The line between freedom of expression and trolling

Where does it lay here at FST? I have been gone for a couple weeks, and while I was gone, I see that there has been a ridiculous amount of offtopic inconsequential shit talking in many of the threads started here.

What real purpose does all that shit talking serve in the scheme of things? I know it's not a new concept that there is a loose hand as far as moderation is concerned in the BT section, if not the entire board, but really, how can some of the interactions here be considered even remotely constructive?

There are no linguistic acrobatics occurring like in the lounge, and very little in the way of info at all in the majority of the threads I see, even when they manage to stay relatively on-topic.

Granted, there is a lot of work done by the two mods of this section, but in my mind, there is a distinct difference between allowing a free hand toward expressing opinions, and standing idly by while people take a flamethrower to the target of their ire. Even when there is no opinion expressed, why is there always, inevitably, a marked level of aggressive response to anyone posting something in an inflammatory manner?

It's a vicious cycle that gets played out over and over and over again here, and I can only wonder if it's unavoidable. Make no mistake, I don't believe that the blame lies with the moderators here anymore. I used to way back when I first joined here, but as time has progressed, it has become fairly obvious to me that the concept is far more universal than just FST.

Perhaps I am just too idealistic for my own good, but I really don't think it's natural for everyone to be so hateful all the time. 99% of the time there is no foundation to that hatefulness beyond hearsay and unsubstantiated guessing. Often times, there isn't even that much in my estimation. Frequently, it's just a matter of the aggressor not liking the individual they are talking to, and behaving as if it's the end of the world that they must share space on a message board with someone they don't like, while rarely ever knowing the person they don't like.

The truth is, we as file sharers have the capacity, through sheer numbers, to foment change in this world, but all the bickering and pointless name calling serve no purpose but to distract us from our potential as a world changing entity. I'm sure people will lol at that idea, but it's the truth.It's an idea that dictates most of my actions in this field at this point in time, and one that I think could make a positive change on this planet. Some of the smartest people I have met in my life are active members of BT and to watch them squabbling makes me grit my teeth as it only demonstrates a further proof that we as a whole waste our energies on interpersonal distractions and petty rivalries that only serve to weaken that potential I see around me.

At the end of the day, we share a common bond. That bond is our sharing of files we, for whatever reason, refuse to spend our hard earned money on. Some reasons may be more idealistic than others, but we all have our reasons. The ideal that we should be allowed to share what we wish is what drives me. Beyond just movies and music, I include knowledge of any sort which is readily available through the process of torrenting. The stifling of knowledge in any form is abomination to me, and I feel we are on the brink of a new era in society, in which information is going to either be a commodity, or a heritage of our species. Like it or not, filesharing is playing an integral part in that determination and while we piddle away our days talking shit about nothing of any import, we are wasting a golden opportunity to play a part in that global adjustment of how we view knowledge/wisdom/info of any sort.

So, I guess I should ask, am I just self-deluded, or am I seeing things in a way that others can at least lend some validity?

ok u can just stay in the trade section and do ur business

The troll's will never cease to exist in FST. They are what bring's FST it's epic lols, which are required for all good lulz.

kthx

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Originally Posted by yankeezfan1

The troll's will never cease to exist in FST. They are what bring's FST it's epic lols, which are required for all good lulz.

kthx

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Well, see, the thing is, I don't really think it's just FST. It's so prevalent here because there is an inherent neutrality toward all sites here, so no side taking happens. Or least rarely happens. My big problem is with the inherent tendency toward trolling that goes far beyond FST.

I just don't understand why people continue to beat dead horses like they are some modern musical instrument with the constant back biting and hateful talk. To see a thread go a dozen pages with not a single on topic post makes me wonder why there is such a disjointed attitude among torrenters. Is it the inherently competitive nature of private trackers in the hunt for bandwidth?

True. Most people that use BT end up becoming a member here someway. Some abuse their accounts and use proxies to expose others private info or to tell stories about what some guy did a year or two ago. They are in it for the drama. Is funny to see sometimes but people don't post it with their real nick. They should stop hiding behind a fake account to post cheap shots at someone? That is being a punk. Some members are here just for propaganda,to stir BS. Not aiming this at anyone directly.
There are a lot of shady members mixed with good members and we all know that. It probably will not change. It is what someone makes of it. The rest is human nature. People want what they cant have. They here some site is good they are want to be a part of that. There lies all the drama. If trading stopped here it would continue somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by Intr4ns1t

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Originally Posted by yankeezfan1

The troll's will never cease to exist in FST. They are what bring's FST it's epic lols, which are required for all good lulz.

kthx

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Well, see, the thing is, I don't really think it's just FST. It's so prevalent here because there is an inherent neutrality toward all sites here, so no side taking happens. Or least rarely happens. My big problem is with the inherent tendency toward trolling that goes far beyond FST.

I just don't understand why people continue to beat dead horses like they are some modern musical instrument with the constant back biting and hateful talk. To see a thread go a dozen pages with not a single on topic post makes me wonder why there is such a disjointed attitude among torrenters. Is it the inherently competitive nature of private trackers in the hunt for bandwidth?

