What Are Members Worth? (WAMW)

It seems that one of the center points of this site is the WATW thread. It has been the focus of new members since its creation. I would like to offer up an alternative view. I will call it, "What Are Members Worth?" So many people have gotten fixated on the hierarchy of the trackers that they may have overlooked one major component of the community- the member.

Some people may laugh at this, others may take it to heart. That is entirely up to the individual. Some people need instant gratification while others make self-improvement a life-long goal.

Please think of this as a work in progress. I have based it loosely on Maslow's "Hierarchy of Needs" as I saw fit through my own personal growth and experiences. I hope that this becomes a starting point upon which we can give both new and old members a model to evaluate what they (the individual) brings to a tracker.

If you see areas that should be changed, or if you believe there are different criteria that should be thought of, please feel free to make suggestions. This document is meant to be malleable.

Level 1- The NOOB.
We all start out here in one form or another. Chances are, we don't know anyone, we don't know the rules, and we are eager to see how many invites we can receive. We will beg, borrow, trade, or steal to get them.

Level 2-Someone who has read the rules of the site. Yeah, until you sit down and read the rules, you are eternally a NOOB. Go read them!

Level 3- Someone who UNDERSTANDS the rules of the site. You are probably thinking, "Hey, that's the same as Level 2!" If so, go back and read the rules again. You know, just in case you missed something. We'll wait...no really, go...

Level 4- Someone who ASKS questions. If you do not know something, ASK. It is as simple as that. The alternative is to do something that could get you in trouble, could be acceptable- yet frowned upon. For example TRADING. Ask around. Some people do it, but a lot of people around here have a great disdain for people who do it. Once you have broken the rules of conduct- different than the site rules, you may find yourself socially isolated from many of the people who could help you.

Bottom line- Read some of the posts, get to know what is acceptable, and ASK if you are unsure.

Level 5-Someone who can ANSWER questions. Also, someone who is trustworthy. This is a stage where someone has been around this community for a while. They know the rules. They know what is acceptable. And they know how to act in a way that has earned TRUST from other members. This one is important. At this stage, the member is finally providing important functions for the site. People turn to them for answers and they know him/her well enough to expect that they will act appropriately. Members get a lot of invites at this level. And why shouldn't they? They have earned that kind of trust and respect!

Level 6-People who know "stuff". These are the people you can have fun and engaging conversations with. They are your buddies. They are active in forums that do not have anything to do with invites. These guys could really care less. Chances are, they have tried most of the sites and have focused on a few that "suits them". They discuss sports, games, pron, beer, women (respectfully, of course);) and anything else. These people get stand out because they have done and know "stuff".

Level 7-People who are either well educated or well-rounded. Real-life experiences! Sometimes people get tired of talking about sports, games,etc. Eventually, people want to have "serious" discussions. For this, you can either educate yourself (read tons and tons of books, wikipedia does not count) :noes: or go to school. At this level, bullshitters get spotted and chewed up. Know your stuff and you will be very welcome in these circles. Get in over you head, and you will now it REAL QUICK! This is as close to an academic "street fight" as you will ever come. Come prepared!

Level 8-People who strengthen the community. There are some people who can do everything below this and still have time and energy to make sure the community is a thriving entity. These people have earned a lot of respect and they deserve it. They might be moderators, they might just be setting good examples for other members to follow. They create thought-provoking discussions and bring people together.

Level 9-People with special skills used for community good. These are the coders, the graphic designers, the security experts- people who make the sites and communities possible for the rest of us. Most of these people have donated their time and skills. They are most likely professionals who believe in the community. They are rare gems and we most likely don't even know who they are.

Level 10a-The site owners. Someone came up with the idea for the site and made it grow. They did not do this alone, but it would not have happened without them. They are the "Ring Master".

Level 10b- Hot chicks who do exclusive webcam shows for the site members. This is the only "free pass" straight to the top. Just like IRL, if you are a hot chick who is willing to get naked, you probably don't need to offer anything else to the site. Anyone who says a negative word about you will be banned before they finish pressing [ENTER]. Generally, you are loved by everyone anyway.:yup:

Now it is up to you, FST. What needs to be changed, added, or removed. Or we can scrap this whole thing...:fst:

love it dude !

