So lets be COMMUNITY!

Hi so here on fst we always talk about community right? RIGHT!. So fst being the largest torrent oriented forum around i think we should have some pull in the torrent community.
What i would like talk about is region banning, there are alot of top torrent sites (bitme,bitmetv,sct....) that are banning whole regions from like israel romania and otheres from there sites because of a small number of users who cheat,hit and run and so forth. I think this is unfair to allot of users and should be stopped once and for all!
so lets try and get together and sign a petition and make these sites friendly to users of all nationality's

Try to take the issue up with the site owners.

If they don't want people from certain countrys then that's just how it is they can do as they please so just accept it and get on with your day otherwise you're just starting trouble for everybody.

Once the countrys that are banned start to prove they are not just problems then they will consider leting them in so just wait and see what happens.

I don't think sites ban whole country region just because of few ungrateful members, it is most likely its repeated offenses by a large amount of users or something really serious that lead to that decision.

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Originally Posted by Totti

Hi so here on fst we always talk about community right? RIGHT!. So fst being the largest torrent oriented forum around i think we should have some pull in the torrent community.
What i would like talk about is region banning, there are alot of top torrent sites (bitme,bitmetv,sct....) that are banning whole regions from like israel romania and otheres from there sites because of a small number of users who cheat,hit and run and so forth. I think this is unfair to allot of users and should be stopped once and for all!
so lets try and get together and sign a petition and make these sites friendly to users of all nationality's

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Small number of users from those countries lol

when we open the doors we get about 5000 new users, 4000 are from brazil (for some reason we are huge in brazil) and out of those i would say 3700 are cheats, or make multiple accounts, or any number of bad users.

tbh the ony reason we "havnt" banned the whole country is because there are "some" good users (i think there are 8000+ brazilians on blackcats) and one of our staff members is from there.

But i can understand why trackers ban entire IP ranges or Countries as its a pain the the ass to go through and ban them all.

another point as well. its one of the reasons we are staying closed, for the amount of cheaters we do get in when we open.

so that means everyone else that wants to get in from other countries cant because we do not ban a country, we are just banning anyone else from signing up (so whats better?)

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Originally Posted by Totti

there are alot of top torrent sites (bitme,bitmetv,sct....) that are banning whole regions from like israel romania and otheres from there sites because of a small number of users who cheat,hit and run and so forth. I think this is unfair to allot of users and should be stopped once and for all!
so lets try and get together and sign a petition and make these sites friendly to users of all nationality's

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well i agree that is unfair to ban hole region,but surely u will not do much abouth the rest of if...

also these 3 u mention are not the only one who have banned countrys..there are few more so this is much bigger problem and probably the have very good reasone for that..

As stoi pointed out in his own eloquent way it is not a small number of cheaters. On some sites it got to the point where there were more cheats than good users from certain countries. The staff can't spend all their time concentrating their efforts on constantly finding these cheaters so the only option is to mass ban users from that country.

If the good users from those countries want to do something productive then try educating your fellow countrymen. That's what community is about!

It´s their trackers. They do whatever they want.

it's not only in bittorrent, in dc, for example, the italians, hungarians and romanians clearly do cheat a lot (fake share, fake client, etc.)
whereas, cheater are MUCH rarer in countries like sweden, netherlands, etc.

As stated several times before.
It might not be fair, to the amount of users that follow the rules. But in the countries that are banned. The trend seems to go to, more users cheating than the users that follow the rules. On some sites, the users even looked up other users from the same country sending them PMs and posting on forums in their native languish explaining to them how they could cheat to maintain ratio.
So ofc mods gets pissed and then finally when they have had it they just decide to ban everyone.

The people from those country needs to change the attitude for filesharing. Why on earth should several users like myslef pay for boxes only so that you guys can bennefit for it without ever giving anything back to the community.

What you guys could do would be to make an tracker only for people form the banned countries, and see how well it works.
I am guessing the stats would show something like:
1 seeder 400 leechers 0 snatches and 400Tb seeded on the latest episode of PB.

For this trend to change, you need to change the mind for the majority of your fellow country men. And that simply not going to happen before your country gets better upload capacity. The cheaters wants all the benefits from the private trackers and dont want to take part in actual sharing.

For those few soles that actually follow the rules, well it have to suck. But dont blame mods that are only trying to make their sites better for all the users. Just blame the living next door to you instead. Or try to get the isp's to follow the standards the rest of the world provide.

Is there a possiblity that the numbers of cheaters from a particular country is inflated? My theory is that a person who cheat will have multiple accounts. If one account is banned he will try to get another. So in the end one cheater is seen as; say 10 cheaters. On the other hand a good user will be seen as one account holder.

The result: Let say we have 1000 account from the same country. And lets' say 90% are cheaters. That is 900 accounts but those account come 900/10
=90 users. and not from 900 users.

Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Cheffy

And that simply not going to happen before your country gets better upload capacity.

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actually the upload speed is not the reason. there are a lot of countries with low upload capacity that do not have a high percentage of cheater.

the reason is a different mentality/attitude towards the internet and online services.

"my country has slow upload speeds" is often used as an excuse for cheating.

statistics show, that from a global point of view there's no correlation between upload speeds and cheating behaviour.

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Originally Posted by TP635

Is there a possiblity that the numbers of cheaters from a particular country is inflated? My theory is that a person who cheat will have multiple accounts. If one account is banned he will try to get another. So in the end one cheater is seen as; say 10 cheaters. On the other hand a good user will be seen as one account holder.

