Some Questions About Trackers
Why are there so many scene trackers? And why are so many of them "rare"? What differentiates them, if all they carry is scene?
Is it the community? I find this hard to believe - the same people who are attracted to one scene tracker will be attracted to another. They all look the same, anyhow. Also, rarity of tracker will maybe weed out a few people who legitimately can't seed, but I don't believe that rarity is any barrier to douchebags, cheaters, and
Also, can I question the quality of the scene? I used to believe in scene torrents back when I used to use public trackers for my movies and the alternative was really shitty rips, but now I almost always choose a non-scene movie over scene. In house encodes for both PtP and PTN are much better quality (I probably would include Goem, KG, SDBits, HDBits, CN - but I am a member at none of these sites).
As for TV, the other major thing that scene trackers cover - what is the advantage of downloading off a scene tracker vs. a site like TvT or BTN? Is it speed? I'm already capping at both of those sites. Is it pretimes? Seriously, does anyone believe in pretimes anymore? Although it might be a slight inconvenience to watch the TV show an hour later than you had expected, is this really a reason to join yet another tracker?
Scene encodes of music are almost always inferior to any rip done by someone who knows anything.
Apps/Games - Ok, non-scene almost never releases apps, but they do release Games (at least on BCG). This is maybe the only place where I find scene to be more comfortable than non-scene, although this is probably left-over bias from my stupid days. Also, I think scening apps is one of the most ridiculous things. Like I really needed version 1.003568 of SQL Database ExploderX the minute it hit the eMarket.
So far, I have found nothing that would encourage me to join yet another scene tracker. In addition to those I have listed, how, in any way, is SCC/SeX/GFT/SBT/InsertSceneTrackerHere better than a site like IPT (considering I don't care about download speed or pretimes)?
Nobody has to answer - I guess these are rhetorical questions I pose while I stumble across torrent-land.
P.S. - Is TL superior or rarer than IPT? Please note that I'm making a distinction between the two. If it's just rarer, then I won't look for an invite, but if people think it's superior in any way (I guess my criterion for superiority would be massive scene+NON-SCENE selection along with retention), then I might have to post up for an invite.
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anarkial
Why are there so many scene trackers? And why are so many of them "rare"? What differentiates them, if all they carry is scene?
Is it the community? I find this hard to believe - the same people who are attracted to one scene tracker will be attracted to another. They all look the same, anyhow. Also, rarity of tracker will maybe weed out a few people who legitimately can't seed, but I don't believe that rarity is any barrier to douchebags, cheaters, and
It's all the same content. Differences are in pre-time, swarm speed, and the members present. Really, you only need one. If you wanted overall speed, SCC would be your best bet, lots of people prefer ratioless because you don't have to worry about seeding much though. I understand GFT is open signups right now, you could try that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anarkial
Also, can I question the quality of the scene? I used to believe in scene torrents back when I used to use public trackers for my movies and the alternative was really shitty rips, but now I almost always choose a non-scene movie over scene. In house encodes for both PtP and PTN are much better quality (I probably would include Goem, KG, SDBits, HDBits, CN - but I am a member at none of these sites).
Scene quality is crappy, but at least it's fairly consistent. P2P rips are better if they're done by people who know what they're doing, however there are plenty of aXXo-esque P2P groups out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anarkial
As for TV, the other major thing that scene trackers cover - what is the advantage of downloading off a scene tracker vs. a site like TvT or BTN? Is it speed? I'm already capping at both of those sites. Is it pretimes? Seriously, does anyone believe in pretimes anymore? Although it might be a slight inconvenience to watch the TV show an hour later than you had expected, is this really a reason to join yet another tracker?
Pretimes, and rared versus unrared. Also TV trackers generally have a lot more features tailored towards TV... series pages, daily schedules, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anarkial
Scene encodes of music are almost always inferior to any rip done by someone who knows anything.
Yep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anarkial
Apps/Games - Ok, non-scene almost never releases apps, but they do release Games (at least on BCG). This is maybe the only place where I find scene to be more comfortable than non-scene, although this is probably left-over bias from my stupid days. Also, I think scening apps is one of the most ridiculous things. Like I really needed version 1.003568 of SQL Database ExploderX the minute it hit the eMarket.
I usually prefer scene stuff here as well since it's *usually* more trustworthy (but not always, you still need to be careful).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anarkial
So far, I have found nothing that would encourage me to join yet another scene tracker. In addition to those I have listed, how, in any way, is SCC/SeX/GFT/SBT/InsertSceneTrackerHere better than a site like IPT (considering I don't care about download speed or pretimes)?
They aren't. Don't tell the traders that though.
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anarkial
how, in any way, is SCC/SeX/GFT/SBT/InsertSceneTrackerHere better than a site like IPT (considering I don't care about download speed or pretimes)?
what are the standards of being good, great, poor if download speeds arent considered? secondly SCC is by far the best 0day tracker out there not by that fact that its hard to get in but considering its scene content, Download Speeds, Freeleech packs (which actually help people like me without seedboxes to maintain a healthy ratio) and pretimes is unarguably the best of all
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
Whatcdfan:
Spoiler:
Show
Quote:
Originally Posted by
whatcdfan
what are the standards of being good, great, poor if download speeds arent considered?
Content, you twat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
whatcdfan
secondly SCC is by far the best 0day tracker out there not by that fact that its hard to get in but considering its scene content, Download Speeds, Freeleech packs (which actually help people like me without seedboxes to maintain a healthy ratio) and pretimes is unarguably the best of all
The point at hand is
why you should care about any of those things, rather than at any other scene site. I'm not surprised the point of the thread flew over your head, though.
On-topic:
Matter of the fact is, this one chalks up to personal preference. Sure, some methods of measuring a site's quality are inane, but it remains to be a fact that not all people find it pointless. That alone is a good thing for every site, as every site will find a member base that "clicks in" with itself. However, over to your point of over-saturation of scene trackers, I recently asked a friend why he decided to start up a tracker, and his answer was "I wanted to provide something nice for people." Now I respect this friend a fair bit, so I won't name his site, but it stands to reason that he could have invested his time and money into providing food and shelter from the homeless. The difference is, with bittorrent comes a source of income, and there's no shortage of influx of users looking to get their content fix off of off-scene sites. There really is no difference between IPT and Demonoid, and one step further down, TPB even has the most content. With the kinds of questions you're asking, it's only a matter of time before you hit a dead end and realize you have no business grabbing content in private websites at all. So to be honest, the simplest version of the answer to all your questions is: Find out what you're looking for. Find someplace you click in/with well.
As honest as an answer gets, is that it's usually the fact that it's the cool thing to do, that you feel a sense of elitism, that you tend to trust your files a bit more, and that those sites are properly organized. Take for example BTN's series search, or PTN's movie grouping; features that are helpful but you can't really make the most use of them elsewhere. That, and monkey sees, therefore monkey does. You see a lot of "like-minded" individuals doing something, and especially if you associate with them, you will do the same. In this case those individuals are pirates, that are interested in having a deeper experience with the platform/protocol than they would get elsewhere (refer to the second sentence of this paragraph).
Over to why you should pick scene over p2p; you shouldn't. And you shouldn't also care about having preferences period. At the end of the day, a movie, a song and a game all lose no meaning or value depending on the source you get them from. If you're after content solely, then you shouldn't care who provides it to you, as long as you get them at the times you go out looking for them. Period. Regardless if that timing you oh-so-need is midnight the day a game released, or a fortnight later when guides have been published. Also, I'm sorry that people find pretimes meaningless, but to a lot of people they are not. The thrill of the chase, of trying and succeeding to become the best, is the same thrill you'd get from racing someone with your shopping cart to the express aisle at a grocery store, or burning a yellow light when you could have easily stopped, or countless other examples. We intrinsically need to be first, we need to satisfy our sense of individuality, and pretimes are just a way to channel that necessity. If that's not your cup of tea, then take entertainment out of your life until the laws are restructured and copyright laws only hold for a few years past release of the media. You won't, because you still want that file in what is, to you, a reasonable time period after its release. Then dare I say, it's unreasonable to judge someone else for having less of an attention span or more of a drive to get that media before you.
I'm not attacking you. I'm simply giving you more questions to help you get to more concrete answers. Last thing you'd want is reaching an answer that deep down you know is not convincing to your own self.
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
IPT has a lot of stuff but I like to use sites that have better organization so I search elsewhere first. why should there be more than one scene tracker? because trackers get shutdown and the content is relatively easy to get (pay2leech at the least). I find redundancy to be a sort of defense in this case. Losing say GFT would not be as devastating to filesharing as losing what.cd for example.
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
@asshunter damn nuttshunter shit ballshunter ringhunter: (hay i got it right, wait did i?)
Anyways why is this anger for? Aby told u ass drilling is blood spilling business but u dont seem to learn ur lessons
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anarkial
What differentiates them, if all they carry is scene?
it was already said content, assuming that scene content is identical on all the trackers unless some tracker indexes ur mothers midnight disgraces broad-daylight adventures that too in HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ringhunter
The point at hand is why you should care about any of those things, rather than at any other scene site. I'm not surprised the point of the thread flew over your head, though.
take some time off of tick sucking and read before u start spilling shit
EDIT: you can also opt to not to reply back since i already know what a pigs goin to drink after he eats shit
hay just out of curiosity were u born from azzhole since a synonym for feminine vagina is a term of insult for u.
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anarkial
Why are there so many scene trackers? And why are so many of them "rare"? What differentiates them, if all they carry is scene?
Because they tend to be created by very young people with , I'm assuming, poor self- esteem who see it as a way to attempt to gain some respect/notoriety . Still better than another Columbine I guess.
As for TL and IPT ,IPT tends to be easier to maintain a ratio on - easier than just about any place outside of TVT maybe , but I'm told TL has better retention.
I really can't testify to to that since I've found things still active on IPT that I haven't on TL and vise versa.I think it's totally dependent on what you are looking for.
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IdolEyes787
Because they tend to be created by very young people with , I'm assuming, poor self- esteem who see it as a way to attempt to gain some respect/notoriety . Still better than another Columbine I guess.
i couldn't have said it better myself.
ringhunter: tl;dr :no:
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
The main draw of any site is the amount of content on the site, the number of regular uploads, and the download speed provided.
There are so many scene trackers because scene trackers basically ensure all 3 of those conditions. Autouploaders can provide hundreds of new torrents per day, and are hosted on 100Mbit or 1Gbit servers which means great download speeds for users.
With the cost of servers as they are now (thanks in large part to OVH), autouploaders can be run rather cheaply, and fast pay2leech FTP sources can be had relatively cheaply today compared to a year ago or more ago.
All this means is new sites go for the easy target -- scene uploads -- since it is easier to get an autouploader going on a scene tracker than to spend the time recruiting uploaders, rippers, encoders for your niche site.
Only problem becomes that users are stuck with 10, 20, 50 choices of trackers that all upload the same thing. The result? Most newer trackers get a burst of interest when first opening, then quickly head towards the grave due to donation issues unless the staff is prepared to invest heavily in the site out of their own pocket. Older trackers suffer from inactivity as users are drawn away from them to the dozens of new alternatives, while at the same time they refuse to open invites or signups to boost activity as they fear harming their elitist reputation.
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cinephilia
ringhunter: tl;dr :no:
i couldn't have said it better myself.
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
1000possibleclaws
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cinephilia
ringhunter: tl;dr :no:
i couldn't have said it better myself.
I see what you did there. :shifty:
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
You guys are awesome. Sorry I haven't been responding to this in a while, just mulling through it.
I found a site with better retention than IPT: Google.com. Using google, I can find torrents, DDL links, emule links (rarely) to shit I haven't even STARTED looking for yet!