I'm 10b :yup:

you are one of the hot chicks ?

funny !
Maybe as level 10 (with 10a and 10b) you can add :
- Level 1a "The Noob" who wants to learn.
- Level 1b "The Noob" who doesn't care

It's a good read but you have a tendency for intellectual elitism.
You can have just as meaningful a discussion about the relative merits of American vs National league as you can about " nature vs nurture" or if Dostoevsky really intended Raskolnikov to be a sympathetic character or not?

I'll trade u my level 13 FST account for demonoid. Any takers?

As usual, good point, IdolEyes. I am not much of a sports fan and I have spent an above average amount of time in school. :)

I (with my bias) still believe that academia has a more serious level to it than sports and games. Being able to debate American vs National league may make you interesting in a bar, but an education will better prepare you for life (assuming serious study).

I also included Real-life experiences with the academic. People can learn much from books, but raising children, going to war, making life-changing decisions, and/or burying your spouse/parents will give you wisdom. Ultimately, people may need advice from someone who has experienced these things while they are probably only interested in sports trivia.

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

It's a good read but you have a tendency for intellectual elitism.
You can have just as meaningful a discussion about the relative merits of American vs National league as you can about " nature vs nurture" or if Dostoevsky really intended Raskolnikov to be a sympathetic character or not?

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I'm sorry, but that post went straight over the top of my head.

As for the opening post, it was interesting for me as I had brief glimpses of myself as I went through each level, from 1) (NOOB) through to 10a) (Site Owner). Fortunately, I haven't progressed to 10b) as I have no wish to put my body through a gender change operation (the cost is prohibitive, apparently).

A well written OP.

Cheers.

1. Although it is obvious why you stretched it to 10, this would have been more meaningful in 5 or less tiers (which would have been tied more closely with Maslow).
2. After trying to have meaningful discussions on several forums, I've found that most other members are either offensively ignorant or pseudo-intellectuals.
3. Viewing the relative worth of members on a torrent site based upon what they contribute to your myopic view of how a forum based community should be.
4. Based solely upon the verbiage in this post, it is clear you think you're at a Level 7. LOL @ an academic street fight taking place on a torrent forum.
5. Psychology and/or marketing classes are for idiots and/or douchenozzles. In order to reach the stage of self-actualization, Maslow needs to lick my taint.

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

but an education will better prepare you for life (assuming serious study).

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True to a point but as someone whose got a couple of degrees floating around and I can tell you it's the process of education and not any particular knowledge that prepares you for life.

I didn't even bother to read this .. hmm i'm lvl 1 never read the rules

realityhd,

1. Yes, I tried to use the "level" system that people are (overly) familiar with.
2. I am afraid you are (possibly) correct. You never know the background of the person you are engaging. They could be brilliant, they could just be someone with an opinion.
3. That is why I have asked for the community's help. A lot of new members come here an get fixated on becoming "elite". I am trying to give people who want to be an integral part of the community a road map. I believe it will be beneficial for individuals (who care) to ask themselves what they bring to the table.
4. I have only been here for about 4 months. I have even referred to myself recently as a NOOB. What I meant by the "academic street fight" was that there are not the same rules of conduct that you would have in an academic environment. No professor to bail you out; no knowledge if your "opponent" is a history buff who watched the Discovery Channel a lot, or someone with a PhD.
5. :unsure:

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

True to a point but as someone whose got a couple of degrees floating around and I can tell you it's the process of education and not any particular knowledge that prepares you for life.

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Now I can see it from the other side of the coin as I left school with very few qualifications. My sister on the other hand was in full time education until she was 22 and like you, had qualifications coming out of here ear-holes. Did this prepare her for life - no way. Although I'm only a few years older than her the difference in our knowledge of and attitude to life was light years apart. Of course each person is different and some mature and adapt quicker than others but sometimes education can closet you.

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Originally Posted by TheFoX

Fortunately, I haven't progressed to 10b) as I have no wish to put my body through a gender change operation (the cost is prohibitive, apparently).

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I have a sharp knife and 2 bricks if you would like to progress that little further.

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

but an education will better prepare you for life (assuming serious study).

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True to a point but as someone whose got a couple of degrees floating around and I can tell you it's the process of education and not any particular knowledge that prepares you for life.

