The summer 2011 totally legitimate and like official atheist thread, endorsed too

I made it a Drawing Room thread, this implies that I'll be entirely serious in both the factual statements I present and the opinions I harbor. I, however, won't rid my personality, which is that of an ass. This first post will also be surprisingly short (to my standards).

To the theists: Faith in divine beings or the supernatural doesn't necessarily make your logic on ALL things flawed, but is certainly a warning sign that you are capable of major fallacy. Given that you believe in an entity or some that were presented to you by chance from your surroundings, and that there is absolutely no proof of its/their existence, acknowledge that you have made some major concessions that suspend both reality and logic to maintain your beliefs. Therefore, it's ridiculous when you expect to be taken seriously in a logical debate.

To the atheists: I don't have much to say to you, for not believing in magic, spirits and deities doesn't provide a very unifying characteristic. On the one commonality that does exist, I will say, aren't theists silly?

What inspired this thread?
I think I love this girl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrpT5X8yiG8

Dude, didn't we already discuss it in the other thread? We need the concept of God because according to the great philosopher Kant, if there is no God, then we are allowed to do things that are immoral; we are allowed not to listen to our conscience if there is no God. Therefore, we need God because we need to fear someone. We need God if we don't want relative morality, but want absolute morality.
Edit: oh, and by the way, the girl in the video is really cute.

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Originally Posted by OlegL

We need the concept of God because according to the great philosopher Kant, if there is no God, then we are allowed to do things that are immoral

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Weaker minds need the concept of god to follow what is moral. We already understand what is good/bad in terms of reality as it effects the society. Adherence to it doesn't NEED negative/positive reinforcement. The ethics/morality described in religious texts are static and limited in their form, thus lose relevance over time. There are tons of things in the bible that may have been moral within their context of linear time, but are ridiculous now. Morality is a lot more complex than that.

Here's another video that illustrates my point very interestingly, but doesn't feature a cute intelligent girl with a sexy accent (therefore less likely to grab viewers, though the viewage stats don't agree):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyd6om8IC4M

[QUOTE=mjmacky;3587466]

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Originally Posted by OlegL

Weaker minds need the concept of god to follow what is moral.

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I don't think it has anything to do with anyone being weaker or stronger, and saying so makes you sound like a douche, and that is coming from a fellow atheist.

[QUOTE=cloggy45;3587475]

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

I don't think it has anything to do with anyone being weaker or stronger, and saying so makes you sound like a douche, and that is coming from a fellow atheist.

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Sure it can, if you need the crutch to do the right thing, you're a weaker person. I will give you this though, it doesn't mean that in all cases, e.g. you hate society and have desires to work against it. However, that's outside of the context of the particular point I was making. Also, I'm blunt, honest and have higher expectations of people. Using douche to describe that doesn't stick, ass/dick/cunt or some synonymous term with anatomical sexual organs might fit.

Edit: In reality I'm considered "insensitive"

[QUOTE=mjmacky;3587476]

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Originally Posted by cloggy45

Sure it can, if you need the crutch to do the right thing, you're a weaker person.

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Are you a moral relativist? absolutist?

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

Adherence to it doesn't NEED negative/positive reinforcement.

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It needs reinforcement because human beings are weak more often than not; they can easily stray from a moral path and therefore, the likelihood that they will commit sins will increase. People who are in power are often weak also and it's possible they will also commit sins; therefore, it's not enough to know what is good for a society. Also, the Bible teaches us not to kill, not to steal, and not to do other bad things. The idea that we should not kill or steal is relevant to the modern times, so it's not true that the Bible talks about ridiculous moral concepts.

[QUOTE=cloggy45;3587480]

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

Are you a moral relativist? absolutist?

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Relativist

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Originally Posted by OlegL

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

Adherence to it doesn't NEED negative/positive reinforcement.

