Kids refusing to stand for the pledge of allegiance.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=134807449


Teacher Letter To Ariz. Lawmaker Leads To Inquiry
by The Associated Press

text size A A A PHOENIX March 23, 2011, 10:28 pm ET A metropolitan Phoenix school district has launched an inquiry into a substitute teacher who wrote a letter that portrayed Hispanic students in a harsh light and was read aloud last week at the Arizona Legislature during a debate on an immigration bill.

The Glendale Elementary School District said it has determined that some statements by teacher Tony Hill in his letter to Senate President Russell Pearce were inaccurate.

In the letter, Hill said a majority of the eighth-graders he had recently taught at a Glendale school had refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance and declared that Americans had stolen their land. Hill also wrote that while substitute teaching in the area, he came to believe that "most of the Hispanic students do not want to be educated but rather (want to) be gang members and gangsters."

The letter quickly inflamed the immigration debate in Arizona. A Republican in the Legislature read the letter on the Senate floor during the immigration debate. Democrats expressed suspicion that it was a hoax that had no place in the public debate on immigration.

District spokesman Jim Cummings said all students questioned in the inquiry have said everyone stood for the pledge and that none said their land had been stolen. "What we are finding here — and what we believe — is that the statements that he made weren't accurate," Cummings said.

A recorded message on Hill's phone said his number had been changed or disconnected. He didn't return two e-mails seeking comment on Wednesday afternoon.

The letter was distributed to other Republican senators by Pearce and was read last Thursday by another senator as lawmakers debated one of five bills on illegal immigration. Among the bills considered was one that would require the parents of students at K-12 schools to prove the citizenship of their children.

The district believes the instance that Hill referred to in his letter came during his March 8 stint teaching reading, writing and social studies at Harold W. Smith Elementary School in Glendale.

Substitutes are required to fill out a report after their teaching stint, and Hill made no reference in the form to the Pledge of Allegiance or land claims made in the letter. He did state that students "refused to act proper" but didn't provide specifics in that category or in the section about "inappropriate behavior."

The letter was the subject of heated exchanges on the Senate floor Wednesday as Pearce refused to apologize.

"It's read on the floor as factual," said Democratic Sen. Steve Gallardo of Phoenix, the Senate's most outspoken critic of the letter.

Pearce said no one from the Senate owes an apology for reading the letter. "It was all verified," Pearce said. "I'm disappointed that we assault and attack a teacher for speaking out."

He said the letter wasn't about Hispanics, but rather was about what went on in a classroom where students were disruptive.

In an interview after the debate, Republican Sen. Lori Klein, who read the letter aloud on the Senate floor last week, said she didn't regret bringing to light a teacher's experience, but that she doesn't believe all Hispanic students want to be gang members.

As to whether she believes the school district's findings thus far, Klein said, "I don't think the district wants to be embarrassed," Klein said.

The district had said earlier this week that it had no record of a Tony Hill or Anthony Hill working as a substitute. But Cummings said Wednesday that a closer inspection of records showed that Hill worked as a substitute teacher in the district for nine days this school year as an employee for a temporary service that provides teachers when the district's regular fill-ins aren't available.

Since Hill isn't a district employee, any discipline against Hill would be left up to the temporary service, Cummings said, noting though that he doubts any of the district's principals would be comfortable having him as a substitute at their schools.

A message left for Teachers On Call, the service that sent Hill to the district, wasn't immediately returned Wednesday afternoon.
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Recent First Oldest First Most Recommended nicoline smits (Domela) wrote:

It's a bit late in the day to get worked up about, but it's true that the U.S. stole Mexican land. However, if those 8th graders have such a problem with it, maybe they should live elsewhere. Why torment yourself, right? And that would prevent them from having to receite the Pledge of Allegiance, too.
Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:00:21 AM

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R Bee (Riccard) wrote:

Or Jason Richwine on the disparities with previous waves of immigration:

"The consequences of a large ethno-cultural group’s lagging behind the majority in education and income are significant. In strictly economic terms, perpetually poor immigrants and their descendants will be a major strain on social spending and infrastructure. Health care, public education, welfare payments, the criminal justice system, and programs for affordable housing will all require more tax dollars. When pro-immigration conservatives declare that these government programs should be scaled back or eliminated entirely, I am sympathetic. But a large public sector is a reality that cannot be wished away — we will not be abolishing Medicaid or public schools anytime soon. Immigration policy needs to take that reality into account."

http://nrd.nationalreview.com/articl...ZjMWZiZDY4YzQ=
Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:47:46 AM

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R Bee (Riccard) wrote:

Mr Hill is a man of unusual courage. Aside from these anecdotal reasons to avoid cultural takeover, the legislators could also consider some of the reasons set out by Marty Nemko.

"

And what about the millions of people worldwide who have patiently waited so they can immigrate to the US legally? Can we expect they’ll continue to wait? Or will they just come on in, accelerating the overwhelming of America.

This is sad, not only for America, but for the world. For example, developing nations benefit from a US government and a Corporate America wealthy enough to invest in those countries. For example, when US corporations establish operations in developing nations, they pay employees much more than the country’s prevailing wages and offer far better working conditions. So, a dying America contributes to declining standard of living to people around the globe.

By having de facto suspended our immigration laws, we will soon be just another of the world’s countries struggling just to cope with its own residents’ poverty."

http://www.martynemko.com/articles/o...america_id1253

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201103230037

Fox Gives AZ State Sen. Klein Airtime To Spew Anti-Immigrant Views
March 23, 2011 6:51 pm ET by Solange Uwimana

Today, Fox News reported that during a debate on controversial immigration legislation in Arizona, Republican state Sen. Lori Klein read a letter alleging that Hispanic students "do not want to be educated but rather be gang members and gangsters." As Fox News reported, after Klein read the letter, the legislation went down to defeat. Fox News responded to the controversy by giving airtime to Klein to spew outrageous comments, including the claim that the National Council of La Raza "is a far-leftist, racist organization that is inciting young Hispanics to ... spit on America."

Klein also claimed that the letter-writer is "not a racist" because he is "married to a Hispanic."



Here's the backstory:

On March 15, an Arizonan emailed a letter to state Senate President Russell Pearce (R) in which he recounted what he claimed was his experience teaching eighth-grade students in a Glendale public school. The letter-writer, who was later outed as Tony Hill, claimed in the letter that the mostly Latino children in his class "refused" to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance because, they allegedly said, "we are Mexicans and Americans stole our land."

Hill went on to write:

I have found that substitute teaching in these areas most of the Hispanic students do not want to be educated but rather be gang members and gangsters. They hate America and are determined to reclaim this area for Mexico. If we are able to remove the illegals out of our schools, the class sizes would be reduced and the students who wanted to learn would have a better chance to do so and become productive citizens.

Hill also claimed that during a writing exercise, most of the students "stated they were in the country illegally, White Americans are racist, and that they came here for a better life." When Hill stated that he asked the children to stop speaking Spanish in class, "[t]heir response was that Americans better learn Spanish and their customs because they are taking their land back from us."

Two days later, Klein read this letter aloud on the Senate floor as the chamber debated one of five bills on illegal immigration. The bill, which would have required Arizona school districts to check the legal status of each student, was defeated along with the other four, which would have stripped American citizenship from the children of undocumented immigrants; banned undocumented immigrants from state universities; made it a crime for them to drive a vehicle in Arizona; and required hospitals to check patients' legal status.

ABC News reported of Klein's speech:

The presentation drew an impassioned rebuke from Democratic State Sen. Steve Gallardo, who questioned the authenticity of the anonymous letter, and called the reading of it into the public record deplorable.

"I don't think I've ever heard any floor speech similar to the one that was given out right now," Gallardo said. These students "do not have dreams to be gang members, they do not want to be thugs or whatever we want to phrase it as. These are good kids."

ABC also reported:

While immigrant advocates and civil rights groups have protested the bill itself, the most outrage was sparked by the reading of the letter.

"I've seen a lot of things like this, it's not that out of the ordinary," Anti-Defamation League regional director Bill Straus said in an interview about the letter with local ABC affiliate KNXV. "What is out of the orginary is that it gets the credibility of a state senator reading it word for word on the floor of the senate. It's a disgrace."

Klein said the letter does not reflect her personal view and was not intended to offend. She said she wanted to use it to illustrate one example of conditions inside Phoenix schools.

"Not one of us on the Senate floor is racist or has anything other than the hope that people who are here in this country will appreciate what they are getting in terms of their education to get ahead in life," she told KNXV.

