Whats wrong with being a trader?

Ok seriously, I see more and more emo kids who scream out "burn traders" because they are bad users.

I haven't been around for a while so can someone explain that to me?
I'm a trader. Or rather I used to be in a days when I was more active in the torrenting world.

Well in my entire career on FST I gaveaway moreless 100 invites. Is that bad?
I have never been banned from any tracker other than for inactivity. Is that bad?
I've been to many trackers and always shared my knowledge about them especially during the times when some trackers where really rare. Is that bad?

Just because I can get into some websites faster than a normal person because I'm in possession of many invites (that are desirable by many people, especially noobs) doesn't make me a bad person, well today I've been told so and I notice this trend getting on popularity here.

So can anyone tell me what's the problem? Is it just bunch of jeleous emo kids or there is some deep meaning into that? THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH and if there is please tell me where cuz I'm damn hungry.

I'll keep it simple:

Most trackers want quality members in them. So, the give out invites in order to get more members. The invites are supposed to be for people you know, trust and believe are gonna be a valuable member for the site. That's the whole point of invites.

BUT if you trade them, there is always a risk that the person you are inviting is not a good user, and you are inviting him only to get access to some other site in return.

Now, is trading BAD? No. There are bad traders who don't really care about the person they are inviting as long as they get the invite THEY want. And there are also good traders that make sure that they are inviting good and responsible users.

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Originally Posted by Kyokushin

BUT if you trade them, there is always a risk that the person you are inviting is not a good user, and you are inviting him only to get access to some other site in return.

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The same can be said about giveaways, too. (Unless of course you require profile screens that prove that you actually use the site, maintain a decent ratio, and participate in the community in one way or another.) Nobody ever seems to point this out.

Welcome back. As you probably noticed,the trade and giveaway sections got separated because of the constant e-quarreling and trolling that went on, mods probably just got fed up and decided enough is enough.

I don't think trading is bad as such. Consider a scenario where user A wants a TV site(looking for some rare tv shows) and user B wants a site for cult/rare films. They both understand how to keep a good ratio and decide to exchange their invites and the trade's completed. There's nothing wrong with this imo.

I suspect the problem comes when users trade to get into a site just because the site is hard to gain entrance to.I think the sites would suffer because the users wouldn't appreciate the site's true worth and when they get bored,they'll abandon the site.The WTAW thread is majorly reponsible for this although I understand the reason for its inception. Maybe,FST also majorly benefits from it.

Trading back in 05 and 06(looking at those threads) wasnt considered bad at all,infact it was hailed . Mods did it,reputed members did it,noone was ridiculed.
Before demonoid was taken down ,they had an invites thread where trading was allowed. They didnt think trading was bad did they? Fast forward to today,trading isnt allowed there anymore.

I think that FST sets trends which other popular torrent sites follow, most site admins drop in occasionally to see what's going on. Trading is considered a sin here and so some sites decide to ban trading and other sites follow,like a chain reaction,although this mightnot be true for every site.

At the end of the day,do what you think is right and try being a fruitful member of the site.

A GOOD tracker user does not break trackers' rules; and one of them is, not to trade invites and account.

The problem is that most traders don't give a fuck who they give their invites to. It doesn't matter if the person is a well known cheater/scammer, or could put the tracker in any type of harm. The only thing that matters is if that person has an invite that the trader wants.

Like everyone said, it's all like Giving someone candy in return for some bubble gum, without finding out wether the the other guy is going eat the candy or abuse it...(Wait...WTF?!? that made no sense at all! How do you Abuse candy??)

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Originally Posted by rytheguy

The same can be said about giveaways, too. (Unless of course you require profile screens that prove that you actually use the site, maintain a decent ratio, and participate in the community in one way or another.) Nobody ever seems to point this out.

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Probably because it doesn't need to be pointed out. Every tracker is slightly different on their rules for giveaways in this fashion. I think most would agree that giving away in public places isn't the best way to build a user-base; it's also not in the best interest for the tracker security-wise. Inviting trusted members that you know from other trackers (or other communities) is usually OK.

I've never had to trade to get access any tracker I've ever wanted, with a mixture of friends I know personally, and ones from IRC and forums. Trading invites and accounts is usually greed driven and it's blatant disrespect to the trackers themselves (it's their tracker, their rules). Yet people still have the nerve to say what's the big deal?

It's not hard to see why trackers get upset with traders, it comes down to trust. They're letting you use their service (FOR FREE) as long as you abide by some rules, as soon as you break one (with good intentions or not), there's no reason to believe that user will abide by all the other agreed upon rules.

That being said, are all trades (and traders) evil and bad? No of course not. Are people who habitually trade accounts or invites acting in poor judgment with regard to the trackers' security and safety? YES.

Never mind I know a lot of persons who belong to top trackers like FSC, FTN & etc. Do you think they really deserve to be there? They are members of every s3cret tracker, are they a good acquisition? Or are just pure collectors who want to show world they are capable to be member of every l33t tracker by giving lame and ass liking responses in forums & IRC.

In trading many bad persons exist, but this rulle applies also to giveaways.

Here's where I have a problem with some of you fucking heroes , how pray tell did you get started with trackers ? Suck a friends dick , promise a reach around ?

It starts with trust first and foremost and goes from there , little bit of of rope and see how she swings . :dabs:

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Whats wrong with being a trader?

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not a damn thing. period.


be what you want.

at FST: nothing wrong.
at trackers: possible security breach.

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Originally Posted by Cabalo

at FST: nothing wrong.
at trackers: possible security breach.

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This is what i came to realize recently i mean the security breach. My torrenting history can really be a damn book, better not talk about it. xD But trading can lead to best friendships ever. You make a transaction, you get to know the guy et cetera, also if i know for sure that he or she isnt a security breach, what is wrong with that anyway? Those traders that most call guilty in torrenting are the ones who help ya a lot about sites, invites et cetera, some of them are way more generous than some anti traders that keep their invite or sell it. It all depends on the people really, there are amazing traders out there that can help ya with anything... BTW i do believe that traders might not be a threat but gods gift to this community, but that doesnt mean i do trade cheat et cetera, keep the difference in your mind. I am already done with getting into sites i wanted to.

I don't think it's been pointed out that traders don't trade just invites nowadays. No, the majority of trades is account related. That's worse and gets us into a situation when a single person has multiple accounts at a tracker, just so he can trade them on.

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[Well in my entire career on FST I gaveaway moreless 100 invites. Is that bad?

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Yes, you'r supposed to invite your friends and not a bunch of idiots you don't really know.

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I have never been banned from any tracker other than for inactivity. Is that bad?

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I believe that. Since you might have new trackers every week, ain't hard to not get banned.

Possible security breach? BS!

Can someone explain me why some trackers that are against trading like bmtv, scl and bcg opened signups a few monts ago? Weren't they concerned about security? What if the bad guys joined the tracker at those open signups?

You`re bound to get fucked if you`re a trader, staff from sites will usually find out who you are then they talk to other site staff and you will be banned on a bunch of trackers :blink:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...shit_again.jpg

I think the "you dont know who you invite" argument is ridiculous.
FST is about file sharing, there are many giveaways and other forms of invite sharing.

If you think that a simple ratio proof gives you any legit information about how good the user you inviting is, then you are either a huge noob or a seriously naive person. Have you ever heard about photoshop ? haha

Let's make it straight, for trades you can also require proofs in order to protect your account from being banned. I did this many times.

Now I invited many people through giveaways and there is one thing all of you seem to forget. Well GIVEAWAY means free stuff, and how much appreciation do you have for something that is free (and perhaps lower lvl tracker) ? The answer is NONE.

And because of that people cheat very often. Back in OiNK times I've seen people with great ratio proofs and scores from speedtest and few days later it appeared inviters priviliges were disabled.
Trading on the other hand requries a transfer of invite in exchange for other invite. So you are paying for this and there is much more appreciation for these things.

Just to summerize, Trading and Givingaway is both breaking the tracker rules and are both the same things (u can trade with or withouty proofs, and same you can do with giveaways). I think this trend got popular because many people wanted to justify their pussyness and lack of success in the world of torrents and started to make traders look bad. I'm sorry I dont see any other logic explanation.

Also don't mix being a trader with tracker collector. And yes trades can make you more friends than licking ass on FST 24/7 hoping for free stuff. Once you make few friends like that you dont need to trade as much as you had before. Trading is more personal, giving away is like throwing food at bunch of hungry dogs - you cant get to know everyone of them.

Best Regards,
Akaidoresu

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

I think the "you dont know who you invite" argument is ridiculous.
FST is about file sharing, there are many giveaways and other forms of invite sharing.

If you think that a simple ratio proof gives you any legit information about how good the user you inviting is, then you are either a huge noob or a seriously naive person.

Let's make it straight, for trades you can also require proofs in order to protect your account from being banned. I did this many times.

Now I invited many people through giveaways and there is one thing all of you seem to forget. Well GIVEAWAY means free stuff, and how much appreciation do you have for something that is free (and perhaps lower lvl tracker) ? The answer is NONE.

And because of that people cheat very often. Back in OiNK times I've seen people with great ratio proofs and scores from speedtest and few days later it appeared inviters priviliges were disabled.
Trading on the other hand requries a transfer of invite in exchange for other invite. So you are paying for this and there is much more appreciation for these things.

Just to summerize, Trading and Givingaway is both breaking the tracker rules and are both the same things (u can trade with or withouty proofs, and same you can do with giveaways). I think this trend got popular because many people wanted to justify their pussyness and lack of success in the world of torrents and started to make traders look bad. I'm sorry I dont see any other logic explanation.

Best Regards,
Akaidoresu

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I would say you are not going in the "Right" direction because in torrenting there is only "one way" that is to be pursued... No matter what you argue, it wont make sense for some, i say let it be, go along with the flow swimming against a current might be tough sometimes, so better get used to it earlier, been there seen it. Except for some exceptions that are open to reason like stoii and people like him, nobody gives a sh... about what you argue really. I dont mean myself, i am willing to listen every possible argument but for some there is only one truth

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

Well in my entire career on FST I gaveaway moreless 100 invites. Is that bad?

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Yes

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

I have never been banned from any tracker other than for inactivity. Is that bad?

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No

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

I've been to many trackers and always shared my knowledge about them especially during the times when some trackers where really rare. Is that bad?

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Yes

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

Just because I can get into some websites faster than a normal person because I'm in possession of many invites

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BS

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

So can anyone tell me what's the problem? Is it just bunch of jeleous emo kids or there is some deep meaning into that? THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH and if there is please tell me where cuz I'm damn hungry.

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The problem is its against the rules, i wont even go in to why... because it doesnt matter. Trading works 4 u, great. U can do what u want, just dont come whining when u are banned somewhere, or cant get in to some tracker because of your "trader" label.

Glad I could help.

P.S. I have had some nice "free lunch's" maybe it's just u?

What about if the rules are not coherent with the trackers attitudes?
Like forbiding invite trading then offering randomly invites in the irc channel (tl), opening signups (scl, bcg, bmtv, etc) or almost blindly recruting in other trackers (ptn, its, what.cd, waffles, etc).

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Originally Posted by bilkenter

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

I think the "you dont know who you invite" argument is ridiculous.
FST is about file sharing, there are many giveaways and other forms of invite sharing.

If you think that a simple ratio proof gives you any legit information about how good the user you inviting is, then you are either a huge noob or a seriously naive person.

Let's make it straight, for trades you can also require proofs in order to protect your account from being banned. I did this many times.

Now I invited many people through giveaways and there is one thing all of you seem to forget. Well GIVEAWAY means free stuff, and how much appreciation do you have for something that is free (and perhaps lower lvl tracker) ? The answer is NONE.

And because of that people cheat very often. Back in OiNK times I've seen people with great ratio proofs and scores from speedtest and few days later it appeared inviters priviliges were disabled.
Trading on the other hand requries a transfer of invite in exchange for other invite. So you are paying for this and there is much more appreciation for these things.

Just to summerize, Trading and Givingaway is both breaking the tracker rules and are both the same things (u can trade with or withouty proofs, and same you can do with giveaways). I think this trend got popular because many people wanted to justify their pussyness and lack of success in the world of torrents and started to make traders look bad. I'm sorry I dont see any other logic explanation.

Best Regards,
Akaidoresu

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I would say you are not going in the "Right" direction because in torrenting there is only "one way" that is to be pursued... No matter what you argue, it wont make sense for some, i say let it be, go along with the flow swimming against a current might be tough sometimes, so better get used to it earlier, been there seen it. Except for some exceptions that are open to reason like stoii and people like him, nobody gives a sh... about what you argue really. I dont mean myself, i am willing to listen every possible argument but for some there is only one truth

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I'm not really concerned what the flow is simply because I already have what I need so for me trading torrents is a closed chapter.
But I hope there are people here who can at least notice some of the bias they seem to create with this negative point of view on traders.

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P.S. I have had some nice "free lunch's" maybe it's just u?

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It wasnt free my friend. Just someone paid it for you like for a homeless person. That's the difference.

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

It wasnt free my friend. Just someone paid it for you like for a homeless person. That's the difference.

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Care to elaborate? How does someone that I have become friends with giving me an invite amount to them "paying for you like for a homeless person."

These ppl got their invites without breaking any of the tracker rules, and broke no rules by inviting me. Even the few invites I have asked for here were given to me by people that knew me from other places, just didnt know I was looking.

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Originally Posted by FaithNoMore

What about if the rules are not coherent with the trackers attitudes?
Like forbiding invite trading then offering randomly invites in the irc channel (tl), opening signups (scl, bcg, bmtv, etc) or almost blindly recruting in other trackers (ptn, its, what.cd, waffles, etc).

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I really wish ppl would realize its not a democracy, trackers can do what they want, whether they choose to be complete hypocrites or jackasses doesnt change anything. If you dont agree with a trackers way of doing something, choose another. Bitching and moaning doesnt fix anything.

ITS THEIR RULES, if they say "no one over 6' tall", and find out you are to tall then ban u, that is their decision.

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

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Originally Posted by bilkenter

I would say you are not going in the "Right" direction because in torrenting there is only "one way" that is to be pursued... No matter what you argue, it wont make sense for some, i say let it be, go along with the flow swimming against a current might be tough sometimes, so better get used to it earlier, been there seen it. Except for some exceptions that are open to reason like stoii and people like him, nobody gives a sh... about what you argue really. I dont mean myself, i am willing to listen every possible argument but for some there is only one truth

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I'm not really concerned what the flow is simply because I already have what I need so for me trading torrents is a closed chapter.
But I hope there are people here who can at least notice some of the bias they seem to create with this negative point of view on traders.

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P.S. I have had some nice "free lunch's" maybe it's just u?

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It wasnt free my friend. Just someone paid it for you like for a homeless person. That's the difference.

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It is free mate, i have paid for someone to get into certain sites 2, and honestly i didnt think of it the way you did in your last post, he was my friend wanted to see him beside me on the same site, nothing more natural than this xD

There's nothing wrong with being a trader. :)

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Originally Posted by Bone.W.Machine

There's nothing wrong with being a trader. :)

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simple as that :) actually i lie it's not that cool to be a trader it was back in 2006 but not anymore :lol: try something new if you want to be cool

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Originally Posted by Swift

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Originally Posted by Bone.W.Machine

There's nothing wrong with being a trader. :)

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simple as that :) actually i lie it's not that cool to be a trader it was back in 2006 but not anymore :lol: try something new if you want to be cool

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It was much cooler to be a trader back in 2006 indeed.
Much more traders to trade with, now it's just the same guys on and on again...

Wow, hahaha this topic really scares me - I thought there are more serious people here :)

First of all when I say someone paid for it I don't mean money. I mean time, upload, goodwill and many others. Someone earned this invite in some way and then contributed this to you so it's not quite FREE because SOMEONE actually had to earn it.

Second, Giving away is also breaking the tracker rules (YES, some trackers are blocking users that got their invites from giveaways as well as banning the contributors) - simply inviting people you dont know is against the rules. So why noobs that have no idea about the torrents have the most to say?

The fact, that you begged 10 crappy invites doesn't make you a person who should really decide or judge whats right and whats wrong in the torrent universe.

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Originally Posted by That1Guy

I really wish ppl would realize its not a democracy, trackers can do what they want, whether they choose to be complete hypocrites or jackasses doesnt change anything. If you dont agree with a trackers way of doing something, choose another. Bitching and moaning doesnt fix anything.

ITS THEIR RULES, if they say "no one over 6' tall", and find out you are to tall then ban u, that is their decision.

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More funny than those inconsistent rules, are all the sheeps that blindly follow them. If there was a rule on those trackers like: "You can´t f#ck your girlfriend", I'm sure all those sheeps would stop f#cking (wait...they don't f#ck already).

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

Wow, hahaha this topic really scares me - I thought there are more serious people here :)

First of all when I say someone paid for it I don't mean money. I mean time, upload, goodwill and many others. Someone earned this invite in some way and then contributed this to you so it's not quite FREE because SOMEONE actually had to earn it.

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It was free for me

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

The fact, that you begged 10 crappy invites doesn't make you a person who should really decide or judge whats right and whats wrong in the torrent universe.

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definitely not talking to me...as i think i have received 2 maybe 3 invites through fst.

I wouldnt mind knowing what makes you "a person who should really decide or judge whats right and whats wrong in the torrent universe."

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

Wow, hahaha this topic really scares me - I thought there are more serious people here :)

First of all when I say someone paid for it I don't mean money. I mean time, upload, goodwill and many others. Someone earned this invite in some way and then contributed this to you so it's not quite FREE because SOMEONE actually had to earn it.

Second, Giving away is also breaking the tracker rules (YES, some trackers are blocking users that got their invites from giveaways as well as banning the contributors) - simply inviting people you dont know is against the rules. So why noobs that have no idea about the torrents have the most to say?

The fact, that you begged 10 crappy invites doesn't make you a person who should really decide or judge whats right and whats wrong in the torrent universe.

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if you ask me what we chating here about in fact it's against most country's law's !

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Originally Posted by Swift

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Originally Posted by AkaiDoresu

Wow, hahaha this topic really scares me - I thought there are more serious people here :)

First of all when I say someone paid for it I don't mean money. I mean time, upload, goodwill and many others. Someone earned this invite in some way and then contributed this to you so it's not quite FREE because SOMEONE actually had to earn it.

Second, Giving away is also breaking the tracker rules (YES, some trackers are blocking users that got their invites from giveaways as well as banning the contributors) - simply inviting people you dont know is against the rules. So why noobs that have no idea about the torrents have the most to say?

The fact, that you begged 10 crappy invites doesn't make you a person who should really decide or judge whats right and whats wrong in the torrent universe.

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if you ask me what we chating here about in fact it's against most country's law's !

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Please get on irc! I even joined the fun one just to chat with you. :fst:

AkaiiDorsu why don't you become one and find out for yourself. there's many theories to why trading is bad but you'll never know until you experience it for yourself

:offtopic:

Spoiler: Show

threads that are related to traders and non traders urges me to invent a convertor machine which will turn traders into non traders. We can all be non traders then xD the machine would cause memory loss of your trader history xD

seriously lets give this issue up, it is just a cliche that we all talk about. It is just torrent politiques, leave the issue aside and get whatever you want keep silent and move on, if anyone is into trading that much, then open a trader channel gather all traders in one msn or whatever.

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Originally Posted by bilkenter

seriously lets give this issue up

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Amen..You have no idea how many times this subject has been discussed in the past 2 months..Mods, sticky this alreadyyy

On a serious note. Get Artemis in here so he can put a stop to this. This is his favorite subject, only he knows how to bring the discussion to an end

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Originally Posted by Albo Da Kid

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Originally Posted by bilkenter

seriously lets give this issue up

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Amen..You have no idea how many times this subject has been discussed in the past 2 months..Mods, sticky this alreadyyy

On a serious note. Get Artemis in here so he can put a stop to this. This is his favorite subject, only he knows how to bring the discussion to an end

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I can 2 xD push me a lil harder xD and i will doom this topic forever xD, btw i havent been around here for a year or so, but i dont think anyone can actually discussed this issue more than me really, now i dont give a sh... about it, we cant change people not unless they are willing to listen. So no point in discussing it anyway, btw anyone who posts anymore in the issue will get a permanent ban xD gonna catch you all :gunsmilie

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Originally Posted by bilkenter

we cant change people not unless they are willing to listen.

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Exactly. I've also come to learn that with experience...besides no begginer stops and reads this boring threads anyway. We're the only fuckwits who keep beating a dead horse everytime one of these threads pops out.

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Originally Posted by Albo Da Kid

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Originally Posted by bilkenter

we cant change people not unless they are willing to listen.

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Exactly. I've also come to learn that with experience...besides no begginer stops and reads this boring threads anyway. We're the only fuckwits who keep beating a dead horse everytime one of these threads pops out.

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I say make a stickie, i dont think mods would be against it either because it wont favour anyone, let traders explain the reasons for their doings and advantages of trading(might lead to a real friendship et cetera) and on the other hand put the advantages of being a non trader, then let people choose whatever they wanna choose and close the issue for real. If there is to be a group of people to argue about both sides, i am always on for it, we might make it happen here.

Whats wrong with being a trader?

Being drunk and drinvingh 40milles.