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I see people who have been at nice, top level trackers a week, and are asking for even higher trackers >> I see brand spanking new FST accounts (~1mo old) with under 50 post requesting top level trackers >> I see users saying free leech should be mandatory >> I see posts asking which trackers it is OK to hit n run at
Quick question: Have torrenters become lazy? Does loyalty and dedication exist anymore?
lazy no greedy yes and hit n run aint ever ok where do noobs get that idea?
I have to chuckle each time I see someone asking for a "level" and not a specific tracker.
To answer your question from personal experience: there are a couple of trackers which are my favorites and I make an honest effort to be the best member I can be. Then there are other trackers I feel no deep affiliation with and I do maybe not the bare minimum but not overly much to keep my membership.
Loyalty & dedication is 2 way, and when sysops kick you in the balls and ban you just for having a laugh, and then totally ignores you, gotta ask is it really worth it. Not the best example to be setting I would say.
So what is wrong in asking for what someone wants, we live in a world of want it now & demand it now kids, it's only natural that it is carried over into other aspects of peoples personal lives.
It is up to the majority of us to set the standards of what is required, not only in torrenting & downloading etc, and you will get those that try the quick way in, some will succeed but most will not.
Continue to set an example yourself of what you expect from giving your loyalty & dedication to the cause, and eventually the message will get through, but don't expect a quick fix of the message to get through either :)
the rarity crap in torrents has ruined everything . PERIOD
I have to agree. There was such a commotion on what.cd about not enough downloading and the mods gave everyone 10GB to get em to shut up! (This was towards the site's beginning). Even ScT gave members 10GB recently to give incentive to people who feel they only can download during free leech periods. All I can think is there has to be some responsibility from both users and site mods on what is reasonable - not everyone will be able to maintain 1.0 for a variety of reasons. On the user side, it just takes a bit of time to maintain ratio and most importantly to keep seeding! Some people are just impatient and dig too big a hole. So many people complain about low ratio I go look at their stats and they're seeding 2 things or nothing!!Quote:
Originally Posted by DV8type
A large majority of idiots is to be expected on a public forum and yea the level's don't help.
it's a combination of some negative attributes that people have acquired. Some (or many) have become collectors, who don't care for the communities they're becoming a part of. For them, it's just a game "good, I got this one.. which one is next".. as long as there is a "higher level" to posses, nothing will ever be sufficient.
Some beleive that because they are part of these "high level" sites, they are above others, and that they are entitled to some benefits.. they have rights. (we sometimes forget that we have the privilege to be part of these communities).
The problem is that many don't become part of the community, they just hunt for the next best thing, and adopt this negative mentality of 'what is it that I can take from this site' rather than 'how can I help to improve this community'. They never understand what does it mean to be part of a community, they just want to say they are part of it... so they can feel special, and add another trophy to their signatures.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DV8type
Agreed...I don't know about others but I enjoy uploading - gives me a sense of "worth" online lol. But there are plenty who want want want and I don't know how they do it, but are probably members of 40 sites! As for hit n run..never heard of it ;)!Quote:
Originally Posted by Totti
Also if free leech was mandatory wouldn't there be no point to sharing?! Thought free leech was just to help/reward members with now and again..making it mandatory is pointless imo.
DV8type I'm waiting for you to beg me to join FSC.
i try to be the best...its weird when some sites say no overseeding on torrents? But i do agree people have gotten lazy and greedy
I suppose a lot of it has to do with lack of education of the private trackers world. For a lot of those 1mo old users FST is the first stop in the private trackers world. They usually have some experience with either other sorts of filesharing or public trackers, where HnR is the norm and it's practically a constant freeleech due to lack of enforcement. These users are simply continuing with the patterns they're accustomed to because they haven't been taught anything better yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by DV8type
Regarding users with 50 posts requesting top level trackers - some of it should be blamed on the users which are becoming greedy (human nature, I suppose), but I think some of the blame should also be put on the staff members of trackers, because their decisions regarding who to invite and who not to invite lacks clarity in many cases, and it's not always the most contributing members that are rewarded. If you've been following giveaways by top level trackers (not FSC, by the way) in the last few months, I'm sure you'll know what I mean.
So greed is the answer :ermm:
Is that also the reason why new trackers pop up daily?
I say its greed. If FSC was let's say a lvl 2 tracker, you would rarely ever c any requests for it. Everyone wants something that's rare n elite
To be honest, I can't see the connection between greed and new trackers popping up.
^^ Your right but there is certainly a connection between greed n rarity
you do have a point hereQuote:
Originally Posted by pro267
i have nothing against respected member who ask for invites on FST, but i have less patience for people who ask ftn invite as first bt invite post
For the free leech people would want all the time, well this model has been doing well on FTN for a while, i believe FSC would do just fine with this system also because people care about being a member there
hit-n-run is the ultimate lazyness act and i would never condone it, unless you have a 5 gigs hard drive (who does?) what is the problem to share for a week...?
