Highwinds and their piss-poor completion

I've not used Highwinds as my primary usenet provider in close to two years, but in trying out newcster's NewsgroupDirect trial, I discovered a lot of incomplete posts in their US server (I did not try the EU server).

Everything I downloaded was peppered with missing articles. Whether at 600 days, 700 days, 800 days, all file sets I downloaded were incomplete, some quite badly, though all were repairable. Here's a sample shot of quickpar:

http://i53.tinypic.com/10fxk5s.jpg

Unless it was just unusually bad luck on my part (or maybe some other unrelated reason?), it would appear that Highwinds suffers from major completion problems on older files.

Now before anyone suggests a 'solution' - I should add that it was my full intention to see how bad the completion was. So I had disabled auto-par, and dismantled my usual fill-server arrangement, and intentionally selected older files. (Interestingly, a few of the 'bad' rars were not (noticeably) undersized, as would be expected)

Although I tend to download sporadically, I've commonly got perfect to near-perfect completion for older files from Astraweb and Readnews lately, so this result surprised me.

So has Highwinds really turned to crap?

... or am I just blowing smoke? :smoke:

They have always been crap.

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Originally Posted by zot

Unless it was just unusually bad luck on my part (or maybe some other unrelated reason?), it would appear that Highwinds suffers from major completion problems on older files.

So has Highwinds really turned to crap?

... or am I just blowing smoke? :smoke:

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Using UsenetServer's EU and U.S. servers I tested both the top and bottom end of UNS's retention and found no significant completion issues, certainly not any more than Astraweb. All tested archives were completely repairable if any articles/blocks were missing. Here is a snapshot of a 909 day old archive:

http://i55.tinypic.com/30l2jgz.jpg

If anyone would like links or sources to the archives I tested send me a PM.... Highwinds network has come a long long long way from 2 years ago. IMHO it's bitching service at an awesome price....

Of course you would say that cause you own the site in your signature which has newshosting affiliate ads plastered all over it. Try and get stuff that is like between 300 and 600 and see how it is.

Tested several nzbs in that range and still didn't have any unrepairable archives...

Ok, I thought I'd do some direct comparison. I randomly picked out an old file, in this case an NZB of a Linux DVD posted to alt.binaries.nl 716 days ago to see if Highwinds results are out of line with the competition. The results using NZB Download Checker:

http://i54.tinypic.com/j6ofup.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/2n87kli.jpg

Although far from perfect, Usenet-News.net (Readnews) showed substantially better completion than NewsgroupDirect (Highwinds) on this one sample file. Like I said before, I've not (yet) found any unrepairable files on Highwinds (US server), but every file that I've come across on Highwinds/NewsgroupDirect had (IMO) an exceptionally high number of incompletes. The real issue here is not the number of unrepairable files (zero so far) but the high degree of par-fixing required, a processor-intensive task which on an old computer can take longer than re-downloading the entire set of files a second time.

I will say one nice thing about Highwinds. The process of checking article completion on Highwinds US servers using NZB Download Checker was much faster (maybe 2x or 3x faster) than Readnews, at least from my end.

I'll admit that one person reporting on one file hardly makes a case, so hopefully someone else would volunteer to do some additional comparison of Highwinds vs. Readnews or Astraweb that might change my mind about Highwinds suffering from *comparatively* poor completion.

You created an issue by dismantling your normal fill server arrangement. I might be satisfied with the cheapest Highwinds server I could find, supported by a couple of block account fill servers.

I noticed that 'news.us.usenet-news.net' (usenet-news-iad.readnews.com) resolves to 2 IP addresses, and that .14 (reader1 in banner) seems to have better completion than .71 (reader7 in banner). Readnews shuffles their servers around and that could change before you know it.

Highwinds started the long, winding road to.... when then moved out of Phoenix to the tech corridor outside Washington, D.C. (Falls Chuch/Tyson's Corner VA). Of course, at the same time Giganews and others made the same move, for better or worse.

If the server plants don't get good maintenance, things go to h*ll pretty quickly. This weeks award goes to Blocknews, that has been dropping files left and right.

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Originally Posted by mesaman

You created an issue by dismantling your normal fill server arrangement. I might be satisfied with the cheapest Highwinds server I could find, supported by a couple of block account fill servers.

