And yet again a reminder PLEASE READ!!!!!

OK guys here it is again another warning about trading. There have been a surge in scam reports lately and most if not all of them are trades done over MSN messenger. If you decide to trade over MSN we cannot help you if you get scammed. We do not police the entire internet and so unless the trade occurs here at FST then there is little or nothing we can do. Guys please use alittle common sense when trading. If someone approaches you on MSN that you have never met before and says they want to trade and they are from FST MAKE THE TRADE HAPPEN HERE. If you think it's too good to be true IT PROBOBLY IS. We have the middleman request here guys please use it, it is there to help protect YOU. If the other person says something like "FST staff tell site staff" or any other lame excuse THEY ARE LIEING TO YOU AND WILL MOST LIKELY SCAM YOU. Again guys you ALL know that trading is dangerous and risk being banned at various trackers for doing it,so why make it even more dangerous that it already is. Any other suggestions for safer trading are ALWAYS welcome

Thank you very much for the reminder.

thanks for the info

thanks for the reminder..

got cheated for my HDBITS accs via MSN :(

common sense and trading shouldn't be in the same fucking sentence

I guess, this all happens to traders who trade accounts/invites that are forbidden in here, not denying the fact that i'm also a victim of the same. There should be more secure ways of trading higher level sites rather than posting in the middleman section which is visible to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Detale

If the other person says something like "FST staff tell site staff" or any other lame excuse THEY ARE LIEING TO YOU AND WILL MOST LIKELY SCAM YOU.

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But i don't know yet how comfortable i will be trading using a middleman. Yes, hopefully we can be sure that the info will remain confidential but still i know some staff here might have some affection to the staff in sites we trade and i have strong reasons to say it. NO offense meant nor i mean particularly someone in here but the fact that the staff knows my ip and account info refrain myself from using a middleman.

Further, when it come to account trading, in some sites, ip change means ban. So when the staff confirms an account using his ip there is little chances that the accounts survive. Correct me if i'm wrong cause i don't know how the middleman system actually works.

I wouldn't even bother warning these people. They want to take their chances with trading, then fuck 'em(no offense to the traders). Let them learn the consequences on their own.

Are you an antitrader? It seems from your voice, you hate traders. Give me a better idea how to get trackers i want. I will quit trading. Or if you are a mod in e**** send me an invite. I will quit trading today. :lol:

sorry, we don't invite traders

catch-22?

:lol: Thats what i meant. Once a trader always a trader. There in no way other than to trade to be a part of your tracker. So leave us on our way. :P

What is catch-22?

There's a member here on FST who wanted to trade highlevel accounts with me, but he said we should meet at MSN. Didn't really give it alot of thought, but now...

Thanks for this thread.

For the "anti" traders please leave the bullshit out of this thread. This was mostly posted because I noticed lots of scams done over MSN not so we could have another debate about trading/not trading. If you have some helpful input ON TOPIC great, if not nothin to see here....move along

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Originally Posted by swedish

What is catch-22?

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As far as I know, catch-22 is a situation in which you're in a dilemma,where you're not able to take a decision.

When did FST become so nazi. With mods telling members to fuck off and mind their own business. Is one only allowed to comment on a subject if one agrees with the mods now.

It certainly didn't start out that way.

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Originally Posted by soulreaper

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Originally Posted by swedish

What is catch-22?

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As far as I know, catch-22 is a situation in which you're in a dilemma,where you're not able to take a decision.

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You're wrong, if anything that's Hobson's Choice. Unless of course you're Joseph Heller and I picked you up wrong.

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Originally Posted by Detale

For the "anti" traders please leave the bullshit out of this thread. This was mostly posted because I noticed lots of scams done over MSN not so we could have another debate about trading/not trading. If you have some helpful input ON TOPIC great, if not nothin to see here....move along

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This thread was going to attract flamebait Detale, such epic words as 'safer trading' were bound to be a red flag to a bull.
A very simple rule that you cannot deny is that without trading there would be no scams ? Also the very fact that so many members here have duplicate memberships or even multiples as in recent cases, makes it less likely that this will be a 'safe' environment. All it means is that you can ban the offending member but then they will merrily carry on their way with the other memberships and/or create new ones.
I fully realise with the huge membership that FST has ( and the fact that membership is never pruned) plus the fact that there are no IP duplicate checking scripts here means tracking duplicate memberships is very hit and miss, but then this also makes the 'safer trading' concept even less viable.
It's a truly lovely sentiment though...........:blink:

There are different sections here for different subjects. I was just wondering if there is a thread for anti-traders. If not, there should be one. Or they will start hijacking every thread in the same way. Why do they read and post in the 'trade section' in the first place if they have no interest in trading. Will these all refrain people from trading? ppl this is not politics.