Don't generalise me... I've been here a few weeks.
I'm not lazy!!!
I don't get how hit-n-run is lazy?? It's certainly foolish but not lazy.....I mean ur not doing any physical hard work, all u have to do is just let ur BitTorrent client run, how hard is that?? The people who hit-n-run r just stupid in my opinion, not lazy.
lazy because it requires a minimal effort to watch how long you have been seeding stuff in order to stop it at the right time
I think people just believe that because there is an open forum for invite giving and trading that is easy to access, then that must mean it is inherently easy to get an invite. So if you were going to ask for an invite which you thought would just be given away, which one would you ask for?
Sure there are lots of people who think this way, but so long as those with invites don't just give them away like candy, all that will be lost is a few seconds of your time sifting through posts.
the greed is FOR the rarity levels, RoSsoNeRI . thats how simple it is . somewhere along the line they even forget what things they like to download, but will go on asking just becos they dont have that rare site yet . the mentality of the ppl here is to get in every goddamn tracker present and more rarer site , more they will give big expalnations of community and act like Martin Luther King on the forum to gain those invites . even tho i have not posted much in the earlier years , but from 2 years i am here i have seen the same pattern . they come , for 2-3 months beg till death , make friends solely for getting rare trackers and in the end they get disappeared into oblivion .
the new mentality i have seen nowadays of these idiots is to get a new site asap which emphasizes on being rare , so that incase the site works out , later then can brag they have this rare site from a long time .....
i have respected the trackers , whatever sites and whatever objectives they have are fine with me , but always hated those "fake" goody-goody ppl here who beg for rare sites for their "community" .seriously wtf .
Its like "i want to join the army so that i can play basketball with them" :wacko:
Basically the problem here is the many ppl have forgotten to use their basic logic , and relying on some list . does it take a rarity list to convince that its a rare site so it must having a better community ? how do you know you will be adjusted to that kind of a torrent site ? It depends upon yourself where you will be suited . it maybe lvl 1 or lvl 100 rarity , its about the ppl u feel comfartable to talk to and have a nice chat .
Should the education start at FST? or should they be invited to the private tracker to learn the hard way?Quote:
Originally Posted by pro267
Should even a low level tracker have to deal with greedy, ungrateful and uneducated users?
You r right on the money there dude, I have only been here for less then 3 months, but I have noticed that aswell.....as soon as they get w.e they wanted....PEACE!! u rarely ever c them againQuote:
Originally Posted by SaviouR
Actually at one point I had a slow connection (15 KB/s) and only 2 GB free on a 30 GB HD (still use the hard drive but cleaned and re-installed windows). So i know how tight it can get..but rather than hit n run I just downloaded much less... I had good ratios that suffered but always maintained them at 1, and tried to upload 1:1 at least on each torrent!Quote:
Originally Posted by KFlintyou do have a point hereQuote:
Originally Posted by pro267
i have nothing against respected member who ask for invites on FST, but i have less patience for people who ask ftn invite as first bt invite post
For the free leech people would want all the time, well this model has been doing well on FTN for a while, i believe FSC would do just fine with this system also because people care about being a member there
hit-n-run is the ultimate lazyness act and i would never condone it, unless you have a 5 gigs hard drive (who does?) what is the problem to share for a week...?
well,
i agree it wasn't like that 3 or 4 months ago but we have to pardon new members .
you see, they enter the invite section and see many request threads so they just copycat them ; this man asking for ftwr .why don't i do the same thing ?!
another thing , old members here used to tell us to make friends and contribute to the fst community first. now, no one tells anyone anything ;they just spam any request thread by words like "you won't get it" ,"you are noob" ..etc
when i first enter this forum, i was looking for invites but from my stay here and knowing people and talk to them ; i understand that rarity and levels and all this crab are nothing comparing to have friends or find a tracker that has -beside its content and speed - warm community .
i guess some members here lack patience and there is no one anymore is giving the effort to guide them .
I also agree with Saviour's post, I have been a member here long enough to have seen many members hit the ground running trade their little ass of then do a big hasta la vista and disappear, thanks got what I wanted cya........., although I try and say the same thing time & time again blah blah blah, it is honestly water off a ducks back in many cases.
There are some that are genuinely into filesharing as a community thing the way it was on the bulletin boards etc, and for them bit torrent is the latest phase in an evolution, and then there are the others who think they have the right to belong to (fill in the blanks but it usually begins with f) but dont really care about the trackers at all, it is just the latest one that is perceived as l33t ?