KVOA.com further reported that "Gallardo said he believes Pearce distributed the letter in hopes of winning votes for the bills."

It is amid this controversy that Fox News invited Klein to appear on one of its shows this afternoon. Teasing the interview, America Live host Megyn Kelly reported that Klein is "being accused of racism for repeating the contents of the letter" and that "some are demanding that [Klein] apologize for reading this in a public forum and questioning whether the substitute teacher really exists."

During the interview, Klein stated:

KLEIN: There is no apology necessary. This is something that's happening, unfortunately, today in our classrooms here in Arizona and California. I've had letters from all over the country, as well as other teachers here in Arizona applauding that I had the courage to read the letter, because we do have a problem. You know, we're educating and spending billions of others in our state and if this is where our money is going, the taxpayers have a right to know that this kind of behavior, which is not acceptable from any race, is happening in our schools.

[...]

KLEIN: I mean, as a mother, as a taxpayer, I think it's important, if my kids were acting out like this in school, they'd be grounded for a year. And I think it's important that we address problems instead of hiding them under the carpet.

When Kelly pointed out that many were questioning the veracity of the letter and whether the teacher was real, Klein replied:

KLEIN: The gentleman does exist. He's spoken with our Senate president. He is a substitute teacher. He's on record as such. He's married to a Hispanic, by the way, so he's not a racist. But he identified a problem that we face.

We have an organization here called La Raza, which is a far-leftist racist organization that is inciting young Hispanics to act out, not say the pledge, spit on America, and say it's our right to take America back. And this is really creating a problem here.

The local ABC News affiliate in Arizona reported that "[a]ccording to the Glendale Elementary School District, Tony Hill worked nine days as a substitute teacher in the district. He was not one of GESD's regular substitute teachers, but worked for Teachers On Call, a substitute teacher placement service, according to spokesman Jim Cummings." It further reported:

District officials say Hill taught eighth grade writing and social studies at Harold W. Smith Elementary School on March 8.

In an e-mailed statement, the district said it believes that the statements made by Mr. Hill in regard to our students and school were not accurate. Students who were interviewed did not recall making or hearing any of the inflammatory statements attributed to them by Mr. Hill, and students also said they stood for the daily recital of the Pledge of Allegiance.

The district said it will continue to investigate the matter but does not believe Hill's letter accurately reflects the conduct of the students and staff at the school.

It is notable that Arizona state Senate President Pearce is the lawmaker who sponsored one of the state's previous controversial immigration laws, which directs police to check the immigration status of people they stop for traffic violations and other offenses if they suspect the person is in the country illegally. For months, Fox repeatedly defended the law, denying the possibility that it would lead to racial profiling. In fact, Fox Newsers embraced the law's potential for racial profiling; for example, contributor Steven Crowder commented: "I don't think there's really anything wrong as far as racial profiling, stopping people who are coming in illegally. I mean, you're not looking for a blond haired, blue eyed Swede most of the time."

Fox figures also attacked critics of the law by invoking the idea of a civil war, and they even went so far as to promote the law's legal defense fund on the air. And during one particularly memorable segment, Fox & Friends continued the network's pushback against the immigration law's detractors by hosting a columnist of anti-immigration website VDARE.com. VDARE.com, as we noted, is on the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of hate groups because of its practice of publishing columns by white supremacists, supporters of eugenics, and anti-Semites.

Moreover, Fox used racially charged rhetoric to defend the law. At one point, Brian Kilmeade asked: "Can you blame the people of Arizona for giving the cops this power? ... You know how many surgeons we find in those tunnels by the border?" Indeed, as we've documented, there is ample evidence showing that Fox News' coverage of immigration issues is reliably hostile to immigrants.

Full text of controversial letter:



March 15, 2011

Dear Senator Russell Pearce,

I am compelled to write to you about a recent event that occurred to me. I currently work as a substitute teacher in the west valley areas of Phoenix, Glendale, and Peoria. I was called upon to teach history and language arts for 8th grade at a Glendale public school. The number of students I had in each class ranged from 28 to 38 children, which were almost all Hispanic and a couple of Black children. The day started out as usual turning on the television listening and watching the announcements and saying the Pledge of Allegiance. During the Pledge of Allegiance I notice the vast majority of students refusing to stand and say the pledge. I asked the students why they refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance and they responded by saying, "we are Mexicans and Americans stole our land."

The teacher's instructions were for the students to read a few pages and answer the questions regarding Mark Twain in their history textbook and to finish their final drafts to Senator Steve Gallardo thanking him for his position on Illegal Immigration rights. Their teacher apparently had showed them a video with Senator Steve Gallardo and Lou Dobbs. Most of the students came unprepared for class not possessing paper and pencil. I provided the students with paper and pencils only to have them wade-up the paper and throw it at each other along with their pencils.

The students' final drafts that I read were basically the same. Most of them stated they were in the country illegally, White Americans are racist, and that they came here for a better life. I asked the class if America adopted Mexico immigration laws would Americans still be consider racist?

That question they could not answer and called me a racist for asking it. I mentioned that my wife and children are Hispanic so how could I be racist? I asked the students to stop speaking Spanish in class because it was impolite to speak a language in front of people who may not speak that language. Their response was that Americans better learn Spanish and their customs because they are taking their land back from us.

When it came to completing the Mark Twain assignment only 10 students completed it out of all my classes. Most of the students refused to open the book, tore the pages out of the book, or threw the textbooks at each other. I thought are these the students we are trying to educate with taxpayers money. I have found that substitute teaching in these areas most of the Hispanic students do not want to be educated but rather be gang members and gangsters. They hate America and are determined to reclaim this area for Mexico. If we are able to remove the illegals out of our schools, the class sizes would be reduced and the students who wanted to learn would have a better chance to do so and become productive citizens.

I applaud and support your efforts to stop this invasion into our state and country. When the citizens of a country are forced to speak the invaders language, adopt their customs, and forced to support them, are we not a conquer nation? I do not want to see our state and nation turned into a third world country. Thank you for standing up to this invasion. You may contact me by phone, e-mail, or mail. Thank you, again.

Sincerely,

Tony Hill

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...tter-3-22-2011

Immigration Debate Reignited by Substitute Teacher's Letter
Updated: Tuesday, 22 Mar 2011, 10:34 PM MDT
Published : Tuesday, 22 Mar 2011, 7:13 PM MDT

PHOENIX - State lawmakers are blasting the words of a substitute teacher, who said his Hispanic students hate America and just want to be gang members.

A letter from that teacher was read by Republican State Senator Lori Klein last week during a hearing on immigration bills -- a move to rally support for a bill cracking down on illegal immigrant students -- a bill that did not pass.

Some lawmakers say it wasn't appropriate, and in fact, it's racist and ridiculous. Click here to read the entire letter »

The letter was signed by Tony Hill of Litchfield Park. The Arizona Department of Education says he is a certified substitute teacher.

In the letter, Hill writes to Sen. Russell Pearce, detailing an experience he had substitute-teaching at a Glendale public school.

"I asked the students why they refused to say the pledge of allegiance and they said we are Mexicans and Americans stole our land," the letter reads.

It goes on to say, "most of the Hispanic students do not want to be educated but rather be gang members and gangsters. They hate America and are determined to reclaim this area for Mexico."

Democratic Senator Steve Gallardo does not believe any of this happened.

"It is hard to believe we would have a class that would behave in this manner, 8th graders. Show me an 8th grade class that behaves like this," he says. "Anyone who would have read this would have said it is nonsense."

Senator Klein is standing firm, and is not apologizing for reading the letter.

"If they are not there to be educated and just want to make political statements we have a problem," she says.

"Do you think most Mexican American students want to be gangsters?" we asked.

"No I do not believe that," she replied.

"Do you think this letter blew that out of proportion?" we asked.

"I think that was his experience," responded Klein.

We tried to contact Tony Hill for an interview, but he did not respond.

We should also add, neither the Glendale Elementary School District nor other districts serving public school students in Glendale had any records of an Anthony or Tony Hill working as a substitute teacher.

BIG INTERVIEW | We talked to Sen. Steve Gallardo about this letter. He says there are some unanswered questions regarding the veracity of the author's claim, and that it was very irresponsible to read it on the Senate floor without verification.

Statement by Russell Pearce, State Senate President
"On March 17, Sen. Lori Klein read on the Senate floor a letter written to me by a teacher in the West Valley. The letter described the challenges he faces in his classroom, with defiant students ignoring their school assignments, refusing to say the Pledge of Allegiance and showing utter contempt for the United States. The letter gave a great first-hand perspective of the difficulties our outstanding school teachers face on a daily basis.

I am shocked that Members of the Minority are so quick to defend the actions of these troublemakers, and mock the frustration many teachers feel in bringing order to the classroom. Some Members even questioned the letter writer's existence, suggesting this was all fiction, and there was no teacher.

I've spoken with the teacher who wrote this letter. He stands by all he wrote. This is happening in our classrooms. The behavior by these students cannot and will not be condoned. Teachers have the right and the duty to keep control of their classroom.

Some Members of the Minority are now calling for me to apologize, and calling for Sen. Klein to apologize for reading it. We will not apologize. A teacher has a First Amendment right to express themselves, and we have an obligation to our citizens to keep them informed on what is happening in our schools."

I'm confused.
What am I supposed to be taking from this?

Any chance you could copy and paste your opinion on this, 9's?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 999969999

Klein also claimed that the letter-writer is "not a racist" because he is "married to a Hispanic."

---

Sorry, marrying someone of a particular ethnicity/race does not provide an acquittal of racism. A family member of mine married a Puerto Rican woman, but saw all other Puerto Ricans as "noisy gangbanging thugs just waiting to get locked up, or just one of the thug's child spitting whores". Well it's not an exact quote, but it sums up any one of his rants. I think most racists make exceptions to their generally ignorant stances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clocker

I'm confused.
What am I supposed to be taking from this?

---

Just pick your favorite part and have at it, numbers man here probably hasn't even read the whole thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by megabyteme

Any chance you could copy and paste your opinion on this, 9's?

---

Are you being cruel? Here this "9's" exists, unable to generate its own opinions, feeding on and recycling on those that are generously donated by the benevolent workers of Fox News Charity Commentary, and you throw its deficiencies right into its face. Do you also sidle up quadriplegics and ask, "Excuse me, I would very much like to see you sprint 100 m, would it be a bother..."?

Interesting, interesting. I didn't want to be accused of only presenting the "talking points" of conservative talk radio, like Clocky and Lucifer usually do (I wouldn't want to be like the liberals and shut down any dissenting points of view), so I made sure that liberal sources such as NPR and MediaMatters were also presented. And I wanted to see what your response would be, which so far is very telling, indeed.

Just for the sake of argument, let's just assume that Hill's letter is an accurate portrayal of the classroom in which he was a substitute teacher. Do you see any problems with the students' behavior? Why or why not?

Just for the sake of argument, let's just assume that Hill's letter is a total fabrication and merely another anti-immigration tactic.
Do you see any problem with Arizona politicians reading this letter into the official state record without vetting it at all?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 999969999

so I made sure that liberal sources such as NPR and MediaMatters were also presented

---

Essentially Fox didn't provide you with anything valuable, you could have just read the actual news and formulated an opinion, but you failed to do that. It was very telling, indeed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 999969999

I didn't want to be accused of only presenting the "talking points" of conservative talk radio, like Clocky and Lucifer usually do (I wouldn't want to be like the liberals and shut down any dissenting points of view), so I made sure that liberal sources such as NPR and MediaMatters were also presented. And I wanted to see what your response would be, which so far is very telling, indeed.

---

You are supposedly going off to college soon (all expenses paid by someone else because you think being a self made man would insult your family). While you admit that you haven't earned a place through academic achievement I have to assume your IQ is higher than that of a yogurt because the school hasn't rejected you.

Present your own opinion and why you come to it instead of verbatim opinions from others. Substituting right with left just shows a lack of critical thinking ability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Present your own opinion and why you come to it instead of verbatim opinions from others. Substituting right with left just shows a lack of critical thinking ability.

---

Critical thinking isn't required to enter college. Supposedly they'll teach you that when you get there, but not if you're pre-med.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clocker

Just for the sake of argument, let's just assume that Hill's letter is a total fabrication and merely another anti-immigration tactic.
Do you see any problem with Arizona politicians reading this letter into the official state record without vetting it at all?

---

So, you're afraid to answer my question?

I understand.

If I was a liberal, I would be afraid of it, too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 999969999

Just for the sake of argument, let's just assume that Hill's letter is an accurate portrayal of the classroom in which he was a substitute teacher. Do you see any problems with the students' behavior? Why or why not?

---

Do you consider this alleged teacher a good or bad teacher?

If he was a permanent teacher and not a substitute would you be for lowering his pay or even firing him due to poor student performance?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 999969999

So, you're afraid to answer my question?

I understand.

If I was a liberal, I would be afraid of it, too.

---

You're confusing fear with refusal.
Perhaps that'll get covered in one of your college courses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 999969999

So, you're afraid to answer my question?

---

This wasn't directed at me, but I just wanted to interject and remind you that you haven't shown any evidence that you're capable of producing thought. Therefore, there's no incentive in answering "your" questions. As the response would be manufactured drivel and an obvious display of your ability to not comprehend the reply. I would weight more torwards the lack of comprehension that makes it a waste of time...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 999969999

Just for the sake of argument, let's just assume that Hill's letter is an accurate portrayal of the classroom in which he was a substitute teacher. Do you see any problems with the students' behavior? Why or why not?

---

Do you consider this alleged teacher a good or bad teacher?

To be honest, it sounds like he didn't have control over his classroom, so I would have to say that he is probably a bad teacher.


If he was a permanent teacher and not a substitute would you be for lowering his pay or even firing him due to poor student performance?

Based upon student performance in this case, he was unable to get them to do the assignment, he probably should be fired. Part of a teacher's responsibility is to have a good rapport with students so he can motivate them to actually do their assignments. He obviously lacked that. He should probably find another field of employment because he not good at his job.

But that still does not excuse what the students did.

So now that I have answered your question, answer mine.

---

....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 999969999

I didn't want to be accused of only presenting the "talking points" of conservative talk radio, like Clocky and Lucifer usually do (I wouldn't want to be like the liberals and shut down any dissenting points of view), so I made sure that liberal sources such as NPR and MediaMatters were also presented. And I wanted to see what your response would be, which so far is very telling, indeed.

---

You are supposedly going off to college soon (all expenses paid by someone else because you think being a self made man would insult your family).

http://financialaid.uoregon.edu/1011_cost_of_attendance

"Resident Tuition and Fees Based on enrollment of 15 credits per term (45 credits per year) $8,190
Nonresident / International Tuition and Fees Based on enrollment of 15 credits per term (45 credits per year) $25,830
Does not reflect Programmatic Fees or the $300 Matriculation Fee for incoming students

On-Campus Housing Standard Double Occupancy Room, with Standard Meal Plan $9,144
Off-Campus Housing Monthly: Rent $496, Food $380, Utilities $140 $9,144

Books and Supplies Cost varies depending on requirements for enrolled courses $1,050

Personal Expenses Cost varies depending on personal spending habits $2,412
"Personal Expenses" represents typical expenses that a student may incur in the course of day to day living: local transportation, clothing, personal items, laundry, going to a movie, or buying a pizza. It is provided for personal planning purposes only and does not represent a direct cost of attending the University.

Total Cost of Attendance (Resident) $20,796
Total Cost of Attendance (Nonresident) $38,436 "

So, let me see if I understand you. If someone offered you about $38,000 per year you would turn it down and walk away from it?

Even if I worked full-time at an entry level job, there is no way I could afford to attend the University of Oregon from my wages alone. And when would I find the time to attend my classes and study? Accounting is not rocket science, I'll admit that, but it will still probably require some study time. My family makes too much money to qualify for government sources of financial aid (Pell Grants, etc.). The only other option would be to take out student loans to pay it. Does that sound like a good idea to you?

---

....


Accounting at U of O

http://admissions.uoregon.edu/majors/accounting

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 999969999

To be honest, it sounds like he didn't have control over his classroom, so I would have to say that he is probably a bad teacher.
Based upon student performance in this case, he was unable to get them to do the assignment, he probably should be fired. Part of a teacher's responsibility is to have a good rapport with students so he can motivate them to actually do their assignments. He obviously lacked that. He should probably find another field of employment because he not good at his job.

But that still does not excuse what the students did.

So now that I have answered your question, answer mine.

---

Firstly, it was a substitute teacher, did you even read the articles? I really don't want to go back and double check, so there's a slight chance that my memory has caused me to make a false statement. Secondly, your commentary indicates you have no frame of reference what it's like to work in a public school system. Ever since No Child Left Behind, the schools have been increasingly transformed into test prep facilities. This has caused real education to fall dramatically, so while the general trend of education (quality level over history) tends to increase, the U.S. is experiencing an acute decline due to poor education policies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mjmacky

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 999969999

To be honest, it sounds like he didn't have control over his classroom, so I would have to say that he is probably a bad teacher.
Based upon student performance in this case, he was unable to get them to do the assignment, he probably should be fired. Part of a teacher's responsibility is to have a good rapport with students so he can motivate them to actually do their assignments. He obviously lacked that. He should probably find another field of employment because he not good at his job.

But that still does not excuse what the students did.

So now that I have answered your question, answer mine.

---

Firstly, it was a substitute teacher, did you even read the articles? I really don't want to go back and double check, so there's a slight chance that my memory has caused me to make a false statement. Secondly, your commentary indicates you have no frame of reference what it's like to work in a public school system. Ever since No Child Left Behind, the schools have been increasingly transformed into test prep facilities. This has caused real education to fall dramatically, so while the general trend of education (quality level over history) tends to increase, the U.S. is experiencing an acute decline due to poor education policies.

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Whether he's a sub or a full time teacher is irrelevant. He is getting paid to do a job, the full time teacher is relying on him to get the job done, and he failed miserably at it. He sucks at his job and should not be a teacher. That still does not excuse what the students did.

Dude, I just recently graduated from high school, so no, of course I do not have any experience teaching in public schools [shudder]. I would never want to work for any government entity.

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Originally Posted by 999969999

To be honest, it sounds like he didn't have control over his classroom, so I would have to say that he is probably a bad teacher.

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Originally Posted by 999969999

Based upon student performance in this case, he was unable to get them to do the assignment, he probably should be fired. Part of a teacher's responsibility is to have a good rapport with students so he can motivate them to actually do their assignments. He obviously lacked that. He should probably find another field of employment because he not good at his job.

But that still does not excuse what the students did.

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You think a teachers job is to raise the children? You think they should be spending time teaching basic behavior? This alleged incident wasn't even a kindergarten class, the students were supposed to be mature enough to be able to act responsibly enough to be able to learn.

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Originally Posted by 999969999

So now that I have answered your question, answer mine.

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Your answer was in my question. The students are to blame for their behavior, not the teacher. You admitted in another thread that you didn't do well enough in high school to get an academic scholarship, is that the fault of your teachers or your fault for not studying hard enough?

Just to be clear on my views on education.

There probably are a few bad teachers, but the vast majority of problems are due to parents expecting schools to raise their children for them, teach behavior etc. and not taking an interest in the kids at home. Our kids were reading at second grade level before they started kindergarten. Many of the children in their classes couldn't even spell their own names when they started kindergarten.

The schools are not failing the children. The parents and children are failing the schools.

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Originally Posted by 999969999

http://financialaid.uoregon.edu/1011_cost_of_attendance

"Resident Tuition and Fees Based on enrollment of 15 credits per term (45 credits per year) $8,190
Nonresident / International Tuition and Fees Based on enrollment of 15 credits per term (45 credits per year) $25,830
Does not reflect Programmatic Fees or the $300 Matriculation Fee for incoming students

On-Campus Housing Standard Double Occupancy Room, with Standard Meal Plan $9,144
Off-Campus Housing Monthly: Rent $496, Food $380, Utilities $140 $9,144

Books and Supplies Cost varies depending on requirements for enrolled courses $1,050

Personal Expenses Cost varies depending on personal spending habits $2,412
"Personal Expenses" represents typical expenses that a student may incur in the course of day to day living: local transportation, clothing, personal items, laundry, going to a movie, or buying a pizza. It is provided for personal planning purposes only and does not represent a direct cost of attending the University.

Total Cost of Attendance (Resident) $20,796
Total Cost of Attendance (Nonresident) $38,436 "

So, let me see if I understand you. If someone offered you about $38,000 per year you would turn it down and walk away from it?

Even if I worked full-time at an entry level job, there is no way I could afford to attend the University of Oregon from my wages alone. And when would I find the time to attend my classes and study? Accounting is not rocket science, I'll admit that, but it will still probably require some study time. My family makes too much money to qualify for government sources of financial aid (Pell Grants, etc.). The only other option would be to take out student loans to pay it. Does that sound like a good idea to you?

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Attachment 70705

Welcome to the real world boy. You already know I paid my own way in life. Thousands of students do so each year. What do you think that says about you?

The point child is that at your age you shouldn't still need a wet nurse. Shit you don't even intend to pay the money back.