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I could tell that you are highly educated, IdolEyes. I cannot tell exactly what you have studied, but I do know that you know a lot. I would not want to play Trivial Pursuit with you. Your comment about Dostoevsky is a good example of your desire to learn. I would put you in the "well rounded" category. You can most likely spot others who have been formally educated as well. It isn't necessary to carry your degrees with you. I believe that a good education shows through in everything that one does. That is, unless they ignore what they have learned...

u have nothing to do mega? go read book...

A level 7 member is more worth than a level 5 member. This is discrimination. :dabs:

Megabyteme, you put alot of thought into your post (as all of yours do), but I really have to ask you this.

What's the purpose of this list? Whats it supposed to accomplish?

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Originally Posted by Rart

What's the purpose of this list? Whats it supposed to accomplish?

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To get people to stop thinking about how great it would be to be part of one of the "elite" trackers and start thinking about what they actually bring to this community. Some will care, others won't.

I thought it would at least give people something to think about and maybe do a self-assessment. Would they even fit in to one of these "elite" sites if given "their dream" invite?

I think the site would honestly have to undergo some major revisions/purges before the majority of the members would really even read this unfortunately =/. It's a little too idealist for most people.

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Originally Posted by Rart

It's a little too idealist for most people.

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And long. :P

i fall in all lvls (except 10) at once:erm:

And how will you know "People who know "stuff"" ?!
99% of level 7, 8, 9 and 10 you will never find in here.
And "Ring Masters" are not always as brilliant as you think.

Basically what i see here is:
lvl 7 - VIP
lvl 8 - moderator, FLS
lvl 9 - coders, designers
lvl 10 - site owners/sysops

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

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Originally Posted by Rart

What's the purpose of this list? Whats it supposed to accomplish?

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To get people to stop thinking about how great it would be to be part of one of the "elite" trackers and start thinking about what they actually bring to this community. Some will care, others won't.

I thought it would at least give people something to think about and maybe do a self-assessment. Would they even fit in to one of these "elite" sites if given "their dream" invite?

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I can assure you traders looked inside this thread, saw a huge wall of text, and proceeded to open a trade thread looking something like "NEEd TTC HaZ MiNiNoVa".

And the group who relies on the WTAW thread will not change their views, because they realize you can't trade or collect with WMAW. :huh:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...WA/15zffv9.gif

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

I would not want to play Trivial Pursuit with you..

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I am a fountain of useless information.

What is education?

The general consensus is that education is learning from established institutions.

While this is partly true, education is really taking note of life, and what you learn from it.

Life is our classroom. Ask any soldier who is serving, or has served, in a conflict and they will tell you any manner of lessons they have learned from warfare, including how precious life really is, or how short it can be.

Some people can take that life changing step, and walk into a better life, whereas others are frightened to climb out of the rut they live in.

An education can give us the knowledge to tackle academic issues, whereas life can give us the knowledge to tackle real issues. Academic knowledge cannot prepare us for the rough and tumble of life. Only experience of life itself can prepare us for what life has to offer.

Whilst education is important,i think who you know and the networks that you build as you go on pulverize everything else.

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Originally Posted by sez

Whilst education is important,i think who you know and the networks that you build as you go on pulverize everything else.

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Your so right. A lot of the time it is not what you know, but who you know. One of the best examples of this was George Bush, the former President of the US of A. While his intellect was that of a retard, he became the most powerful man in the world for a short period of time, simply because he had a powerful dad and friends.

This Is funny dude, nice one... I've been laughing since I read the thread header.:lol:

Thank you for all of the positive and critical comments! This is exactly what I was hoping for!

I will try to respond the the posts on the page:

Rart- When it comes to the sharing of information (all forms) I make no apologies for being an idealist. I know that there will never be a community as strong as the one that I in-vision, but there is absolutely no harm in making posts like this to give members something to think about (if they care) and hopefully strengthen the community a bit.

zip- Some ideas cannot be expressed in 5 words or less. If people want to improve themselves (here and elsewhere) they are going to have to read at some point in their lives. I can only do my best- it is up to the individual and the community to decide if I have written something of interest or not.

ROD3NT- I think most of us fall into that category (a bit of everything). We can choose what areas we concentrate on improving, though.

schtuka- I see what you are saying, but as you "reach the top" of anything, it gets lonelier. I believe that is an important fact. It is also why people tend to seek out others with those same limited skills an abilities. While a lot of the people who have excelled at something (academic, sports, business, etc) enjoy teaching to people "on their way up", sometimes it is necessary to find people who can still challenge you- or even give you a good beat-down occasionally. And they appreciate the same.

