What is it with 'exclusive' torrents?

This has been bugging the fuck out of me for a long ass time.

What is it with torrent sites and their "exclusive" packs or rips or whatever? People steal shit and then don't want other people to share it with others... I see rips and packs and in the description it will say "Exclusive to blah blah, please do not upload other places" or sites like f** that say their packs shouldn't be uploaded anywhere else, like they created the shit.

Now, I understand that it takes work to say encode a movie or create a pack, but I thought the whole idea was to share with everyone. I find it arrogant and self-serving in a way to say that an encode or pack is 'yours' and you should not upload it anywhere else.

How is it not hypocritical to steal someone elses work and then not want someone to 'steal' yours? Its counterproductive and assinine.

Explain please.

exclusive scene packs are fkin retarded but encodes are some1s own work

as if anyone gets his stuff because of leeches like you and their morality bs, when in reality you're just pissed you don't get -everything- for free.
no, i don't think you understand it takes work.

You talk like someone makes you join sites with exclusive content or packs. Don't download it and be happy.

The same problem is with Scene 1337$, they have the same shitty attitude, with out us , the file sharers, the scene would never exist
I don't see the point in doing a release and encoding or reversing and at the end they'll be uploaded to some topsite with IRC channels echoing that so others get it and upload it to other sites, and then the original thieves ask for shit not to be stolen again.
If you steal and don't respect copyright, how the *uck you ask other people to do so?
I'm sure that The Scene look at P2P communities as "Scene Whores", but there are P2P people who make their own releases and hundreds who release "Indi"s everyday

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Originally Posted by nextom

as if anyone gets his stuff because of leeches like you and their morality bs, when in reality you're just pissed you don't get -everything- for free.
no, i don't think you understand it takes work.

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Originally Posted by pretend

You talk like someone makes you join sites with exclusive content or packs. Don't download it and be happy.

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You don't seem to understand what puckface is saying.It's just the whole concept of bt is about sharing and that concept some people have seem to lost track of.

ANd to answer the question imo site defined exclusives are maintained for basically the same reason that there are platform exclusive games . As for indivuals marking their uploads as exclusive they are looking to up their own profile at whichever you are talking about.
Again this is just my opinion and by no means necessarily fact.

i fail to see the big difference between conception of exclusive torrents and conception of private trackers in general. both are oriented to organise better conditions of sharing by placing the whole process in limited and controllable atmosphere, both have the goals to create something like black holes, places that will automatically attract uploads, seeding and all related stuff

This is kinda not really what you're talking about but if you're talking about say music home rips that you don't want shared anywhere else (it's common at P's and E***o) - it's for security, mainly. I personally hate exclusive sharing myself, and my true passion lies in public and open sharing, but you've got to respect other people's wishes if you want to partake in the same community where they're releasing that exclusive content. I'd rather take part in a community and benefit from what I can get out of it and follow the rules and (reluctantly) resist my urges to share it with others outside the allowed circle, than to A. break the rules and face the constant risk of getting caught and then no longer benefiting from the content or B. not taking part in the first place due to my preference for open sharing - and missing out all along.

For me this applies to the Scene, too - in principle. They're just an exclusive community (like any other file sharing community or network) which just so happens to release extremely desirable material yet don't condone sharing of that material outside that community - for security.

And I also know of physical private music trading circles, ones with exclusive content shared between a small group of elite/lucky fellows within a certain area of interest (there used to be a lot more of them before p2p started to proliferate) and they have the exact same principle - they don't want to draw the attention of authorities and be completely underground.

Another situation where you can see wishes of exclusivity (and this one is resonable imo, but still tough to accept since I love the "sharing for all" concept) - is that there's a special crack or hacked version/workaround of a program and if the knowledge of that crack were too public, the content creators would then release an update to counter that hack or workaround. This is not uncommon in game/console cracks and some software cracks that I have seen. A lot of stuff even today exists that the public is completely oblivious to.

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Originally Posted by pretend

You talk like someone makes you join sites with exclusive content or packs. Don't download it and be happy.

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I totally disagree with the whole 'exclusivity' thing. BT is all about sharing what you have... you make reference to the OP not being forced to join sites where 'exclusive' packs etc are and it being his choice... What about the encoders?

If they wanna encode things and put them 'out there' in BT world... why should the rules of BT change to suit the encoder? If they don't want their work spread, then either a) Don't encode, or b) Don't release it into an environment created to encourage sharing.

I agree with the OP about it being laughable for people to pirate releases from all the big named studios, and then have the cheek to 'claim them' as their own, and to decide who can and can't download it i.e. only if you are a member of such and such a site... it's a complete nonsense :lol:

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Originally Posted by kukushka

i fail to see the big difference between conception of exclusive torrents and conception of private trackers in general. both are oriented to organize better conditions of sharing by placing the whole process in limited and controllable atmosphere, both have the goals to create something like black holes, places that will automatically attract uploads, seeding and all related stuff

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I'm sorry but I don't see what limiting availability has to do with sharing.If you want to make a case for security fine,.If you wish to say that it forces certain individuals not inclined to otherwise do it fine but as soon as you started to use words like limited and controlled in regards to sharing you lost me.

Same argument regarding controlling content of forums .To limit is to deny the whole point.

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

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Originally Posted by kukushka

i fail to see the big difference between conception of exclusive torrents and conception of private trackers in general. both are oriented to organize better conditions of sharing by placing the whole process in limited and controllable atmosphere, both have the goals to create something like black holes, places that will automatically attract uploads, seeding and all related stuff

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I'm sorry but I don't see what limiting availability has to do with sharing.If you want to make a case for security fine,.If you wish to say that it forces certain individuals not inclined to otherwise do it fine but as soon as you started to use words like limited and controlled in regards to sharing you lost me.

Same argument regarding controlling content of forums .To limit is to deny the whole point.

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simple: for average user who has his hdd full. what stuff that he seeds he'll delete first to free some space that he need - stuff from demonoid or from bmtv? my wild guess is that majority of ppl if they will face similar problem will keep bmtv stuff. black hole effect. with other aspects it's just like that.. those who can get access to a place with quality stuff, uploaders, longest seeding etc etc will do it and will bring their own resources there. and exclusive content is one of the things that makes place attractive. and keeping it exclusive attracts more quality users that can't get it otherwise. pure sharing just don't work that good, it's just like communism failure

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Originally Posted by kukushka

simple: for average user who has his hdd full. what stuff that he seeds he'll delete first to free some space that he need - stuff from demonoid or from bmtv? my wild guess is that majority of ppl if they will face similar problem will keep bmtv stuff. black hole effect. with other aspects it's just like that.. those who can get access to a place with quality stuff, uploaders, longest seeding etc etc will do it and will bring their own resources there. and exclusive content is one of the things that makes place attractive. and keeping it exclusive attracts more quality users that can't get it otherwise. pure sharing just don't work that good, it's just like communism failure

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I see some of the logic in what you are saying here. I take it you mean that if a user can only get a certain kind of upload at a certain tracker (ie exclusivity), then they'll use that tracker and bring along with them their bandwidth, HD space and whatever else they have in their collection and effectively help to make that tracker a little bit better?

It's a fair point, and if it worked in practice then it might be true, however, and just like the example you used with sharing... exclusivity doesn't work that well either... doesn't matter who you are or what you encode/upload or try to limit to a certain type of tracker, it rarely stays there. I've actually been on trackers where upload comments have mentioned certain packs being sourced from 'tracker a' and "against the rules", only for another member to say that it is actually from 'tracker b' and arguments to ensue that way... it's crazy. The exclusivity just doesn't work either imho.

I think the original point the OP was making though was that it was kind of hypocrytical for 'pirates' to release packs/encodes or whatever else onto a tracker and to then have the cheek to say that their contribution hasn't to go anywhere else, despite the fact they 'pinched it' in the first place.

And I have to say I agree with them.

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

It's a fair point, and if it worked in practice then it might be true, however, and just like the example you used with sharing... exclusivity doesn't work that well either...
I think the original point the OP was making though was that it was kind of hypocrytical for 'pirates' to release packs/encodes or whatever else onto a tracker and to then have the cheek to say that their contribution hasn't to go anywhere else, despite the fact they 'pinched it' in the first place.

And I have to say I agree with them.

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it doesn't work absolutely but it's not a matter of absolute, it's just a matter of different factors and their % of being effective.

as for hypocrisy - there's no absolute moral around and sharing pirated stuff isn't an exclusion so any moral thesis that is being used around is from more global point of view can be found quite relative, in other words - hypocrytical :)

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Originally Posted by nextom

as if anyone gets his stuff because of leeches like you and their morality bs, when in reality you're just pissed you don't get -everything- for free.
no, i don't think you understand it takes work.

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Originally Posted by pretend

You talk like someone makes you join sites with exclusive content or packs. Don't download it and be happy.

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Ok, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed so excuse me, but no one said that I was moral, or that I was against it... there is no need for any accusatory tone and calling me a leech, for that I will tell you to fuck right off.

Secondly, I was asking a question, if you dont like my questions.. again, fuck right off.

Thirdly, as a couple people have pointed out, I was wondering this because I do find it against the spirit of torrenting itself, also in my original post I conceded that it does take work to encode a film or create a pack (read for once in your lives), and coincidentally I have done both. But, keep in mind you are encoding someone elses original work, what now makes it 'yours' is the question.

Also, I do agree with one post saying that exclusivity on packs are total bullshit, which is one reason I dont use my f** account....

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Originally Posted by kukushka

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

I'm sorry but I don't see what limiting availability has to do with sharing.If you want to make a case for security fine,.If you wish to say that it forces certain individuals not inclined to otherwise do it fine but as soon as you started to use words like limited and controlled in regards to sharing you lost me.

Same argument regarding controlling content of forums .To limit is to deny the whole point.

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simple: for average user who has his hdd full. what stuff that he seeds he'll delete first to free some space that he need - stuff from demonoid or from bmtv? my wild guess is that majority of ppl if they will face similar problem will keep bmtv stuff. black hole effect. with other aspects it's just like that.. those who can get access to a place with quality stuff, uploaders, longest seeding etc etc will do it and will bring their own resources there. and exclusive content is one of the things that makes place attractive. and keeping it exclusive attracts more quality users that can't get it otherwise. pure sharing just don't work that good, it's just like communism failure

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Communism failed at the top not at the bottom.Those that had access to power abused it and it then became very much a class ( or worse) system, the antithesis of what was originally intended( see any parallels here).
Great for the proletariat but not so good for the workers.

Historically Communism may not work but neither does the type of isolationism you support. Not equating the two but you do realize that the" limited access to a select few "mentality is basically at the heart of all prejudice and social injustice.

I don't mean to take this into a political semantics discussion, but the communism that failed was far from that encouraged communal activity (the kind Marx would envisage), what failed was democratic centralism. (An organised revolution carried out by professional revolutionaries is a recipie for despotism, afterall). The fact that people make their stuff available to only a select few is in fact what killed the idea of Leninism and then Stalinism (their bastardised idea of communism/Marxism) and had absolutely nothing to do with the lack of sharing at the proletariat class level. Idol says it nicely.

the thing is that open, "good" systems are working exactly in cases where they don't get abused. which requires either self stable system or exclusively good people to participate in. since open stable systems are hard to impossible to build and people in general aren't that good, it brings us borders and other shit which can be called injustice, but it's just trying to filter stuff in selected areas from the mess that is all around

and please don't misunderstand me, i don't support such kind of systems, i just see that it's working and i use it to some extent.

I mostly agree with dvdasacd's post. My personal opinion is that the rule (especially in the case of packs of scene or previously released content) is a cancer on the BT community. In the case of the music exclusivity sites, I think it's a cancer not because the rule itself is terrible, but as a sign of a larger problem with the uploaders themselves. When I upload a rip there, it's because I want to present my upload to the community... have it shared, have it whatever. It's for the enjoyment of the music.

Many other uploaders have this sense of entitlement about themselves. It's my rip, therefore I own it. I deserve upload credit on my own upload, I deserve to show the staff no respect, I deserve to keep these files exclusive and not shared elsewhere, despite the entire SPIRIT of what we're doing is to share our files with others.. Sure, putting together scans and a nice description may take hours, but you chose to do that to share them with others, I don't see why the files being on another site should detract from that.

It all ends up with these people with ratios of around 16 complaining about how the guy with the seedbox and a ratio of 1.13 is "overseeding" ;)

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Originally Posted by Ewwwyourface

exclusive scene packs are fkin retarded but encodes are some1s own work

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So is the original work being encoded.

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Originally Posted by ca_aok

It all ends up with these people with ratios of around 16 complaining about how the guy with the seedbox and a ratio of 1.13 is "overseeding" ;)

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How can anyone with a ratio of around 16 complain about anyone else overseeding? :lol:

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

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Originally Posted by ca_aok

It all ends up with these people with ratios of around 16 complaining about how the guy with the seedbox and a ratio of 1.13 is "overseeding" ;)

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How can anyone with a ratio of around 16 complain about anyone else overseeding? :lol:

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I could link you to actual forum posts if you were a member where I was thinking ;) I understood the general idea as being "well my ratio is that high because of how many albums I upload, these overseeders are stealing the upload from my own torrents".

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Originally Posted by ca_aok

I could link you to actual forum posts if you were a member where I was thinking ;) I understood the general idea as being "well my ratio is that high because of how many albums I upload, these overseeders are stealing the upload from my own torrents".

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Some things just defy logic :lol:

I very much doubt I'm a member of wherever it is you're thinking of mate, I don't belong to any 'uber leet' trackers that I'm aware of, and if you can't refer to it then I know I'm definitely not :P but I can well believe you :)

My own statement:

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

How can anyone with a ratio of around 16 complain about anyone else overseeding? :lol:

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was really one of incredulity... :lol:

Yeah I personally dont really get the mentality behind forbidding stuff to be upped elsewhere (especially packs made of a bunch of scene stuff). But I still respect the site/uploader enough that I follow that rule when it's there. If something a site does bothers me enough, I just use another site :shrug: .

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Originally Posted by That1Guy

I still respect the site/uploader enough that I follow that rule when it's there.

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Yeah, same here... just because I don't agree with the ruling/site policy, it doesn't mean I'd just blank it and carry on regardless...

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

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Originally Posted by That1Guy

I still respect the site/uploader enough that I follow that rule when it's there.

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Yeah, same here... just because I don't agree with the ruling/site policy, it doesn't mean I'd just blank it and carry on regardless...

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I fully agree with following the rules and the encoders wishes, I was just curious about what others thought and if they found stealing other peoples' stolen stuff made sense.

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Originally Posted by puckface

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

Yeah, same here... just because I don't agree with the ruling/site policy, it doesn't mean I'd just blank it and carry on regardless...

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I fully agree with following the rules and the encoders wishes, I was just curious about what others thought and if they found stealing other peoples' stolen stuff made sense.

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if you steal exclusive pack with a content stolen from scene, it's already triple stealing :)

To be honest... I don't even see an argument FOR exclusivity...

Either it's some sort of 'Scene Pack' which has been thrown together and claimed as a Trackers own release.... which is crap as not only is it just a collection of already available releases, but it's also stolen as well...

OR

It's an encoders own encode, which has been produced from a stolen source, then uploaded in a community initially designed for sharing... how can you claim exclusivity for that? As I said earlier... if you don't want your work made available elsewhere then either don't encode, or don't release it into an environment designed for 'sharing'... I'm pretty sure someone else will encode it who doesn't care if there work is released in other places.

I really don't see how anyone can steal something then moan if it gets 'stolen' from them... I'd love the logic explained to me :lol: The only caveat I would put on that would be that the file names should at least stay the same... people renaming releases/encodes/files to look like their own work is a big no-no :nono:

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

To be honest... I don't even see an argument FOR exclusivity...

Either it's some sort of 'Scene Pack' which has been thrown together and claimed as a Trackers own release.... which is crap as not only is it just a collection of already available releases, but it's also stolen as well...

OR

It's an encoders own encode, which has been produced from a stolen source, then uploaded in a community initially designed for sharing... how can you claim exclusivity for that? As I said earlier... if you don't want your work made available elsewhere then either don't encode, or don't release it into an environment designed for 'sharing'... I'm pretty sure someone else will encode it who doesn't care if there work is released in other places.

I really don't see how anyone can steal something then moan if it gets 'stolen' from them... I'd love the logic explained to me :lol: The only caveat I would put on that would be that the file names should at least stay the same... people renaming releases/encodes/files to look like their own work is a big no-no :nono:

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My EXACT point. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

To be honest... I don't even see an argument FOR exclusivity...

Either it's some sort of 'Scene Pack' which has been thrown together and claimed as a Trackers own release.... which is crap as not only is it just a collection of already available releases, but it's also stolen as well...

OR

It's an encoders own encode, which has been produced from a stolen source, then uploaded in a community initially designed for sharing... how can you claim exclusivity for that? As I said earlier... if you don't want your work made available elsewhere then either don't encode, or don't release it into an environment designed for 'sharing'... I'm pretty sure someone else will encode it who doesn't care if there work is released in other places.

I really don't see how anyone can steal something then moan if it gets 'stolen' from them... I'd love the logic explained to me :lol: The only caveat I would put on that would be that the file names should at least stay the same... people renaming releases/encodes/files to look like their own work is a big no-no :nono:

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I guess some trackers might throw together a bunch of packs, and mark them as exclusive in the hope that people will flock to their tracker in order to become part of the tracker with the so called amazing packs.

I don't agree with it, though. Sharing is caring <3 By all means claim credit for the rip/encode/upload, but how about we let everyone get a chance to sample your work? :cool:

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Originally Posted by ca_aok

I mostly agree with dvdasacd's post. My personal opinion is that the rule (especially in the case of packs of scene or previously released content) is a cancer on the BT community. In the case of the music exclusivity sites, I think it's a cancer not because the rule itself is terrible, but as a sign of a larger problem with the uploaders themselves. When I upload a rip there, it's because I want to present my upload to the community... have it shared, have it whatever. It's for the enjoyment of the music.

Many other uploaders have this sense of entitlement about themselves. It's my rip, therefore I own it. I deserve upload credit on my own upload, I deserve to show the staff no respect, I deserve to keep these files exclusive and not shared elsewhere, despite the entire SPIRIT of what we're doing is to share our files with others.. Sure, putting together scans and a nice description may take hours, but you chose to do that to share them with others, I don't see why the files being on another site should detract from that.

It all ends up with these people with ratios of around 16 complaining about how the guy with the seedbox and a ratio of 1.13 is "overseeding" ;)

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Yes, I think that any other reason for exclusivity other than security and safety is stupid and I vehemently disagree - any other reassons I can think of are just pompous. Even still, I respect the wishes of others. After all, they DID provide the content for us.

The only pratice which should be standard across all communities, is stating who the original ripper was. That's nothing more than standard courtesy and quality of sharing and is all I ever ask people who share my own rips elsewhere to do. Even then, I don't throw a tantrum if they didn't, because what matters is that people get the music. And the only real reasosn is so that people know decent info about the rip (and in my case, that it was a good rip since I did it ;) ). It's for quality of sharing, I don't even require the courtesy of thanking me for the original work. People always do anyway.

Also a cancer in the file sharing world, is pride and status...some releasers can just become so full of themselves, and I HATE it when I see someone do a rip that's superior to another's and that other person sees it as 'competition'. Or competition between communities...

Humility is to be treasured and is a natural part of the sharing spirit. I know other uploaders/staffers with the same humble attitude and I quietly LOVE them for it.

Gosh...so many things which can corrupt the noble concept of sharing things with each other...money, status, pride, jealousy, legality...All should be avoided as much as possible so that nothing stands in between what should be our greatest ideal.

The Scene had the same spirit of 'public sharing' once...it's only once the FBI stepped in and put Sceners in jail from the 90s onwards that they completely changed and became uber security-focused. I don't blame them...but still wish that things could be more decentralised official public sharing of the latest movies and music and software. Power in numbers? :|...anyway I love seeing p2p groups release 0-day material and I like seeing when a scene group becomes a p2p group (because they want to)...it's nice and means they are prepared to risk it and care more about sharing with others. I find the russians very much have this attitude, they have a great empire of public cracking and music/movie sharing, they almost don't even need the scene...almost.

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Originally Posted by kukushka

if you steal exclusive pack with a content stolen from scene, it's already triple stealing :)

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But at least it gets less and less evil as you go down the chain ;)...or is it more evil? :P

Nice post dvdasacd, something for everyone to think about.

care to link me to that funny post ca_aok?
If someone uploads something from me I am totally fine with not getting any credit as long as he doesnt say he did it. I also try to stay away from anything exclusive, if its not too interesting, which very rarely is the case. When a release from ths for instance hits a public tracker, I can understand, that its annoying bc it just draws too much attention.
e: thx for the link, wont go through 13 pages to find that hilarious post though, I remember I took a look at that thread before ofc.. and I am one of the guys with < 50 KB/s upspeed..

Yes I agree.

Ideally, the motivation behind ripping should be sharing.

But often its not really. It's an ego trip, so uploaders dislike it when their rips are shared offsite and they dont get the recognition.

Sites pander to these ego trips when they mark rips as exclusive because it keeps the uploaders happy so they get more content.

Personally, the thanks I get when I upload to a site mean a lot. But I get as much satisfaction in knowing that my rips will spread beyond the site and bring pleasure to many other people too who have never heard of my screename.

After all, the people at the site I upload to arent any less anonymous than any other people who eventually get the file at other sites.