Here's a thought.

Why is it that people are hellbent on getting into trackers that don't want or require new members, yet when some budding sysop comes along, announces a new site and invites everyone to join in, they tend to be shot down with "what makes your site so special", "what's different", "why should i join", etc.

If I was looking to get into new sites, I'd be jumping at the opportunity to take part in new communities and see where they lead.

At least I'd have a better chance of contributing something useful and have my foot in the door from the start.

So, if you're looking to join communitiues, next time a friendly face comes along and announces the launch of a new site, why not jump right in?

You've said it yourselves, you get the same files at the end of the day anyway :)

Or am I wrong?

Its probably just the collectors that say that, they have everything they want anyway, (if you are not a collector and say that then i appologize)

other aspect is security, to many sites have come and gone, some with users passwords not encrypted and got hacked, so its just the ones in the know, being ultra careful.

what gets me is, those that say that, or most anyway, if that very same site, closed after a month and 1000 members, went on the WTAW thread, 1 year later was a lvl 4 they would all be clamouring to get into the thing.

Many of the new trackers try to compete against giants like ScT and TL but without the users to actually get those fast pre times or handle server cost. If you look at btracs it shows sites have been alive for more than 2-3 years that have open signups and offer the same thing as ScT and TL. As for people getting pissed at new trackers they're just mad cuz they wasted their seedbox bandwidth buffering a tracker that closed down in a month.

It's even funnier when those hellbent people have these "dreams" of sticking their e-dick in certain trackers, and then bash websites like ScL because they don't have hundreds of torrents uploaded everyday and don't have tons of users. :whistling

Because a lot of people here are tarders and collectors and don't care about some new tracker taht is not worth anything according to the WTAW thread. If you haven't noticed yet. There are a lot of people that are here for the trading and to collect trackers.

I do also think that there is no need for new trackers unless they do offer something especial and unless they have what it takes to get a good site running. Seriously why start another 0-day tracker and try to compete with so many good trackers that already exist? Make it especial and then you'll have a chance.

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Originally Posted by Squizzle

Why is it that people are hellbent on getting into trackers that don't want or require new members

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if we made torrentbytes level 8 people would trade their aunties for it.

the thing is i dont think there has been many general trackers made recently that can rival the established good ones like torrentleech, so why would they want to join those?

if i was going to make a new tracker i would make it something with original theme and content along the lines of vintage cartoons, elearning, music videos they've all been done i know but theres room for improvement with some. theres way too many good 0day trackers available for a newcomer to break through that and get active members.

What i do not understand is this.

When someone makes a new tracker, and it has everything, its automatically a 0 day tracker, and members here tell them to get fast pre-times and everything else that goes with a 0 day tracker.

Then they get told in the post below that there is no room for a another 0 day tracker.

can a tracker not have everything, and be more like KG/BCG/What/waffles etc where its all on content for everything, and not just 0 day crap all the time.

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Originally Posted by saulin

Seriously why start another 0-day tracker and try to compete with so many good trackers that already exist? Make it especial and then you'll have a chance.

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There's always room for another tracker, if the staff is dedicated to providing a quality server (low downtime, decent amount of torrents uploaded). Not everyone can get into those good trackers that already exist. Shit like the WTAW thread makes those decent trackers seem worthless, and makes trackers seem so great but so hard to get into, making people resort to trading or scamming to attempt to get into them.

The more decent options there are for getting your files, the less trading/scamming/dreaming for other trackers there will be. I'll concede to the point that a lot of these new comeup trackers are poorly planned, and not very secure, but the attitude of a lot of users here are "TL4lyfe ScT4lyfe dreaming of FtN fuck your tracker and your efforts."

As rvt said in another post, bad things happen when it's just a few popular sites that have the majority of the private torrent tracker users. Not everyone has to be on one tracker, if the users are distributed amongst 20-30 decent 0-day trackers then it's a good thing.

It also makes me irritated when people complain about newer sites not comparing to sites like TL. I hear things like, TL has better speeds, more torrents, I can seed back great, etc. Well obviously, it's been alive for years and has _tons_ of users on it. What's the most irritating is when users brag about their 100:1 ratio on their torrents; think of all the people who can't get anything uploaded on a torrent at all, just because you think you're the shit with your seedbox and 1TB upload a day. And TL staff loves that I'm sure, more users who will have to resort to pay2leech in their eyes.