Maybe the community draw is something that many private trackers have that most links google finds doesn't. But I find this is mostly true only for niche sites, like movies, or music, or gay porn, etc. I mean seriously, what can bring the members of a scene tracker together? Only two things, porn and computers, but you can find that anywhere (except at niche trackers).
So I'm still left as confused as before, but I know a few more things now.
Ringhunter, you brought up some valid points, let me go through them.
Pretimes = individuality? As much as I respect your opinions, I find it hard to click with that one. I can see the race, the competition as a need for pretimes, but then what makes the users boast over their site's pretimes? It's not like they released the stuff - it's just like a collective pride (in something I still don't think should be counted in milliseconds). But to give you a sense of my bias, I think the Olympics are foolish.
Your second paragraph I agree almost wholly with, and I'll ashamedly admit the elitism. How can I not? There's an implicit knowledge gap between those that know about the site and those that don't. I could go on and on about how P2P attacks consumerism, promotes free speech, but that's really BS. By agreeing to use the materials that P2P "cracks" for us, we engage entirely in the same consumerism that we blast.
IdolEyez- You've explained that pretty succinctly, and correctly, by my standards. chris went into more detail, so thanks for that too.
To continue the discussion, let me come with a few more questions, perhaps unanswerable:
It seems that scene-trackers cater to a specific segment of the BT community, mostly 14 year-olds with easy access to their mum's wallets. So what drives them? I refuse to believe that the content of any scene tracker is close to interesting - I'll have a much better time trolling the Top 100 list in TPB, or looking through all the weird shit that pops up on Demonoid. Is there an elitism that just comes with knowing that almighty word "scene"? This applies to much of the private BT world as well, but there's something about scene-trackers and their content-exclusivity that I can't grasp.
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
I use private trackers for two main reasons:
1. They are safer for me. All my friends who use public sites have received letters for their actions. I have received none and grab a hell of a lot more then they do.
2. They are free. This point is twords the newsgroup alternatives out there. If newsgroups were free (and just as fast as the paid ones) I'd just as easily use those instead.
It has nothing to do with elitism or community. Although its sometimes nice to have a forum to post to other then fst with a group of people who have some similar interests.
Edit: content plays a big role for Niche sites though. You can't match up google (or newsgroups) to What.cd or Bitmetv for example.
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
1. I can't deny the "safe" aspect, but I also don't agree with it. More about this later.
2. I've never used used newsgroups, so it wouldn't be in my place to say anything about them.
Also, notice that my post is aimed more at "scene" trackers than anything else. I've found elitism to be a major facet of most of these trackers. And for the community aspect, I've explained why community is important in niche sites, rather, it's inherent. You're downloading/uploading to/from a group of people who apparently share your interests, and that's the beginnings of an online community. I was questioning the presence of a community in scene trackers, and how they manage to stay coherent.
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anarkial
Pretimes = individuality? As much as I respect your opinions, I find it hard to click with that one. I can see the race, the competition as a need for pretimes, but then what makes the users boast over their site's pretimes? It's not like they released the stuff - it's just like a collective pride (in something I still don't think should be counted in milliseconds). But to give you a sense of my bias, I think the Olympics are foolish.
I'm willing to accept that people on the "outside" will never see this one through my eyes. I used to indulge in such inane behavior not too long ago (scene releasing), so for me, the thrill of it all still overpowers my opinions about it. If you're biased, then I'm ten times moreso. However, as I grew older and (hopefully) saner, I started seeing things through a different light and while I haven't completely disposed of that part of me that still finds interest in the balance between the quality and quantity of releases, I readily understand why people see no more to it than a meaningless gimmick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anarkial
I found a site with better retention than IPT: Google.com. Using google, I can find torrents, DDL links, emule links (rarely) to shit I haven't even STARTED looking for yet!
Maybe the community draw is something that many private trackers have that most links google finds doesn't. But I find this is mostly true only for niche sites, like movies, or music, or gay porn, etc. I mean seriously, what can bring the members of a scene tracker together? Only two things, porn and computers, but you can find that anywhere (except at niche trackers).
