Programming ....

Printable View

07-23-2003, 07:51 PM
TRshady

ok, people ... after spending years just mucking about with pcs, building them, having a go at making a web site, trying out different software and mastering certain games I have chosen my next step in becoming a PC master. :)

This be programming!, I want to start making software, probably not associated with k-lite though you never know but I plan on starting off by making little programs such as cleaning cookies, clean up etc. So I have some questions.

Where do I start?
How hard is it really?
Is it possible to protect software from being copied and claimed by someone else?

More q's to come. :)
07-23-2003, 08:29 PM
vampiro

Quote:

Where do I start?

get a copy of Visual basic probulary the most easiest lang to pick up

Quote:

How hard is it really?

some bits are hard and some bits are easy(ya tend to foget the easy bits) most of it is just repeating the code depending on ehat you are doing

Quote:

Is it possible to protect software from being copied and claimed by someone else

it maybe be possable but some one sooner or later will decomplie it anyhow
07-23-2003, 08:33 PM
TRshady

ok, thank you, that has helped. I'll go get VB now. Cheers. :)
07-23-2003, 08:44 PM
4play

Quote:

get a copy of Visual basic probulary the most easiest lang to pick up

your sick :o

here

there is a good tutorial and a interperator on that site so your set ;)
07-23-2003, 08:46 PM
shn

Quote:

Originally posted by TRshady@23 July 2003 - 14:33
ok, thank you, that has helped. I'll go get VB now. Cheers.  :)

Vb is not going to help you if your completely clueless to programming. You have to have a little knowlege regarding at least c or c++ (although not required) to really be a proficient programmer. Here's a useful link that may help you.

And btw vampiro its disassemble not decompile. You can build and compile, but you cant decompile. Disassemble comes from the original hard-core not used anymore language called assembly language, where programmers had to code in machine language with only about a 64k memory enviorment to do it in. Had to really suck :ph34r:

http://www.free-ed.net/catalog/itcat01.asp...20and%20Scripts

Quote:

NOTE: Although Visual Basic is a comprehensive programming tool, VB retains its BASIC language heritage. Designers in the late 1950s developed the BASIC programming language for beginning programmers. BASIC was easier to use than other programming languages of the time, such as COBOL and FORTRAN. Microsoft never forgot VB's roots when developing Visual Basic. Newcomers to programming can learn to create simple but working Windows programs in just a short time.
07-23-2003, 08:48 PM
TRshady

wow, after having a quick look for visual basic I realised it was not free and looks bloody confusing. I though there was only one programming language.

I'll go through the begginners guide, will this allow me to create programs?

What does Paul\Random nut use?
Is this the same as companies like Norton?

Thanks.
07-23-2003, 08:49 PM
Illuminati

I started learning the universal things of programming by writing in Pascal - It was a DOS-based programming language, but it was easy to get into (with the right books telling you how to declare, etc).

Not sure whether a copy of Turbo Pascal (the program which wrote Pascal) is still around, but the closest commercial thing you can try nowadays is Borland Delphi - Delphi is kinda like the next step from Pascal; Object-Orientated Pascal for Windows, if you want to call it that.

If I was able to get a CIT (Cambridge Information Technology) certificate in Computer Programming at 13 years old, then you can sure as hell learn it easily :D
07-23-2003, 08:51 PM
4play

Quote:

not used anymore language called assembly language

shocked to hear you say that shn. it was used to make the k++ loader wasn't it.

it is still the best language to learn to make fast, compact application's but is bloody hard to say the least.
07-23-2003, 08:59 PM
shn

Quote:

Originally posted by 4play@23 July 2003 - 14:51

Quote:

not used anymore language called assembly language

shocked to hear you say that shn. it was used to make the k++ loader wasn't it.

it is still the best language to learn to make fast, compact application's but is bloody hard to say the least.

Your half way right. The reason I say halfway is because you and I both know that no one is going to sit down and write a "complex" program in raw machine language.

Even projects where there are a mass number of programmers working on it would never code in machine language. It would simply be a waste of time and unecessary work.

A simple loader or a program thats only going to fit into a couple hundred k of memory wouldnt be bad at all. But when it comes to writing complex programs with thousands of lines of code its simply not going to happen.
07-23-2003, 09:15 PM
4play

Quote:

program in raw machine language.

assembly is a step up from the raw code a machine uses but your damn right no body in their right mind would do a complex app using asm.

still it is still a much used language for small parts of projects. the way compilers keep improving as well means that c++ and the such run very quickly anyway so performance is not really too much of an issue any more.

lets get this back on track peeps if you are interested in pascal shady pm me and i will send you the borlands pascal compiler.

this might help as well here
07-23-2003, 09:20 PM
TRshady

lol, this is confusing and I haven't even started yet.

So what program shall I get and where do I get it from please?
07-23-2003, 10:15 PM
shn

Quote:

Originally posted by TRshady@23 July 2003 - 15:20
lol, this is confusing and I haven't even started yet.

So what program shall I get and where do I get it from please?

The main thing to do is to find some good books whether they be online or in a library. And if your really serious about getting into it then I recommend you take a couple classes at your local community college, or go to a university like me.

Nevertheless, your going to need a a good compiler. Borland makes good compilers. But I prefer gcc the opensource c compiler. That is mostly used on linux but now with the new cygin enviorment you can make and install programs under windows, or you can simply compile gcc from source on a windows box.................lol, compiling a compiler :lol: Anyway take advantage of the tools your being offered here in the forum, If youve got a chance to get them then I would do so if I were you. Programming suites and other development tools can cost thousands of dollars, unless their opensource, so If you can get them from someone on the forum or off kazaa that would probably be better

Most importantly, decide a language you would like to learn and just stick with it, then you can gradually start to explore other languages.

Im a c++ person myself. But you have to make the choice based on what you like and feel better working with. :lol: Good Luck
07-23-2003, 10:45 PM
gadfly

I too want to expand my (limited) computer skills by learning some programming. I've picked up a book on C++ . It looked like learning it would be a good foundation from which to expand to other programming languages.

I've also been looking at Java - and wondering whether it might be equally worth learning.

Can anyone provide a 'thumbnail' comparison of these languages - the pro's and con's of each etc. Any advice?

Gadfly
07-23-2003, 11:02 PM
4play

Quote:

I too want to expand my (limited) computer skills by learning some programming. I've picked up a book on C++ . It looked like learning it would be a good foundation from which to expand to other programming languages.

I've also been looking at Java - and wondering whether it might be equally worth learning.

Can anyone provide a 'thumbnail' comparison of these languages - the pro's and con's of each etc. Any advice?

Gadfly

comparison hey that would take ages so lets put it this way.

learn a bit of both and you decide its the only real way

@shn cool did not know i could compile gcc under windows
07-24-2003, 12:47 AM
scott_hedrick

Quote:

Originally posted by shn+23 July 2003 - 21:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shn @ 23 July 2003 - 21:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-4play@23 July 2003 - 14:51

Quote:

not used anymore language called assembly language

shocked to hear you say that shn. it was used to make the k++ loader wasn't it.

it is still the best language to learn to make fast, compact application's but is bloody hard to say the least.

Your half way right. The reason I say halfway is because you and I both know that no one is going to sit down and write a "complex" program in raw machine language.

Even projects where there are a mass number of programmers working on it would never code in machine language. It would simply be a waste of time and unecessary work.

A simple loader or a program thats only going to fit into a couple hundred k of memory wouldnt be bad at all. But when it comes to writing complex programs with thousands of lines of code its simply not going to happen. [/b][/quote]
@shn - I am sorry to nitpick, but being a computer graphics guy, I would like to say that assembly language programming is indeed used by very large scale projects consisiting of several thousand lines at least.

I am using asm, as part of a team of 7, to write some very complex custom shaders for Mental Ray which provide visual effects that would otherwise take weeks/months to render, and can now be done in a few days or a week.

Do not discount the value of asm, since when you need code to be absolutely the fastest it can possibly be, and yet remain small enough to stay resident in the CPUs' small caches, then you have no other choice.

The best compiler today for Intel CPUs (Intel ICC) simply cannot compete with its generated code to the asm performance-wise, nor can it manage to produce code that is reasonably small.

Please do not think that compilers are good enough that asm is no longer used for large projects. I certainly hope that compilers are someday good enough, but that day is still far off.

Spending 6 weeks writing those shaders saved us about 4 months so far in rendering time, and a lot of money in processor time at a render-farm. Its still in use today, so its still saving us time and money and headache etc...

Sorry for that rant... :)

Scott
07-24-2003, 01:47 AM
I.am

As a programmer myself I agree with Scott. Even in deep encryption program or in big programs some part of the programs are written in asm. That is the only language in which you can directly access the registers.
But I do agree on the point that no one will right big programs completely in asm. Simple programs take extra time and code to right. But the best part of asm is that the program file size is hardly anything and I love that.

@Shady, shn gave nice suggestions. Pick a language (high-level right now --> C++, Java, etc) and start with it. Get the tutorials and get it going. And as mentioned before Visual Basic is a good language too. Once you know the logic you can code in any language ;) That is the best part about programming.