IdolEyes- And we are VERY lucky to have you!

TheFox- Thanks, I believe we see things in a VERY similar manner.

sez- Very true. Are the people who get into these "stratified" positions through people they know, really a value to that community, or are they just there? While some may be able to "sneak in" I am talking about the people who really are an active and beneficial member of the community. You will have "collectors" and dead-weight anywhere.

Thanks, Lub! Very happy you enjoyed it. :D

rofl! Can I be 10a and 10b? :P

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Originally Posted by DanielleD87

rofl! Can I be 10a and 10b? :P

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Of course you can, my dear. Find a nice SysOp who wants a partner to help him run his site, and bingo, you have 10a). Since you already have 10b), your half way there.

;)

I'm from Missouri .Pics or it doesn't count.

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Originally Posted by DanielleD87

rofl! Can I be 10a and 10b? :P

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That's level 11. :wub:

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

Level 10b- Hot chicks who do exclusive webcam shows for the site members. This is the only "free pass" straight to the top. Just like IRL, if you are a hot chick who is willing to get naked, you probably don't need to offer anything else to the site. Anyone who says a negative word about you will be banned before they finish pressing [ENTER]. Generally, you are loved by everyone anyway.:yup:

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Psh, and we still have feminism...

well.. cheers MBM for being successful in making it look interesting..and it really made for an interesting read. :yup:
moving on, the 11 point scale of grading members was a bit stretched. It could have been easily condensed into 7 or 8 categories.But, anyway, the point you have raised is pretty valid..i give you a ten on ten for that.
i would have went on scrutinizing every aspect of this post, but i see that has already been done by folks.. and their concerns have been objectively addressed. Great job again MBM for putting it out well. :thumbsup:

PS: i took some time to think about the level i am presently at..and am pretty happy that i have progressed from level 1 to 3 as i understand the rules well..(I took my own good time..lol)
PPS: Networks.. another practical point raised by sez.. it does alter the equation in a big way.

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Are the people who get into these "stratified" positions through people they know, really a value to that community, or are they just there? While some may be able to "sneak in" I am talking about the people who really are an active and beneficial member of the community.

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alluding to RL,i guess it'll be kinda hard to answer that question.Granted(not a given)that if you graduate from a good school(amherst for example) you are bound to have more opportunities in life than somebody who pursued the same LA education as you but at some other unknown low level state U.

The success of this amherst fellow would largely be credited to the excellent alumni network that his alma mater has managed to maintain over the years and as a token of appreciation,he'll probably give back to his college so long as he's still alive.Now,the opposite is most likely the diegesis for the state U and its output academic.

I can't really flat out pick a side on this but given the above scenario,i think to some extent its probably fair and well deserved to be where you are coz of the people you know simply because it takes alot of effort to even have such a network of friends who have the ability to take you places(plus getting into amherst in the first place wasn't a walk in the park i would imagine:P.)

fair or unfair,i don't really know.

Congrats on level 3, n00bz0r! Don't worry, buddy, we won't trade ya. That is unless a 10(b) comes along... :D I really appreciate you taking the time to read it through and give your honest assessment!

I realize that 1-3 could be condensed. I thought that added some weight to the list. I really did not have to stretch to make the list "fit". In fact, I started with the first 3 and built up from there.

We are told to read the instructions everywhere. Most don't. Hell, I only do sometimes. And that's after I have screwed something up. :D

And, sez- very good analysis of the networking scene. It does take time and effort to cultivate and maintain those long-term relationships. Not everyone who goes to the "Big Name" schools bothers to use/be part of the networking system.

On a related note, I got to a point where my grad-school application was teetering in the very edge. I was told to get two additional references (much to my surprise, the two I had originally received did not come through for me the way I expected). I needed help and a contacted some people who had not been close friends, but I had kept in touch with over the years. When told them the situation, they stepped up. Big time! Did not hesitate and asked me exactly what I needed them to do. If either of them EVER needed anything from me, they would get whatever they needed.

That is the power of maintaining and cultivating relationships. It is also a bit of a cautionary tale on knowing what people will say about you before you count on them 100%. :)

to bad the real 'what are members worth' to the higher up community isn't completely in line with the original post but i find it fun regardless. :)

@KushBlow don't say that. The post is half (if not all) sarcastic. It isn't sexist...