If a site (FST) allows trading means why can't a mod set some rules or tips for 'safe trading'. I'm going to write a user guide about 'safe trading'. lol

If i talk about trading or not trading, (since someone popped in with an off topic) I stayed low here for around an year with no trading. I'm not addicted to trading or collecting trackers. Now i ran out of my stuff and came back here. Still the trading section is here after lots of arguments and all those debates. I think, it's the tracker staff's duty to find out 'who is against their rules?' Not FST staff. IMO, FST staff is co-operating with most trackers who don't want their invites to be traded and are active here. Afterall, FST is an individual forum which has no obligation to those TRACKERS.

The whole point is this thread is against scammers and cheaters, not against anti-traders.

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FST staff is co-operating with most trackers who don't want their invites to be traded and are active here.

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WRONG!!

Community Rep Trackers, their Accounts cant be traded, Invites are a free for all.

and that is all I am going to say on this subject (I could say a lot more but im refraining this time around)

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Originally Posted by th0r

common sense and trading shouldn't be in the same fucking sentence

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What a stupid statement (I'm not calling you stupid, just that statement). You can say/argue that trading is risky, or is wrong, or shouldn't be allowed, but there are responsible ways to trade that minimize risk and conform with common sense. Trading in itself is not incompatible with common sense.

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Originally Posted by greymatter

There should be more secure ways of trading higher level sites rather than posting in the middleman section which is visible to everyone.

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The middleman request section header says "Only you and Staff can view your thread(s)," so it seems that a middleman request would not be visible to everyone.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Is one only allowed to comment on a subject if one agrees with the mods now.

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No I think the point is, if you don't like trading and don't trade, then what are you doing in the trading section in the first place? FST divided requests/giveaways and trades into two separate sections in part so that so-called anti-traders would stop spamming trade threads and preaching their beliefs on the evils of trading.

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Originally Posted by soulreaper

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Originally Posted by swedish

What is catch-22?

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As far as I know, catch-22 is a situation in which you're in a dilemma,where you're not able to take a decision.

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A catch-22 is self-defeating course of action.

An example wouild be I need an reasonable answer to a question but the only place I have to ask is here.

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Originally Posted by Funkin'

I wouldn't even bother warning these people. They want to take their chances with trading, then fuck 'em(no offense to the traders). Let them learn the consequences on their own.

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go away you fucking troll

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Originally Posted by greymatter

There should be more secure ways of trading higher level sites rather than posting in the middleman section which is visible to everyone.

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wow, youre not too smart

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Is one only allowed to comment on a subject if one agrees with the mods now.

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this guy doesn't even deserve the attention to a response, another jackass who thinks hes better then everyone else


That being said, common sense should be used in all aspects of life... if you're gonna trade use common sense. If its too good to be true, it is. If someone even seems sketchy, he probably is. If you're gonna trade demand a transparent process that makes you and the other person feel comfortable, if you cant achieve a comfortable situation, walk away.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

When did FST become so nazi. With mods telling members to fuck off and mind their own business. Is one only allowed to comment on a subject if one agrees with the mods now.

It certainly didn't start out that way.

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And it isn't that way now JP. Maybe I missed it but where exactly did I tell anyone to fuck off? I was merely trying to shut down the whole trader/anti trader argument that has been done to death already Shirley you see that. Don't get your panties in a bunch (again) this was meant to help some of our newer members from the scammers that come here, not a big deal really. Don't think this warrants a "Nazi" tag either man. A bit beneath you really.

