Are torrent invite communities really trading in disguise?

Now before I really go into this, I'll detail what I normally see on FST:

If someone wants to join a site, they'll make a request and post it in the invite section.

After its posted, people will view the thread and decide whether the poster is worthy of an invite.

When they decide whether someone deserves an invite, they look at their past activity on the site. Have they been making useful posts or just spam? Have they made trades or posted in the trading section before? Have they ever had an account before, or made a request before? If you haven't noticed, one thing is missing: their BT rep.

I've rarely, if ever, seen someone judge a potential invitee by their past giveaways. Most people realize that many members are sketchy at best, and they realize people don't want to risk giving invites out on FST (not to mention many sites ban public GA's). Now that's not to say giving out invites would hurt your chances. If you lack in activity, having given out invites previously could help. I've never seen someone post on a invite request saying "You're a really good and active member of the site, but you haven't given away enough invites".

The key idea is that a BT rep of GA's isn't required.

But now turn to torrent invite communities.

I define trading as this: You are giving an invite with the intent of expecting something in return. Tracker staff ban this as it encourages invites to be given solely by the value of the invite, while ignoring the value of the member. This results in more banned members, more hit and runners, a slower site overall, and more work for the staff.

In torrent invite communities, You are giving an invite with the intent of expecting something in return.

Debate it as much as you like, but invites are almost never given out for the sole purpose of giving out invites. "Rep", along with posts, is one of crucial factors in "climbing up the ranks". Every GA has a rep requirement. If you're a 10,000 post member with no rep, you are not getting an invite. Rep is the most essential factor in acquiring an invite. Sure, you may be giving up a precious invite right now, but you are expecting great dividends. You are giving away an invite now in exchange for getting an invite later.

Take for example one thread I had seen. He was a relatively new member, probably around 1 month. I looked at his GA thread - he had SCC, GFT, the works. Oh an I forgot to mention, he had 8 SCT invites. Within a matter of days, they were ALL given out in rapid succession. He gained huge amounts of rep. He was a star in the community. Now, I know that SCT invites aren't given out for free. Once in a blue moon they may have a competition that gives out 1 or 2 invites, but this guy had 8. There was a recent 2x bonus for donations. But that still equates to paying for 4 invites, which is 50 euros. And by donating for invites you get zero upload credit. All given out, in a matter of days, to the most shady of members, collectors on invite sites. Now, you may argue that this was an act of generosity. But that is the minute exception. More than likely, it was probably a member quickly giving out invites in the hope that he would bolster his rep enough to quickly get an FTN invite (which apparently seem to be all the rage nowadays).

I ask you this: how is this different from trading? You are giving out 8 SCT invites, to total strangers that could very well get you banned from the site, not to mention that that's 50 euros in cold hard cash. You are giving out the invites, with the sole intention of expecting something in return: a high level invite because you are now a reputable member. Reputable, not from posts, activities, or past actions, but because of giving out invites. The sole principle that torrent invite communities revolve around. How is giving something and expecting something in return not trading?

Jesus Christ.

We've had more trolls recently here than the lounge ever will, chalice. Let's get something going. You must've used some kind of filesharing right, otherwise how did you find this forum? Say something.

You're really caught up with Invite forums aren't you

I never understood the criticism against trading, so I'm gonna go and give you the benefit of the doubt without even reading what you wrote.

Everyone trades

But they call it something else, its more refined...

anyway, i won´t read all this, its very late. Bye everyone

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Originally Posted by Rart

We've had more trolls recently here than the lounge ever will, chalice. Let's get something going. You must've used some kind of filesharing right, otherwise how did you find this forum? Say something.

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I've used just about every form of file sharing you'd care to imagine.

In the days before time, I used to have a sticky in this section as to whether Suprnova was up or down. This was pre-private tracker days. True story. I also witnessed a lot of private trackers take shape.

I came here primarily cos there was a link in the Kazaa-Lite client to this forum. It was called KLTalk or something then.

I made a load of friends and I've never had a problem as far as p2p goes ever since. Then I went away. When I came back, the majority of the place had morphed into a trading forum.

However, many of my friends were still there, having formed bonds, and were railing, to some degree against what they know is the forum and what it is becoming.

And around and around and around she goes. Where she'll stop, no cunt knows. :01:

I read what you have to say and i must agree with what that member did was essentially buy his way into an "elite" status expecting to get something in return. Personally i am against spending money on invites even if it is donating to the site (because of what this user did) i think that if like the site donate without expecting something in return. Yes fst has allot of trolls(you probably include me as one of them) but i truly believe in peoples good intentions and hope that if i do give someone an invite he will use it properly. All for all i do think that this phenomenon is negative but there is no way of stopping it in the near future

Aha, but I know people who have gained considerable amounts of rep without ever having a GA or filling a request.

omfg...

u really have think so deep and so hard to write all that and make all those connections..

Geez,i understand people hate trading and thats that,but u,on the other hand,are taking this to the next level.ur whole point here is giveaways should also stop....which means ass kissing should be the future.i hope this never happens.

Thanks for reducing my post to the most radical and basic derivatives.

I gave out one invite away on one of those secretive invite forums, aptly named IC. I gave an FTN invite to someone chosen based on the fact that they had a slow home connection, which I felt would be a good fit with a ratio-free tracker. Within a week, the fucker had buffered his account with a friends seedbox to 525GBs. Over a year later, he has maybe 10GBs more. I don't know whether he leeches all the time and that is the result of his slow connection or whether he just barely touches his account now that the novelty wore off. Whatever, I couldn't do anything else with the invite except give it away to some random dude posting two ratio proofs and a speedtest.

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Originally Posted by TrollinThunder

I gave out one invite away on one of those secretive invite forums, aptly named IC. I gave an FTN invite to someone chosen based on the fact that they had a slow home connection, which I felt would be a good fit with a ratio-free tracker. Within a week, the fucker had buffered his account with a friends seedbox to 525GBs. Over a year later, he has maybe 10GBs more. I don't know whether he leeches all the time and that is the result of his slow connection or whether he just barely touches his account now that the novelty wore off. Whatever, I couldn't do anything else with the invite except give it away to some random dude posting two ratio proofs and a speedtest.

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thats a real shame but like you said you gave it away to some random

dude that's your problem you should give it to someone you know and

will use the account easier said then done but that's the best way for you

to feel good about giving away your invite

I gave one to a real life friend who barely used it either since he liked seeding on Bitsoup better.

Fwiw I don't really care about either since invites expire. Besides, some random dude gave me my invite...

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Originally Posted by Rart

Thanks for reducing my post to the most radical and basic derivatives.

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Some people appreciate the effort.:yup:

You have way too much time on your hands. I don't trade because I cherish my sites and don't want to stir any unnecessary trouble. Honestly though who cares. If a trader uses the site and helps keep torrents active then really what is the big deal.

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Originally Posted by TrollinThunder

I gave one to a real life friend who barely used it either since he liked seeding on Bitsoup better.

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The same thing happened to me. I made it a point to give invites to friends with crappy connections and some decided to never use the place either.Doesn't bother me though because I told them that they were under no obligation.
That's the funny part you get some satisfaction from actually seeding things instead of just increasing someone else' s upload amount.

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Originally Posted by TrollinThunder

I gave out one invite away on one of those secretive invite forums, aptly named Invite Central. I gave an FTN invite to someone chosen based on the fact that they had a slow home connection, which I felt would be a good fit with a ratio-free tracker. Within a week, the fucker had buffered his account with a friends seedbox to 525GBs. Over a year later, he has maybe 10GBs more. I don't know whether he leeches all the time and that is the result of his slow connection or whether he just barely touches his account now that the novelty wore off. Whatever, I couldn't do anything else with the invite except give it away to some random dude posting two ratio proofs and a speedtest.

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these days no one in the 'torrent scene' really appreciates sites for the content, especially ftn. Its simply a place to build your elite e-dentity, a trophy. its sad, because ftn is the ideal track for people with a slow home connection.

That's my big complaint about general tracker forums - that no one seems to care about the content .The movie and TV sections are mostly comprised of what's the last movie you watched?
Some people even put this like The.Tournament.2009.DVDRip.XviD-MoH That's not a movie that 's a release you fucking idiot.

Whew. that felt good. Been wanting to get that off my chest for a while.

For most part i agree with OP observation and interpretion of what is going on here in FST giveaway forum and what goes on in those secret invite forum. This thread may start a new way to view those activities

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

That's my big complaint about general tracker forums - that no one seems to care about the content .The movie and TV sections are mostly comprised of what's the last movie you watched?
Some people even put this like The.Tournament.2009.DVDRip.XviD-MoH That's not a movie that 's a release you fucking idiot.

Whew. that felt good. Been wanting to get that off my chest for a while.

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I couldn't agree more.

But if they rate it (always with a number between 5 and 10 rather than 1 and 10) it means I don't have to think for myself before watching.

@NippleCake: Exactly! So many new people around the scene think having a TB uploaded in a week makes them cool or something.

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Originally Posted by Rart

Thanks for reducing my post to the most radical and basic derivatives.

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Don't expect an intellectual discussion on a forum where most people aren't capable of one.

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Originally Posted by vergo

Don't expect an intellectual discussion on a forum where most people aren't capable of one.

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last time i checked, discussions were way more "intellectual" here than on any invites forum where ass kissing and hypocritical congratulations seems to be the norm..

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

That's my big complaint about general tracker forums - that no one seems to care about the content .The movie and TV sections are mostly comprised of what's the last movie you watched?
Some people even put this like The.Tournament.2009.DVDRip.XviD-MoH That's not a movie that 's a release you fucking idiot.

Whew. that felt good. Been wanting to get that off my chest for a while.

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I'm glad you said that and I completely agree. Some take their time to put a rating besides the release. It's almost always a 9/10 (you can't give it a 10, that'd be weird, lol).

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Originally Posted by cinephilia

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Originally Posted by vergo

don't expect an intellectual discussion on a forum where most people aren't capable of one.

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last time i checked, discussions were way more "intellectual" here than on any invites forum where ass kissing and hypocritical congratulations seems to be the norm..

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qft

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Originally Posted by cinephilia

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Originally Posted by vergo

Don't expect an intellectual discussion on a forum where most people aren't capable of one.

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last time i checked, discussions were way more "intellectual" here than on any invites forum where ass kissing and hypocritical congratulations seems to be the norm..

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For most it's true. And it's not about asskissing as much as it's about the actual absence of intelect at most sites. 2+ line posts are a rarity and it's not only cause people try to inflate their post count; some are not fluent in english, others just don't have anything to say.

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Originally Posted by vergo

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Originally Posted by Rart

Thanks for reducing my post to the most radical and basic derivatives.

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Don't expect an intellectual discussion on a forum where most people aren't capable of one.

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As far as I know it only takes two people to have a discussion ( or fight) so unless you want to amend "most people" to "no one " the comment is self negating.

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Originally Posted by The_Martinator

I'm glad you said that and I completely agree. Some take their time to put a rating besides the release. It's almost always a 9/10 (you can't give it a 10, that'd be weird, lol).

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I give that comment a 9/10.
I'd have rated it a 10 but it's a little derivative ,lacks fluidity and the ending disappoints.

[QUOTE=IdolEyes787;3315345]

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Originally Posted by vergo

I give that comment a 9/10.
I'd have rated it a 10 but it's a little derivative ,lacks fluidity and the ending disappoints.

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Thanks! :P

It's not really a question, people don't just give away invites without expecting something back for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Benjamin

It's not really a question, people don't just give away invites without expecting something back for themselves.

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Speak for yourself some like myself need nothing in return.

You are absolutely 100% correct. The worst example I've seen of this is on a site called TTInvite, where invites are exchanged for 'invite points', and any user 'giving away' an invite can stipulate the number of invite points they want to receive in return. This basically means that trading is similar to a bartering-based economy, and invite giveaway communities are currency-based economies.

Then, the invite communities act all righteous and claim that "we're not causing any harm, we ban trades, we only do giveaways!"

The thing is, tracker staff who've given the issue some thought don't dislike trades any more than giveaways. Both of them are equally bad in our eyes, because both of them fundamentally undermine the reasons the torrent sites are invite only in the first place.

Torrent sites are invite-only because the admins need to keep the site secure and keep the economy working. Once random people start getting invited in, no matter if it's a trade or a giveaway, both of those pillars start collapsing. This is why the so-called 'anti-traders' who think they're all cool because they only give away invites really get to me.

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

That's my big complaint about general tracker forums - that no one seems to care about the content .The movie and TV sections are mostly comprised of what's the last movie you watched?
Some people even put this like The.Tournament.2009.DVDRip.XviD-MoH That's not a movie that 's a release you fucking idiot.

Whew. that felt good. Been wanting to get that off my chest for a while.

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you and i are one a similar wavelength, frequency and speed :happy:

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Originally Posted by WhatMan

You are absolutely 100% correct. The worst example I've seen of this is on a site called TTInvite, where invites are exchanged for 'invite points', and any user 'giving away' an invite can stipulate the number of invite points they want to receive in return. This basically means that trading is similar to a bartering-based economy, and invite giveaway communities are currency-based economies.

Then, the invite communities act all righteous and claim that "we're not causing any harm, we ban trades, we only do giveaways!"

The thing is, tracker staff who've given the issue some thought don't dislike trades any more than giveaways. Both of them are equally bad in our eyes, because both of them fundamentally undermine the reasons the torrent sites are invite only in the first place.

Torrent sites are invite-only because the admins need to keep the site secure and keep the economy working. Once random people start getting invited in, no matter if it's a trade or a giveaway, both of those pillars start collapsing. This is why the so-called 'anti-traders' who think they're all cool because they only give away invites really get to me.

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This is also a great point. Public giveaways imo are even more of a security risk, half the time all they want is a speedtest/ratio proof, if that.Anyone can apply and it is porbabaly easier to get some invites in a giveaway than a trade. Public invites -> bad

Just wondering, but how come what.cd dont have some sort of arrangement with fst where invites are not allowed to be given out? or are you only allowed to make agreements on trading..

@TrollinThunder, exactly! its just the fact that there is no point joining a site just for the trophy of it. I would have absolutely no qualms inviting people to my favourite trackers, but i know they would only want to be invited just so they can say "i am at such-and-such". Those people piss me off no end!

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Originally Posted by primevil

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Originally Posted by Benjamin

It's not really a question, people don't just give away invites without expecting something back for themselves.

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Speak for yourself some like myself need nothing in return.

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I meant to say smart people.

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Originally Posted by WhatMan

This is why the so-called 'anti-traders' who think they're all cool because they only give away invites really get to me.

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Haha, those kind of people bring the word hypocrite to a whole new level.

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Originally Posted by WhatMan

You are absolutely 100% correct. The worst example I've seen of this is on a site called TTInvite, where invites are exchanged for 'invite points', and any user 'giving away' an invite can stipulate the number of invite points they want to receive in return. This basically means that trading is similar to a bartering-based economy, and invite giveaway communities are currency-based economies.

Then, the invite communities act all righteous and claim that "we're not causing any harm, we ban trades, we only do giveaways!"

The thing is, tracker staff who've given the issue some thought don't dislike trades any more than giveaways. Both of them are equally bad in our eyes, because both of them fundamentally undermine the reasons the torrent sites are invite only in the first place.

Torrent sites are invite-only because the admins need to keep the site secure and keep the economy working. Once random people start getting invited in, no matter if it's a trade or a giveaway, both of those pillars start collapsing. This is why the so-called 'anti-traders' who think they're all cool because they only give away invites really get to me.

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Internet communities with more than 100,000 members are an accumulation of random people no matter what invite policy you have or how people were invited.

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Originally Posted by Polarbear

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Originally Posted by WhatMan

You are absolutely 100% correct. The worst example I've seen of this is on a site called TTInvite, where invites are exchanged for 'invite points', and any user 'giving away' an invite can stipulate the number of invite points they want to receive in return. This basically means that trading is similar to a bartering-based economy, and invite giveaway communities are currency-based economies.

Then, the invite communities act all righteous and claim that "we're not causing any harm, we ban trades, we only do giveaways!"

The thing is, tracker staff who've given the issue some thought don't dislike trades any more than giveaways. Both of them are equally bad in our eyes, because both of them fundamentally undermine the reasons the torrent sites are invite only in the first place.

Torrent sites are invite-only because the admins need to keep the site secure and keep the economy working. Once random people start getting invited in, no matter if it's a trade or a giveaway, both of those pillars start collapsing. This is why the so-called 'anti-traders' who think they're all cool because they only give away invites really get to me.

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Internet communities with more than 100,000 members are an accumulation of random people no matter what invite policy you have or how people were invited.

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:unsure:

It's interesting to see just how many sites one individual has become a member on. Considering that I only have 5mbits down and 1mbit up on my connection, it's easy to saturate my up bandwidth with torrents from one site -how could I possibly be a valuable contributor on multiple sites?

There is, however, the benefit of bringing new content from one site over to your own.

So, here I am wondering what these multi-site members are looking for:
1. The best layout/speed/content/stability/privacy and that's why they look for greener pastures at so many different sites?
2. Access to multiple sites to always have the best quality and newest content available when they want it?
3. Bring members from other sites over to your own preferred one to bolster it up?
4. Collect elite membership "trophies" as mentioned earlier in the thread.

Considering a sense of community and contribution, I am hard-pressed to see why sites would want members who are active on many other sites, and thus I see why invite-trading is so discouraged (not to say that give-aways don't go to people who are already members of many sites).

*and I do realize that not all sites cover the same type of content, but I still see plenty of overlap.

It's a tough battle, this invite business.

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Originally Posted by WhatMan

You are absolutely 100% correct. The worst example I've seen of this is on a site called TTInvite, where invites are exchanged for 'invite points', and any user 'giving away' an invite can stipulate the number of invite points they want to receive in return. This basically means that trading is similar to a bartering-based economy, and invite giveaway communities are currency-based economies.

Then, the invite communities act all righteous and claim that "we're not causing any harm, we ban trades, we only do giveaways!"

The thing is, tracker staff who've given the issue some thought don't dislike trades any more than giveaways. Both of them are equally bad in our eyes, because both of them fundamentally undermine the reasons the torrent sites are invite only in the first place.

Torrent sites are invite-only because the admins need to keep the site secure and keep the economy working. Once random people start getting invited in, no matter if it's a trade or a giveaway, both of those pillars start collapsing. This is why the so-called 'anti-traders' who think they're all cool because they only give away invites really get to me.

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Thank you for being one of the first to actually respond to my topic...

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Originally Posted by Polarbear

Internet communities with more than 100,000 members are an accumulation of random people no matter what invite policy you have or how people were invited.

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I would have to agree with Polarbear. I was under the impression that most staff didn't approve of trading simply because it breeds bad users. Invite GA's on the other hand (while avoiding the trouble of torrent invite sites) would allow higher quality users through the examination of proofs, activity, ect.

With a site of 100,000 members, can you really expect anything more than "an accumulation of random people"? And even so, the what.cd interview would seem to point out that any RIAA spy could find their way in assuming they knew their music. So how could this policy of banning invite GA's and only allowing close friends (many of which could be new to the BT scene all together, and inadequate to handle What.CD's tough competition for upload), be beneficial to the tracker? Wouldn't it just decrease the userbase of a site built on a large amount of content and retention?

while i agree with Whatman about the inconvenients of such processes, no one can deny the fact that without GAs and trades, what.cd would never have 100.000+ members at the present time.

PS: great topic Rart, i 100% agree with your analyze.

Er, I don't think WhatMan was saying that what.cd's methods have resulted in a clean, trusted body of 100,000 members.

It doesn't matter how many hoops you make people jump through to get into your site, unwanted people will still get in, play by the rules, and stay there. Some say that anti-p2p operatives are in EVERY known community and have been making sure they watch every new site and join it for many years now.

So it's about choosing the best ways to minimize this unavoidable reality while still allowing however many good new members you want to trickle in for you site. If you're a tracker that wants to attract *as many* good members for your site as possible, I agree with being "non-movement" but ONLY if you offer an interview process as well.

I am a STRONG believer in the interview process, it's how I got into what.cd, my first private tracker, it was what made me actually believe in private trackers. Before that, I couldn't find a way into OiNK for THREE whole years, and the trading thing I could never even break into either (tit for tat - well I did't even have tat so how could I have tit?). Ironically, as I learnt, that was a good thing anyway.

So Rart? For me, the interview process is a more effective system than allowing invites to be given away in invite forums (which among other things harbours tracker collecting), but no method is flawless and can 100% keep out the authorities.

I like e.g. TPS and the fact that some honest good people can join trackers by showing their worth to others (flaws in that system and all). *If* there were more trackers doing IRC interviews, I wouldn't be so alright with this. It just depends on how hard the tracker in question wants it for people to join their tracker.

And anyway, if a tracker is ok with gieaways at private forums, isn't that THEIR business? They have the right to distinguish between trading and giveaways, which *are* different things. One is just more secure and less risky than the other (depending on how it is done - TPS is very different to TTinvite). But nothing is perfect.

I do believe in non-movement, don't get me wrong - but if you say that anti-traders who believe in giveaways are hypocrites then you're also saying that the staff of the trackers allowing that are also hypocrites. It's just a matter of what your opinion on the issue is, and how secure you want your site to be.

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Originally Posted by Polarbear

Internet communities with more than 100,000 members are an accumulation of random people no matter what invite policy you have or how people were invited.

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Ok then,so whats your point exactly?
You rarely post retard but I think you just let this one slip.Unless of course maybe my interpretation is wrong.

In other news,I noticed FST has finally decided to be 21st and introduce the web bookmark functions.Good move I must say.They would have been really handy in the prime of that swedish nutter swe :lol:

But no facebooking or tweeting I see,I wonder who decided against those two :P.
But I did hear that gay and metrosexual aren't necessarily the same thing :unsure:

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Originally Posted by dvdasacd

I do believe in non-movement, don't get me wrong - but if you say that anti-traders who believe in giveaways are hypocrites then you're also saying that the staff of the trackers allowing that are also hypocrites. It's just a matter of what your opinion on the issue is, and how secure you want your site to be.

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The non-movement list is one of the things I can't really understand in TPS. I'm tvseries maniac and I want to join BitmeTV for example. Noone is allowed to request or ga invites of this tracker. I'm a good user with perfect proofs. What's the point of not allowing to request? Is there something I can do except pming highly reped guys offering bj in private?