convinced with the explanations, so I guess we're just have to leave it there hehe.
:)
well account trading and selling will always be there ,no matter what...well people r differnt from one another...whatz right for someone will not be right for some one else...its just what it is.. the sooner rep's accept the fact....the easier it will ... with good comes bad...and rules will always be broken.. people always make mistakes...
we live in a beautifull world....and nothing last forever...today some community is really good..and tommorow it will be some other community..i think the community rep's should just stop acting like its a sin using a traded account....yes selling an invite or account u can justify its wrong...but not trading...its like stock markets......u just cant fight human nature.....
and speaking of rules....if everyone followed rules i dont think the bt community or a lot of intersting things in this world would exist..rules r meant to be broken..and some one or the other will break it..if not u and me.
example:
how many of the exoinkers got invited to waffles just by submitting proof...without trading for sumthng else..a hand full..
anwyas its jsut my humble opinion...and i am a nobody
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polarbear
Great example, very easy to relate to. One of my first account s on (think it was OiNK but I'm not sure - years ago) was disabled, not because I didn't maintain a decent ratio or because I broke the any rules! Very upset I went to the irc channel where they told me that it had been disabled because the guy who invited were caught cheating :dry: - At first I found it unfair, but then again how could they know that I wasn't just one of his low-life cheating friends! :ermm:
If you trade you account you're not respecting the person who invited you.. and any other person in the invite tree..
Rules? Strange one that...
Rules should be broken. The other day, I decided to drive on the opposite side of the road, just because I wanted to. Unfortunately, I hit an oncoming car, wiping out an entire family.
That wasn't the end of it though. Further along my journey, a lollipop lady walked out into the road with a stop sign, so that she could allow some kiddies to cross. Bugger that, I thought, and applied pressure to the accelerator (gas) and mowed them all down, because rules are meant to be broken.
So, why do these stupid politicians make rules for. Someone did mention about anarchy, when no one knows what the other person is doing. Apparently, an ordered society is one where a set of rules are created to ensure that we all pull in the same direction.
Many call these rules etiquette. For example, when someone gives you something, you say 'Thank you', not 'Go get stuffed'. You open a door for a lady, not slam it in her face. You take care of your children and attempt to keep them out of harms way (unless your Michael Jackson who loves dangling children from high balconies).
Even on a more general note, we all tend to drive on the same side of the road as each other. We wait while the person in front is being served (queueing). We accept direction from police officers who attempt to maintain order for the bulk of us.
There are conditions for all things in life. We don't buy a car then dictate to the car salesman which order we want the pedals placed. They comes as Accelerator, Brake and Clutch, and always will. We don't get on a bus or coach, then tell the driver where we want to go, as they have set routes.
These rules are enforced, so if we do contradict the rules, such as forcing the coach driver, at gunpoint, to go our own route, then the police will arrest us (or shoot us).
It is no different to a torrent site account (or a library card). Each account has been created for the individual concerned. We wouldn't offer our medical slot to a stranger, so why offer an account slot. Who knows what damage could be done in our own name?
It's called respect. We respect that rules are required so that we can all co-exist in harmony. Without rules, life would be a much different place.
Scenario. Imagine a world without rules, where the RIAA decides to send out assassins rather than sue filesharers. Imagine having a gun pointed at you, and being ordered to buy their latest CD, or suffer the consequences.
Damn... Even if we do away with the sane rules, organisations like the RIAA would then enforce their insane rules, so we don't get away from rules at all.
^^ Bravo - well said as usual.
One point to clarify. I do not distinguish between account trading and account giveaway. Neither example is appropriate for the reasons mentioned above.
If you invite him, you are responsible for him, and his actions on the site, cheating, trading, bad ratio etc hence why the old adage of only invite someone you know always prevails.Quote:
Originally Posted by sina1260ohh... so if i invite him then you can trust him???? but if i give him the account then you suddenly dont know about his background or who he is?! its not like you did in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaffeine
however about what you said that my inviter does not want anyone else to use my account then thats another story. i agree. but what if he agrees about me giving away the account? then what?
If you give him an account, you are not responsible for him in any way, the inviter of that account is (and if its a traded account god knows where it started), so anything can be done without any respect or due diligence to anyone further up, or further down, the tree as the new account holder will prob not know anyone in that tree.
Society does not allow you to absolve yourself of all responsibilities, or there would be no society to talk of, all your actions have consequences and in this case account trading (which includes giving away for free with or without the inviters consent without anything expected in return) is not allowed and which is why it is written in the rules.
Ignorance of the rules is no defence for breaking the rules either.