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Originally Posted by Artemis

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Originally Posted by Detale

For the "anti" traders please leave the bullshit out of this thread. This was mostly posted because I noticed lots of scams done over MSN not so we could have another debate about trading/not trading. If you have some helpful input ON TOPIC great, if not nothin to see here....move along

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This thread was going to attract flamebait Detale, such epic words as 'safer trading' were bound to be a red flag to a bull.
A very simple rule that you cannot deny is that without trading there would be no scams ? Also the very fact that so many members here have duplicate memberships or even multiples as in recent cases, makes it less likely that this will be a 'safe' environment. All it means is that you can ban the offending member but then they will merrily carry on their way with the other memberships and/or create new ones.
I fully realise with the huge membership that FST has ( and the fact that membership is never pruned) plus the fact that there are no IP duplicate checking scripts here means tracking duplicate memberships is very hit and miss, but then this also makes the 'safer trading' concept even less viable.
It's a truly lovely sentiment though...........:blink:

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I guess you're right Art but my focus isn't really on safer trading it was more on people using their heads if they do decide to trade. There are lots of reports here from people who traded on MSN and then come a'crying here but as it has been said 1000x we cannot police the internet only our humble site. This also puts me in an awkward position, I want to help our members but at the same time I can't do much when people are scammed this way. Maybe if people get the idea now that will help them in the future not to be scammed and in general use a bit more common sense.

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Originally Posted by puckface

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Is one only allowed to comment on a subject if one agrees with the mods now.

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this guy doesn't even deserve the attention to a response, another jackass who thinks hes better then everyone else

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Wow did YOU hit the nail on the head

Alright...Unusually, I'm going to keep my mouth shut on this one. I have lots to say but will resepect the mods wish. Trader's wishes I will still ignore...

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Originally Posted by puckface

go away you fucking troll

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An expected response from some douchebag trader. You're whole post was nothing but trolling to myself, greymatter, and JPaul.

I was just trying to give you traders a little advice by telling you there is no guaranteed way that you're not going to get ripped off. The only guaranteed way is not to do it.

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Originally Posted by greymatter

There are different sections here for different subjects. I was just wondering if there is a thread for anti-traders. If not, there should be one. Or they will start hijacking every thread in the same way. Why do they read and post in the 'trade section' in the first place if they have no interest in trading. Will these all refrain people from trading? ppl this is not politics.

If a site (FST) allows trading means why can't a mod set some rules or tips for 'safe trading'. I'm going to write a user guide about 'safe trading'. lol

If i talk about trading or not trading, (since someone popped in with an off topic) I stayed low here for around an year with no trading. I'm not addicted to trading or collecting trackers. Now i ran out of my stuff and came back here. Still the trading section is here after lots of arguments and all those debates. I think, it's the tracker staff's duty to find out 'who is against their rules?' Not FST staff. IMO, FST staff is co-operating with most trackers who don't want their invites to be traded and are active here. Afterall, FST is an individual forum which has no obligation to those TRACKERS.

The whole point is this thread is against scammers and cheaters, not against anti-traders.

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Although this is in the trade section it is not a trade thread, therefore it is fair game in terms of whether people should comment or not comment? Just because someone does not trade does not mean that they shouldn't read a section on the forum, for me people's posts (all of them) help me to form an opinion of them, saying that people have a right to view or not view a section of this forum is censorship, is that what you are advocating ?
As for trading itself, it is a slippery slope, because people are willing to offer their memberships to trackers to others like other forms of 'collectables' there are those that wish to take them from the unwary by scamming them out of their memberships. But the simple and basic fact of this is that if people did not offer their tracker memberships or the invites they had gained by being members then the scammers would be out of a hobby.

I love them traded accounts they're the best ... having to fear the fact it can be disabled at anytime when the tracker in question checks the IP-change, lying low in the forums, not being able to post because you don't know jack-shit about the one who owned the account before you and everything you say could be used against you ... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Artemis

As for trading itself, it is a slippery slope, because people are willing to offer their memberships to trackers to others like other forms of 'collectables' there are those that wish to take them from the unwary by scamming them out of their memberships. But the simple and basic fact of this is that if people did not offer their tracker memberships or the invites they had gained by being members then the scammers would be out of a hobby.

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Its a common fact that not everyone can join all sites they want due to their limited user base or site policies over inviting new members.