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Originally Posted by Squizzle

If I was looking to get into new sites, I'd be jumping at the opportunity to take part in new communities and see where they lead.

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Ill translate that quote.... "I'd join all the new trackers so if they become so 1337 then ill already be there! Therefore making my e-penis bigger than the next guy" :rolleyes:

My opinion is kind of in line with other comments..some (not all) of these new 0day trackers are maybe ppl trying to get into higher leveld ones on the WTAW list... some ppl are lazy and making a specialised tracker of any sort requires a lot of work and dedication, as usually such sites have few torrents (rather than users)... ppl seem to flock to 0day ones as 50% of torrenters just want the latest movie/album arther than are looking for quality or vintage stuff --> hence a whole heap of new 0day rather than say a magazine, comic book or comedy tracker....

Ok look at torrentbits.ro

It started from scratch and what did they do. They let people in and always had free leech. What did SCC do, they let a lot of people in a always had free leech, plus they ahve some of the best uplaoders that can get stuff very quick.

You gotta do something especial to get people to join. Not only that but you have to have your own uplaod crew. You can't just rely on users to upload everything although it's a good idea to have users upload stuff as well. Look at Oink when it was alive. It was huge and everythign was so well seeded. People would always find stuff to upload.

Now Torrentbits and SCC and very descent trackers. However what you get soemtimes are trackers like SCN, RTS, or SCL. They want to keep a very low user database, they don't have what it takes to keep the torrents comming and end up dead with no leechers or seeders and they won't do anything to let more people in and to provide better quality.

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Originally Posted by Squizzle

Why is it that people are hellbent on getting into trackers that don't want or require new members, yet when some budding sysop comes along, announces a new site and invites everyone to join in, they tend to be shot down with "what makes your site so special", "what's different", "why should i join", etc.

If I was looking to get into new sites, I'd be jumping at the opportunity to take part in new communities and see where they lead.

At least I'd have a better chance of contributing something useful and have my foot in the door from the start.

So, if you're looking to join communities, next time a friendly face comes along and announces the launch of a new site, why not jump right in?

You've said it yourselves, you get the same files at the end of the day anyway :)

Or am I wrong?

---

most of those "trackers that don't want or require new members" are rare hence the demand (blame the WTAW thread lolz). Additionally, all of those sites have excellent security and have been around for ages hence have the trust of entire BT community.

Newbie trackers on the other hand are different. First, Most newbie trackers are run by new guys whom nobody has ever heard of. Before anyone can put "trust" on them they already seem to blew it up. Staffers in those trackers have no idea whatsoever they are doing, the owner of those sites seem to be more active in other-newly-found-tracker-that-they-got-by-promoting-someone-to-vip-or-staff- and have bunch other issues like regular downtime. Secondly, security is a major issue with new trackers. Bunch of them have or can easily get hacked :mellow: Additionally, the for almost all new tracker content is 0-day again. Nothing wrong with having another 0-day tracker but the problem is that major userbase of those newbie tracker share member with another established 0-day tracker already. More that 80% of the userbase in a new 0-day tracker just waits there for the tracker to get established...they barely even leech from there. Why should they? After all they already have TL, ScT, RevTT, FTN or other good 0-day source is the type of mentality in almost all users. Imo, staffers of new 0-day tracker should try getting new peeps rather than recruiting those who are in 100s 0-day tracker already!

P.S. When i think of a "successful" newbie tracker, less that 5 trackers come to my head :-\ Cinemageddon was prolly one of the best newbie tracker (apart from hydras like what, waffles) for last year. This year, the CG team came up with tv-vault. Amazing run so far...and will surely be one of the best newbie tracker for this year.

As squirr3l said, I think one of the main reasons people seek trackers that have their doors closed are because those trackers have already been around the block a few times, and know exactly what they're doing. They figure the harder it is to get in, the more secure and well-run the tracker will be.

They've been established, so people know they're good. Who wants to go putting time and effort into a new tracker that has a great possibility of just fading away, through lack of SysOp interest, lack of participation, everything.

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Originally Posted by respawn40

As squirr3l said, I think one of the main reasons people seek trackers that have their doors closed are because those trackers have already been around the block a few times, and know exactly what they're doing. They figure the harder it is to get in, the more secure and well-run the tracker will be.

They've been established, so people know they're good. Who wants to go putting time and effort into a new tracker that has a great possibility of just fading away, through lack of SysOp interest, lack of participation, everything.

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and people ask why I love this man...:whistling

It sucks when people dis new trackers even though I can see where they are coming from.

I think the issue people perceive is that new 0-day trackers appear pretty much everyday when there are already 100's out there that are "short" on members and are open registration. Therefor, you've got a bunch of lackluster sites instead of "focusing" on the ones that are already out there. From my perspective, it's not so bad as it seems - The more heads on this hydra the better.

The other issues I have, personally, with the majority of new trackers:

• I, like most people here, don't need them. I'm already a member of a couple 0-day sites and I'm pretty happy with them.
• New sites are often lax on security and get hacked frequently. This is a very real possibility for any site; yet, the chances decrease over time.
• The other dimension of security is the question of what are the founder's intentions with the site. If they are new then they will have to be around a while before anyone trusts them to be anything other than user/pass/email info collector site.
• You never know how long a new tracker will be around. Is this someone's pipe dream? How many trackers started up and within a month the bowl was cashed for good, and without anyone really noticing.
• A lot of people will say that people want into high lvl trackers because of e-penis. It's not always the case. If you take a good look at these sites they often have significant design, code, and other infrastructure improvements. They have community (yes some people care about community). They have built up their libraries and many users have invested a lot of time and love into them. These are things you don't usually get in most trackers.

Now that I've said that. People still join new trackers. However, it's usually because of who is behind it and/or because it's covers a desired niche. See my sig for example - TVV - new site. I'm already a die hard fan but then again I'm a die hard fan of it's sister site. Plus tracker developments (they are building upon gazelle) are very interesting to me.

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Originally Posted by Squizzle

Why is it that people are hellbent on getting into trackers that don't want or require new members, yet when some budding sysop comes along, announces a new site and invites everyone to join in, they tend to be shot down with "what makes your site so special", "what's different", "why should i join", etc.

If I was looking to get into new sites, I'd be jumping at the opportunity to take part in new communities and see where they lead.

At least I'd have a better chance of contributing something useful and have my foot in the door from the start.

So, if you're looking to join communitiues, next time a friendly face comes along and announces the launch of a new site, why not jump right in?

You've said it yourselves, you get the same files at the end of the day anyway :)

Or am I wrong?

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whats the point to be a member at 1000 trackers that they are all the same??
mostly its obay trackers with same releases, so I don't see any point to be in another one.
lets just say that if its new and unique tracker I will be happy to be a part of it.
just before 2-3 month ago someone in here talk about openning latin music tracker and thats something new and unique and me personly going to like it and I'm still waiting for it (maybe its running already and I didn't know).

its all about power and control like in the real life
ppl want to belong to trademark

no matter if it inferior

and they have short memory

how can you compare scn rts and scl saulin? scl had open signups for a very long time.. and they opened them on a couple of occasions.. they even handed out invites to everyone a few times..
in an ideal world nobody would give a shit about the wtaw thread.. i only join trackers myself on a few occasions, bc i am already on quite a few.. the funny thing is the majority of my friends doesnt care about joining new trackers either no matter how rare they are. as a n00b i would gladly take the chance to join new trackers though.. i guess i would go to tpg for information gathering though :P
btw you know Squizzle they just want to join your tracker bc of your avatar right? :D

In an ideal world, the WTAW thread and threads that give trackers an economic worth/value wouldn't exist. Sure, you could put forth the weak argument that everyone deserves to know about the trackers so everyone who is "worthy" can have an opportunity to get in.

But imagine how less trading there would be if the "rare" and "exclusive" trackers weren't openly advertised as they are. There would of course be less trading and less publicity for these trackers; half of the traders who wander onto this site, and others I'm sure, wouldn't even know trackers like FTN or FSC existed, therefore wouldn't attempt to trade for them. I mean come on, I see tons of request threads for trackers that people know literally NOTHING about, and are probably acquaintainces with no one on them.

Now imagine if only the 'What Trackers Offer' thread existed. Trackers like FTN would simply be in a list among a lot of other sites that offer similar things, and that's the way it should be. If trackers don't want to be in that list either, then they wouldn't be there.

This would also allow newer trackers to grow more easily. The WTAW thread poisons the minds of potential traders, scammers, collectors, and just plain superficial people; they see a ton of quality trackers at level 2, and completely ignore them; their lusting eyes drift off to the higher levels right away. And this carries on to new tracker threads. And as I started earlier in this thread, some new trackers really do need more work before they come out to play, but some people don't even give the tracker a chance: "No more new trackers!" "We already have enough!" are common taunts/jabs.

They'll always be traders and sellers, and even though a lot of minds have already been poisoned with the whole levels situation, I think things can be changed for the better. :)

I will agree that there does need to be an element of trust in starting a new tracker. Someone completely unkown to all is less likely to pull in any new users.
That's not to say anyone who is unknown is not trustworthy though.

But say someone known to a few people from other trackers as a member, not existing staff, opens a new site with general content. They've spent some time learning about tbdev and applying patches.
They make a post here, and BAM. Everyone jumps on them about how we don't need more 0-day sites, or how worthless they are compared to whatever the favourite tracker happens to be today. It also gets mentioned how they might just be in it for money.

Those new sites fail to pull in any new members, nobody takes a chance on donating even $10, and the sites go bust.
It becomes a vicious circle of "don't trust new sites, they fold in a month" and new sites folding in a month because nobody takes any chances.

So we're now left with the situation where you must either be pretty well known as tracker staff, or have plenty of money to open a new tracker that stands a good chance of success.
Those who have been tracker staff for a while are generally not interested in opening more trackers, and those who are rich to begin with tend to have made money by being sensible with money. They're the ones more likely to want a return on investment.

The situation could be combated by new trackers starting slow, small and cheap, on shared or underpowered hosting. The problem here however is that everyone complains if there's not enough users or torrents.
There's also complaints if the site manages to grow, as the old server slows down or there is downtime while moving to a new server. Moving to a new server quite often requires a setup fee and a months payment up front though, so it takes a few months to get the donations needed, leading to more complaints about how slow the site is.

For those reasons and others, I think it's almost impossible for new sites to succeed these days. The only chance we have of improving the situation is if people are willing to take a chance.

If the sysop seems knowledgeable enough about security and code, don't instantly assume the worst.
If they are humble enough to admit that they need help, and seek that help, then it's possible some of their code is being done by one (or even many) of the well known coders without you knowing it.
If a sysop has given you no reason to suspect they are only in it for the money, why not take a chance with $5 or $10? Sure they may end up doing a runner, but you may also end up helping the site to survive and grow stronger.

The hundreds of people supposedly looking for "community" should have no problem with the above. Communities are built by everyone pulling their weight. If you can offer time, money or skills, that's how you become part of a community.
Simply finding an established community and spamming up 6 month dead threads will not get you accepted by anyone.

@integral: With 20-30 sites, I'd still consider the whole torrent community underserved. 2000-3000 would be better.
If there were that many sites all with say 2-5000 users, they may not be as fast at getting the goods as established trackers, but they are hardly worth the effort of shutting down.
Does it really matter if you get your TV show or movie 30 minutes later than everyone else? Everyone claiming pretime is a massive factor should actually get off torrents and buy some ftp axx.

2000 trackers with 2000 users is only 4 million users. That's assuming each user is only on one site. If every user is on 2 sites, that's 2 million.
Given figures such as 1 million having downloaded the olympics opening ceremony, 4 million torrenters worldwide shouldn't be hard to find.

Simple answer: Most people are looking for more than just files. The ones that only want files go to TPB. The rest look for:

-Security
-Speed
-Content
-Good staff
-Community
-Ego
-Many other things

...and the new sites don't offer that, in most cases (regardless of whether or not they have the potential to) and the well known sites do.

Simple as that. ;)

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Originally Posted by Squizzle

Why is it that people are hellbent on getting into trackers that don't want or require new members, yet when some budding sysop comes along, announces a new site and invites everyone to join in, they tend to be shot down with "what makes your site so special", "what's different", "why should i join", etc.

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Because they're douche bags(I mean collectors), and those new sites just aren't 1337 enough for them to want to join yet. Fact.

K.

How do you think all the long established sites got their content and community in the first place?

Because people signed up and made an effort to support them.

I can see where you're all coming from, it's just a catch 22 that's all.

Some of these new sites could grow and be really great if people just stopped wanking over the already leet sites and made an effort to help the new sites grow. That's all i'm getting at here.

It's just ironic that everyone wants to be in the trackers where they're pretty much not wanted or needed, yet as soon as a tracker needs members and activity, no-one bothers.

Spoilt brats ;)

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Originally Posted by Squizzle

It's just ironic that everyone wants to be in the trackers where they're pretty much not wanted or needed, yet as soon as a tracker needs members and activity, no-one bothers.

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I don't think there is a link between people wanting FTN and not wanting SceneGateway.
People who want rarity always will want FTN, people who want content always will gravitate towards whatever does it for them content-wise....and the new sites have nothing to offer, and nobody to attract :idunno:

It's like saying "I don't get it. Why do people all want a Ferrari when you could get a crappy car for $300?"

Hmmm ... One should seriously ask one self the question why people want to start-up trackers. Nobody can deny lately it's one tracker after another that pops-up here and somebody (mostly staff) come in here making some sort of publicity.

A banned member here (1080p) once wrote a very decent exposé about the fact all these 'new' trackers have crappy security (hell, even some established trackers have crappy community). That is one of the reasons you won't see me joining a lot of these new trackers. About PW's I'm not afraid since i use another PW on each tracker.

Ain't it normal when you are into torrenting for over 3 years that you are not very keen on jumping into every 'new' story. Some people have joined certain 'new' trackers in the past and have learned some harsh lessons. Can you blame them for being sarcastic, doubtfull, ironic when yet another new 'promising' tracker shows up. i don't think you can.

Off course the flaming ain't necessairy at all and a lot of these flamers are still newbies or indeed people that just come to brag the're a part of a lot of rare trackers. I tend not to reply to threads about 'new' starting trackers, since I am not interestd to join.

The question why people want to join the l33t trackers where they are not wanted and not the 'new' trackers where everybody gets in, has been answered before. It's just a reflection of real life ... what people cannot get or are hard to get, they will persue, what is easy to get they will ignore.

Maybe that's a sad thing, but it is reality nowadays. I just wonder how it comes people still wanna start threads about it. The OP must have been around long enough by now to have some insight in this 'problem' and nothing anybody writes will change the position of people.

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Originally Posted by Squizzle

Some of these new sites could grow and be really great if people just stopped wanking over the already leet sites and made an effort to help the new sites grow. That's all i'm getting at here.

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Agreed. But eventhough I agree with that, I'm also not looking to become a member at any 0day/general trackers. Whether it be a brand new one, or an older, established, "1337", "high level" one, only because I'm already at a pretty good 0day/general tracker. And I'm not looking to collect.

And since the majority of the new trackers that have been popping up around have been general trackers(with the same content I can already get, I presume), I just haven't been interested. But that's just me. I never think that new 0day site can't be a success.

But...when a tracker pops up specializing in a content that is interesting to me, then I'm all over it. Regardless of it being brand new, or if the staff and uploaders are "unknown"(these things are meaningless to me). Two that quickly come to mind that I have joined recently are a certain tracker that specializes in cartoons, and a certain tracker that specializes in older tv shows. And I'm desperately hoping a tracker will get started that specialize in comics. One with fantastic speeds.

So, I think this is a huge reason that most around here picks on all the new general trackers springing up. Simply because most around here already belong to five or more 0day/general trackers(why be a member at that many that all give the same content? I have no idea), and aren't looking to become a member of anymore. But again, that doesn't mean those trackers can't be great. I'm just hoping any people that are thinking of stsrting a new 0day/general tracker will take note of this, and instead begin thinking of creating a specialty tracker. I think that's what the majority of torrenters are wanting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Squizzle

Why is it that people are hellbent on getting into trackers that don't want or require new members, yet when some budding sysop comes along, announces a new site and invites everyone to join in, they tend to be shot down with "what makes your site so special", "what's different", "why should i join", etc.

If I was looking to get into new sites, I'd be jumping at the opportunity to take part in new communities and see where they lead.

At least I'd have a better chance of contributing something useful and have my foot in the door from the start.

So, if you're looking to join communitiues, next time a friendly face comes along and announces the launch of a new site, why not jump right in?

You've said it yourselves, you get the same files at the end of the day anyway :)

Or am I wrong?

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I'd jump on a new niche tracker only.

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Originally Posted by soulreaper

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Originally Posted by Squizzle

Why is it that people are hellbent on getting into trackers that don't want or require new members, yet when some budding sysop comes along, announces a new site and invites everyone to join in, they tend to be shot down with "what makes your site so special", "what's different", "why should i join", etc.

If I was looking to get into new sites, I'd be jumping at the opportunity to take part in new communities and see where they lead.

At least I'd have a better chance of contributing something useful and have my foot in the door from the start.

So, if you're looking to join communitiues, next time a friendly face comes along and announces the launch of a new site, why not jump right in?

You've said it yourselves, you get the same files at the end of the day anyway :)

Or am I wrong?

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I'd jump on a new niche tracker only.

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Yeah, I think if you want to start a successful site, then it needs to fulfill a niche that isn't already fulfilled. StB is looking like a great example of that, as is TV Vault.

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Originally Posted by Funkin'

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Originally Posted by Squizzle

Why is it that people are hellbent on getting into trackers that don't want or require new members, yet when some budding sysop comes along, announces a new site and invites everyone to join in, they tend to be shot down with "what makes your site so special", "what's different", "why should i join", etc.

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Because they're douche bags(I mean collectors), and those new sites just aren't 1337 enough for them to want to join yet. Fact.

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How is that a fact? Seems more like an opinion to me, a baseless one at that.

Which of the following two sites would you like to join?

HDTransmission - new site, already hacked twice and is literally asking to be hacked again.

HDBits - established site with awesome library and seeders.

If you pick HDTransmission then I give you credit for standing by your beliefs, baseless as they are. :rolleyes:

I got a better idea....just stick a couple of trackers and gtfo...ur gonna get the same files and if you contribute more to the forums of a couple of trackers rather than 20 u will have lots more fun...believe me

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Originally Posted by Squizzle

K.

How do you think all the long established sites got their content and community in the first place?

Because people signed up and made an effort to support them.

I can see where you're all coming from, it's just a catch 22 that's all.

Some of these new sites could grow and be really great if people just stopped wanking over the already leet sites and made an effort to help the new sites grow. That's all i'm getting at here.

It's just ironic that everyone wants to be in the trackers where they're pretty much not wanted or needed, yet as soon as a tracker needs members and activity, no-one bothers.

Spoilt brats ;)

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True but when these big tarckers that now exist started, there weren't as many new trackers as there are now. Sure all trackers start small and grow but it's getting ridiculous now. I mean we have way and I mean way too many new trackers that are not getting anywhere because there are already similar trackers that are better. Also why would I want to be a part of 50 0-day trackers and 10 music trackers and 15 movie trackers etc...? There is just no point in doing that. I rather just keep the best ones and use those.

We need more specialized trackers but i think people hold new sites to a double standard alot of the time without realizing that it takes time and a large member base to have fast pre times and things that don't really matter if you have quality content like (Demonoid). Don't get me wrong, I like sites with fast speeds but the content and the seeders are what important and usually the more seeders the faster the speeds anyway (But not always).

Yea most people want the lastest and greatest movie, book, game, or music release which is why we are flooded with 0-day sites.

I don't support bad ideas. There are too many trackers, so I won't use new ones unless someone I respect recommends it.

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Originally Posted by hitman51

I got a better idea....just stick a couple of trackers and gtfo...ur gonna get the same files and if you contribute more to the forums of a couple of trackers rather than 20 u will have lots more fun...believe me

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Yup, this is so true.

There's a lot of pressure on new sites I notice that was not there maybe 2-3 years ago. If it's a scene site, the pressure is on to be the next ScT. Most will be unsuccessful, but at least they tried.