To continue the discussion, let me come with a few more questions, perhaps unanswerable:
It seems that scene-trackers cater to a specific segment of the BT community, mostly 14 year-olds with easy access to their mum's wallets. So what drives them? I refuse to believe that the content of any scene tracker is close to interesting - I'll have a much better time trolling the Top 100 list in TPB, or looking through all the weird shit that pops up on Demonoid. Is there an elitism that just comes with knowing that almighty word "scene"? This applies to much of the private BT world as well, but there's something about scene-trackers and their content-exclusivity that I can't grasp.
Be careful with the security issues. More often than not, public trackers will get you in trouble eventually (I've been using kickasstorrents a lot recently, since I have no adequate movie piracy outlet). As for the community: To each his own, to be honest. I enjoy knowledgeable communities moreso than anything else. A community where intelligent discussion isn't limited to people's idiotic opinions, but rather a collective of those idiotic opinions and a thought provoking reference to a book or thinker is usually a big draw for me. A couple of trackers do that for me, but more than that, other communities that are more topic centric fulfill that rather well. I've taken a particular liking to a specific blog and its discussions.
As for your last question: I'd assume so, although, I only really ever grab what I want/need (and before someone mentions how I don't need anything, yes, I do, and I'll gladly prove that so). So, in light of the options one has when looking up content, be it TV shows, movies or games (regardless of the platform) scene releases have the upper hand. Which is why there's a draw to them. It'd be naive to assume that everyone sees this the same way I do, otherwise everyone would be content with just one scene tracker, and everyone would be content with having a similar downloaded amount as to myself (I'm at around the 2TB mark total across all my trackers), which people obviously don't. That, and other factors filter into the equation. I know people absolutely obsessed with collecting, be it trackers, or the content hosted on them. Just look at the thread on SCC where people name drop the exact kind of material they collect (I remember a member at ScT who had over 30-40+ TB's collected of every possible television series, which would have been impossible for him to collect had he not had access to scene trackers). And, yet again, it goes without saying, that some people are tools that think the more options they are privy to, the more it makes them 1337 or capable of getting a "rare" file.
Not an empirical answer, to be honest, more again the sort that points to "Oh well, this is my answer, I'm sure you'll find a more suitable/appropriate one for yourself."
Re: Some Questions About Trackers
Ok, I see where you're coming from now. I used to be a part of a cracking group that had a fling with the scene, but found the competition counterproductive.
As for security - although I'm becoming dumber about it now, I still have a lot more know-how than the average user. I keep away from fake torrents, look for specific torrents, and generally avoid new movies/music. I have PTP and PTN (thanks to Darth Vader), but they usually don't carry the specific types of encodes that I look for (~2 GB 720p).
I also like your stance regarding community. I find the stupidity of democracy much more comfortable and enlightening than the murmurings of elite cabals. No sarcasm.
I'll take the plunge - why do you need it, rather than want it? And same here, I never get shit for the sake of a buffer/for the sake of getting it. And I guess I underestimated the draw of collectionism, something that I can completely sympathize with. I download albums, never singles. If there's a box set, I'll jump on that rather than the individual movies. Seasons > episodes. But still I find this stupid. I realize myself that I really couldn't care for all the other songs on Mack Daddy besides Baby Got Back. I hate the last two Matrixes. So maybe I'm asking this to find opinions that will provoke me enough to stop myself from indulging in this careless behavior. Therefore I can't blast guys who use scene trackers to get everything under the sun and moon, without being hypocritical.
I don't give two shits about empiricism. Empiricism was invented by old rich white men dressed in silly clothes to "prove" things to those without the resources to do the same (sorry if you're old rich or white, but you don't have an excuse if you dress in silly clothes). But I really do appreciate honest, thoughtful answers to such convoluted posts such as mine. And don't worry - I don't take anything you say for granted. I'm still in a discovery stage myself, and I'm still a skeptic of everything. But I appreciate it all the same.