The result: Let say we have 1000 account from the same country. And lets' say 90% are cheaters. That is 900 accounts but those account come 900/10
=90 users. and not from 900 users.

Just a thought.

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ip addresses

It is a simple fact from the staff's point of view on these PRIVATE trackers - note this, it is a privilege to belong to them , not a right - that when most of their effort is expended on tracing cheaters from certain countries then it is far simpler to simply ban the offending IP ranges. Why should they have to spend the time sorting the good from the bad when a large proportion of users in certain countries are known to cheat trade sell invites etc.
I also believe this is a social problem in these countries, the attitude of users being to take what they can in any way they can. It is unfortunate for the genuine users but it comes back to the simple fact that these are private trackers created by people who want a certain type of user and have rules for users to abide by. From the point of view of the tracker staff, banning an entire offending country is the simplest and by far the most effective way to remove alot of irritation and wasted time spent checking and tracing cheats/scammers and all the rest.
It is a very simple fact, if you wish to be a member of the private communities that you have been invited to , then you need to follow the rules that were put in place for members of that community. The one thing that various staff members I talk to have to say is how frustrating and time consuming it is tracking down the cheaters, the scammers and the account hackers.

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Originally Posted by Totti

Hi so here on fst we always talk about community right? RIGHT!. So fst being the largest torrent oriented forum around i think we should have some pull in the torrent community.
What i would like talk about is region banning, there are alot of top torrent sites (bitme,bitmetv,sct....) that are banning whole regions from like israel romania and otheres from there sites because of a small number of users who cheat,hit and run and so forth. I think this is unfair to allot of users and should be stopped once and for all!
so lets try and get together and sign a petition and make these sites friendly to users of all nationality's

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Petition? Private trackers are not democracies as you can well see...

LOL, FST has little to no sway on any torrent site.

it's not fair to ban a whole country cause there are some cheaters
every country has bad and good users :(

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Originally Posted by SAM

it's not fair to ban a whole country cause there are some cheaters
every country has bad and good users :(

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well they havent banned whole country just becuase of some cheaters there are many more than some:),but as i said its not fair anyway there are also good users who can contributing to sites like donation,uploading,helping to others...:)

well true every country have bad users,but it seems not many as country that are banned from couple of sites

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Originally Posted by BamZow

It´s their trackers. They do whatever they want.

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exactly :)

I have never been one to punish the few for the crimes of many; I don't think it's right neither do I think it's fair.

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Originally Posted by krunktastic

I have never been one to punish the few for the crimes of many; I don't think it's right neither do I think it's fair.

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I agree

they wouldnt do it if the huge majority of people from those regions were bad users. tough luck, nothing any of us could do about it and if i was in their position i would do the same thing.

I would vote against any said petition...

The reason? Well, I trust the admins of the sites I use to implement their judgment to do what is best for the tracker.

If they decide it is best for the health of the tracker to ban entire countries?

Ok by me..

Yes, I know it sucks for those of you who don't cheat and live in a banned region. Life isn't fair, oh well.

slim-

Or you could find a few users from your country who don't cheat and get a box located in another country and sign up, seed, and surf threw there.

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Originally Posted by krunktastic

I have never been one to punish the few for the crimes of many; I don't think it's right neither do I think it's fair.

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I would agree to that if they got paid to do their staffing at sites, but they don't and they give their free time to help resolve user (our) issues.

When most of them issues are based around certain regions giving them over 90% of the site problems, then their only recourse is to place blanket bans on them regions which then frees up lots of time to help resolve the rest of the sites user problems.

Maybe if they had more staff/time, then more 1-2-1 user problems could be resolved satisfactory, but not many want to give up their free time to do unpaid staffing work at torrent sites.

It's a tough world, and maybe if those regions users educated the rest of their fellow countrymen to be better users at sites, instead of constantly bitching, then maybe we could all torrent in peace and all get along better.

The answer would to find a fool proof way to detect cheating but from what I've read it's just not possible at the moment. Until someone finds a way to 'cheat proof' a tracker this problem will never go away. Blame also has to be shared with the cheats themselves of course. Their mentality just escapes me. I value my accounts WAAAY to much to risk losing them. I've been a member of several sites for 2 or more years..no seed box, and no uber elite uploader status, just a reasonable ratios and lots of gbs u/led over the years..and that suits me just fine, altho I do pick one tracker a month to donate to (usually less than $20). Just my 2 cents...;)

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Originally Posted by Artemis

It is a simple fact from the staff's point of view on these PRIVATE trackers - note this, it is a privilege to belong to them , not a right - that when most of their effort is expended on tracing cheaters from certain countries then it is far simpler to simply ban the offending IP ranges. Why should they have to spend the time sorting the good from the bad when a large proportion of users in certain countries are known to cheat trade sell invites etc.
I also believe this is a social problem in these countries, the attitude of users being to take what they can in any way they can. It is unfortunate for the genuine users but it comes back to the simple fact that these are private trackers created by people who want a certain type of user and have rules for users to abide by. From the point of view of the tracker staff, banning an entire offending country is the simplest and by far the most effective way to remove alot of irritation and wasted time spent checking and tracing cheats/scammers and all the rest.
It is a very simple fact, if you wish to be a member of the private communities that you have been invited to , then you need to follow the rules that were put in place for members of that community. The one thing that various staff members I talk to have to say is how frustrating and time consuming it is tracking down the cheaters, the scammers and the account hackers.

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The only thing that I would add to what Artemis is saying is....well its just like those precious ipods that everyone has....its a prive!

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1...ilarious-4.jpg