Its another fact that not everyone trading is simply collecting trackers.

Its another fact that sites have staff and their rules that protect them.

Then why few users in this community are against those members who trade? If you were a site staff somewhere, i could justify you. If you mean to say, i invited someone and he traded, then stop giving away. If you mean, i have invites to deserving people, don't pop into the trade section. You won't find them.

As you said, there is no problem in reading trade offers, read it. BUT I would just say, just read and move away. Why to comment or advise if they don't deserve to keep/protect their accounts?

Finally, its just one thing. Do not defy moderator's expressed wishes. lol
No matter how small the user base/site rating is, the rule is general. :lol:

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Originally Posted by swedish

Are you an antitrader? It seems from your voice, you hate traders. Give me a better idea how to get trackers i want. I will quit trading. Or if you are a mod in e**** send me an invite. I will quit trading today. :lol:

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Do you know what friends are?

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Originally Posted by Funkin'

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Originally Posted by puckface

go away you fucking troll

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An expected response from some douchebag trader. You're whole post was nothing but trolling to myself, greymatter, and JPaul.

I was just trying to give you traders a little advice by telling you there is no guaranteed way that you're not going to get ripped off. The only guaranteed way is not to do it.

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Trolling against trolls , and at least i gave some useful information. I never see that from any of you at any time.

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Originally Posted by greymatter

If you mean to say, i invited someone and he traded, then stop giving away.

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Yes I surely did, or rather I ran into his non trader persona I offered him an invite to bitmetv, he promptly dashed off and fired a ratiocheat program at the tracker getting himself and me disabled in the process. Of course at first he was very effusive in his apologies and his trader persona even emailed me as a 'friend' of the original member. Now the point of this little tale is that he was also previously banned here under other guises, was operating both as a non trader and as a trader (had scammed) and used ratio cheat programs as well. So yes I got rather spectacularly burned there when I was fairly new to this forum.

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Originally Posted by greymatter

Then why few users in this community are against those members who trade?

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In answer to this I have already given one of many examples, but to put it more clearly trading and scamming are two sides of a coin and are inseparable, if there was no trading there would be no a/c's to scam in the first place, and the scammers are not a separate group they are some of the very same traders who at the time want a tracker that is on offer but a. don't have anything to trade so they simply relieve the other person of the membership instead, or b. don't want to give any of their own tracker memberships for various reasons so scam the other person.
It is not like there are 'good' traders and 'bad' traders and they all have a badge to recognise each other , traders do not want to follow the rules of the trackers that they belong to (or only want to follow the rules of those that they choose to), and some of these very same traders also do not want to respect other traders and follow the rules of the trade, or are quite willing to relieve the unwary of their tracker memberships for being n00bs etc.

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Originally Posted by greymatter

As you said, there is no problem in reading trade offers, read it. BUT I would just say, just read and move away. Why to comment or advise if they don't deserve to keep/protect their accounts?

Finally, its just one thing. Do not defy moderator's expressed wishes. lol
No matter how small the user base/site rating is, the rule is general.

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My posts on this subject are on topic, I am offering an alternative to safe trading in saying to others that if you do not trade then you will not be scammed, this is a simple and unalienable fact, and thus is part of the topic of scamming. Some people are told that the only way to get the trackers that they wish is to trade, this is a lie, if you spend the time to make friends then they will want you to become part of trackers and communities. I am trying to show a balanced view of the whole subject, which is scamming, and my original comments were that it is becoming so prevalent here because of the multiple a/c's that many members are starting to build up. There are some people who have a non trader a/c, a trader a/c and some sacrificial a/c's for the odd trade/scam that might go wrong, and I am saying that the only truly effective way to navigate through these waters is to not trade.
As for Detale's expressed wishes, even he replied to my original post, long before you did, agreeing with my points, if they had been off topic he would have said so since we know each other very well.
The choice in the end is yours, to trade or not to trade, I do not personally believe that trading builds good long term members of the community but there are some. I do however believe that the scamming that is becoming so prevalent is because people are willing to pass memberships around like pokemon cards, and that there is something inherently wrong with this very willingness.