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One reason I did this was because I suspect that most usenet users, probably the vast majority, don't know anything about block accounts or fill servers - they connect to one server only and that's it. Also, some things like MP3s are often posted without any pars, so a person without a fill server needs a provider with good completion. I agree with your strategy of buying a cheap provider and supplementing it with block accounts, but in this case Highwinds is not really less expensive than Readnews (both have $10/month-$96/year unl. specials). I strongly suspect that the main reason that Blocknews/UsenetNow and Ngroups/Usenetnews recently switched from Highwinds to Readnews was to save money, as other factors like completion and retention can be highly variable over time and thus harder to predict.

I think it's a substantial achievement that a small company like Readnews can beat a much larger provider such as Highwinds in retention, completion, and price, as Highwinds has the obvious economy-of-scale advantage.

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Originally Posted by mesaman

I noticed that 'news.us.usenet-news.net' (usenet-news-iad.readnews.com) resolves to 2 IP addresses, and that .14 (reader1 in banner) seems to have better completion than .71 (reader7 in banner). Readnews shuffles their servers around and that could change before you know it.

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Good to know, I wasn't even trying any of those IP-address tricks revealed earlier.

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Originally Posted by Beck38

Highwinds started the long, winding road to.... when then moved out of Phoenix to the tech corridor outside Washington, D.C. (Falls Chuch/Tyson's Corner VA). Of course, at the same time Giganews and others made the same move, for better or worse.

If the server plants don't get good maintenance, things go to h*ll pretty quickly. This weeks award goes to Blocknews, that has been dropping files left and right.

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I remember that - Highwinds' Phoenix server was usually pretty good. Then they shut down their New York and Phoenix servers and migrated everyone to the Atlanta farm they acquired when they bought Usenetserver a few months earlier, and things quickly went downhill, but finally improved again after the move to DC the following year. Retention, which had been stagnant for over two years while Highwinds was busy buying up companies, started climbing again and continues to increase to this day.

Server maintenance and upkeep -or lack of- is certainly a central reason for why problems occur. Perhaps it's no coincidence that not long after Highwinds bought Usenetserver and Easynews, both went through a long stretch of hard times. After all, when it comes down to a choice between paying the bank loan or replacing aging hardware, we all know which takes priority. It seems that in their thirst to expand, Highwinds bit off more than they could chew, so maybe we should all be glad that (as far as I know) they've stopped buying usenet companies the last few years, and are instead concentrating on servicing what they already own. I doubt that Highwinds could afford running any more companies into the ground, like they did with Easynews a couple of years ago.

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Readnews can beat a much larger provider such as Highwinds in retention, completion, and price,

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By sacrificing download speed on older files which has always been pretty awful for me ...

PS

Your linux nzb(on AW):

Parts checked: 16983
Undownloadable parts: 0
All OK!
giganews has also got it all.


to be honest i see only two real competitors on the market with a decent completition , retention and speed- GN and AW.

The first suffers from dmca take downs. the second suffers from technical glitches from time to time

That is if we exclude block accounts and wanna use only one NNTP provider)

Thats it. And its not good at all.

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Originally Posted by Hypatia

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Readnews can beat a much larger provider such as Highwinds in retention, completion, and price,

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By sacrificing download speed on older files which has always been pretty awful for me ...

PS

Your linux nzb(on AW):

Parts checked: 16983
Undownloadable parts: 0
All OK!

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I agree on readnews, the speeds on older posts are nothing short of pathetic and that is not even to be dramatic - as it is for Readnews so shall it be for all its resellers...blocknews, usenetnow. Post processing is not really an issue for me as I download such large batches that don't even notice repair times for any missing articles, all I really care about is whether or not the downloading and unpacking of the files is successful.

Below is a screenshot of the same NZB checked using UsenetServer and guess what? -

http://i56.tinypic.com/3308u4z.png

Mine has more green dots then yours @zot! (Usenet-News) - LOL as demonstrated this is not quite a very effective test and we certainly can't make a judgment on an NSPs overall completion based on one single NZB or a single newsgroup for that matter. Completion is not the same from group to group, with the exception of text groups, your higher trafficed groups will have the highest completion. Using UsenetServer all downloads I tested were repairable or entirely complete. Like most I have an astraweb filler and yes they do seem to have very good completion - seemingly because they simply ignore DMCA requests...have to see how long that lasts, anyway the most important thing we can ask from any provider is can you deliver the download I want in its entirety, repairable or not and can you do it with speed to match the speed of my internet connection? What everyone calls Highwinds, at least the tier 1 providers (UsenetServer and Newshosting) do deliver on speed and completion and I am not arguing for one verses the other as a bias I am just stating facts. Speed is good with very few connections needed. Again, to compare Atraweb to any other NSP on completion is really not a fair comparison as they don't seem to adhere to DMCA (reason why they are a great fill server)

Is there any proof for your claims about Astraweb ignoring DMCA notices?

Or could it just be that Astraweb doesn't fail as much as Lowwinds?

I can't see the big deal. I mean, when I am connected to the university and I use blocknews to pul down an 800 plus old article and it only comes down at 40-50 megabits instead of my normal 80 or so I certainly wouldn't call it pathetic. I only use the eu server for old stuff cause it is way faster but at least it is there and comes down plus I'm not iving any money to that craphole highwinds! :D

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Originally Posted by hdjunky

I can't see the big deal. I mean, when I am connected to the university and I use blocknews to pul down an 800 plus old article and it only comes down at 40-50 megabits instead of my normal 80 or so I certainly wouldn't call it pathetic.

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That equates to between a 30-50% decrease in speed, that is an enormous speed drop over a typical broadband connection of 5-50MBit. We would be talking hours of additional download time on large downloads, and not everyone has access to 100Mbit university plush goodness. No thanks I think I will stick with usenetserver as I don't see any speed drops...I realize that I can't change anyone's minds if they are bias- some are haters just to be cool, but that does not change the fact service is good...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nntpjunkie

That equates to between a 30-50% decrease in speed, that is an enormous speed drop over a typical broadband connection of 5-50MBit. We would be talking hours of additional download time on large downloads, and not everyone has access to 100Mbit university plush goodness. No thanks I think I will stick with usenetserver as I don't see any speed drops...I realize that I can't change anyone's minds if they are bias- some are haters just to be cool, but that does not change the fact service is good...

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Ummm actually my point was that if I am getting 40 mbits plus from the eu server for old articles...someone with a connection less than that probably won't see any problems. Certainly not someone with a small pipe of 10 mbits or 20. No big deal to me really since I have used usenet for yaears so I rarely need to go beyond 50 days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nntpjunkie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hdjunky

I can't see the big deal. I mean, when I am connected to the university and I use blocknews to pul down an 800 plus old article and it only comes down at 40-50 megabits instead of my normal 80 or so I certainly wouldn't call it pathetic.

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That equates to between a 30-50% decrease in speed, that is an enormous speed drop over a typical broadband connection of 5-50MBit. We would be talking hours of additional download time on large downloads, and not everyone has access to 100Mbit university plush goodness. No thanks I think I will stick with usenetserver as I don't see any speed drops...I realize that I can't change anyone's minds if they are bias- some are haters just to be cool, but that does not change the fact service is good...

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Look who's talking - you're the one with a personal agenda in terms of benefiting financially via the affiliate program of a Highwinds reseller, as pointed out earlier on this thread.

Currently I'm using UNS and I have only positive feedback to give them.

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Originally Posted by Hypatia

By sacrificing download speed on older files which has always been pretty awful for me ...

PS

Your linux nzb(on AW):

Parts checked: 16983
Undownloadable parts: 0
All OK!

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The Readnews results actually surprised me that it was that bad (though still much better completion than Highwinds), but for the sake of principal I posted it, sticking to my original plan. (As far too many researchers will expand the test or survey (or even start over anew) when their results aren't what they had expected. As a result, a lot of what ends up getting published, while arguably factual, is in a sense cherry-picked and therefore not representative. /end of rant)

I forgot about Readnews' reported speed issues (I only wish I had a fast enough connection to even notice) but I do remember that Blocknews/UsenetNow had said on the FAQ that the top speed was 40 Mbit/sec.

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Originally Posted by nntpjunkie

Below is a screenshot of the same NZB checked using UsenetServer and guess what? -

http://i56.tinypic.com/3308u4z.png

Mine has more green dots then yours @zot! (Usenet-News) - LOL

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No, it actually does not. Here is mine again; NewsgroupDirect/Highwinds:
http://i54.tinypic.com/j6ofup.jpg

I think you might want to take a closer look at your screenshot, and you'll see that both your and my "green dots" -part for part- are identical. The files are not in sequence as mine were (I used the NZB file that was posted to the group) and also show a disproportionally high number of the small files contained in the set. These small files are, of course, statistically more likely to be shown as complete (green-dotted) in NZB Download Checker since they carry a lot fewer articles per file. As are most usenet binaries, this release was posted as a series of split rar files - each 100MB rar in this case containing 421 articles (parts).

