How good are "Rarity" and "exclusivity" for a tracker

hello folks,
I have noticed that some trackers once reached certain no of users, limit the opportunities for the new members to make their way in, i have always thought the increase in the no of members will result in the increased peer activity, more donations, more content (In some cases) and everything more that ends as good at the end of the day for a tracker.This post of bijoy forced me to talk

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Originally Posted by bijoy

that's the funny part of bittorrent trackers in recent times. 2 words: exclusive & never is crushing the bt.
Trackers should come over these 2 words if they wanna do something better, rather than being defined as super secret paraniod tracker.
Leave out hdbits, no onther tracker don't have any practical need for complete lockdown.

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There are trackers like TL and IPT that are continuously searching for new members and what.cd which is always open for deserving candidates (Probably because it has no "content wise" competition) on the other hand there are trackers like hdbits.org and SCC which are becoming more and more difficult to get in with every new day.
So the obvious question is, why some trackers limit themselves to become really rare?

server cant handle too many connection?
they want to run in SSL?
idk..want to see some other reason too

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Originally Posted by ScottK

server cant handle too many connection?
they want to run in SSL?
idk..want to see some other reason too

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yup there has to be more reasons, hardware limitations solely cant restrict a tracker from expanding its userbase

i like them both :)
sometimes small is better :)

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Originally Posted by whatcdfan

hello folks,
I have noticed that some trackers once reached certain no of users, limit the opportunities for the new members to make their way in, i have always thought the increase in the no of members will result in the increased peer activity, more donations, more content (In some cases) and everything more that ends as good at the end of the day for a tracker.This post of bijoy forced me to talk

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Originally Posted by bijoy

that's the funny part of bittorrent trackers in recent times. 2 words: exclusive & never is crushing the bt.
Trackers should come over these 2 words if they wanna do something better, rather than being defined as super secret paraniod tracker.
Leave out hdbits, no onther tracker don't have any practical need for complete lockdown.

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There are trackers like TL and IPT that are continuously searching for new members and what.cd which is always open for deserving candidates (Probably because it has no "content wise" competition) on the other hand there are trackers like hdbits.org and SCC which are becoming more and more difficult to get in with every new day.
So the obvious question is, why some trackers limit themselves to become really rare?

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Resources are, almost always, much slimmer for small trackers. To deal with that, they must encourage a greater sense of value and safety, so as to not have to go through the legal battles. Those megatrackers have much more of a support pool to draw from both legally and financially, so they have more practical ability to actually deal with problems, rather than just scrubbing the site server and running for your life, which is the only real option for most small trackers.

Yes, it's a "sales" tactic, but it's a necessary one. If you really want to see why sites got privatized, try torrenting with DHT exclusively, just make sure you do it with every possible means of hiding your ip. ;) (oh, and don't forget to run a virus scan on every single file you dl, and make you sure you don't dl any fakes, and make sure those 400 other leechers haven't been sitting at 43% for 6 months, and...) It's really just carry over from the scene's approach to security, if I had to put my finger on it.

The way I see things, staff does the limitation simply because they feel this way. In many cases, when questioned they'd drivel about ,security´; however if you really were into security there are well-known doubts about BT being the right method to begin with.. In fact, also boats clubs etc. keep a limited userbase ("exclusivity") when they do not have to do this to hide from the law.

I guess basically staff thinks they get the profits from running the site (respect, control over members, getting ass kissed etc.) without taking unneeded risks (and getting problems). Most private site staffers are no Julian Assange, they don't care about free information and stuff whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Intr4ns1t

If you really want to see why sites got privatized

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Downloads that max out connections, Encodes that do not make ears and eyes bleed, Warez that do not supply malwares along ETC

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Originally Posted by Sonnentier

I guess basically staff thinks they get the profits from running the site (respect, control over members, getting ass kissed etc.) without taking unneeded risks (and getting problems). Most private site staffers are no Julian Assange, they don't care about free information and stuff whatsoever.

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You got a point mate

I was thinking about starting a thread about this matter too, but now I can see you already started one.. ;)

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Originally Posted by ScottK

server cant handle too many connection?
they want to run in SSL?
idk..want to see some other reason too

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SSl is just another method of protection besically from ISP of userbase, and have nothing to do with real security of any site.
And if you look a bit more carefully, then you can see 2 most popular 0day trackers, TL & IPT don't have any ssl at all.

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Originally Posted by Intr4ns1t

Resources are, almost always, much slimmer for small trackers. To deal with that, they must encourage a greater sense of value and safety, so as to not have to go through the legal battles. Those megatrackers have much more of a support pool to draw from both legally and financially, so they have more practical ability to actually deal with problems, rather than just scrubbing the site server and running for your life, which is the only real option for most small trackers.