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It needs reinforcement because human beings are weak more often than not; they can easily stray from a moral path and therefore, the likelihood that they will commit sins will increase. People who are in power are often weak also and it's possible they will also commit sins; therefore, it's not enough to know what is good for a society. Also, the Bible teaches us not to kill, not to steal, and not to do other bad things. The idea that we should not kill or steal is relevant to the modern times, so it's not true that the Bible talks about ridiculous moral concepts.

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It's a joke to think we would need a bible to "teach" us these things. There's a lot of other garbage in there that you're ignoring. Some of the only validation that book receives is that it's sometimes compatible with what we can agree on, among those examples you have pointed out. You have it the other way around, human beings do the right thing more often than not and the fear of committing sin and being damned has little to do with it. That may sound bizarre coming from me, who has such a low opinion of humanity and wouldn't mind if every society implodes in on themselves. It's when someone is presented with the opportunity to do something that will benefit them at the expense of their neighbors, friends, family, strangers, community, etc. that they begin to struggle. It is at that point that they need the crutch, and I've seen, as well as we've all seen, that the crutch all too often doesn't withstand the weight of that deliberation. Therefore, I don't condemn the notion of religion as a crutch, but at the fact that it's such an ineffective one.

People who come to power are usually the ones that have stepped over others in ways that do not abide by moral and ethical standards, so it's not surprising that they will continue to do so once there. Oleg, you're not bringing much to the discussion. I'd only ask that you give it more sincere thought before presenting the viewpoint, as most of what I've pointed out should have been self-evident.

To all:
Do you feel the concept of filesharing is morally wrong?

Well, I dunno man... I am just talking about what I learned in a philosophy class a long time ago... So, you don't think we need the concept of God?

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Originally Posted by OlegL

So, you don't think we need the concept of God?

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To clarify, this is how I feel:
It may benefit the psychological condition of the individual, but it's detrimental to the function of a community. The personal benefits I attribute to it as a coping mechanism to loss/separation/despair. The general detriment I attribute to concepts of divine forgiveness and favoritism to justify morally heinous behavior and decisions.

My thoughts go in much more detail beyond this, but I think this serves as a good header regarding my stance.

But if you open a sociology book, you will read in it that religious people are often happier than non-religious people.

You need a good upbringing to lead a morally correct life. A good upbringing does not necessitate the inclusion of a religious concept.

@Oleg
That statement meant virtually nothing, I hope you didn't confuse it for making a point

@bigboab
I agree with your second statement thoroughly. Your first one though I feel needs more elaboration. Some of the finer (as compared to broad/course) points of morality concern how actions impact indirectly and over time. A good upbringing may show a child how to pay attention to the extending consequences of their actions. The general broader senses of morality, however, would still be understood by children with terrible upbringings, excepting significant psychological damage and problems with mental development.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

excepting significant psychological damage and problems with mental development.

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Well, I was never a normal child, and now I am not a normal adult. I am definitely developmentally delayed. :) So, it's quite possible I don't understand the general broader senses of morality.

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Originally Posted by OlegL

so it's not true that the Bible talks about ridiculous moral concepts.

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Actually, it IS true. The Bible is the equivalent of a color-inside-the-lines kindergarten book given to a child who is on an assignment to copy one of Monet's paintings.

Don't believe me? This is what I would call a Grade 5 level theological dilemma that the Bible struggles with (I label it as such because I used it against a priest when I was in my 5th grade during one of our arguments). A man is born. The man is baptized. He now has the Holy Spirit within. The man grows to the ripe age of 30. The man converts to Islam. The man decides it was a mistake. The man wants to come back to Christianity. Now here comes the big question: Does the man need a second baptism?

The problem may not be apparent at first, so let me explain. Nowhere in the Bible is a problem of this (gargantuan!) scale tackled. The Ten Commandments do not list it as a Sin, (You Shalt Not Have Any Other Gods Before Me does NOT and will NOT count, as you can easily believe in the same God but follow a different religion, isn't that what Christianity did to the Jews who originally had that very commandment bestowed upon them?). So therefore, if you have not committed a sin by not altering your belief about the monothiestic deity but by changing the route by which you intend to see him/her face to face, then why do you need atonement to go back to your original religion? Even with that argument, assuming that it IS a sin. Does the Holy Spirit leave you every time you sin, or is there somewhere in the Bible where there existed a list of sins that can have God pulled out of you, and a list of sins where God will just switch on your conscience button instead.

My dear foolish pastor, in his urge to try and "save" me, pulled the "Baptism is an enactment, and it symbolizes your unison with the Church once again. It is mandatory upon return to the belief." At which point I laughed, told him he just made up a rule that does not exist in the Bible because he THOUGHT it was so, explained to him that he had thus embraced moral relativism, instead of searching for an absolute answer, and therefore his whole book which tries to prove the opposite was a steaming pile of crap. The question was never about the answer. The question was a way to prove that there is no answer.

I never visited that church again. So tell me, Oleg. What does the Bible say about Euthanizing someone who went into a coma on life support?

The moral concepts in the Bible are ridiculous because they're at a childish level. I can easily figure out that I shouldn't kill people. I've known it since before the first time I read the Bible.

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Originally Posted by Darth Rings

What does the Bible say about Euthanizing someone who went into a coma on life support?

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I honestly don't know how to answer you. I don't have any religious education; however, there is a synagogue not far from my house. I rarely go there, but I might visit it today and ask a rabbi these types of questions.

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Originally Posted by Darth Rings

You Shalt Not Have Any Other Gods Before Me does NOT and will NOT count, as you can easily believe in the same God but follow a different religion, isn't that what Christianity did to the Jews who originally had that very commandment bestowed upon them?

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This might test how well I retained the details, but it's pretty much along these lines. The original context of that commandment, which stems from the polytheistic and unorganized past of Judaism, was that different tribes were worshipping different gods. There was also the instance as they were being driven out of Babylon to unite the different tribes (whereas Yahweh identified himself as many other names as to say, "see I'm that same guy as the other one, we're already buddies"), but I don't remember if these were related. So it can be interpreted this way, not only could the first commandment be addressing other religions altogether, it might also be interpreted as different sects under the same supposed god. Thank goodness it's not real, because this would be one terrible instruction manual.

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Originally Posted by OlegL

I might visit it today and ask a rabbi these types of questions.

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Answering logical fallacies... members of the cults always provide lackluster and unconvincing answers. I'd prefer you to only post a response if it's truly brilliant in addition to be insightful. The only way you'll be able to tell that's the case is if his response sounds completely wild or zany to you, and only then does it have a 50 % chance of being worth posting.

A good upbringing, would require your close associates and family to be morally correct in their actions. A case of do as I say and do and not do as I say only. I am excluding what is in the genes in these statements. I have seen children raised by relatives in a good family regress to the criminal life of their blood parents. I remember an old saying. 'Bad blood is bad blood, no matter how it is dressed'. Thank goodness you can get exceptions.

ffs. One of these again. Always a treat.

Anyone who speaks with absolute certainty about whether there is, or isn't a god, a set of gods, or virtually anything else which is unknowable at this point in time is wasting energy. I don't even know who came up with the initial archetype(s) that spawned most modern religions, so it's impossible to say what the initial parameters were.

Personally, I couldn't even start calculating the odds either way, and from what I know, neither could anyone else. But it's good for pissing people off on the internets. On discussion boards it's usually more fun trolling the atheists, though. Everyone can point out the inconsistencies with modern religions, but they'll generally get pretty worked up the first time they run into the idea that them saying there isn't a god/whatever without proof is them believing something too. But I can and have argued on either side, whichever seemed to be underrepresented, or had the most douchebags present.



However, instinctively I'd say that the more specific the religious belief, the more unlikely it is to turn out to be true.

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Originally Posted by Snee

ffs. One of these again. Always a treat.

Anyone who speaks with absolute certainty about whether there is, or isn't a god, a set of gods, or virtually anything else which is unknowable at this point in time is wasting energy

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Wasting energy implies effort being put forth to a specific goal that can't be achieved. My goal was to start a discussion about the lack of need for religion and pointing out the fallacies in it, so none wasted. Others may come in here to waste their energy, but that applies to any thread really.

One of the other inspirations for me to start this thread at this particular time was a small debate with my brother about it, and it was totally unfulfilling as well as disappointing. I'm testing something at the moment. Can I hear arguments for religion that aren't so transparently ridiculous? I'm becoming bugged by the devout worshipping of those close to me. I'm beginning to lose respect for their opinions if they're capable of such deliberate ignorance. It's harsh, but it's just how I feel.

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Originally Posted by Snee

or had the most douchebags present.

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You never felt that you are the one who's a douchebag?

Oh shut it, you spaz. Go hide in your cave of fail.

mjacky: Fairy nuff.

I can't really in all honesty argue in favour of a specific religion as far as the logical fallacies go. What I can say, looking towards the practical (and I think I've already said this fairly recently), is that religions have shaped our societies, and that any commandments or rules contained within them help to keep some people in line. Historically, I believe they've helped advance our civilisations, by means of enforcing rules.

In a perfect world we're all strong enough, and have a moral compass strong enough to not need a higher meaning/power/whatever to lean on. In reality I believe that some people actually behave themselves better because of religions. Fear of god, or the promise of a reward for behaving well in the afterlife, is something I think works for some people. If it's not true, well, that never stopped some people from believing [I]anything[/I.] Whether the people affected that way outweigh the people who have bad experiences because of religion I can't honestly say, and I don't think anyone else can, because people use it, or hide behind it so you can't really say what's because of religion.

To be honest, this part I'm not very interested in.

I'm pretty much of the opinion that christianity, islam, and most other religions are perfectly harmless, and that if people want them, they should be allowed them, and that generally, they should be left alone to it.

You want posts about how there's too many variables to say anything at all conclusively, I can probably do that if I'm in the mood.

But do we need religions? I've just about exhausted my honest supply of arguments for it. I could wing something for fun, but don't really see the point if everyone knows I'm faking it.

I think that religions could be altogether good, if it weren't for people warping them for their own selfish needs. Kind of like communism.

Sure, I can see that, I don't mind people keeping religion to themselves. I guess that's why I have a bigger problem with Christians & Mormons than Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. The prospect of witnessing is what ends up forcing some beliefs into my radar often enough to find it a nuisance. There's a lot I just needed to vent about, like the hypocrisy of being told to explore the truth further by a christian who only reads from christian sources :pinch:

Oh well, I wish I could make this more controversial but I've already gotten a lot off and this wasn't meant to be much of a troll thread to begin with, so unlike me.

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Originally Posted by OlegL

Dude, didn't we already discuss it in the other thread? We need the concept of God because according to the great philosopher Kant, if there is no God, then we are allowed to do things that are immoral; we are allowed not to listen to our conscience if there is no God. Therefore, we need God because we need to fear someone. We need God if we don't want relative morality, but want absolute morality.

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You may need him; millions of us do not however. If we "need to fear someone", how do you explain how millions of atheists do just fine without... it?

EDIT: Don't answer that. The fact of evolution and the farce that is religion is so blatantly obvious to me. I don't even like having this discussion with people I like, and in real life. I can't be fucked to discuss this again on a forum. :bye:

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Originally Posted by Snee

I think that religions could be altogether good, if it weren't for people warping them for their own selfish needs. Kind of like communism.

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If you are implying that communism could have served a good purpose if people hadn't used it for their own selfish needs, you are wrong. Communism cannot serve a good purpose and can never serve a good purpose. In theory, it's a utopia, and a utopian world cannot exist in practice. In practice, communist countries have always been dictatorships, and there is no way communism and democracy can exist in one country.

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Originally Posted by OlegL

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Originally Posted by Snee

I think that religions could be altogether good, if it weren't for people warping them for their own selfish needs. Kind of like communism.

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If you are implying that communism could have served a good purpose if people hadn't used it for their own selfish needs, you are wrong. Communism cannot serve a good purpose and can never serve a good purpose. In theory, it's a utopia, and a utopian world cannot exist in practice. In practice, communist countries have always been dictatorships, and there is no way communism and democracy can exist in one country.

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Don't confuse utopia with ideology. One of the principles of communism is that all fail or succeed together, it's a response to a dividing gap between the wealthy and the poor. There are more successful cases than the Soviet Union, but those also had an intrinsic major fault

Nice thread chaps by the way.

I have no concept about religion,I have no experience with it or know anybody who practices it.

The thought of wasting time,money and my devotion to something i will never see/hear while i'm conscious is totally alien to my tiny mind.

As a child I was told that there's monsters under my bed and ghost's in the closet,It took me roughly 5 years to figure out this is total bullshit,In this same time period, santa got forgotten about along with the Easter bunny,why haven't humans 2000-4000 years later in the technically and educationally equipped world figured out that the monsters and ghosts along with gods are just fairy tales made to make you do something, otherwise, something bad will happen?

Back in the uneducated bronze age middle east, people were a push over, so the powers that be would tell stories about flying horses,humans coming back from the dead and walking around for 4 days or so after having being nailed to a cross then being stabbed with a spear(longinus) in their heart.
Tell me the last time you saw a dead human walking on the street,or a flying horse,or even this god device everyone puts there whole life into worshiping? being drunk or high doesn't count :-)

I haven't seen or heard this god device,my parents have never said they have,I'm lucky enough to have known my grand parents and they haven't mentioned anything about seeing or hearing it either,there's 3 generations of well educated conscious humans not having any interaction with this all powerful device that lives in the sky.

If you genuinely think or know this god device does for sure exist,ask you parents or grand parents if they have ever seen or heard it,you will be amazed at the answer,which will be no,If you are one of very few humans who have seen or heard this god device,show us the proof,a picture,a recording or better still a miraculous event,If you do get that evidence, I'm on board the ship that noah made. And no that didn't exist either,carnivorous animals on board a ship for 40 days with deer and such like,hilarious.

In the scientific age of man as we are today,we have the most powerful telescopes available to us,where the "hell " is this god or heaven,can you point us in the right direction please? I want to see it, "it" = god and heaven.

Why is this god device a fuzzy faced male? I thought "it" was neither, I got told its because males are the dominant of the sexes.

In one middle eastern book, they don't even let the reader/believer see the picture of the god device they praise,they have "it" coloured out out in white, wtf is that all about, If i buy a book, I don't want it redacted. well disrespectful.

Come on humans,grow the fuck up, If you haven't got a mental malfunction and have been brought up correct,you shouldn't need a fairytale book to guide you through life,use common sense,you will be amazed.

Kick these overpaid fakes (pope/pastors) out of there palaces(churches) sell their planes and palaces,and all there paintings and land they own,give it all away to the genuine sick and poor like real honest to "god" good humans .

Watching on the fence as some old fart from one country says to the occupants of another country that its against the religion to wear a condom is very sad,all those poor babies being born with H.I.V,wheres the religion in that act? Wheres the god device to do the curing then?

GROW THE FUCK UP HUMANS,THERE'S NO GOD,NO PROOF IT'S EXISTED IN THE PAST AND STILL NO PROOF THOUSANDS OF YEARS LATER.

In response to that I have one anecdote

Some years ago, my wife was teaching English in China, and I went to visit her (this was my first time there). The town had a population of just over 600,000 (small Chinese village). We took a trip to the center of town and came across of massive elaborate display of ancient Greek gods and figures, just kind of hanging around doing greek mythology stuff. I was surprised to see this, and in turn started talking to some of the Chinese liaisons we had assisting us with what we needed over there. We basically wanted to know what reason they had all those statues in the center of town and what the people thought about it. What was related to me at that point had a profound effect on my position towards spiritual beliefs and was the responsible catalyst in my transition from agnosticism to atheism (I was still trying to shake of the heavy burden of pentecostal protestantism).

They had no idea what those statues were! So we began to describe what they were, and instead of them explaining to us why there's a Greek mythology themed shopping district in the center of town, they were probing us on what we mean by gods. It was something, that many of them to that point had no exposure to, the concept of deities. It was rather difficult to explain, and even though their English wasn't presenting any major difficulties, the concept seemed too bizarre to fully comprehend. It took me back, and finally revealed a perspective I hadn't experienced before. People who have managed to escape the omnipresent reach of religious prophecy do not have an inherent understanding of god(s). It was that itch somewhere in the nook of my mind that couldn't be scratched any other way, the question of why we were all so familiar with the concept of god. We soak up these ideas when we're younger and forget to reexamine them when we're older.

I don't underplay the difficulty of letting go of one's beliefs, as they've been instilled during our youth. It's the refusal to question it, and acknowledge its lack of self-proclaimed perfection. Oh look at me, I'm rambling again. Well those are my thoughts of self-reflection after reading the post before mine.

Well, macky, you have those arguments with your brother, I have them with my mother. I finally broke her down a few weeks ago and got her to concede to the point that "Neither of us can prove either side without more time."

For the record, darkstate01, my mother insists she saw the virgin Mary. As did hundreds of thousands of others. The event is widely known: http://www.zeitun-eg.org/stmaridx.htm .

Both my parents saw it. All four of my grandparents saw it. All of them insist that while all they saw was a light, they couldn't figure out a shape or face, while in the "pictures" it's clear that there was a face. Some doctoring happened somewhere, but something odd did happen years ago on the top of that church. There are literally hundreds of thousands of eye witness reports, pictures of doves flying in the middle of the night, and a light was seen by a significant part of my immediate family just hovering/wandering.

I keep getting pushed the question "What is it we saw, and don't say lasers because this was in the 60's! Lasers were not that advanced!" To which my answer is always "I don't know. I won't be afraid to admit my ignorance. However, don't just "logically" jump from seeing a light to the existence of a deity based on what you saw and your prerequisite knowledge. If I had told someone that what they saw was a toe of a massive monster in the sky, and they believed it, it does NOT make it true."

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Originally Posted by Darth Rings

For the record, darkstate01, my mother insists she saw the virgin Mary. As did hundreds of thousands of others. The event is widely known: http://www.zeitun-eg.org/stmaridx.htm .

Both my parents saw it. All four of my grandparents saw it.

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Rofl, I am sure people never saw Virgin Mary in Cairo in 1968. Your mother and your grandparents never saw her. I don't know what that event was, but I am sure it didn't have anything to do with Virgin Mary.

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Originally Posted by Skiz

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Originally Posted by OlegL

Dude, didn't we already discuss it in the other thread? We need the concept of God because according to the great philosopher Kant, if there is no God, then we are allowed to do things that are immoral; we are allowed not to listen to our conscience if there is no God. Therefore, we need God because we need to fear someone. We need God if we don't want relative morality, but want absolute morality.

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You may need him; millions of us do not however. If we "need to fear someone", how do you explain how millions of atheists do just fine without... it?

EDIT: Don't answer that. The fact of evolution and the farce that is religion is so blatantly obvious to me. I don't even like having this discussion with people I like, and in real life. I can't be fucked to discuss this again on a forum. :bye:

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I agree. Arguing about religion is a complete waste of time. And on that note, here are some quotes about time that I find interesting...

You live longer once you realize that any time spent being unhappy is wasted. ~Ruth E. Renkl

You may delay, but time will not. ~Benjamin Franklin

Contemplation often makes life miserable. We should act more, think less, and stop watching ourselves live. ~Nicolas de Chamfort

Gather ye rose-buds while ye may;
Old Time is still a-flying;
And this same flower that smiles today,
Tomorrow will be dying.
~Robert Herrick


I try to treat each evening and weekend as little slices of retirement because no one is guaranteed a lengthy one at the end of their career. ~Mike Hammar


The more side roads you stop to explore, the less likely that life will pass you by. ~Robert Brault


If we would only give, just once, the same amount of reflection to what we want to get out of life that we give to the question of what to do with a two weeks' vacation, we would be startled at our false standards and the aimless procession of our busy days. ~Dorothy Canfield Fisher

Every day of our lives we are on the verge of making those slight changes that would make all the difference. ~Mignon McLaughlin, The Neurotic's Notebook, 1960

Each day is an opportunity to travel back into tomorrow's past and change it. ~Robert Brault

If you could travel back in time to the present moment, what would you do differently? ~Robert Brault



Whether it's the best of times or the worst of times, it's the only time we've got. ~Art Buchwald

If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You have another chance. ~Andrea Boydston


Life is always walking up to us and saying, "Come on in, the living's fine," and what do we do? Back off and take its picture. ~Russell Baker


There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want. ~Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes


What would be the use of immortality to a person who cannot use well a half an hour. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

Remember you must die whether you sit about moping all day long or whether on feast days you stretch out in a green field, happy with a bottle of Falernian from your innermost cellar. ~Horace


Men talk of killing time, while time quietly kills them. ~Dion Boucicault

Every day is an opportunity to make a new happy ending. ~Author Unknown

The butterfly counts not months but moments, and has time enough. ~Rabindranath Tagore

The question for each man is not what he would do if he had the means, time, influence, and educational advantages, but what he will do with the things he has. ~Hamilton


Live as you will wish to have lived when you are dying. ~Christian Furchtegott Gellert


Write it on your heart that every day is the best day in the year. No man has learned anything rightly, until he knows that every day is Doomsday. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson


Later never exists. ~Author Unknown


Many people take no care of their money till they come nearly to the end of it, and others do just the same with their time. ~Johann von Goethe

That it will never come again
Is what makes life so sweet.
~Emily Dickinson


Let us endeavor to live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry. ~Mark Twain


Life is what happens to us while we are making other plans. ~Allen Saunders, 1957


The value of moments, when cast up, is immense, if well employed; if thrown away, their loss is irrevocable. ~Lord Chesterfield

Lost time is never found again. ~Benjamin Franklin


The bitterest tears shed over graves are for words left unsaid and for deeds left undone. ~Harriet Beecher Stowe, Little Foxes, 1865

I wasted time, and now doth time waste me. ~William Shakespeare


Only that day dawns to which we are awake. ~Henry David Thoreau


Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop to look around once in a while you could miss it. ~From the movie Ferris Bueller's Day Off

The future has a way of arriving unannounced. ~George F. Will

Time goes, you say? Ah no!
Alas, Time stays, we go.
~Henry Austin Dobson

Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils. ~Hector Berlioz

You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when. You can only decide how you're going to live. Now. ~Joan Baez

The follies which a man regrets most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. ~Helen Rowland

What a folly to dread the thought of throwing away life at once, and yet have no regard to throwing it away by parcels and piecemeal. ~John Howe

The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it. ~Author unknown, sometimes attributed to W.M. Lewis

Each day comes bearing its own gifts. Untie the ribbons. ~Ruth Ann Schabacker

The moment when you first wake up in the morning is the most wonderful of the twenty-four hours. No matter how weary or dreary you may feel, you possess the certainty that, during the day that lies before you, absolutely anything may happen. And the fact that it practically always doesn't, matters not a jot. The possibility is always there. ~Monica Baldwin

We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance. ~Japanese Proverb

Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is the special occasion. ~Author Unknown

Don't be fooled by the calendar. There are only as many days in the year as you make use of. ~Charles Richards

Waiting for the fish to bite or waiting for wind to fly a kite. Or waiting around for Friday night or waiting perhaps for their Uncle Jake or a pot to boil or a better break or a string of pearls or a pair of pants or a wig with curls or another chance. Everyone is just waiting. ~Dr. Seuss

Enjoy yourself. It's later than you think. ~Chinese Proverb

Live every day as if it were your last and then some day you'll be right. ~H.H. "Breaker" Morant

Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive. ~Elbert Hubbard

As you grow older, you'll find the only things you regret are the things you didn't do. ~Zachary Scott

Spend the afternoon. You can't take it with you. ~Annie Dillard

Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today. ~James Dean

Life is not lost by dying; life is lost minute by minute, day by dragging day, in all the thousand small uncaring ways. ~Stephen Vincent Benét

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval. ~George Santayana, "War Shrines," Soliloquies in England and Later Soliloquies, 1922

For a long time it had seemed to me that life was about to begin - real life. But there was always some obstacle in the way. Something to be got through first, some unfinished business, time still to be served, a debt to be paid. Then life would begin. At last it dawned on me that these obstacles were my life. ~Fr. Alfred D'Souza

Be happy while you're living, for you're a long time dead. ~Scottish Proverb


I'm less interested in why we're here. I'm wholly devoted to while we're here. ~Erika Harris

I still find each day too short for all the thoughts I want to think, all the walks I want to take, all the books I want to read and all the friends I want to see. ~John Burroughs

You will never find time for anything. If you want time you must make it. ~Charles Buxton

Some luck lies in not getting what you thought you wanted but getting what you have, which once you have got it you may be smart enough to see is what you would have wanted had you known.
Garrison Keillor
US humorist & radio broadcaster (1942 - )

9's, would you at least clean up your post so that it doesn't look so sloppy? Also, not surprised that you managed to avoid writing your own narrative again.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

9's, would you at least clean up your post so that it doesn't look so sloppy? Also, not surprised that you managed to avoid writing your own narrative again.

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Oh, come on! Can't you at least appreciate that these are some very interesting quotes? Far more interesting than anything I could write on my own at this point. At least I am interesting in learning from these other people, and I'm willing to listen to what they had to say.

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Originally Posted by 999969999

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

9's, would you at least clean up your post so that it doesn't look so sloppy? Also, not surprised that you managed to avoid writing your own narrative again.

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Oh, come on! Can't you at least appreciate that these are some very interesting quotes? Far more interesting than anything I could write on my own at this point. At least I am interesting in learning from these other people, and I'm willing to listen to what they had to say.

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First, I've never really heard you make a point and have no idea if it would be more interesting, so I'll have to take you at your word on that issue.

Your long post has all kinds of awkward line breaks and shifting between single space and double space. It's too sloppy to even bother reading. You'll have to learn sometime (and don't take it at superficial value), but presentation matters.

God is an idea , therefore God exists. Heaven on the other hand is an aspiration so it's reality is a lot less certain.
Btw the church/organized religion is an institution and as so finite and completely separate from the idea of God.

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

God is an idea , therefore God exists. Heaven on the other hand is an aspiration so it's reality is a lot less certain.
Btw the church/organized religion is an institution and as so finite and completely separate from the idea of God.

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I agree that God is an idea, but I typically do not see ideas "existing" unless there is some way to manifest that idea. How does this concept of God take form from that idea?

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

God is an idea , therefore God exists. Heaven on the other hand is an aspiration so it's reality is a lot less certain.
Btw the church/organized religion is an institution and as so finite and completely separate from the idea of God.

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Not so fast. I may define god as an idea, but a theist would define him as their supreme master that likes to play with its human toys. Therefore, you can't say god exists with blanket logic. Heaven and Eden can be very specific or general terms equated with paradise, so I think context matters here too.

OK, so about the church. When I wanted to remain a believer, but had some issues with some of the concepts, I broke away from the church. Mostly because the people there were not just limited in their capacity to address my concerns, but seemed to actively try to sabotage it. I think my move to agnosticism and atheism was delayed due to my ties with church. In terms of relativism, I could find more respect for devout believers who do not subscribe to church visitation than the ones who do. It's just the nuttiest and most fervent believers have that sort of mob mentality, mostly due to reinforcement of synthesized reality among the community they grow at those places.

God exists, you can't prove otherwise. God doesn't exist, you can't prove otherwise. I exist, therefore I am.