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Originally Posted by Artemis

As for Detale's expressed wishes, even he replied to my original post, long before you did, agreeing with my points, if they had been off topic he would have said so since we know each other very well.

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lol, i really didn't mean you. I apologize and it was a mistake that i referred 'YOU' but it was not you but the anti traders, not all, but those ones who appear in every thread hoping to have an invite from the once experienced traders who eventually became anti-traders. I think they are for a good cause because they understand the evils of trading but i guess, being just a user in those sites, one should quit trading as some members here has done. Once you got everything, then discouraging others to trade is not justified either. The best thing one can do is report to the corresponding trackers rather than destroying the friendly atmosphere here. Sometimes, its right, there are people who have every tracker on that level list but still can't satisfy their desire to trade and I don't think they will be discouraged from trading by these comments.

Once again apologies, it was not you. :)

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Originally Posted by greymatter

I guess, this all happens to traders who trade accounts/invites that are forbidden in here, not denying the fact that i'm also a victim of the same. There should be more secure ways of trading higher level sites rather than posting in the middleman section which is visible to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Detale

If the other person says something like "FST staff tell site staff" or any other lame excuse THEY ARE LIEING TO YOU AND WILL MOST LIKELY SCAM YOU.

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But i don't know yet how comfortable i will be trading using a middleman. Yes, hopefully we can be sure that the info will remain confidential but still i know some staff here might have some affection to the staff in sites we trade and i have strong reasons to say it. NO offense meant nor i mean particularly someone in here but the fact that the staff knows my ip and account info refrain myself from using a middleman.

Further, when it come to account trading, in some sites, ip change means ban. So when the staff confirms an account using his ip there is little chances that the accounts survive. Correct me if i'm wrong cause i don't know how the middleman system actually works.

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i agree that's why i don't trust the middleman system we need a better more efficient method.

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Originally Posted by swedish

What is catch-22?

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Catch 22 is a phrase that originated in a book based on WWII if I remember correctly. I think it was a movie as well.

It refers to bomber pilots trying to get out of the war by claiming to be insane. The "catch" was that if you were trying to get out of the war, than you are thinking rationally (no one wants to get killed in a bombing mission). If you are thinking rationally.....then you aren't insane and can continue.


dont have much to say about the topic though. . .

Edit: better explanation here http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...in-of-catch-22

At the end of the day, traders have the odds stacked against them. Most torrent users in the community hate them intensely, all trackers forbid trading, and of course a lot of "traders" are actually scammers.

So naturally, traders, when you try to fight for your right to be the "most efficient" scum of the torrent community, you're going to be met with some heated opinions. As long as it is not heavy trolling, people are allowed to post in trade threads. Unless the mods start cracking down a lot, you're just going to have to deal with it. :)

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Originally Posted by integral

At the end of the day, traders have the odds stacked against them. Most torrent users in the community hate them intensely, all trackers forbid trading, and of course a lot of "traders" are actually scammers.

So naturally, traders, when you try to fight for your right to be the "most efficient" scum of the torrent community, you're going to be met with some heated opinions. As long as it is not heavy trolling, people are allowed to post in trade threads. Unless the mods start cracking down a lot, you're just going to have to deal with it. :)

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I mean, I dont really care, but I love when people use the "trackers forbid trading" or "against trackers rules" arguments, which are both true statements. But, I wonder why I dont see these same people going to the giveaway section and getting all high and mighty there? I mean, giveaways to people you dont know are "forbidden" and "against tracker rules".. I just get the feeling since its popular, people will pick on certain people because they think its cool and they can get away with it, which makes them feel superior, good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by JUSTAGUY

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Originally Posted by greymatter

I guess, this all happens to traders who trade accounts/invites that are forbidden in here, not denying the fact that i'm also a victim of the same. There should be more secure ways of trading higher level sites rather than posting in the middleman section which is visible to everyone.


But i don't know yet how comfortable i will be trading using a middleman. Yes, hopefully we can be sure that the info will remain confidential but still i know some staff here might have some affection to the staff in sites we trade and i have strong reasons to say it. NO offense meant nor i mean particularly someone in here but the fact that the staff knows my ip and account info refrain myself from using a middleman.

Further, when it come to account trading, in some sites, ip change means ban. So when the staff confirms an account using his ip there is little chances that the accounts survive. Correct me if i'm wrong cause i don't know how the middleman system actually works.

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i agree that's why i don't trust the middleman system we need a better more efficient method.

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Well lets see you say you don't know how the MM system actually works yet you have formed an opinion that it is unsafe Both you and GM are wrong. No matter what "affections" we may or may not have for some site staff it has no bearing on the trust that comes with being a MM. For you or anyone to say that is a bit insulting to me and Im sure to the MOD's here. Staff have access to your IP addy now we don't need for you to use a middle man. ANY site you are a member of also has your IP and if there were ever anything to go on between FST and a site using or not using a MM would mean NOTHING.

You say you have good reason to say so? Well what reasons might those be? Don't just spread propaganda without a real point or IMO it seems like bull5hit. AFAIK there has never been a case of someone using a MM here and their info being spread around.

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Originally Posted by integral

At the end of the day, traders have the odds stacked against them. Most torrent users in the community hate them intensely, all trackers forbid trading, and of course a lot of "traders" are actually scammers.

So naturally, traders, when you try to fight for your right to be the "most efficient" scum of the torrent community, you're going to be met with some heated opinions. As long as it is not heavy trolling, people are allowed to post in trade threads. Unless the mods start cracking down a lot, you're just going to have to deal with it. :)

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I agree that traders have the odds against them 100%, it's true there are many risks associated with trading. I mean all could have gone well with the trade and months down the line your acct could be banned because they found out you got the acct by trading. This is something traders must accept ,Shirley. But to say "all" trackers hate traders and trading is a bit much indeed. There are alot of sites out there not just the 20 or so we mostly deal with here and many of those sites couldn't give a crap about trading at all. Trading is not the scummiest part of the torrent community either man. It's all opinion. IMO I feel people who sell invites on Ebay are way worse than traders and I feel that those who scam others are even worse than that. Not saying that I even agree with trading because I feel making some friends is the best way, but to some getting noticed and making friends isn't that easy so I can understand why people do it. But for you to try and speak for the entire "torrent community" is a bit absurd and cocky. Even in the torrent communiyt sites war with each other ALL the time.

trading accounts is a bad idea too.

I've traded invites before, never accounts though because I favor keeping the sites I belong to, to myself.

Anyway, thanks for the reminder, I never thought of the possibilities of getting scammed through MSN/AIM/whatever.

Edit - When I say I've traded invites I mean my own invites on my own accounts, not trading one person's invite for another's.

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Originally Posted by puckface

But, I wonder why I dont see these same people going to the giveaway section and getting all high and mighty there? I mean, giveaways to people you dont know are "forbidden" and "against tracker rules"

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Who said invite GA's to unknown people are supported by everyone ... I don't like trading and I don't like public invite GA's ... they are all about the same to me.

I'm not a fanatic anti-this or anti-that ... but I won't give an invite of mine to people I don't like, that's all.

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Originally Posted by Disme

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Originally Posted by puckface

But, I wonder why I dont see these same people going to the giveaway section and getting all high and mighty there? I mean, giveaways to people you dont know are "forbidden" and "against tracker rules"

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I don't like trading and I don't like public invite GA's ... they are all about the same to me.

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So how did u get into BitHumen then :huh: ...

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Originally Posted by apextwin146

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Originally Posted by Disme

I don't like trading and I don't like public invite GA's ... they are all about the same to me.

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So how did u get into BitHumen then :huh: ...

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I said I don't like the fact people do public GA's and give invites to peeps they don't know at all (except for a lousy ratio-proof and speedtest) ... I didn't say I never applied for a public GA, hell knows I got a fair number of trackers from a public GA.
I just say I would never ever do a public GA ... and trading or public GA's are basically the same in terms of consequences for the inviter/invitee/tracker.

If you saw my BT-rep you'd see I have done 3 in the past ... one for a tracker that was open-signup :frusty: and two for an easily accessible one.
They date from some time now and I saw really fast public GA's weren't my thing.

Basically I think someone doing a lot of public GA's isn't my first choice when I decide to handout an invite.

Hope you understand better what I was trying to explain. :happy: