Trade perception !

I was searching for a title of this thread and not sure but hopefully this will give more sense what i will try to say !

As of now perception about traders are "dirt of p2p" as i see on most comments and i`m sure that this will not change even after millions of threads like this!

My question would be are all traders the same? Getting an account here passing it over there, or who knows sell it on other forums etc.

What if someone would like to get in somewhere and because of the non-existent good giveaway threads the only option is to giveaway(trade) one of his invite for the invite he really wants !
Is this makes that person "dirt of p2p" ? means he will be a bad user at that tracker he just got in ?

I really would love to see a different trade section on the forum, different rules to give away or receive an invite that would change imo the perception of most about traders !

Expecting lots of "attacks", but would love to see replies with sense !

Cheers !

This has been discussed to death before. The bottom line is that as soon as you trade, you took the easy way out and broke tracker rules and our trust in the first place. While I agree that there are different varieties of traders and some are worse than others, when you reduce tracker invites to a commodity you become a trader.

There is no way we could possibly have a separate system for what you describe, and most of the prolific traders would probably just pretend to use that section as you describe to get more accounts.

Tracker staff are never going to look on you as anything but a trader and a rule-breaker, a different section won't change any of that. When you sign up for a site, you agree to follow their rules, which you aren't doing.

Normally I'd say if you want a tracker, request it, but when you're a trader you've summarily shot yourself in the foot in the Giveaway/Request section anyway. I'd never trust anyone with trader rep or posts in a giveaway, regardless of their reasons, which is perhaps why you're having problems finding invites. There's not much inclination to invite someone to a site when they're going to treat it like a commodity that can be swapped later when something better comes along.

By the way, you'd be surprised how many people here have invites for the so-called "hard to join sites" and are simply sitting on them. Community participation and a well written request with reasons other than "packs" and "legendary community" quoted from four year old reviews might work better than you think.

Could be some interesting replies to this thread... although like ca_aok has said. It's already been covered to death.

My own belief is that trading invites is wrong. It goes against pretty much every sites rules, and whether you choose to believe it or not, it is also capable of compromising a sites security because at the end of the day do you REALLY know who you are trading with? Or is your desire to get what you're trading for possibly clouding your judgement over who you are inviting to a site... in fact in some instances traders aren't even members on the tracker's invite they are trading... so why should they even care?

I'm not stupid enough to think that my own opinion is definitive, or the be all and end all... other people think there's is nothing wrong with trading, that's down to them.

Invites are given out so that members can invite 'friends' or people they have gotten to know over a period of time, and who they feel relatively confident in not to abuse their 'trust'... not to be used as a currency to get something you otherwise would never have been able to get by more honest and forthright means. You can use the argument that a trader may in essence become a good user and that trading was the only way to gain membership to whatever site, but I would think they would possibly be in a minority... you only have to look at the trades section on here to see traders re-trading invites they've not long acquired in order to get something else...

Again, ca_aok is right when he says that you would be surprised how many members on here actually do have invites to these "hard to join sites". It's just that they choose not to give away invites to people who they feel would either abuse them or to people who would possibly compromise their own membership on these trackers... and I'm talking from experience too.

Just being a decent member who contributes and takes part without throwing attitude around the place and being an ass in general does surprisingly open up many doors to the extent that I don't see why any decent forum member would ever have to trade in the first place...

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Originally Posted by killour

What if someone would like to get in somewhere and because of the non-existent good giveaway threads the only option is to giveaway(trade) one of his invite for the invite he really wants !

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Giveaways are also against most trackers' rules.

Basically, everything is against trackers rules.
After all, they are dictators, and young ones.

As I said before, I separate traders in two categories: the level hunters, and the needy ones.
The latter are those who traded like once or twice and actually kept their accounts because they were just looking to join that specific tracker and didn't bother go much further.
The former are the scum of bt, usually involved with selling. They are just playing by the rules trackers created, when some decided to make things harder to join, or when they decided to allow donations to buy invites.

It's the trackers fault in the first place, the rest is just the human nature working. And some specific countries with their mentalities.

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Originally Posted by Cabalo

Basically, everything is against trackers rules.
After all, they are dictators, and young ones.

As I said before, I separate traders in two categories: the level hunters, and the needy ones.
The latter are those who traded like once or twice and actually kept their accounts because they were just looking to join that specific tracker and didn't bother go much further.
The former are the scum of bt, usually involved with selling. They are just playing by the rules trackers created, when some decided to make things harder to join, or when they decided to allow donations to buy invites.

It's the trackers fault in the first place, the rest is just the human nature working. And some specific countries with their mentalities.

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http://www.myemoticons.com/emoticons...ite/inlove.gif

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Originally Posted by anon-sbi

Giveaways are also against most trackers' rules.

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Exactly ! I was just waiting for someone else to say it !

Just by being a member of an invite forum is already a rule-breaker, same as giving away invites or even just by mentioning their names outside of their tracker ! The inclination towards traders is worst because of the "perception" created and if i look at the trade section i can see why !

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Originally Posted by Burnsy

and whether you choose to believe it or not, it is also capable of compromising a sites security because at the end of the day do you REALLY know who you are trading with?

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i agree Burnsy, you don`t know exactly who you are dealing with, but it`s the same by inviting someone from the Giveaway section...
IDEAL would be to have all these communities created by friends invited by real life friends, i dont know about you, i`ll say it from my own experience, if i would of done like that i would still surf trackers who appear and dissapear every day..without mentioning names...
And no one can convince me that there are trackers created and still running like this !

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Originally Posted by ca_aok

By the way, you'd be surprised how many people here have invites for the so-called "hard to join sites" and are simply sitting on them. Community participation and a well written request with reasons other than "packs" and "legendary community" quoted from four year old reviews might work better than you think.

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I`m sure they are and i`m sure time will bring anyone anywhere they will desire...or just read how great this tracker is, be patient and see one day that the tracker is closed and done ! without having any chance to experience it...

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Great reply from Cabalo, thank you...this is exactly how i see it !

And i didn`t created this thread for helping myself another "wrong" perception, the trackers im not member are not given away @ the giveaway section. I actually hope the trade thread will have new rules soon and will eliminate traders who are collecting accounts most probably to sell it somewhere else.
It would be like a chain reaction, less spammers, less low level invites given away for rep points, less bad users and that would just benefit members to give easier away a "hard to get in" invites...because overall it`s all about trackers that shouldn`t be valued as they are right now ! If WarCraft made kids lose their head and ruin their future, nowdays i see tracker hunting,collecting is more important !

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Originally Posted by killour

Exactly ! I was just waiting for someone else to say it !

Just by being a member of an invite forum is already a rule-breaker, same as giving away invites or even just by mentioning their names outside of their tracker ! The inclination towards traders is worst because of the "perception" created and if i look at the trade section i can see why !

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Uhh no it's not. Only the most narrowminded trackers will ban you for being a member here (I can only think of one off the top of my head). Several, however, might ban you for indiscriminately giving out invites and pretty much all of them will ban you for being a trader. Which is why requests trump giveaways as far as I'm concerned.

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Originally Posted by killour

i agree Burnsy, you don`t know exactly who you are dealing with, but it`s the same by inviting someone from the Giveaway section...
IDEAL would be to have all these communities created by friends invited by real life friends, i dont know about you, i`ll say it from my own experience, if i would of done like that i would still surf trackers who appear and dissapear every day..without mentioning names...
And no one can convince me that there are trackers created and still running like this !

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The difference is that people in the giveaway/requests section don't necessarily view invites and accounts as fodder to be traded away on a whim like idiots.

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Originally Posted by killour

I`m sure they are and i`m sure time will bring anyone anywhere they will desire...or just read how great this tracker is, be patient and see one day that the tracker is closed and done ! without having any chance to experience it...

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Half the time the trackers that are rarest and most hyped up suck the most ass. Just FYI. But I've personally given out so called "high level" invites to people here. The difference is that most people who make requests are either morons or traders. Put together some proper reasons and put some effort in to your request, and don't trade. It's as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by killour

Great reply from Cabalo, thank you...this is exactly how i see it !

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Cabalo's reply is somewhat jaded and hypocritical. It's very simple. If you break the rules at FST (for example, by selling invites), you get banned. If you break the rules at a tracker, you get banned. And guess what. Almost every single tracker disallows trading. So as far as I'm concerned you deserve what you get and can fuck off if you think otherwise, just as someone who breaks the rules here can do the same. That doesn't make them dictators (lmao), that makes them staff members.

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Originally Posted by killour

And i didn`t created this thread for helping myself another "wrong" perception, the trackers im not member are not given away @ the giveaway section. I actually hope the trade thread will have new rules soon and will eliminate traders who are collecting accounts most probably to sell it somewhere else.

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Never going to happen.

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Originally Posted by killour

It would be like a chain reaction, less spammers, less low level invites given away for rep points, less bad users and that would just benefit members to give easier away a "hard to get in" invites...because overall it`s all about trackers that shouldn`t be valued as they are right now ! If WarCraft made kids lose their head and ruin their future, nowdays i see tracker hunting,collecting is more important !

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I really don't even know what you're saying here, but hunting and collecting fall in with the traders, since half the reason people collect trackers is because they're "high level" on the idiotic WTAW rating scale, and this scale is perpetuated by traders based on how hard it is for those morons to get invites.

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Originally Posted by Cabalo

Basically, everything is against trackers rules.
After all, they are dictators, and young ones.

As I said before, I separate traders in two categories: the level hunters, and the needy ones.
The latter are those who traded like once or twice and actually kept their accounts because they were just looking to join that specific tracker and didn't bother go much further.
The former are the scum of bt, usually involved with selling. They are just playing by the rules trackers created, when some decided to make things harder to join, or when they decided to allow donations to buy invites.

It's the trackers fault in the first place, the rest is just the human nature working. And some specific countries with their mentalities.

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The first line is fatuous, not everything is against tracker rules and they have very different rules to one and other.
But then this is because the creators of the trackers created a 'private' torrent community.
The end of your line of conjecture since it is the trackers fault is that every tracker should simply become an open community with shitty speeds, random hit n runs and poor content or quality control.
Also the level hunters and collectors would have to pack up their bat & ball & get a new hobby and then where would everyone be. Not to mention the page impressions around here would take a dive.
The argument you are using is a slippery slope one, and the ultimate conclusion of that line of thinking would not benefit anyone.
Also another thought, people get interested in bt, get hooked, want (need?) the next tracker run around doing some really weird shit sometimes to get what they want, then as has been seen in one recent thread, get bored and toddle off.
So there is always a need for the trackers to have new members, a closed userbase is a stagnant one. They just since they are 'private' trackers want to select the members for their website. This is not only true of bit torrent trackers, there are people busting a nut out there to get into all manner of private forums/websites, but this is the essence of a 'private' rather than an 'open' tracker or forum.
If you want to point a finger at the trader economy, it was Sydney for creating the whole tracker rarity scale in the first place, the situation has gotten worse over time due to the popularity of the torrent protocol with more interest being generated in the rare ones.
But think of this, if they opened up the membership and went come one come all, they would no longer be rare, every tom dick & harry would be trolling through with crap speeds, the hit n run extravaganza that happens on open trackers, and in the end everyone would be complaining, well those trackers really suck, they have shitty speeds and there is all these hit n runs, it takes me a week to complete a file. I know we'll make a private tracker so these problems will happen less....
The benefit of the private trackers is that they are more secure than open ones, the speeds are much better, hit & running gets a one way ticket out and in the end there aren't that many rules that are needed to be a member and most of them are simply to protect that security and speed for the tracker.

[QUOTE=Artemis;3443357]

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Originally Posted by Cabalo

The first line is fatuous, not everything is against tracker rules and they have very different rules to one and other.
....
The benefit of the private trackers is that they are more secure than open ones, the speeds are much better, hit & running gets a one way ticket out and in the end there aren't that many rules that are needed to be a member and most of them are simply to protect that security and speed for the tracker.

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Fatuous? If there are what like what one million and forty -seven trackers now and " they have very different rules to one and other" then logic dictates that if everything isn't against tracker rules then it must damn well be close.
Btw that is the reason I always put on a suit and tie and change my underwear before logging in - just to be on the safe side.

Secondly and a bit more seriously I don't think whether a tracker is private or not necessarily effects the speeds( look to the Russian/Bulgarian ones for case in point) .OK initially unlikely the uploader is using a server but after a few people have downloaded the file , theoretically at least , shouldn't the sheer mass of a public tracker make up a bit for the lack of retention ?

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My question would be are all traders the same?

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When I see a trader I classify them into two groups:

-The trader that only trades for websites he needs, and intends to use.

-The trader that trades for levels and is just collecting sites which he doesn't intend to use.

I'm not involved in a life-long anti-trader campaign like some others around here, so I'm not going to sit here and bash every trader in a page long essay.
I wouldn't invite a trader to a website for obvious reasons that have been listed everywhere a million times... Just wanted to share my outlook on the types of traders.

.......On another subject....

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giveaway(trade)

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lol, are you inferring that giveaways are really a form of trading?

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Originally Posted by Tv Controls you

.......On another subject....

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giveaway(trade)

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lol, are you inferring that giveaways are really a form of trading?

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i see many invites given away for rep points or else, i could see it as a trade form ! depends on everyones perception !

i want it to open this subject to see this perception about traders, since it`s wrong imo and i strongly believe there are some "traders" who can be better members of a private tracker than any n00b you collect from the giveaway section !

"traders" who have real life not to spam day/night the forum so one day can they become members of a good private tracker!

And a hope of changing the current trade section since i hate threads like"i have this and that, pm me with offers", it`s obvious that because of users like them there is this perception most of you have ! got a reply of having no chance for change...My answer: i`ve seen FST giveaway/trade section in worst time then now and when no one believed in changes, it came !

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Originally Posted by killour

i see many invites given away for rep points or else, i could see it as a trade form ! depends on everyones perception !

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Not really. I've given people here invites, and I have no rep points, nor do I want them really.

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Originally Posted by killour

i want it to open this subject to see this perception about traders, since it`s wrong imo and i strongly believe there are some "traders" who can be better members of a private tracker than any n00b you collect from the giveaway section !

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Yeah, breaking rules before you even join makes you a great member :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by killour

"traders" who have real life not to spam day/night the forum so one day can they become members of a good private tracker!

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Common excuse, and a sad one at that. The truth is they can't be assed to post anything other than their crappy trade offers.

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Originally Posted by killour

And a hope of changing the current trade section since i hate threads like"i have this and that, pm me with offers", it`s obvious that because of users like them there is this perception most of you have ! got a reply of having no chance for change...My answer: i`ve seen FST giveaway/trade section in worst time then now and when no one believed in changes, it came !

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The perception will not change, period. Tracker staff will never accept trading, get over yourself.

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there are some "traders" who can be better members of a private tracker than any n00b you collect from the giveaway section !

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In my eyes I think they do have the potential to be a better member, but on the other side of the spectrum you have already broken a rule.
I am really torn on the matter you speak of, which is the source of my neutrality on the anti-trader campaign.

Once again I don't support trading, I'm just sharing my perception of a trader.
Anon-sbi is a prime example of a cheater that has turned out to be a star member of fst.

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Originally Posted by killour

i see many invites given away for rep points or else, i could see it as a trade form ! depends on everyones perception !

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On a sidenote, this does happen in invite forums. Give loads of invites and get as much rep points so that you're more "trusted" when making that big request or applying on a similarly-sized giveaway. Sad but true.

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Originally Posted by Tv Controls you

Once again I don't support trading, I'm just sharing my perception of a trader.

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That`s all that anyone really wants from any of us ! Their own thoughts about the topic!

Worst thing is when someone tries to talk on behalf of a tracker :whistling

Agree you are breaking the rule that you trade but you also break the rule when you give away invites over here or places like this or just by being member(make a thread on tracker forum that you are member here, if you are curious)...so isn`t funny how you play god and decide which is worst? Isn`t funny the perception created ?

After all everyone decides what he wants to do and that`s how it should be, hate tho` when someone tries to talk on behalf of someone else for what? to show up?

I might not created a good image about me by opening this topic, but i don`t care as long as i make some brains to role a little bit....

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Agree you are breaking the rule that you trade but you also break the rule when you give away invites over here or places like this or just by being member

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That depends on the tracker in question. There are a large number of trackers that allow public giveaways.

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Worst thing is when someone tries to talk on behalf of a tracker

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Who are you referring to?:bleh:

On a side note, If this is a topic you made in order to justify your trading thread that you withdrawed on then this is really sad.

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Originally Posted by anon-sbi

get as much rep points so that you're more "trusted"

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Some people are under the impression 5000+ posts makes you "trusted" too ... :whistling

I can't improve upon some of the relies in this thread, particularly Disme, Artemis and others. As usual, they provide a clear reply to your question. It's unfortunate but all to common that the OP wasn't looking for an answer but more someone to agree with him, or suggest there is value in his position; because since those posts he seems to be still justifying why some elements of trading or ok - or else he argues that it isn't as bad. Either side of the argument is foolish.. imho.

Why some tracker staff aren't too keen about giveaways was touched upon but not explained. To fill in that answer:

Giveaways are problematic because often times the only factor which dictates who gets the invite is some lame ratio proof which means absolutely nothing in terms of how it represents that person, how they are on site, etc. The invite may as well be sold on eBay when you consider just how much useful information the 'winner' of the giveaway actually gives out of him/herself. That in large part is why site staff are not to keen about giveaways.

In one of the replies (I think it was ca-aok) he suggested you'd be surprised just what can come from someone who just puts out a thought-out and honest post explaining why they want a particular invite to a particular community.

Again, regrettably, the OP seemed to not pay too much attention to that as a viable option. The OP may not agree, but to anyone reading this thread, all I can suggest is first off: Disregard the FST forum trolls that are just waiting to jump all over a new poster requesting an invite to some particular community. More often than not, the OP for a request thread post soon after gets a PM from a staffer or site member and if the person isn't some cheater/trader or train wreck waiting to happen he will get an invite. The biggest mistake n00bs make is that fall into the BS way of thinking that trading is fast, guaranteed and the easiest way to get into the sites you want.

'nuf said..//

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Originally Posted by Disme

Some people are under the impression 5000+ posts makes you "trusted" too ... :whistling

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I don't need anyone to trust me, if that's what you mean.

I'm here for the community. :yup:

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Originally Posted by killour

That`s all that anyone really wants from any of us ! Their own thoughts about the topic!

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No it's not, you're looking for sycophants to agree with your viewpoint.

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Originally Posted by killour

Worst thing is when someone tries to talk on behalf of a tracker :whistling

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What are you even talking about?

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Originally Posted by killour

Agree you are breaking the rule that you trade but you also break the rule when you give away invites over here or places like this or just by being member(make a thread on tracker forum that you are member here, if you are curious)...so isn`t funny how you play god and decide which is worst? Isn`t funny the perception created ?

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It's very simple as I explained before, perhaps you didn't bother reading some of the replies. You do not get banned from other trackers for being a member here, you get banned for trading here.

It's not that funny, it's more sad on your part that you're trying to justify trading. We're not talking about whether giveaways are a good idea, we're talking about how you want trackers to see trading as anything but idiotic.

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Originally Posted by killour

After all everyone decides what he wants to do and that`s how it should be, hate tho` when someone tries to talk on behalf of someone else for what? to show up?

I might not created a good image about me by opening this topic, but i don`t care as long as i make some brains to role a little bit....

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Yes, we'd appreciate it if you make some brains as I have no idea what you're trying to convey with those two statements.

Sure, everyone decides what to do. When you decide to do the wrong thing, you get punished. It's pretty simple.

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Originally Posted by killour

After all everyone decides what he wants to do and that`s how it should be, hate tho` when someone tries to talk on behalf of someone else for what? to show up?

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i think he is trying to say that people are talking in the name of a whole tracker only to show haw great they can be or something

Why is so hard to post your own ideas,thoughts ?

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Originally Posted by killour

Expecting lots of "attacks", but would love to see replies with sense !

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(1st post is unedited !)
I don`t need anyone to agree with me or earn sympathy or whatever !
If that would of been my desire why would i open such topic like this one?

When someone starts to attack a person instead of expressing their own thoughts... that makes me sick!

I see most of my replies edited and bashed like i would be the negative person around here just because some of my thoughts are different that your brain was fed ?
I respect all of you who expressed and will express in continue your ideas without "killing" each other ! (why is this so hard sometime?)
I see some part of my replies unedited, i don`t wonder why , i just thank you for that! :) (few will understand why i wrote this)

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Originally Posted by TraLaLa

i think he is trying to say that people are talking in the name of a whole tracker only to show haw great they can be or something

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the only ones who didn`t understood are those who didn`t want to understand ! no worries !

ca_aok: i have "bothered" to read all your replies,don`t worry, you are repeating yourself in every post...please dont make another reply repeating yourself again...we all know your perception about the topic(and me) ... i personally respect it ! it`s your thought and i will never try to change that !

I really hope to see more replies and thoughts from more FST members regarding the topic and leave me out of it, i didn`t made this for myself,if i look a danger for some of you...you can be calm because you will never ever see me requesting any invite to any tracker!!!seriously ... no worries!

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Originally Posted by killour

Worst thing is when someone tries to talk on behalf of a tracker

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There are quite a few staff members here (and at least one has replied in this thread) who when they reply to questions like this,the reply is from the trackers point of view.