There is of course one advantage for trackers at the high end of the spectrum, users tend to be far more careful with their a/c's, the various threads that sound like someone has died when someone has been banned from a high end tracker can be quite entertaining (for the over emotion involved). But other trackers that aren't rated as highly are discarded like duplicate baseball cards...........
I think though that a forum like this can teach some to be more community minded and I have seen this happen too, so there is hope it is just a case of trying to show others that there is another way..........
loyalty and good users are out there, its just with a place like this being open to anyone the majority of people will just bullshit to get the highest level they can get to so they can show off how big their e-penis is. i just feel bad for the people out there who actually want into a site for the right reasons but are overlooked since there are 20 other bullshit requests surrounding it. i guess its just the responsibility of the inviters to try to cut through all the bullshit around here and find the users that will be dedicated.
I definitely think that both more experienced FST members and FST as a forum can help in educating new members. I believe that in the last few months, more and more established members are trying to give advice from their experience to new users. If more site staffers would stop bitching about how FST is such a lousy forum and actually take some time to share their thoughts and experience here then things may actually improve with time.Quote:
Originally Posted by DV8type
FST as a forum with a strong BT community can also help in educating new users. For example, a nice PM (translated to multiple languages) explaining basic private tracker rules and code of conduct could be automatically sent to every member gaining entrance to the invites section.
To sum it up, my point is that people can learn and evolve with proper guidance. In "people" I include FST members, in case you've wondered. :P
edit :happy:
off topic sorry but freeleech is good thing to any one have slow conaction
this reply is really great :)Quote:
I definitely think that both more experienced FST members and FST as a forum can help in educating new members. I believe that in the last few months, more and more established members are trying to give advice from their experience to new users. If more site staffers would stop bitching about how FST is such a lousy forum and actually take some time to share their thoughts and experience here then things may actually improve with time.
FST as a forum with a strong BT community can also help in educating new users. For example, a nice PM (translated to multiple languages) explaining basic private tracker rules and code of conduct could be automatically sent to every member gaining entrance to the invites section.
To sum it up, my point is that people can learn and evolve with proper guidance. In "people" I include FST members, in case you've wondered. http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../.....ies/tongue.gif
yes, we should all help each other out, i guess that's what bittorrent community is all about .
by the way, not all new trackers begging for users in another forums and play the propaganda game here in fst.
some of them really looking for quality members that's why they don't give invites to every one knocks on their doors.
and yes, there is no need to collect trackers.. i used to think the more trackers i have the more content i can get
but i found out that most trackers has the same content and sometimes i go and download stuff from public trackers such as pirate bay.
really 4 or 5 trackers are enough , you just need to read trackers' reviews and ask ur friends and your fellow members before you try to get invites .
Honestly i think its as simple as this. Most 0day trackers have more or less the same content (in terms of xvid and tv shows), so even tho they can manage on any site, they say why can't i have the best etc.
:o they actually piss me off more than traders. Atleast traders admit to what they are, unlike these collectors who are in self denial.Quote:
but always hated those "fake" goody-goody ppl here who beg for rare sites for their "community" .seriously wtf .
I love this constructive thread! :yup:Quote:
Originally Posted by pro267FST as a forum with a strong BT community can also help in educating new users. For example, a nice PM (translated to multiple languages) explaining basic private tracker rules and code of conduct could be automatically sent to every member gaining entrance to the invites section.Quote:
Originally Posted by DV8type
To sum it up, my point is that people can learn and evolve with proper guidance. :P
My own perspective as a newcomer, upon entering the invites thread, was that I was witnessing some kind of bazaar in which members were haggling with each other about what would or would not constitute an even, fair trade. In some threads, the OP might be accused of cheating or scamming in the past. Others might say the tracker being sought is much too precious to even consider trading for such a common and worthless invite. Then there were those offering high level accounts with large buffers and seeking equivalent "possessions." I thought that's how it was supposed to be done! :O
Thankfully, I tend to read threads a lot (lurk) and I read enough of them with free giveaways and invite requests--the minority, I think--to notice anti-trading signatures and several comments about how trading violates most tracker rules. If English hadn't been my native language, I could well have missed some of those subtle nuances and jumped on that trading Merry-Go-Round, and ended up cheated, disillusioned, banned, and branded a trader.
I know this has been discussed and rejected by the FST staff before, but I feel if we could sequester the "wheeler-dealers" from the "learn who's interested and worthy of certain trackers" group, we'd not only make it easier for tracker staffs to spot and rid themselves of rule-breakers, but also for invite seekers to spot their desired giveaways without having to sift through an endless parade of "merchants" peddling their "treasures". I heartily endorse pro267's ideas for the indoctrination of newcomers, so that they can make an early, educated choice whether to become a valued member of the community or a rule-breaker.
