Anyone Who Joins The Army...

agree or disagree?

i would agree, since i keep coming across stories like this year after year:

TOKYO (Reuters) - A U.S. Marine pleaded guilty on Thursday to charges of raping a woman on Japan's southern island of Okinawa, a U.S. forces spokesman said, in a case that stirred fresh resentment against the U.S. military presence there.

Lance Corporal Jose W. Torres, 21, was arrested by Okinawan police in June on suspicion of raping a 19-year-old Japanese woman after punching her in the face in the early hours of May 25 in an entertainment area near a U.S. base.

He was later indicted by prosecutors in Okinawa.

In the first court session of his trial in the Okinawan capital Naha, Torres pleaded guilty to charges of rape and assault, said Colonel Victor Warzinski, U.S. Forces Japan director of public affairs.

"I'm able to confirm that Lance Corporal Torres did in fact plead guilty... The charges as I understand it are rape and assault," Warzinski said.

An official at the Naha District Court said the next court session for Torres has been set for August 13.

Okinawa is home to about half the U.S. military presence in Japan and incidents such as the 1995 rape of a 12-year-old Japanese girl by three American servicemen have prompted calls to shift the U.S. troops away or reduce their numbers.

Not everyone. A lot of patriotic and brave people join armies.

Unfortunately, they don't make the papers as often as the assholes who abuse their postion.

I reckon that first question could be considered trolling

I don't agree with the top statement, although it is true that the army does attract a number of violent individuals for obvious reasons.
I could easily counter with something just as inflammatory:

I think these people are the lowest of the low:

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From The New York Times

A few weeks ago I wrote about Zafran Bibi who was convicted of adultery by a Pakistani court and sentenced to death by stoning. The New York Times' Seth Mydans recently wrote an in-depth look at Zafran's fate as well as the status of the sharia law in Pakistan.

Zafran claims that while her husband was serving a jail term for murder, her brother-in-law repeatedly raped her, eventually resulting in a pregnancy. When Zafran reported the rape, she was charged with adultery. All charges against her alleged rapist were dropped due to insufficient evidence, whereas Zafran was tried and convicted of adultery.

Mydans offers a relatively thorough look at Pakistan's hudood laws that resulted in this result. For example, under the 23-year old set of laws, whether or not Zafran was raped is irrelevant to her own adultery charge. Mydans reports that the laws formally ban "all forms of adultery, whether the offense is committed with or without the consent of the parties."

So a woman who claims she was raped is by definition admitting that she is guilty of adultery, with the lack of consent being a mere side issue.

Under those same hudood laws, however, it is almost impossible for Zafran or any other woman to make a rape charge against a man stick. The law only allows a charge of rape to proceed against a man if four Muslim men testify to having witnessed the rape. Mydans quotes Rukhshanda Naz who heads up a branch of a women's rights group known as Aurat as saying,

    The proof is totally impossible. If a woman brings a charge of rape, she puts herself in grave danger.

Mydans reports that as many as half of women who report rapes are later charged with committing adultery. As a result, few women make rape accusations. In addition, the laws about rape kick in as soon as a woman hits puberty, leading to girls as young as 12 or 13 being imprisoned for reporting being raped.

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Disagree.

That would be the same reasoning as reading a story about a mother who had abused a child and then saying 'becoming a Mother is the lowest of the low.'

The one soldier convicted is the lowest of the low. He alone is responsible for his own actions, wouldn't you agree?.

I alone am responsible for my actions. (that is responsibility enough, sometimes!!!!) :-)

Neverose

Another example of idiotic reasoning.

hypoluxa3k

Who then, would you ask to protect your freedom?

The people you so easily dismiss are willing to give their lives in order to protect those incapable or unwilling.

you also forget those who use the military as a lifeline and a real route out of poverty. The training available can give people successful careers after they have done their time in.

Unless your prepared to get a gun and fight for your country then you have no cause attacking such bravery for the faults of a few.

Neil.

so ilw? you're saying asians like me are lowest of the low?
if you wanted to post that, do it in your own post instead of this one.

and to the others, fair points, all i wanted to know was if you agree or disagree (sheesh! :rolleyes: )

and neil, who are the army going to protect my freedom from?
wake up, there is no threat to a tiny little island like the UK, unless our PM sticks his nose into business that does not concern him. oh wait...

rapists and paedophiles are the lowest of the low
[followed by orthodontists, conservative politicians and newspaper owners]

too many people have been in the military to make such a claim

it is a bit strange that there is a profession which pays one to become a professional murderer [or accomplice/accessory to murder]

depending on when, where and who you murder you get a medal or a prison sentence [or your own murder in lots of US states]

hypoluxa3k :: where does Neil__ hassle you on account of being asian? [i had no idea what colour you were until you mentioned it]

hypoluxa3k

I think it obvious I disagree.

I assume from your retort that you are in faviour of unilateral disarmament in the U.K.

do you believe that without a military we still wouldn't be at threat?

Well you have more faith in human nature than I.

Or is it you expect others to protect us?

Neil.
Edit

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hypoluxa3k :: where does Neil__ hassle you on account of being asian? [i had no idea what colour you were until you mentioned it]

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Echidna, you got the wrong man, But thanks all the same.

Neil

I never said asians and i don't think anyone could ever construe that i meant asians. I just pointed out that I thought there were a lot lower people than american soldiers and gave the example of people, who think that the aspect of sharia law I mentioned, is fair. The comment was supposed to be inflammatory because u seem to be very proud of the islamic faith (which i am guessing u r a member of).

i was in the military so why you want to call me the lowest of the low? might want to check the forum rules, dumbass

Oh wow, a soldier Rapes some poor girl.

How is he lower than say, a Dentist that does it or a Dustman?

They are ALL scum if they do this...the profession they are in is just that...A Job.


Soldiers arent paid to "murder" people.

There is a distinct difference between Murder and an Armed Conflict.


And like HeavyMetalParkingLot...I dont particularly like being called the lowest of the low.

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Originally posted by Neil__@24 July 2003 - 22:48

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hypoluxa3k :: where does Neil__ hassle you on account of being asian? [i had no idea what colour you were until you mentioned it]

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Echidna, you got the wrong man, But thanks all the same.

Neil

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sorry Neil__

ED. Oh i see now,
ilw, pakistan is definetely in asia, so pakistanis are asians
and stating that you think 'these people' or the lowest of the low does sound a lot like an ethnic slur

PS the arabs gave us our math [and indians gave us zero] without which all this digital wiz bangery wouldn't happen [not to mention that korea manufactures most of the worlds RAM chips]

asians are great [as any other 'race']

echidna.

China invented Black Powder.

Gunpowder

And the Sudan and Iran gave us the written word.

Cuniform Writing System

what more can we say

Neil

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PS the arabs gave us our math [and indians gave us zero] without which all this digital wiz bangery wouldn't happen [not to mention that korea manufactures most of the worlds RAM chips

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Thanks for that little reminder, i knew someone would bring it up. I used to live with greeks so i've heard all the arguments about how important such cultures were in the beginning. In my experience the comments usually come from cultures/countries which have given us very little in the last thousand years. They may have given us the initial foundations but theres a huge bloody skyscraper which is far more impressive sitting on top.
Just because Pakistan is in asia (yes thanks for that, i was aware its in asia) doesn't mean that i was including all asians in the statement. As i made it abundantly clear later on i was talking about people who think that women are less worthy human beings and people that think that its a good idea that when a women is raped she has almost no legal recourse and if she should become pregnant is presumed guilty and killed (by stoning no less) or punished severely. Sorry i forgot she is forced to have the baby then killed.

Its not an ethnic slur, I stated a purposefully irritating opinion (only as irritating as hypoluxa's initial comment) that people who hold such beliefs are in this day and age barbarous and therefore i pointed out that perhaps they were the lowest of the low.

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Originally posted by ilw@25 July 2003 - 02:07

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PS the arabs gave us our math [and indians gave us zero] without which all this digital wiz bangery wouldn't happen [not to mention that korea manufactures most of the worlds RAM chips

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Thanks for that little reminder, i knew someone would bring it up. I used to live with greeks so i've heard all the arguments about how important such cultures were in the beginning. In my experience the comments usually come from cultures/countries which have given us very little in the last thousand years. They may have given us the initial foundations but theres a huge bloody skyscraper which is far more impressive sitting on top.
Just because Pakistan is in asia (yes thanks for that, i was aware its in asia) doesn't mean that i was including all asians in the statement. As i made it abundantly clear later on i was talking about people who think that women are less worthy human beings and people that think that its a good idea that when a women is raped she has almost no legal recourse and if she should become pregnant is presumed guilty and killed (by stoning no less) or punished severely. Sorry i forgot she is forced to have the baby then killed.

Its not an ethnic slur, I stated a purposefully irritating opinion (only as irritating as hypoluxa's initial comment) that people who hold such beliefs are in this day and age barbarous and therefore i pointed out that perhaps they were the lowest of the low.

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haven't you seen what a f#cking mess skyscrapers make when the fall down?

given the choice between good falafel or yum cha vs. a big mac® or KFC®
i'd choose the former every time

[& baklava is way better than hersey's too] :: good luck to you

'he who forgets the past is destined to repeat it'

just another purposefully irritating opinion

i'm a muslim, i'm proud of my beliefs, but i can also question my religion (as the quran states, challenge the quran, seek the truth) and i find it hard to take when i see so called 'muslims' create their own 'laws'.
like the bastards who decided to stone the woman to death for 'adultery' is ridiculous.

of course, i still believe our homeland should have an army.
i think my original post should have been "why this occupation of other countries?" since it only causes tension and hate and fucked up incidents?

i think army recruitment should be done the old fashioned way (mandatory service) and if they refuse? eh, give em a fine or community service ;) . i would definitely defend my country...if only it was being invaded, rather than bombing a country that is no threat to britain what so ever (iraq, afghanistan)

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Originally posted by hypoluxa3k@24 July 2003 - 17:36

of course, i still believe our homeland should have an army.
i think my original post should have been "why this occupation of other countries?" since it only causes tension and hate and fucked up incidents?

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Could you back up any more.

That's nothing like your original trolling post.

so are you saying the rat_faced and Shock&Awe are the lowest of the low?

I am not going to waste my time telling you how wrong you are, but for you to say something like that, you must be mentally retarded.. so i won't hurt your head any more.

i'm considering the armed forces, does that make me a terrible person?

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Originally posted by kAb@24 July 2003 - 19:58
i'm considering the armed forces, does that make me a terrible person?

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maybe not a terrible person, maybe just someone with no direction in their life, like the school dodgers at my school who decided armed forces were for them.

Hypo

Some people don't agree with you. That does not make them wrong or bad people. Even if you do try to pick fights with them

I for one would never have joined the armed forces, however it may be a good life choice for some people.

Good luck with whatever you chose Kab.

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Originally posted by hypoluxa3k@24 July 2003 - 17:36
i think army recruitment should be done the old fashioned way (mandatory service) and if they refuse? eh, give em a fine or community service

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So it's the military for the poor and uneducated.
Is that a sacrafice your prepared for these portions of society to make.

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i would definitely defend my country...if only it was being invaded, rather than bombing a country that is no threat to britain what so ever (iraq, afghanistan)

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And not a thought for your fellow Muslims in an hour of need.

Neil.

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Originally posted by hypoluxa3k@24 July 2003 - 11:10

TOKYO (Reuters) - A U.S. Marine pleaded guilty on Thursday to charges of raping a woman on Japan's southern island of Okinawa, a U.S. forces spokesman said, in a case that stirred fresh resentment against the U.S. military presence there.

Lance Corporal Jose W. Torres, 21, was arrested by Okinawan police in June on suspicion of raping a 19-year-old Japanese woman after punching her in the face in the early hours of May 25 in an entertainment area near a U.S. base.

He was later indicted by prosecutors in Okinawa.

In the first court session of his trial in the Okinawan capital Naha, Torres pleaded guilty to charges of rape and assault, said Colonel Victor Warzinski, U.S. Forces Japan director of public affairs.

"I'm able to confirm that Lance Corporal Torres did in fact plead guilty... The charges as I understand it are rape and assault," Warzinski said.

An official at the Naha District Court said the next court session for Torres has been set for August 13.

Okinawa is home to about half the U.S. military presence in Japan and incidents such as the 1995 rape of a 12-year-old Japanese girl by three American servicemen have prompted calls to shift the U.S. troops away or reduce their numbers.

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while your at it, let's not forget Idi Amin, a former member of the BritishColonial King's African Rifles, who later gain control of Uganda and oversaw the torture and killing of over 200,000 Ugandan civilians.

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Originally posted by Neil__@24 July 2003 - 21:12

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i would definitely defend my country...if only it was being invaded, rather than bombing a country that is no threat to britain what so ever (iraq, afghanistan)

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And not a thought for your fellow Muslims in an hour of need.

Neil.

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WTF&#33; does that mean? :angry: <_<

people like you would abandon &#39;my fellow muslims&#39; (british muslims) if they went to fight for the country that was defending themselves against the invaders (US) and charged with treason. with no right to a fair trial.

and i never said military service for the poor and uneducated, i meant for ANYONE who is called up. but you would have the right to say no, or something.

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Originally posted by hypoluxa3k@25 July 2003 - 08:23

and i never said military service for the poor and uneducated, i meant for ANYONE who is called up. but you would have the right to say no, or something.

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Voluntary conscription now. That&#39;s a serious oxymoron.

If you want some of us can help you to find the plot, you have obviously lost it.

Now, would voluntary conscription lean more towards a "strongly encouraged" programme, or a "lax charges" one?

:ninja:

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Originally posted by hypoluxa3k+25 July 2003 - 08:23--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hypoluxa3k &#064; 25 July 2003 - 08:23)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Neil__@24 July 2003 - 21:12

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i would definitely defend my country...if only it was being invaded, rather than bombing a country that is no threat to britain what so ever (iraq, afghanistan)

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And not a thought for your fellow Muslims in an hour of need.

Neil.

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WTF&#33; does that mean? :angry: <_<

people like you would abandon &#39;my fellow muslims&#39; (british muslims) if they went to fight for the country that was defending themselves against the invaders (US) and charged with treason. with no right to a fair trial.

and i never said military service for the poor and uneducated, i meant for ANYONE who is called up. but you would have the right to say no, or something. [/b][/quote]



BULLSHIT.

I HAVE AND WILL NOT ABANDON ANYONE.

Read my thread befor you critisise my comvictions about my fellow countrymen.

Has George Bush, Decided the penalty

It seems to me that you are convinced that Muslims have no support from anyone and it&#39;s that sort of self alienation that helps feed the bigotry.

I suggest you check to see if someone shares any of your views before jumping on the first available phrase that suits your ranting.

Pick a fight with someone else I&#39;m the wrong target.

Neil.

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Originally posted by MagicNakor@25 July 2003 - 08:56
Now, would voluntary conscription lean more towards a "strongly encouraged" programme, or a "lax charges" one?

:ninja:

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I think Strongarm would suit hypoluxa.

He seem&#39;s to think military conscription is for everyone else.

Neil.

Hypo,

I re-read your original question, and I wish there were a way you could walk awhile as a citizen of the US, just to know how it is here and not have to rely on a lot of press for your information.

But I want you to know that I am sure this rapist was not supported by his fellow soldiers once he was convicted. I am sure they agree with you, that this man was the lowest of the low. And detested his actions probably more so than you do, because of being concerned that his actions may be perceived to represent the behavior of all US soldiers, which it most definitely did not.

US soldiers come from various backgrounds, as do all humans in any endeavours.

My parents banned me from watching news at home during the Vietnam war because it tore at the very core of me watching the body counts, etc.

I have friends, guys that I have a lot of respect for that were either drafted or enlisted in the service during this time. Regardless of the right or wrong of the war, they were involved because they love their country and the American way of life and want to protect our freedoms. I will always feel I owe them.

Don&#39;t bother trying to enlist me in an argument about the Vietnam War. My focus here is on human beings as soldiers in any war.

They are human beings, with all the human weaknesses, and all of the wonderful human strengths. Soldiers of the US Military are no different than any other orginization, in that they represent all factors of the human race.

Just as we as members of this forum do, hypo.

Take Care,

Neverose