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I think it is perhaps too much to ask to consider the possibility of us sharing a "common bond" under filesharing. The inherent nature of the BT section and the people around it could never permit that. There will always be different opinions, separate ideals, among other things.

However there is a difference between personal vendettas and difference of opinion.

Difference of opinion is what forums thrive on, it allows discussion and the free flow of ideas. That's why I like this forum so much, as compared to other "torrent invite communities". I can say what I want, whenever I want and no one will give a crap.

The line is drawn at personal vendettas. For some reason, the BT forums have been under the attack of massive amounts of trolls that seemingly randomly post threads to complain about their injustices in rare, l33t sites I have never even heard of nor care of. They attack members and the only points they seem to make are claiming that every member is a old, 40 year old with no life. And it doesn't even have to be a trolling alt account. A lot of recent drama has surrounded the likes of cabalo/albodakid, and while I don't know them well enough personally to comment on whether it was "just" or "fair" those kinds of things should be taken to PM's. I don't care about the random bt drama of 1 person and it can be taken elsewhere.

Ultimately, this recent influx of trolling, inflaming posts and drama has left me reluctant to have any incentive to post here. What do I do, post in one of the trolling threads that has developed into a giant flamefest just to make it even worse? Theres just nothing to say. I guess in the end it is really up to the mods, and what they consider to be allowed or not. Or perhaps more threads like that could be moved to the lounge. I personally feel like the amount of alternate trolls being created purely to flame members have gotten out of hand recently, but its really dependent on the BT mods to ultimately decide.

Two theories on recent flagrant trolling come to mind.Either it an orchestrated effort to devalue this place or much more likely it's the last pathetic grab at attention of those humiliated else who see FST as their last resort.

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

Two theories on recent flagrant trolling come to mind.Either it an orchestrated effort to devalue this place or much more likely it's the last pathetic grab at attention of those humiliated else who see FST as their last resort.

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Or,

It could just a phenomenon, explained by the fact, that smart people, will always, have always, trolled stupid people.

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

Two theories on recent flagrant trolling come to mind.Either it an orchestrated effort to devalue this place or much more likely it's the last pathetic grab at attention of those humiliated else who see FST as their last resort.

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I have to lean toward the latter as well tbh. I also have to agree with Rart on the apprehension to post here as that trolling is so rampant. Perhaps I just expect too much of my fellow human beings in the long run, but I really do feel we have the capacity both as individuals and as a group, to make dramatic changes to the world. Just look at how BT exploded. Just imagine if that energy were focused on a common goal and how fast change could happen if people got over themselves for just a couple minutes a day.

Now, it doesn't escape me that I am sounding hopelessly hopeful about this stuff, but all throughout the course of recorded history, the acts and words of a few people in concert with each other have quite a few times brought a dramatic change to the way the world views itself and how the people in that world have looked at each other too. I also realize that I am arguing psychology more than anything else, but does that mean I should not see it's effects on the realm I choose to invest my time in?

I fully accept that the diversity in opinions is necessary, as well as unavoidable, but how we share those opinions is up to us as individuals, and if we choose to endlessly cast unfounded aspersions on peoples charachters just because we can, we do everyone including ourselves a disservice.

I don't hold out much hope for Utopia. Societies historically know three stages: creation,growth and decadency.
It's basic science really - the concept of entropy - that nature tends from order to disorder in isolated systems.

I'm curious now, is this all in the BitTorrent section? If so wow, but I never visit but like once a month, and lay a opinion now and disappear into the dark again for another month or two.

Yea basically. It's where most of the trolls tend to gravitate toward.

well trolling's part of the system...not just here, its practically on all forums...ofcourse its more prevalent here due to the nature of the site (and the number of users)

Most people don't even post.I would absolve them of all trolling liability if they would just frickin say something.

That phenomenon has a very simple explanation: how easy it is to signup at FST, or let me rephrase that, how easy it is to return to FST once their first account got in someway discredited.
This makes it a playground for users that come here from other places treating this place as the trash bin of the BT world, and brag to their other e-friends how randomly they attacked the X user here and got away unpunished, or that they will create a new account tomorrow just for flaming purposes.
This creates a very defensive attitude of some of the older members, and those who make this forum one of the most active out there, if not the most of all in the BT scene. Because they know these attitudes will always be tolerated to a certain extent, and as there isn't an active hunt to those dupe accounts they can troll as much as they want, until eventually they're again caught, because in most of the cases they always are.

But, don't get me wrong, this kind of attitude is needed here, just it should be slightly tweaked and be more proactive on some returning troublemakers.

Until this happens there will always be an ambiance of mutual distrust towards the new members, as plenty of those just come here to devalue the forum, as it was said before.

Let's face it without trolls this place would be empty as hell, give me a break, most people here never have anything useful to say, should we call it trolling? Because when it comes to new people saying something and not the usual gang, then it is call trolling, and that's the truth.

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Originally Posted by pentomato

Let's face it without trolls this place would be empty as hell, give me a break, most people here never have anything useful to say, should we call it trolling? Because when it comes to new people saying something and not the usual gang, then it is call trolling, and that's the truth.