I agree with pro's post, it more succinctly put what I was trying to say :huh: but I don't think new users should be 'indoctrinated' or assimilated for that matter, it is still a choice to trade or not, if not I try to help if they do I try to persist and explain that trading has a glass ceiling, but it is still a choice!
People are different that is what makes this a dynamic and vibrant place to be, even when the spam is flying or the latest drama is unfolding, it is still a strong community in itself the traders and non-traders both, there are traders and ex-traders who do genuinely try and help and be a part of the community, and then there are the grab it & run artists, but they aren't hard to spot.
The focus of this forum has changed & evolved since I have become a member and there are more members here who are trying to help and show new users the choice they have and help them if they can so there definitely is a positive side.
I think staff at some trackers recognise this because there have been more comm reps posting and commenting in the forums as well. I do hope this continues and that there are more members who do take the time to talk to new users and hopeful foster friendships and a sense of community.
Giveaways on public torrents violate just as many rules, but no one puts that in their signature.Quote:
Originally Posted by whitmar
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5821/invitexv6.jpg
I think it's been like this for some time...certainly longer than four months.Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM
I think one of the major problems is that the median age of BT users and FST members in particular is getting younger and younger. I'm not trying to say that people in their early teens can't be good members, however people in that age bracket tend to act like kids. Generally speaking they're just not mature enough to give a shit. So to them hit and running or keeping a good ratio is like your parents telling you to eat your veggies it just goes in one ear and out the other.
Another issue (and this holds true for any age) is that human nature dictates we want what the other guy likes. People come here and hear how cool F**whatever is and think hmmm, I'd like to be there I should try and get an invite. I was lucky enough to cotton on to this pretty quickly and came to the realization that whatever happens happens and if a mate wants to invite me they will...or I'll do something else. Though i have asked for a couple of invites I would prefer to get them from people I know, because lets face it they all have the same content give or take a few torrents so if you don't have mates there what's the point.
As for FST having a responsibility to educate new members well that's a different can of worms entirely. As Artemis likes to point out it's kind of like the wild west here. You get all sorts the good, the bad and the ugly. But that's what makes this place special and interesting and keeps me coming back. I think it's more up to the members to influence others. So it's best to lead by example and give a nudge here and there than to expect FST staff to do it
Just like you can't expect cops to give seminars on morality and be your life coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by sear
DV8type Is correct. When the new anti trading wave hit FST people are just requesting their asses off.
People how i not read one post of are in asking for the rarest trackers.
If you dont know anyone in the trackers you want into and decide to request it here atleast try to make some posts here and get to know some people.
Its not like a request = sudden invite.
Of all the requests made i guess only a few % of them actually got the invite. And those that go them were active users here that actually made some friends.
As for requesting other high level trackers, i guess people dont actually care about the communety nor what the tracker has to offer. Its mostly race to get all the trackers.
The grass will always be greener on the other side of the fence.
If you expect a member to act a certain way then I think it's the trackers job to educate the member so they can act accordingly. FST isn't going to do it for you.
I appreciate the experienced FST members sharing their broad views here, based on the observation of evolving trends over a prolonged period of time. There is obviously no easy answer to these problems. Pandabear, thanks for showing me those rules from FTN. They are much more explicit than those shown in the WTAW thread. In fact, I see so much of that prohibited behavior in the invites section, I'm surprised there haven't been massive bans of FTN members. (Maybe there have been--I'm not in a position to know.) So I'm still a little confused. I know most tracker staffs have a presence here, and can see their own rules being frequently broken. What is their overall attitude toward this behavior?
I completely agree with everything that has been said here and elsewhere against indiscriminate free giveaways of invites. The consequences of inviting someone with a bad agenda is the same as trading an account to that same person. However, after about a month in a certain level 2 music tracker, I received 27 invites. I don't know anyone in real life who does bit torrent file sharing, and I don't know 27 people here who don't already belong to that tracker or a different one they prefer. So there is a temptation to start a mass indiscriminate giveaway thread, especially when such a value is placed on high rep point counts when judging a persons fitness as a prospect for membership in higher level trackers. I have given away only 2 of these invites after checking the recipients' profiles. I have not publicly offered any higher level invites I have available.
I also agree that it should not be left to the FST staff to lecture and educate newcomers. They are overworked as it is now. I also think my use of the word "indoctrination" was too strong and should have been substituted with "orientation". The consequences of trading and irresponsible inviting should be discussed early on, however. What would be wrong with a sticky closed thread containing recommended guidelines of behavior that would be conducive to the best overall experience at FST and at trackers in general? This could help well-meaning n00bs avoid behavior they may later regret.