These files (03 thru 09) appear in both my screenshot and *yours*, and also show identical amounts of missing parts:

[03/51] 416 out of 421 parts
[04/51] 419 out of 421 parts
[05/51] 417 out of 421 parts
[06/51] 417 out of 421 parts
[07/51] 419 out of 421 parts
[08/51] 419 out of 421 parts

Bottom line: Usenet-News(Readnews) on this particular file had only a fraction of the number of incompletes as UNS/NewsgroupDirect (Highwinds)

Due to the identical "fingerprint" of missing articles, I assumed that UsenetServer and NewsgroupDirect shared the same Highwinds server farm. Then I noticed that the EU server had the same missing articles as the US server.

Overall, it seems about 1% of articles are missing on Highwinds servers, and that's generally within the range of being covered by par files. This 99% completion rate seems to be about typical of many files on Highwinds servers currently, throughout their 900+ day retention range. By historic usenet standards, 99% overall completion is probably acceptable, but it's much worse than any of the other big usenet providers, and certainly worse than I can recall ever seeing during the 2005-2009 period when I used Highwinds; the key difference being that retention was much less, in the 25-100+ day range, so the system was in a sense "self-cleaning" as older material was pruned from the server to make room for new posts.
In January of last year, completion was even worse on Astraweb, but unlike Highwinds, Astraweb fixed the problem within a few weeks, reportedly by purchasing from other usenet providers. Time will tell if Highwinds elects to do something similar to maintain it's slowly-decaying "back catalog" :)

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Originally Posted by nntpjunkie

Like most I have an astraweb filler and yes they do seem to have very good completion - seemingly because they simply ignore DMCA requests. ... Again, to compare Atraweb to any other NSP on completion is really not a fair comparison as they don't seem to adhere to DMCA

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Not true at all. The real reason Astraweb has better DMCA-related completion is that, like dozens (if not hundreds) of other usenet providers -mostly smaller US or Dutch ones- Astraweb has been flying under the radar, while Hollywood's big guns have had Giganews and Highwinds squarely in their sights. (which makes some sense, since those two companies serve the majority of American subscribers)

The fact is all commercial providers remove infringing content on demand - to do otherwise would be suicide. I doubt that Astraweb's owners would want to see their multi-million-dollar server hardware collecting dust in some police evidence warehouse while they await trial and face time in prison. :lol:

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The real reason Astraweb has better DMCA-related completion is that, like dozens (if not hundreds) of other usenet providers -mostly smaller US or Dutch ones- Astraweb has been flying under the radar, while Hollywood's big guns have had Giganews and Highwinds squarely in their sights.

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Oh really? So it has absolutely nothing to do with whereabouts of their main office? (it is believed to be SIngapore)


And Astraweb is really big now.One of the main players out there.

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Astraweb's owners

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Who are they^ Where are they? Astraweb is a mystery=))

Astraweb company is apparently registered to Singapore in order to avoid paying taxes (which makes them so cheap I guess). Their server hardware is in the US and NL as everyone knows, which makes them fall under the US law.

Code:

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ASTRAWEB.NET WHOIS
Updated: 6 minutes ago
Registrant Contact Information:
    Name: Searchtech Limited
    Address 1: 80 Raffles Place
    Address 2: #16-20 UOB Plaza 2
    City: Singapore
    Zip: 048624
    Country: SG
    Phone: +1.4156801619
    Fax: +1.4156801619
    Email: Email Masking [email protected]

Administrative Contact Information:
    Name: Searchtech Limited
    Address 1: 80 Raffles Place
    Address 2: #16-20 UOB Plaza 2
    City: Singapore
    Zip: 048624
    Country: SG
    Phone: +1.4156801619
    Fax: +1.4156801619
    Email: Email Masking [email protected]

Technical Contact Information:
    Name: Searchtech Limited
    Address 1: 80 Raffles Place
    Address 2: #16-20 UOB Plaza 2
    City: Singapore
    Zip: 048624
    Country: SG
    Phone: +1.4156801619
    Fax: +1.4156801619
    Email: Email Masking [email protected]

Billing Contact Information:
    Name: Searchtech Limited
    Address 1: 80 Raffles Place
    Address 2: #16-20 UOB Plaza 2
    City: Singapore
    Zip: 048624
    Country: SG
    Phone: +1.4156801619
    Fax: +1.4156801619
    Email: Email Masking [email protected]

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Ok. Give me then examples of DMCA removed stuff on AW.

Ive yet to find just one(donr confuse AW's screws up with dmca removals)

DO you honestly believe that all those guys who request removing all these titles from GN\highwinds dont know about AW?Considering its user base it doesnt make any sense

@Hypatia

I think that issue was debated here several times before (such as those long 'GN vs. AW' flamewars). I seem to recall that PC and console games were mentioned as being frequently taken down at Astraweb, but I can't remember the actual titles. (Maybe ask SOL?) Japanese Anime too I think. But really nothing I download.

As to your other question, it might be worth noting that "those guys who request removing all these titles from GN\highwinds" don't appear to even know enough about usenet to submit a proper takedown request. Maybe that's why a year or two ago Giganews added DMCA how-to's inside their post headers - which some of Hollywood's Keystone Cops apparently did not read or heed. :lol:

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PC and console games were mentioned as being frequently taken down at Astraweb

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Arent you confusing something?

The talk has always been about giganews\highwinds considering console games\pc.


Ive never seen on forums someone complaining about DMCA removals of this kind of stuff. And several that i tested that were removed on GN\HW were totally fine.

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Originally Posted by zot

@Hypatia

I think that issue was debated here several times before (such as those long 'GN vs. AW' flamewars). I seem to recall that PC and console games were mentioned as being frequently taken down at Astraweb, but I can't remember the actual titles. (Maybe ask SOL?) Japanese Anime too I think. But really nothing I download.

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I download tons of anime fansubs and use AW, never seen an issue with that (including older stuff). Maybe sources are the issue?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hypatia

Quote:

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PC and console games were mentioned as being frequently taken down at Astraweb

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Arent you confusing something?

The talk has always been about giganews\highwinds considering console games\pc.

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Yeah, the complaints against GN that I've seen usually mention console games, especially xbox games, and HBO shows as the targets. The same files are said to be on AW/Readnews. From my own recent experience after getting an AW block account to supplement my Thundernews (Highwinds) account, there were quite a few games showing up in the headers from AW that were not on Thundernews. I spot checked a few of the .nfos and par2s of the new files and my newsreader only found them on the AW block account.

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Ive never seen on forums someone complaining about DMCA removals of this kind of stuff. And several that i tested that were removed on GN\HW were totally fine.

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Same here.

There's little doubt that Giganews and Highwinds get the lions-share of DMCA takedowns. But that doesn't mean that other companies go completely untouched. I know I've seen discussion about this on this forum maybe a year or two ago, but can't hunt down any posts (the forum search wasn't finding anything and Google does not seem to crawl this site).

I'm just going by what others have reported, I have no direct knowledge/experience myself of finding files missing, but if you want a better answer, maybe ask SonsOfLiberty, I'm fairly sure he was one of the people who was "naming names" :)

The People vs DMCA call for SonOfLiberty! :lol:

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Originally Posted by zot

...I suspect that most usenet users, probably the vast majority, don't know anything about block accounts or fill servers - they connect to one server only and that's it.

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If people can't figure out how to use fill servers why bother? We both use Highwinds + fill servers without any completion problems.

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We both use Highwinds + fill servers

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yeah sure but you know if given a choice i would prefer walkng on my two legs instead of on a pair of crutches

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Originally Posted by Hypatia

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We both use Highwinds + fill servers

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yeah sure but you know if given a choice i would prefer walkng on my two legs instead of on a pair of crutches

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@Hypatia - Speaking as someone who walks with crutches, I can say that they offer a significant advantage in stability - 4 legs is better than 2 :)

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Originally Posted by mesaman

We both use Highwinds + fill servers without any completion problems.

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Not really so much anymore. Lately I've been "going commando" (no fills, no autopar) just to see how good or bad completion is on each provider's server.

... just like the way things were in the old days - with one exception: I've never seen Highwinds this bad (on a continuing basis) in the 6 years I've been using the service. I remember when Highwinds normally had 100% completion most of the time - now it's rare to find any file (other than new posts) that does not require pars. Sadly, this situation shows no sign of ending.