Something I found, why isn't this front page news....
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5...1918014618.jpg
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1395/pysdr.jpg
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Something I found, why isn't this front page news....
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5...1918014618.jpg
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1395/pysdr.jpg
Because I personally believe we are over empowering a group of left wing kids by publishing their stunts.
Left wing, right wing, shwing. Whatever pisses Sony off is fine with me. They are evil for so many reasons it's difficult to know where to start.
Didn't the guy behind the last "operation" get caught or something?
Some dutch 12 year olds no?
I like their motto: "Courage is contagious". :rolleyes:
Oddly, last time one of them was caught, there was nothing about bravery found on his actions.
I may have to like you yet. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by shipwreck
Sony can kiss the fattest part of my ass. We're talking about the company that put rootkits on their CDs so that people who legally bought their products couldn't copy them onto their computers. They have a long history of being closed-minded, closed-format, and abusing the consumers to the very limits they'll withstand.
As far as I'm concerned, they deserve whatever they get. Not that a DDoS will really do much.
Levi Coffin.... Oskar Schindler... Martin Luther King Jr.......GeoHot .Now add the name of anonymous dude typing on his couch someplace to the list of history's great heroes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabalo
I actually do admire GeoHot. I think he is one of the few who have truly put themselves out there to stand against the MEGAcorps and their self-serving, anti-consumer BS.
Ha! It's because you've never met/spoken to him directly I assume. He's an egotistic ass who steals other people's work (and mind you I'm not just talking about the PS3), and then uses other people's documented methods to gain popularity. This entire thing is nothing more than him trying to get a job, I assure you.
Sony and EgoHot deserve each other.
Anon always makes threats like this.... Literally go to an anon board and just refresh the page a little....
Personally, I believe anyone who stays on the site religiously to have no life. It is just a bunch of perverted immature teenagers that will do anything to get attention/harm other people.
The information they are providing for there reasons have no credible sources????
People will just blindly attack sony with a simple image, with a few random reasons......
Better yet, good luck trying to DDoS sony.
In any case..... arm your cannons lol.
http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=220491
Sony deserves everything they get and more, for whatever reasons. The company that intentionally installed rootkits on the PCs of their customers, that pushes monstrosities like the Cinavia 'protection' that actually only hurts their honest customers (again...), or continuously tried to establish nonsense 'standards' like the Memory Stick, out of pure greed and their insatiable thirst for control. Where to start indeed.
A properly planned and executed DDoS attack can not be stopped. Depending on the scale, any site can be brought down, even the largest ones.
I have not met/spoken with him. I would appreciate it if you would post links to info detailing his theft of others' work. AFAIK, he is widely credited with the iPhone, and now the PS3. I have not seen any criticisms beside yours (I, admittedly, have not looked for them), and am interested in hearing, "the other side".Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Rings
I do know he is in the line of fire for an issue that absolutely needs to be addressed legally. If he were to get a job for his efforts, I don't see how that would be a bad thing, really.
Well with the PS3 the method to obtain the master keys had already been published as a proof of concept, they just hadn't actually been released.
With the iPhone, most of the other jailbreak developers hate him because he tends to release things haphazardly at inopportune times, for example when Apple is just about to release a new update to have something easily patched.
He certainly does have a huge ego, but there's no denying he's got some talent.
I may dislike Sony as much as the next poster, but one question hasn't been answered.
What real consequence is it going after their servers? I mean, disrupting PSN and making it hard to get to their support page... is anybody really going to suffer as a result? I could maybe understand an uproar over an attack on Microsoft servers, but it's not like anything on Sony's servers will really be missed. In fact, there might be some innocent people suffering, plugged into to Sonyverse and this could temporarily free them from a Sonyhell. They don't really host relevance, so it seems like a bit of a wasted effort.
Sony actually surpassed Microsoft Xbox as far as PS3 online services are concerned just recently, for example. It obviously generates some good money for them.
Guess this is more about the symbolic impact than anything though. Whatever, fuck Sony and every of their associates. And their associates. And the 'Age of Dragon' producers for wasting 10 minutes of my life.
Edit: Information changed...
While many may not agree with the actions of Anonymous, what is an alternative recourse to a multi-billion dollar company that is attacking not only personal computer freedoms, but also violating the privacy and rights of individuals?
If a foreign country were to invade your cities, would you not take up arms (or even rocks if that is all you had) against those who would do you harm? While it is certainly not the "high road" they are taking, it is one way a group has found to fight back- do whatever small, disruptive, or costly actions you can while raising awareness to your cause in hopes that a larger, stronger force will recognize your message- and lend their strength.
While some of the "attacks" may be childish, or even enacted by children (who are wanna-be's, or playing), the messages do have validity. Even if you find the "attacks" lame, remember the messages next time you think about supporting a loathsome corporation such as Sony. Regardless of their latest "cool" gizmo- DO NOT BUY THEIR PRODUCTS. ULTIMATELY, YOU ARE AIDING YOUR OWN ENEMY. That is, unless you like having online, and consumer product freedoms taken from you.
With the exception of a $30 stereo bluetooth headset from Sony Ericsson for which there is no (affordable) alternative of similar quality, I haven't bought a Sony product since the Playstation 1 in 1995. I've been avoiding them like the plague exactly because of that.
Most of my electronics were made by Sony. I love my unhacked PS3 and don't really care about all of the whining about Sony.
Not only are you a poor consumer (Sony is FAR better at marketing than they are at building quality components, with a few exceptions), but you are also dim witted when it comes to consumer rights issues. Thanks for clarifying that for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monaco
Consumer law was easily the most boring elective I took in law school. My professor accused me of similar charges. With the exception of a few instances where the poor are truly preyed upon or people's safety is at risk, I just don't care. Frankly, I didn't research my purchases, I just went to the Sony store at my local mall and bought what I wanted, which is generally how I make purchases.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabytemeNot only are you a poor consumer (Sony is FAR better at marketing than they are at building quality components, with a few exceptions), but you are also dim witted when it comes to consumer rights issues. Thanks for clarifying that for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monaco
You sound pretty stereotypical American tbh. Are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Monaco
Bingo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monaco
My portable headphones were made by Sony (MDR-7506). If I ever buy another high end piece of headphone goodness, they would be the Sony MDR-R10.
My laptop is a Sony Vaio Z. If I were to ever upgrade it would be to the newer model or a different VAIO. I'd also buy a Sony TX in a heart beat.
My entertainment has always been Sony, starting with a PS1/2/P/3. They are all hacked and they are lovely, and I basically grew my gaming sweet tooth on a dualshock.
There is no moral foundation for any of these actions, and trying to reason that what was done was "right" is stupid. Hackers opened up the PS3, Sony retaliated. Did no one see it coming, really? This isn't about copyrights, this is just about being right. Sony isn't and shouldn't stand still while their console gets opened wide over sideways and under.
You obviously have never had a lot of Sony products. My dear father has had his MDR-V6's for 20 years. I recently walked into a Sony store with my headphones, a month before my 5-year warranty was up, and suggested that the drivers were starting to get colored and was instantly given a new pair, even though there was nothing wrong with them, I just thought that I may as well use my warranty in order to last myself an extra 5 years with my purchase.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
My PS1 has been in working order since 1997. My PS2 since 2001. How many times have XBox releases fail since? How many other consoles from Nintendo report fatal errors?
All the VAIOs I ever bought (my previous 4 laptops) have been fantastic laptop with minimal (and actually useful at times) bloatware, and have all remained in functioning order years after their intended usage. I replaced them not out of necessity but out of wanting a new laptop and them getting old. Dells and HP's, even ASUS have repeatedly failed on me, and left me without a laptop while they had to be shipped halfway around the world for fixing.
Marketing? Bleh. More like superb customer service, and things that work the same way they were intended, as well as products that outlast themselves and are repeatedly top of the line. It's why I pay the Sony premium.
EDIT:
Also, fuck anyone the succumbs to the hacker propaganda. They're painting a picture of them being the victims. Please. OtherOS was taken out because GeoHot was trying to run pirated games eventually. His speech of wanting to simply run linux is a lie. He says anything that makes him seem respectable/amazing in people's eyes. "I'm fighting for people's public rights", "I just wanted to run linux", etc. The brat is a disgusting concoction of toe-stepping actions and ego-framing stunts. Want to know how real hackers work? They keep their work private. Unlike GeoHot, Mathieulh, Graf_Chokolo etc. I myself, as well as many other people had "pseudo" hacks running or keys extracted from the PS3 long before this major exploit came along (that GeoHot did not find, but just publicized as his own). You are welcome to do whatever you wish to your own console, it's your own. But you're not free to distribute it, that's where he's stepping over the line.
Before I spent most of time studying and fooling around with 10-15 games a week I used to develop hacks for online games. They're fantastic little things and a massive money hoarder. The only issue I ever morally had was the distribution, and I eventually quit because I saw it unfit anymore to allow people to ride on my back or use the hacks I created to destroy other people's enjoyment. My original intent was fun, level-headed action in private rooms, and that's how I used any cheat I developed. Flying around in the air on CS servers shooting 250% damage pistol bullets. Again: The 'real' hackers don't publicize their work, and they don't attempt to make of themselves anything by virtue of their deeds. GeoHot actually had a sign on his site saying "If any of you big three want to hire me, just call," or something along those lines.
If you want to read up on all of this it's freely available through google. I won't look for them, simply because you're equally competent as I am. I'm sure something like "limera1n criticism", "limera1n stolen", or "Team FailOverFlow vs. GeoHot" in google will prove a lot to you about who that trashy kid really is. He's talented but not nearly as talented as he would have people think.
Yes, I am passionate about this because I'm sick of seeing people stick these hackers up on a podium as casualties of a war waged by the people against the evil corporate world. I will stand up for my own rights, in the way I see fit, on my computer, and by my own efforts. Everyone else is free to do as they choose. I don't need some dork somewhere and his two lawyers dictating to me what I should be feeling towards a company.
You are intelligent enough to get into law school, but "don't care" about corporations trampling the rights of its consumer base. And you walk into a store without researching your purchases. Why do I get the feeling you did not pay for your own schooling, nor the electronics? :dabs:Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoConsumer law was easily the most boring elective I took in law school. My professor accused me of similar charges. With the exception of a few instances where the poor are truly preyed upon or people's safety is at risk, I just don't care. Frankly, I didn't research my purchases, I just went to the Sony store at my local mall and bought what I wanted, which is generally how I make purchases.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
I edited my post, MBM. Hope you read all the modified parts. :happy:
@jojo
I think you got it right there. Basically I've always used either Sony or Apple products. So when I had to equip my own place, I knew that without nitpicking through tech blogs I could go to Sony and not be disappointed by my purchase. Especially re: consoles, my buddy had 5+ 360's die on him and I'd only owned PS consoles, so it was a foregone conclusion I'd buy the PS3.
@ megabyteme:
I paid (or am paying) for everything. Perhaps it is just a personality thing or a result of my upbringing, but I simply do not see any consumer's rights being trampled here. I see a company addressing a problem in protecting their rights. On the other side, I recognize the people fighting for what they believe should be their rights in our evolving digitized world. But that's not what the law says. And I'm not a free market conservative or anything like that, so don't assume too much.
I love my PS3. Do I agree with everything sony is doing? No. Is that going to stop me from enjoying games? No! I'm not going to be forced to buy some shoddy hardware from microsoft, which at the time of my purchase, had over a 50% failure rate.
Hell, I dont agree with half of what my government is doing, but does that stop me from living here? No!
Just because you don't fully agree with something is no reason to avoid it all together. Some people think if everyone avoids it, they will change, but guess what? That rarely happens, especially with a giant company like Sony. They could give two shits about what you think or if you buy their stuff or not. Your loss, not theirs.
Have fun on your moral high ground while I play some great games, or listen to music on my great headphones.
Is no one reading your post, is it probably too long? I mean, with the opinions here (mine included), it should receive some backlash, but no one responded. Don't worry, I'll give my reply to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Rings
This anti-Sony sentiment I harbor isn't so much sympathy for "GeoHot", but rather empathy for an(some) individual(s) targeted by a corporation. Essentially, according to your story, he highlighted a hack that allowed one to open the PS3 to a Linux installation once again, after it was removed by Sony. Is this supposed to be of any significant consequence to the multifaceted megacorporation that is Sony? I would wager a pretty confident 'no'. Granted, Sony has every right to pursue the individual in question, but have they been put into a situation where keeping their business successful warrants this magnitude of a response? I don't think so, and find it to be really dick of them.
On another note, we haven't had 4 Sony Vaio's run through our family, for having 2 motherboard failures due to poor soldering has led us astray from considering further Sony laptop purchases. They were of different generations and replacement boards were going to run $500-$600. The only Sony product owned in our household (that I can think of) is the Walkman, which is great, because it can play stolen music that is drag-n-dropped into it (love USB mass storage modes).
I read it, I have not had time to give it a worthy reply. Rings and I have had several conversations on this board, and often the ones where we disagree end up consuming a fair amount of time. My life is quite full right now (that will change drastically after finishing our remodel undertakings, and my thesis).
Apologies for not replying accordingly, Rings. Perhaps macky will give you a run... :D
I'm in no rush, MBM. :)
I understand how painful it is to type up a reply, I sometimes stop mid-rant in order to remind myself I need to finish a paper. Also, MBM, for when you have time, look up the Sony QUALIA line of electronics, which are no longer in production, but properly showcast everything that the brand name stands for.
I never aimed to suggest that anti-Sony statements are due to any hacker-related siding. I just said that some of the fuel comes from that side. You are feeling empathic towards a thief, who uses this entire thing as a publicity stunt. Sure it sucks that GeoHot gets sued, but it was his own doing that got him there. Fun fact, GeoHot released nothing to the world that wasn't going to be released anyway. He got himself involved, and threw himself onto the oncoming train of a multi-billion dollar corporation, basically challenging them to sue him what with all the public outreach and all. Nobody expected Sony to sit still, and everyone involved realize some rights were going to be taken away (PSN access etc.). No one says "Someone lost a foot while drilling a chainsaw into the ground - I can't help but feel empathic." Nobody does so because said "someone" knew what they were getting themselves into. As for "magnitude of a response" please read the history I will write towards the end of this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmacky
Sure VAIO have problems, all manufacturers do, but the very fact that your laptops only had trouble AFTER the warranty was up says something doesn't it? HP, DELL, Toshiba etc. have to consistently patch drivers in their updates in order to ensure that their "issues" are never brought to light. I'm sure many a hardware enthusiast remembers HP's response in the great Nvidia overheat issue of the 8000 series. HP's response was to increase fan speed, so that they don't get a lot of returns. There's the difference between the companies. One treats its customers like idiots who don't know better, while the other only pushes hardware it knows is built to last.
Also: Anon will support any cause, no matter how inane it sounds.
And for everyone who has followed the thread until now, let me just explain a few historical facts:
GeoHot was trying to enable piracy using Linux on the PS3.
Sony took it away from everyone because of this one individual's behavior (and yet he's respected).
Team Fail0verflow found the key exploit but said they only did it to re-enable Linux (p.s. I know some TF0 members personally, and knew of the exploit before I'd say 99% of people, through them, (I could link you to a post I made on a specific tracker forum about it two days before the speech was even made), and yet I didn't have the moral-deficiency to take it from them).
GeoHot stole that from them, added the metldr keys which could have been (and were easily) dumped previously, and released the exploit as his own only accrediting Team Fail0verflow as peers and not concept distributors. GeoHot then releases a Custom Firmware that locks NPDRM in order to "not enable piracy" - this time he's taking the stance of TF0 in order to prove to himself he's something respectable.
The exploit allowed people to do A LOT more than install Linux.*
Sony sues GeoHot for his behavior.
GeoHot's lawyers decide to argue against the jurisdiction of the court.
Sony decides to ask for any and all information it can in order to prove the jurisdiction (in fact, the collection of IP's is only to prove, with the oversight of the court, that the case should be held in California - let's be realistic, Sony already has the IP's it needs, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool, this is just them showing legal proceedings).
So how could this all have been avoided? If GeoHot stopped being an egotistic little bitch. Basically.
* Think of a PS3 as a computer locked down to only serve one function, like airport terminal computers displaying flight schedules etc. The exploit "opens" up the entire function of the computer, and thus by opening it up, you can even modify the function it was intended to serve (in the airport terminal computer, that becomes modifying schedule display, in the ps3's case that becomes pirating games, installing linux, and allowing the ps3 to function as a complete computer - depending on how much effort one is willing to put in into serving a particular function).
Piracy aside, there is nothing wrong with modifying something you own, and thats the issue here, period. Lets take cars for example. If sony made them, they'd have bolted down hoods. You wouldn't be able to put a chip in them, or any after market parts, because that makes the car do things it wasn't originally designed to. Well guess what? you own the car, you can do what you want with it. Where the line is drawn legally is PSN. If the hacks stay away from piracy and PSN, then sony has no legal grounds to tell you what you can and can't do to a piece of hardware you own. I'm not defending geohot at all, but there is nothing wrong with modifying the PS3 to do things it wasn't designed for as long as it does not involve PSN or playing games IMO. Allowing it to be a full blown computer is a great thing, no reason for it not to be able to do these things.
Of course once you open up a console it does allow a path to piracy, but thats up to people to decide to do that or not do that.
There is nothing wrong with modifying your own console to run your own code. As I mentioned a few posts back, you own it, you can therefore do whatever you want to with it, in my books. What I do have a problem with is distribution, or using such exploits as a social engineering platform to land a job somewhere or get some free hardware from some desperate geeks vying for piracy (GeoHot does this, by the way, just have a look around and you'll find out how he got his first PS3).
I will also cordially disagree with the "that's the issue here" part. The reason this got blown out of proportion is because both parties couldn't let this get low publicity. Sony is trying to scare its buyers into not using their consoles in ways they were not intended, and the hackers are throwing up some fingers in order to just piss Sony for the heck of it. The issue here is that publicity works, otherwise, neither party would've started this battle.
EDIT: As for your car analogy, you still need to get a licensing on the parts you modify your car with, nay? So, no, you still cannot modify your road-legal car into a plane without a few no-you-cannnot-s coming up in your way.
I'm not arguing with you, I just thought it was a rather hilarious oversight.
The core concept of console-production business models is to not to support open-formats. I'm pretty sure most if not all consoles are close-format, because their revenue comes from licensing fees.
Sony would be fools not to include some sort of clause making it illegal to modify their console software.
Yeah. I actually didn't see that one coming. :lol:Quote:
Sony Computer Entertainment America and George Hotz today announced the settlement of the lawsuit ... Hotz consented to a permanent injunction.
Sony is a great firm; I own a Sony Bravia TV and a PS3, and I love them both. I legally buy my games for the PS3 and I don't want to try to hack it.
This! This! You're really on Sony's side of this, as you have presented it? Let's substitute this particular guy with someone you know that parsed out the information in another way meant for private discussion and it exploded to public. Would you feel differently about the response, i.e. is this where you draw the line. As far as I know, he was spreading the information, was he also personally distributing the files needed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Rings