Stephen Hawking: There is no God, and no after-life

It's a pity that the majority of the world doesn't believe this way. There would be less wars, less suffering, and far less fear in the world today.



A nice way to sum it up: "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people who are afraid of the dark."



http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...e-is-no-heaven


Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'

In an exclusive interview with the Guardian, the cosmologist shares his thoughts on death, M-theory, human purpose and our chance existence


A belief that heaven or an afterlife awaits us is a "fairy story" for people afraid of death, Stephen Hawking has said.

In a dismissal that underlines his firm rejection of religious comforts, Britain's most eminent scientist said there was nothing beyond the moment when the brain flickers for the final time.

Hawking, who was diagnosed with motor neurone disease at the age of 21, shares his thoughts on death, human purpose and our chance existence in an exclusive interview with the Guardian today.

The incurable illness was expected to kill Hawking within a few years of its symptoms arising, an outlook that turned the young scientist to Wagner, but ultimately led him to enjoy life more, he has said, despite the cloud hanging over his future.

"I have lived with the prospect of an early death for the last 49 years. I'm not afraid of death, but I'm in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first," he said.

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," he added.

Hawking's latest comments go beyond those laid out in his 2010 book, The Grand Design, in which he asserted that there is no need for a creator to explain the existence of the universe. The book provoked a backlash from some religious leaders, including the chief rabbi, Lord Sacks, who accused Hawking of committing an "elementary fallacy" of logic.

The 69-year-old physicist fell seriously ill after a lecture tour in the US in 2009 and was taken to Addenbrookes hospital in an episode that sparked grave concerns for his health. He has since returned to his Cambridge department as director of research.

The physicist's remarks draw a stark line between the use of God as a metaphor and the belief in an omniscient creator whose hands guide the workings of the cosmos.

In his bestselling 1988 book, A Brief History of Time, Hawking drew on the device so beloved of Einstein, when he described what it would mean for scientists to develop a "theory of everything" – a set of equations that described every particle and force in the entire universe. "It would be the ultimate triumph of human reason – for then we should know the mind of God," he wrote.

The book sold a reported 9 million copies and propelled the physicist to instant stardom. His fame has led to guest roles in The Simpsons, Star Trek: The Next Generation and Red Dwarf. One of his greatest achievements in physics is a theory that describes how black holes emit radiation.

In the interview, Hawking rejected the notion of life beyond death and emphasised the need to fulfil our potential on Earth by making good use of our lives. In answer to a question on how we should live, he said, simply: "We should seek the greatest value of our action."

In answering another, he wrote of the beauty of science, such as the exquisite double helix of DNA in biology, or the fundamental equations of physics.

Hawking responded to questions posed by the Guardian and a reader in advance of a lecture tomorrow at the Google Zeitgeist meeting in London, in which he will address the question: "Why are we here?"

In the talk, he will argue that tiny quantum fluctuations in the very early universe became the seeds from which galaxies, stars, and ultimately human life emerged. "Science predicts that many different kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing. It is a matter of chance which we are in," he said.

Hawking suggests that with modern space-based instruments, such as the European Space Agency's Planck mission, it may be possible to spot ancient fingerprints in the light left over from the earliest moments of the universe and work out how our own place in space came to be.

His talk will focus on M-theory, a broad mathematical framework that encompasses string theory, which is regarded by many physicists as the best hope yet of developing a theory of everything.

M-theory demands a universe with 11 dimensions, including a dimension of time and the three familiar spatial dimensions. The rest are curled up too small for us to see.

Evidence in support of M-theory might also come from the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at Cern, the European particle physics laboratory near Geneva.

One possibility predicted by M-theory is supersymmetry, an idea that says fundamental particles have heavy – and as yet undiscovered – twins, with curious names such as selectrons and squarks.

Confirmation of supersymmetry would be a shot in the arm for M-theory and help physicists explain how each force at work in the universe arose from one super-force at the dawn of time.

Another potential discovery at the LHC, that of the elusive Higgs boson, which is thought to give mass to elementary particles, might be less welcome to Hawking, who has a long-standing bet that the long-sought entity will never be found at the laboratory.

Hawking will join other speakers at the London event, including the chancellor, George Osborne, and the Nobel prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.

Science, truth and beauty: Hawking's answers

What is the value in knowing "Why are we here?"

The universe is governed by science. But science tells us that we can't solve the equations, directly in the abstract. We need to use the effective theory of Darwinian natural selection of those societies most likely to survive. We assign them higher value.

You've said there is no reason to invoke God to light the blue touchpaper. Is our existence all down to luck?

Science predicts that many different kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing. It is a matter of chance which we are in.

So here we are. What should we do?

We should seek the greatest value of our action.

You had a health scare and spent time in hospital in 2009. What, if anything, do you fear about death?

I have lived with the prospect of an early death for the last 49 years. I'm not afraid of death, but I'm in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first. I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.

What are the things you find most beautiful in science?

Science is beautiful when it makes simple explanations of phenomena or connections between different observations. Examples include the double helix in biology, and the fundamental equations of physics."

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Originally Posted by 999969999

It's a pity that the majority of the world doesn't believe this way. There would be less wars, less suffering, and far less fear in the world today.

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Why?

The last person you want to believe is Stephen Hawking. I remember reading one of his theories that when you come out of a black hole everything would be in reverse. i.e. a glass that was broken would reform to its original state and so on. He has retracted a few of his theories, I think he has something else on his mind that detracts him from his scientific studies.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by bigboab

The last person you want to believe is Stephen Hawking.

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Really? the LAST person?

I admit I've had a very limited amount of interactions with you, but I get the impression you have seen more winters than many on this board. Forgive me if I am incorrect, no insult intended. Given this unless you have been living under a rock I would imagine you have met quite a few people who you would trust less.

Hawking has as much chance of being correct as the rest of us unknowing mortals. Belief doesn't make something true, non belief doesn't make something false.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

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Originally Posted by bigboab

The last person you want to believe is Stephen Hawking.

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Really? the LAST person?

I admit I've had a very limited amount of interactions with you, but I get the impression you have seen more winters than many on this board. Forgive me if I am incorrect, no insult intended. Given this unless you have been living under a rock I would imagine you have met quite a few people who you would trust less.

Hawking has as much chance of being correct as the rest of us unknowing mortals. Belief doesn't make something true, non belief doesn't make something false.

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If you took everything that people said literally I'm sure you would have been killed playing in the traffic a long time ago.:)

The point I make is that he has as much chance of being right as someone that says there is a God, heaven etc. I make no judgement on his other theories, but seeing as they are non provable he has as much credibility as anyone who disagrees.

Now if he was a conspiracy nut that comes up with a theories contrary to factual evidence in front of his face then he would be on the list, but as we have quite a collection over here he would need to be uber crazy to get anywhere near the top.

Well if Stephen Hawking isn't enough, allow me to remind everyone that there has never been a god, gods or spirits, all have been stories created by men. Not a single scenario is evidenced on its own merit, but rather hearsay and ownership over the unknown. Each unknown that we've started to understand leaves the domain of spirituality and enters the domain of science. Mystical beliefs are a psychological coping mechanism that most have never been able to truly overcome.

So there you have it, Stephen Hawking and mjmacky agree that there is no afterlife. That on its own is pretty convincing, but you should be the ones questioning your beliefs, otherwise it's pointless to commit to one side or another.

I have transitioned from a hard-hearted, uneducated, atheist kid, to an increasingly educated, agnostic adult. The more I witness things of beauty (such as my children), and look at my life's story, the more I tend to realize that I do not have as many answers as I once believed.

I am finding it increasingly more difficult to believe this universe, with all the amazing, beautiful (and even horrific) things in it are just random, unguided chance.

I have met some truly intelligent professors who have devoted their lives to the study of God, and religion. I find it hard to believe their devotion, and study to be without merit. None of them have directed me towards anything but good. While there have been wars over the topic of religion, there is often a more human-based want/need behind those wars. A world without gods would still have wars over finite resources. A lot of good works, not to mention a substantial basis for laws, and social services have come from religious grounds, as well.

We all tell stories to make sense of our world, and communicate our experiences with others. Religions tell stories that make us look to things greater than ourselves. Personally, I don't find that to be a bad thing.

megabyteme

While most of what you say rings true, that good and bad has done in the name of religion, all it points to is the (f)actual existence of religion.

It does not offer and argument one way or the other towards the existence of God.

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

megabyteme

While most of what you say rings true, that good and bad has done in the name of religion, all it points to is the (f)actual existence of religion.

It does not offer and argument one way or the other towards the existence of God.

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Neither does Hawking.

On the plus side, I can type quicker than he can. :01:

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

Well if Stephen Hawking isn't enough, allow me to remind everyone that there has never been a god, gods or spirits, all have been stories created by men. Not a single scenario is evidenced on its own merit, but rather hearsay and ownership over the unknown. Each unknown that we've started to understand leaves the domain of spirituality and enters the domain of science. Mystical beliefs are a psychological coping mechanism that most have never been able to truly overcome.

So there you have it, Stephen Hawking and mjmacky agree that there is no afterlife. That on its own is pretty convincing, but you should be the ones questioning your beliefs, otherwise it's pointless to commit to one side or another.

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Finally, I agree with you about something.

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Originally Posted by Snee

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Originally Posted by 999969999

It's a pity that the majority of the world doesn't believe this way. There would be less wars, less suffering, and far less fear in the world today.

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Why?

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The operative word is "LESS."

Yes, there will always be squabbles over finite resources.

But, how many wars are going on right now fueled by religious ideas?

Now, how many wars are started in the name of the oblivion of non-existence that comes after death? Can you name any? I can't.

As for fear, think of all the idiots who were afraid that the world was coming to an end today (May 21st, 2011)?

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Originally Posted by 999969999

But, how many wars are going on right now fueled by religious ideas?

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Good question...why don't you tell us?

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Originally Posted by 999969999

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Originally Posted by Snee

Why?

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The operative word is "LESS."

Yes, there will always be squabbles over finite resources.

But, how many wars are going on right now fueled by religious ideas?

Now, how many wars are started in the name of the oblivion of non-existence that comes after death? Can you name any? I can't.

As for fear, think of all the idiots who were afraid that the world was coming to an end today (May 21st, 2011)?

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And you know for a fact that the same people running those wars of yours hadn't started them anyway? Apart from the crusades, I can't really, off the top of my head, think of anything that can't also be attributed to population pressures, or one party wanting someone else's natural resources and so on. Religion usually seems to be more of an excuse than a reason.

And then there's all the people who, for fear of god, fear of hell, or for the promise of an afterlife, behave themselves.

I'm not even sure we'd have the kind of civilisation we have t day if it hadn't been for religion. Before proper government, and the ability to enforce laws, a least you could rely on religion to keep (some) people in line, for better or worse.



As for the topic, no one has the full picture. No evidence of there being a god, gods and/or an afterlife, but no evidence to the contrary either. Making a definite statement either way is seems kind of silly to me, but having either belief should be allowed. The sooner people figure out that, the better

Freedom of Religion- somebody should write that down somewhere so guys like 9's remember it.

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

Freedom of Religion- somebody should write that down somewhere so guys like 9's remember it.

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Freedom of religion means you have the freedom to practice or NOT practice a religion without government interference. It doesn't mean that you are free from criticism or opinion

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

Freedom of Religion- somebody should write that down somewhere so guys like 9's remember it.

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Freedom of religion means you have the freedom to practice or NOT practice a religion without government interference. It doesn't mean that you are free from criticism or opinion

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You are absolutely right. However, this is what 9's had to say:

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It's a pity that the majority of the world doesn't believe this way. There would be less wars, less suffering, and far less fear in the world today.

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Blaming religion for the evils of the world is not very intellectual, nor open minded...

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

You are absolutely right. However, this is what 9's had to say:

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It's a pity that the majority of the world doesn't believe this way. There would be less wars, less suffering, and far less fear in the world today.

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And? He offered an opinion on faith and religion.

How is that statement hindering my or your freedom of religion? What about that statement changes your agreement with me when you said I am "absolutely right"

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

Blaming religion for the evils of the world is not very intellectual, nor open minded...

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He has suggested that the belief in God and heaven/the afterlife has caused many issues and that he thinks there would be less if there were no belief in God. He is doing nothing different than the preacher that suggests the world is better for the belief in God and would we would have less issues if we were all faithful.

I don't see anywhere 9 has said that religion is to blame for every wrong. I do however get the impression that you feel offended that he dared suggest that some bad has been done in the name of religion. If I have that wrong I apologize in advance, but that how you are coming across to me.

Religion has mostly enabled many of these wars, though they aren't the root cause. There's usually a much more concrete reason for going to war (land, resources, political power, business, etc.). Those in power have used religion as a tool in generating support for wars throughout history. If no religion existed, it would be something else. People are easily led through their convictions in their own beliefs. Whether or not this "something else" would be as potent a tool, well that would be left to the imagination.

Edit:
I think no. 2 could be patriotism/nationalism. However, I'm not convinced it has been as effective as religion, because even though it's been used, religion has been heavily tied into it.

We do not have the information to argue about some religions because those same religions burnt all the 'written' information disputing their beliefs. They also burnt the authors for heresy and anyone else who as much as questioned 'The Word'. It also plunged the western world into the dark ages. Without these events the world maybe lost a lot of innovation and would probably be more advanced than it is today. I can't prove this theory, then again you can't disprove it. We do know for fact that millions were killed in South America because they would not accept 'The word of God'. I could go on and on.

No need to remind me that I do that too often.:lol:

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Originally Posted by 999969999

It's a pity that the majority of the world doesn't believe this way. There would be less wars, less suffering, and far less fear in the world today.

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LAWLWUT?

What religion are you talking about? Just because a few extremists hold a Koran in their hostage videos doesn't mean they're practising Islam.

Wars are fueled by avariciousness (as well as an attempt to minimise inflation). For the record I'm not a Muslim, I like to think myself as an agnostic.

Also, if we all think hypothetically for a moment; if there was no religion, the world wouldn't be running wild in the streets. Obviously there would be a set of morals (laws) to be upheld to. eg Thou shalt not kill.

You are also lost in the ways of grammar.

OP, we need to believe in God. I know there were a lot of crimes committed in the name of God throughout the history of the humankind, however, if we hadn't believed in God, there would have been a lot more crimes committed. If there is no God, then everything is permitted; if there is no God, then we are allowed to do things that are immoral. Even philosophers like Kant said that we need God.

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Originally Posted by OlegL

OP, we need to believe in God. I know there were a lot of crimes committed in the name of God throughout the history of the humankind, however, if we hadn't believed in God, there would have been a lot more crimes committed. If there is no God, then everything is permitted; if there is no God, then we are allowed to do things that are immoral. Even philosophers like Kant said that we need God.

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Kant said that we need the concept of God. That is completely different from saying that God exists.:)

Yeah, you're right.

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Originally Posted by bigboab

Kant said that we need the concept of God. That is completely different from saying that God exists.:)

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Thanks for that, I've been arguing that point as a personal theory for years, glad to have a point of reference now. Need to read up on Kant's justification now...

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

Well if Stephen Hawking isn't enough, allow me to remind everyone that there has never been a god, gods or spirits, all have been stories created by men. Not a single scenario is evidenced on its own merit, but rather hearsay and ownership over the unknown. Each unknown that we've started to understand leaves the domain of spirituality and enters the domain of science. Mystical beliefs are a psychological coping mechanism that most have never been able to truly overcome.

So there you have it, Stephen Hawking and mjmacky agree that there is no afterlife. That on its own is pretty convincing, but you should be the ones questioning your beliefs, otherwise it's pointless to commit to one side or another.

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All true.






At least, it's as true as anything and everything else.

As an aside, I used to run a few civil-service-type (state) facilities, you know, flags hanging and such, but God had been quietly deleted from the decor.

As I was operating in rural areas, official traffic was thin; my boss wasn't inclined to hover in any way.

I concocted an experiment whereby I would hang, on the office wall, a nicely-framed copy of the the Ten Commandments; when a customer questioned the efficacy of my display, I would explain my affection for the sentiments expressed therein, proclaiming them words to live by.

On the religious angle, I would claim a rather original ignorance.

The day I hung the Commandments, I received a call from my boss, informing me that the retail end of the business would cease immediately and forthwith, and I should forward a memo of compliance.

No one ever got to see my Commandments.:noes:

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

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Originally Posted by bigboab

Kant said that we need the concept of God. That is completely different from saying that God exists.:)

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Thanks for that, I've been arguing that point as a personal theory for years, glad to have a point of reference now. Need to read up on Kant's justification now...

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Yeah, Bob's pretty smart.

He knows some stuffs.

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Originally Posted by j2k4

I concocted an experiment whereby I would hang, on the office wall, a nicely-framed copy of the the Ten Commandments; when a customer questioned the efficacy of my display, I would explain my affection for the sentiments expressed therein, proclaiming them words to live by.

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How would you grade your efforts thus far?

A++

Could do better, but I do at least realize I'm breaking the odd one or two.

Depends what the meaning of "by" is

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

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Originally Posted by j2k4

I concocted an experiment whereby I would hang, on the office wall, a nicely-framed copy of the the Ten Commandments; when a customer questioned the efficacy of my display, I would explain my affection for the sentiments expressed therein, proclaiming them words to live by.

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How would you grade your efforts thus far?

A++

Could do better, but I do at least realize I'm breaking the odd one or two.

Depends what the meaning of "by" is

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Who is your question for?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Who is your question for?

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:wave:

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Who is your question for?

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:wave:

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Um...