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That's a big point, but no tracker staff never say this point although it is a very much real one, rather they emphasise on another word Community. I already said one thing saveral times: "Want to build a community? Then install a forum software in the server & choose a good topic for conversation & discussion. No need to open a bt site for the purpose of making a community."
Although it sounds really bad, but it is true, that the word community do not exist in bt. Some people gather in one place to collect some items, and they do it by seeding & leeching. This is not a community.
If anybody call trolling & sucking,licking others ass (hope I don't cross the line here) in irc, as a sign of community, then I'll say that person nothing but stupid. :P

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Yes, it's a "sales" tactic, but it's a necessary one.

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Upto some point it is ok. There are many good users who are waiting to get in many trackers and if they do get in have the potential inside them to be a great user. So, there should be some easy way for them to get in..
'salse' -> this word tend to create some confusion, specially it did that recently. Refer to imagine's own tracker thread to see what this little word can do to any tracker. :P You will have fun there too. :D

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If you really want to see why sites got privatized, try torrenting with DHT exclusively, just make sure you do it with every possible means of hiding your ip. ;) (oh, and don't forget to run a virus scan on every single file you dl, and make you sure you don't dl any fakes, and make sure those 400 other leechers haven't been sitting at 43% for 6 months, and...) It's really just carry over from the scene's approach to security, if I had to put my finger on it.

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That's why private trackers gain popularity now-a-days.

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Originally Posted by Sonnentier

The way I see things, staff does the limitation simply because they feel this way.

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Problem starts when those 'staffs' are kids.

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I guess basically staff thinks they get the profits from running the site (respect, control over members, getting ass kissed etc.) without taking unneeded risks (and getting problems). Most private site staffers are no Julian Assange, they don't care about free information and stuff whatsoever.

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if they can think like you then we don't need to discuss this point now. :P

I think trackers should be more open to new users, resource limitations permitting, during their infancy. A lot of trackers set arbitrary caps such as "we'll close at 5,000 new users then just hand out invites." This is silly. Most signups at a new tracker are experienced users. They already have several trackers and hear about a new one, sign up to check it out. Many, if not most, of these users will never actually use the tracker. Instead, a month or two from the opening the user limit will be reached and the account will sit dormant until it is pruned. Maybe 10-20% of the original signups will stick around and use the tracker at least minimally. Now you have a small active userbase with a handful of invites who probably already informed their friends of open signups anyway and whose invitees are just as likely not to be bothered being part of a small new site.

When you look at trackers at their peak, i.e. when the tracker is not only well established in activity and content, but the demand for accounts exceeds the supply of slots, the number of pruned/banned users it took to get there is tremendous. I've looked at a few sites by comparing the most recent or very recent user's user id # and comparing that to the total number of active users (accounting at times for gaps in the way sites quantified user id #s e.g. FTN). An obvious trend appears. Maybe 10% or slightly more of the total number of users who ever had an account still have an active account. And of course not everyone uses that account with true regularity. Keep in mind, these are the most active trackers at their apex.

Take a look for yourself on your favorite trackers. I'm sure you'll see that to build a community it takes a lot of fresh blood coming in for months and years, whether at a trickle by chance (slowly built through open signups and liberal invites) or by force (create a buzz and maintain exclusivity). No new site has survived on the exclusivity model. I can name a handful that tried this and failed. You cannot establish exclusivity and a reputation for "greatness" overnight. Those that are still around were opened 3-4 years ago, at least.

As a quick counterpoint to the generic security argument, there are quite a few very large and open "private" trackers and some tremendous public trackers. How often are people even threatened with lawsuits or sued? How often are people actually busted by the police? Almost never. Millions of users and maybe a handful are subjected to stress over downloading. Security in small numbers is just an argument crafted by those who prefer smaller trackers for whatever personal reason as a justification for keeping it small. I'm fine if you want to keep the club to a few thousand and enjoy some admittedly greater sense of security, but I think there is a real middle ground between 1337x or Demonoid and CN or ITS. Let's be reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Sonnentier

I guess basically staff thinks they get the profits from running the site (respect, control over members, getting ass kissed etc.) without taking unneeded risks (and getting problems). Most private site staffers are no Julian Assange, they don't care about free information and stuff whatsoever.

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Purely off topic, but most accounts tend to describe said Julian Assange as exactly what you stated in the bolded part of this quote.

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Originally Posted by bijoy

SSl is just another method of protection besically from ISP of userbase, and have nothing to do with real security of any site.
And if you look a bit more carefully, then you can see 2 most popular 0day trackers, TL & IPT don't have any ssl at all.

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i didnt talk about security here. but about original topic. im responding to 1st post.
TL & IPT dont have any ssl, so because of that they have average 100k userbase? or you can take What.CD too?
unlike FtN which using ssl, i doubt they can do that if they have 100k userbase?
idk about this server load or stuff, but i think fundamental is, more server = more money

I'm sure most sites don't close to become more rare. They close for other reasons. The two easiest to list are security and resources. There are probably other reasons too, but not having run a tracker, I'm not sure what they would be.

Some of the exclusive trackers are very happy as they are.Their community is nice and active, they just don't want to risk it by allowing new people in. They simply don't care about member count or the cash, they are just happy as they are.

Interesting topic this one and I guess there are many proper answers to the question as I guess most trackers have their own reasons for shutting the doors and I would think the exclusive trackers do not realy want to be exclusive and talked about they sooner just be getting on with what they do for the members they have.
There are many closed trackers that are very rarely mentioned on here at all and I expect they are more pleased about than the ones that people are begging to get in are about been chatted about every where.
There also seems to be a new tracker of one sort opening up every day and all trying to get new members some make it and become succesful at maintain an active user base with the sorts of people that they want as members other fade away or their is a squabble between them and this then splits in to 2 or more trackerss trying to get most the users that where origionally with the 1st tracker.
I have not been about for the last 12 months due to personal issues and have had my accounts pruned at the so called exclusive hard to get trackers which to be fair is not some thing I am overly worried about, yes it would be nice to be back in them but there are other trackers about that fit my needs :)

There is a post about communities in trackers and some of the smaller trackers I find have this better than likes of ipt and tl the people on them know one another a lot better and become real friends in life rather than just a name in a forum. In the past. Several years ago I ran chat rooms and some of the smaller torrent sites with shout box's do tend to have that feel with the advantage of the torrents to get. Having also been involved with DC++ in the past I know find that these trackers can be a great way to get to know people as real friends. So saying that a site is better for being exclusive and closed to keep the great community together to me is a load of :shit: as there are many trackers about where you can find what you are looking for in a community than using one the the elite/exclusive trackers

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Originally Posted by Duckater

There is a post about communities in trackers and some of the smaller trackers I find have this better than likes of ipt and tl the people on them know one another a lot better and become real friends in life rather than just a name in a forum. In the past. Several years ago I ran chat rooms and some of the smaller torrent sites with shout box's do tend to have that feel with the advantage of the torrents to get. Having also been involved with DC++ in the past I know find that these trackers can be a great way to get to know people as real friends. So saying that a site is better for being exclusive and closed to keep the great community together to me is a load of :shit: as there are many trackers about where you can find what you are looking for in a community than using one the the elite/exclusive trackers

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If you like a good shoutbox I think I know a tracker that might be a good fit for you. It's a small tracker but you couldn't tell that from all the people chatting there. Pm me if your interested

Maybe that its teh fact that when they have less members, theres less risk of legal trouble

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Originally Posted by Vorx

Maybe that its teh fact that when they have less members, theres less risk of legal trouble

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Its the content, not the number of members that is the main cause of trouble for trackers..
You seem to missed that :P

Its probably a bit of both.

If the powers that be are in them, then

A small tracker with a new release before pre date (ripped by a member not so much scene) then they could be in trouble.
but
a small tracker that only gets a handful of snatches on torrents, because they havnt got many members = probably safe (or safer anyway) even if they have 10,000 torrents.

a big tracker that gets a lot of snatches on each torrent, in the 1000`s is probably a target even if they dont get stuff uploaded before pre from their members.

most of the time trackers get busted because of the pre aspect, elitetorrents for star wars workprint, oink for the 11 or 12 pre release albums that were uploaded (or at least thats the main reason if not the only reason that was giving at the time), but then you have TPB just for the amount of peers/snatches, i havnt used it in years but i bet they dont get that many releases before pre, and then mininova for just linking to copyrighted material (torrents, they had their own tracker but 99.9% of the torrents were from other sites), but again number of peers on those torrents is what brought them to their knees.

I personally dont really see the point of a small tracker, and bringing comminity into it is a bit wrong if you ask me, you still just get the usual 20-30 members posting in the forums, same as uploading content and talking in IRC (i am not talking idling) it just seems like there is more because there are less members. But its up to the staff of that tracker what they want out of it, if they dont want loads in then tough on you if you are not in, I personally dont think its got anything to do with exclusivity or security, tbh it can work against the smaller trackers.

I dont know the whole story, and if i am talking bollocks i apologise now, but i believe a member of UK-T was arrested for selling DVDs, so they closed the site because of it (I may just have dreamt that though so its not 100% gospel), if a member of TL/IPT gets arrested for that, the staff never even hear about it, and if they did, probably wouldnt care anyway.

anyway will leave it there been up all night playing GT5 (should have been the Ashes but we won :) ) and knackered.

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Originally Posted by stoi

I personally dont really see the point of a small tracker, and bringing comminity into it is a bit wrong if you ask me, you still just get the usual 20-30 members posting in the forums, same as uploading content and talking in IRC (i am not talking idling) it just seems like there is more because there are less members.

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Unfortunately I've come to the realization that is very true . People that believe in the existence of true "community " at any tracker as deluding themselves .The fact that they feature more prominently at smaller tracker is simply a matter of math.
Actually the smaller sites are just as if not more so frustrating than the bigger ones since the onus is supposedly more on each member to actively contribute and except for ,as Stoi said , the same 20-30 (usually everyplace :mellow:) are the only ones to . That gets old very, fast , especially when most never had anything interesting to say in the first place.
After a while I basically give up in frustration as I'm sure many other people do as well.
My advice join sites for their content , if you happen to find "friends" there look at it as simply a bonus and consider yourself very, very fortunate .