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I could see that, although myself am still kind of new here, well by join date. I talk a lot, it's my human nature. I don't consider myself trolling, but I'm sure some "people" (only the ones that think there entitled, or just plain on a high horse)....so that could be true what your saying, but it all deals with the context of what is "said" ;)

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

Most people don't even post.I would absolve them of all trolling liability if they would just frickin say something.

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well the way i thought things stood...people here do post but only when they need something (and then totally throw the rules out of the window in the process)

that's practically trolling too

People who don't understand the true value of FST only come for an invite , make a few posts so that they appear like to be a good member and then disappear when their request is granted.
I don't know about you but I think the type of person who does that wouldn't be the type of person that would make a very good member of whatever tracker they used FST to into.

precisely what I mean...and in a lot of ways, that's like trolling imo

and that's precisely why I intend to be a lot more active here nowadays...my only issue is a lack of time (and its a pretty big issue since I'm in a bit of a mess atm) but I'm hoping to get over that soon enough

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

People who do understand the true value of FST only come for an invite , make a few posts so that they appear like to be a good member and then disappear when their request is granted.
I don't know about you but I think the type of person who does that wouldn't be the type of person that would make a very good member of whatever tracker they used FST to into.

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You really think that's the only value of this place? I must really be wasting my time here then because I've never gotten an invite through this place. :pinch:

I guess what irks me about the latest trend is the lack of worth of that trolling I'm whining about. There is such a thing I think, worth I mean, and if done well can be quite constructive, albeit caustic. I guess by virtue of that I agree with pentomato about the necessity, but the asinine, lazy, name calling, non topical drivel is over that line. In my opinion of course.

Interesting that this thread atttracted the regular Bit-tard trolls. kooltilldend, cabalo, pentomato. Perhaps they see it as an opportunity to justify their trolling. :unsure:

well if I'm trolling then believe me, I don't need a reason to explain to anyone

besides I think my kind of trolling (if you can call it that) is better than the random mess that gets posted in places on this site

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Originally Posted by Intr4ns1t

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

People who do understand the true value of FST only come for an invite , make a few posts so that they appear like to be a good member and then disappear when their request is granted.
I don't know about you but I think the type of person who does that wouldn't be the type of person that would make a very good member of whatever tracker they used FST to into.

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You really think that's the only value of this place? I must really be wasting my time here then because I've never gotten an invite through this place. :pinch:

I guess what irks me about the latest trend is the lack of worth of that trolling I'm whining about. There is such a thing I think, worth I mean, and if done well can be quite constructive, albeit caustic. I guess by virtue of that I agree with pentomato about the necessity, but the asinine, lazy, name calling, non topical drivel is over that line. In my opinion of course.

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:pinch:Woke up this morning to see that I typed do instead of don't .Sort of changes what I was trying to say doesn't it?

Editing now.:frusty:

I think you were spot on the first thyme.

If you really thought that you wouldn't bee hear.

I'm not here. I'm in the lounge.

Then I appear to be talking to myself .:(

Appearances aren't everything. You just look menthol. :smilie4:

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

People who don't understand the true value of FST only come for an invite , make a few posts so that they appear like to be a good member and then disappear when their request is granted.
I don't know about you but I think the type of person who does that wouldn't be the type of person that would make a very good member of whatever tracker they used FST to into.

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And what is the true value of FST? So if someone makes lots of post like many people here, they are giving value to this place?
As I said before the majority here are brain dead, the only thing they do is to attack others gang style and you know it, the one's that talk the most, are the one's that have nothing to say.

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

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Originally Posted by Intr4ns1t

You really think that's the only value of this place? I must really be wasting my time here then because I've never gotten an invite through this place. :pinch:

I guess what irks me about the latest trend is the lack of worth of that trolling I'm whining about. There is such a thing I think, worth I mean, and if done well can be quite constructive, albeit caustic. I guess by virtue of that I agree with pentomato about the necessity, but the asinine, lazy, name calling, non topical drivel is over that line. In my opinion of course.

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:pinch:Woke up this morning to see that I typed do instead of don't .Sort of changes what I was trying to say doesn't it?

Editing now.:frusty:

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It' makes a world of difference, and tbh I was kinda surprised when I first read it :P

@ Something Else, this thread was originally posted in the BT section, so that may have something to do with the folks from the BT section posting in it ;)

@pentomato at the very least, they keep this place active

if nobody was posting (useful or otherwise), this place would be dead in a matter of days

don't get me wrong though...i'm not encouraging bs posting...i'm just saying, it doesn't hurt as much as you think...the worst it does is increase the work load for the mods :P

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

I don't hold out much hope for Utopia. Societies historically know three stages: creation,growth and decadency.
the concept of entropy

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Originally Posted by pentomato

Let's face it without trolls this place would be empty as hell, give me a break, most people here never have anything useful to say, should we call it trolling?

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I'm still new to what exactly trolling actually is, but if its just having a go at someone or simply talking c**p then surely a system thats controlled correctly and justly would promote healthier debates or just conversations? :unsure: