Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Before I say, "spend the extra 500 (units of money)" just to sarcastically spite you, for what tasks do you purpose this hypothetical machine?
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
I have a Agility 3 120 and love it. Performance in tests don't mark it among the best SSDs though - IIRC, and without going off to dig out those tests, it's much slower handling compressed files. I wouldn't know the difference though, as I don't benchmark everything I do on a computer.
Have you got an SSD already? Not wishing to teach Granny to suck eggs here, but change Windows settings so all temp files and the pagefile are stored on a HDD as they are constantly being created & deleted which will reduce the lifespan on those little Nandos chicken memory chip things at the heart. I do that with my user folders, too, just in case the system gets attacked by bad karma.
There are tutorials for moving almost everything (appdata folders etc.) to another drive but I didn't bother.
I have suites with large programs (orifice, phoatie shopping etc.) installed on the SSD to make 'em snappy to start up but install other stuff to a HDD to keep planty of space on the SSD for wear levelling.
Of course, If you know about this already and don't need this shit, just call me a patronising arsehole. :)
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
My current PC has alzheimers, I'm not sure whether the problems stem from a past due O/S install or whether it was effected by some brown-outs we had, although some of the glitches seem more hardware than software based. I don't upgrade my own PC systems very often, I find something strong and reliable and tend to stick with it for a while ( I have also learned the lesson of paying the price of being an early adopter ). It is however time for an upgrade although the CPU is still doing what I need: Core2Quad 9650 @3.0Ghz it is the motherboard which is like Elvis leaving the building so the plan is an upgrade.
I have decided to base the upgrade on a new LGA 2011 CPU but was surprised first that they are not supplied with a heatsink/fan and second that watercooling is recommended with these processors.
Never having dealt with watercooling directly I didn't know a great deal about it, but I was interested in the closed loop CPU cooling systems rather than building a complete watercooling system like Cabalo or Detale have built in their PC's. After alot of research into the various alternatives the Antec Kuhler H20 920 became my leading contender because it is a controllable device, it has a USB header which mounts to the motherboard once the software is loaded you have profile control over the fan speed.
So my shopping list is:
Intel Intel i7 3820 Quad CPU @ 3.6 Ghz
Asus P9X79 PRO Intel X79 LGA 2011 Motherboard ATX 8x DDR3 Quad Channel CrossFireX SLI USB3 SATA3 BLUETOOTH
G.Skill Ripjaws Z 16GB (4X4) DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Ultra Performance Desktop Memory 240-Pin DDR3
ANTEC KUHLER H20 920 Liquid Cooling System
OCZ Agility3 120GB SATA3 2.5" Solid State HDD (SSD) (Max Write up to 500MB/s), SandForce 2281 Controller
I have a CoolerMaster CM690II Case, ACBel 700w PSU (will change that very soon), various SATA drives, SATA DVD writer and an EVGA 560GTX graphics card, so from this partial build I can upgrade as I need later on.
Although I have done quite a bit of research any questions/suggestions would be appreciated, and of course the build will be featured in the post your pc pics thread.
Why not get a revodrive while you're at it?
Also, I'm sure that mobo is fine, but if I was sorting put a new computer now, I'd get the latest (Asus) Rampage or (EVGA) Classified. I realise there are budgetary constraints, tho.
I'm sure you don't actually need it, but dude, those are awesome. And my Rampage II Extreme has been fantastic.
Are you planning on running win 7 home premium on it? Else I'd pick up another 16 gigs of Ram at once. In my experience it's usually best to get all the RAM you're gonna use for a specific mobo and be done with it (until you decide you want to double up and switch out all of it, anyhow). Better chances of memtest not failing than if you put in two different batches.
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
My current PC has alzheimers, I'm not sure whether the problems stem from a past due O/S install or whether it was effected by some brown-outs we had, although some of the glitches seem more hardware than software based. I don't upgrade my own PC systems very often, I find something strong and reliable and tend to stick with it for a while ( I have also learned the lesson of paying the price of being an early adopter ). It is however time for an upgrade although the CPU is still doing what I need: Core2Quad 9650 @3.0Ghz it is the motherboard which is like Elvis leaving the building so the plan is an upgrade.
I have decided to base the upgrade on a new LGA 2011 CPU but was surprised first that they are not supplied with a heatsink/fan and second that watercooling is recommended with these processors.
Never having dealt with watercooling directly I didn't know a great deal about it, but I was interested in the closed loop CPU cooling systems rather than building a complete watercooling system like Cabalo or Detale have built in their PC's. After alot of research into the various alternatives the Antec Kuhler H20 920 became my leading contender because it is a controllable device, it has a USB header which mounts to the motherboard once the software is loaded you have profile control over the fan speed.
So my shopping list is:
Intel Intel i7 3820 Quad CPU @ 3.6 Ghz
Asus P9X79 PRO Intel X79 LGA 2011 Motherboard ATX 8x DDR3 Quad Channel CrossFireX SLI USB3 SATA3 BLUETOOTH
G.Skill Ripjaws Z 16GB (4X4) DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900) Ultra Performance Desktop Memory 240-Pin DDR3
ANTEC KUHLER H20 920 Liquid Cooling System
OCZ Agility3 120GB SATA3 2.5" Solid State HDD (SSD) (Max Write up to 500MB/s), SandForce 2281 Controller
I have a CoolerMaster CM690II Case, ACBel 700w PSU (will change that very soon), various SATA drives, SATA DVD writer and an EVGA 560GTX graphics card, so from this partial build I can upgrade as I need later on.
Although I have done quite a bit of research any questions/suggestions would be appreciated, and of course the build will be featured in the post your pc pics thread.
Why not get a revodrive while you're at it?
Also, I'm sure that mobo is fine, but if I was sorting put a new computer now, I'd get the latest (Asus) Rampage or (EVGA) Classified. I realise there are budgetary constraints, tho.
I'm sure you don't actually need it, but dude, those are awesome. And my Rampage II Extreme has been fantastic.
Are you planning on running win 7 home premium on it? Else I'd pick up another 16 gigs of Ram at once. In my experience it's usually best to get all the RAM you're gonna use for a specific mobo and be done with it (until you decide you want to double up and switch out all of it, anyhow). Better chances of memtest not failing than if you put in two different batches.
I looked seriously at the EVGA contenders as well as ASUS Motherboards, bang for my buck came down to the Gigabyte GA-X79-UD5 or the ASUS motherboard that I chose, largely because it has a better BIOS. I did start out with a set budget, I stretched it more than once so this is where I am right now. Good point though about the 32GB RAM because my intention was to upgrade to 32GB later on.
As to the Revodrive I had considered it but X79 is designed with Intel's SSD caching with this enabled, the SSD becomes a highspeed cache for commonly used files accessed from the SATA drives, this speeds up drive speed times by 3 overall and is 2 times faster than a revo drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewie
I have a Agility 3 120 and love it. Performance in tests don't mark it among the best SSDs though - IIRC, and without going off to dig out those tests, it's much slower handling compressed files. I wouldn't know the difference though, as I don't benchmark everything I do on a computer.
Have you got an SSD already? Not wishing to teach Granny to suck eggs here, but change Windows settings so all temp files and the pagefile are stored on a HDD as they are constantly being created & deleted which will reduce the lifespan on those little Nandos chicken memory chip things at the heart. I do that with my user folders, too, just in case the system gets attacked by bad karma.
There are tutorials for moving almost everything (appdata folders etc.) to another drive but I didn't bother.
I have suites with large programs (orifice, phoatie shopping etc.) installed on the SSD to make 'em snappy to start up but install other stuff to a HDD to keep planty of space on the SSD for wear levelling.
Of course, If you know about this already and don't need this shit, just call me a patronising arsehole. :)
As I explained to Snee I plan to take advantage of Intel's SSD Caching which is similar to how a Revo or hybrid drive works. This caches the most commonly used files for access via the SSD, but makes access to files dynamic based on usage. Well, we'll see, the theory is good, if the practice sucks, I can convert the drive to a standard setup, but I like the concept.
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
As to the Revodrive I had considered it but X79 is designed with Intel's SSD caching with this enabled, the SSD becomes a highspeed cache for commonly used files accessed from the SATA drives, this speeds up drive speed times by 3 overall and is 2 times faster than a revo drive.
I meant you should get both :unsure:
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snee
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
As to the Revodrive I had considered it but X79 is designed with Intel's SSD caching with this enabled, the SSD becomes a highspeed cache for commonly used files accessed from the SATA drives, this speeds up drive speed times by 3 overall and is 2 times faster than a revo drive.
I meant you should get both :unsure:
I will if my lottery tickets win this weekend, fingers crossed. :blink:
Seriously, I figured this was the best bang for my buck, and something I can easily add to i.e. upgrade the graphics card etc later on. This board is designed for PCIe-3 so it gives me upgradability there as well and there are 4 SATA3 ports onboard. Also the 3820 CPU is the baseline CPU in the LGA 2011 range if I wish later on I can upgrade to one of the Hexcore processors, it was really the board that was the important component in the build in terms of getting the features right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjmacky
Before I say, "spend the extra 500 (units of money)" just to sarcastically spite you, for what tasks do you purpose this hypothetical machine?
The cost of these components is actually similar or slightly more than a similarly spec'ed 2600k i7 based machine while giving a great deal more expandability (8x DDR3 slots 4X SATA3 4X SATA2 slots PCIe-3 and the upgrade path to a Hexcore processor ) so apart from the extra expense of the watercooling system it seems a logical expenditure to me in that I am future proofing myself as much as I can in within a rapidly changing technology framework.
Having been a system builder in the past I still retain a 15% discount with a local supplier which is also handy.
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
I am future proofing myself as much as I can in within a rapidly changing technology framework.
Yeah but I hope it's not just to play Mahjong, watch youtube vids and browse the web. I meant what do you actually do that seems to call for anything beyond a dual core?
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjmacky
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
I am future proofing myself as much as I can in within a rapidly changing technology framework.
Yeah but I hope it's not just to play Mahjong, watch youtube vids and browse the web. I meant what do you actually do that seems to call for anything beyond a dual core?
Mainly the Mahjong actually :yup:
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Actually Snee here is a chart comparison of the feature set for all of the Asus X79 based boards to give a comparison of the features if you are interested:
http://i.imgur.com/xkbD6.jpg
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Chart lacks UEFI BIOS info. I've been seriously craving this advancement for the past year, does anyone have one yet? I'm like dying for feedback about this particular feature on the new boards. At least from people I care to listen to take time to read.
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjmacky
Chart lacks UEFI BIOS info. I've been seriously craving this advancement for the past year, does anyone have one yet? I'm like dying for feedback about this particular feature on the new boards. At least from people I care to listen to take time to read.
I ordered the hardware on Tuesday but today (Wednesday) is a national holiday (ANZAC Day) so the parts are still in transit.
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
I have an Asus M5A99X-EVO. It's a very strange feeling the first time you look at a UEFI BIOS page after so long with the two standard layouts (sorry Dell, yours don't count).
There are far too many options for me to play around with and SNAFU the setup so I just concern myself with the basics. :)
My only gripe is the speed with which the mouse moves; mine is only a Trust Laser not some fancy Death Adder gamer thingy, but it's so bloody skittery in UEFI that I find it much easier using the keyboard.
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chewie
I have an Asus M5A99X-EVO. It's a very strange feeling the first time you look at a UEFI BIOS page after so long with the two standard layouts (sorry Dell, yours don't count).
There are far too many options for me to play around with and SNAFU the setup so I just concern myself with the basics. :)
My only gripe is the speed with which the mouse moves; mine is only a Trust Laser not some fancy Death Adder gamer thingy, but it's so bloody skittery in UEFI that I find it much easier using the keyboard.
I feel the same way about ExpressGate, a preOS launch Asus feature with a quick loading ultra light version of Linux. Something about driver implementation with those firmware type loads, mouse movement is just awful.
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
So the hardware is here, and at the time I purchased it, I said to the little chinese gentlemen with the little smiley faces are you sure the Antec cooler comes with the mountings for the LGA 2011 processors? The grins got wider, they went away and came back and nodded. Now I KNOW there is an adaptor kit out there for the 2011 CPU's, I SPECIFICALLY asked them because I had done the research but with the fervent nodding and grinning I thought maybe there was a new version that included the 2011 adaptor by default.
Well no actually, even exlaining patiently and clearly, short of getting out a box of crayons and paper and drawing a picture for them, they still fucked it up! Saints preserve me from stupid people, and no, making your eyes bigger and grinning at me doesn't help. I have ordered the adaptor kit through another company since the monkey's pissed me off.
So this build is going to be delayed for a while yet.
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
So the tale of woe, is not over, not by a long chalk. You would think in this modern day that part of the quality control process for passing of a motherboard would involve a laser alignment shirley? Because the one I received had spina bifida to the maxx. Yes it looked it pretty, no it wasn't going to function correctly because it was so badly warped in one corner that one of the USB mounts was never going to line up with the I/O plate, rendering four USB ports unusable, nice one guys!
Since the board was brand new it was covered under a straight D.O.A. return, but surprise, surprise there is no stock on hand, not even at the logistics center. Lots of excited phone calls later I get the news, free weeks, free weeks till that model of motherboard will arrive, but they can upgrade me to the deluxe model for $200 more. Lots of little yellow grinning faces at this point. :swear:
So I said no I'll go away and do some research thanks thinking that if the only way to resolve this is to pay $200 more then I'll just get the money back and wait free weeks or go somewhere else, but what my little yellow friends didn't advise me of is that the X-79 Sabretooth is only $55 more, a much more palatable option, they have bucket loads of the things in stock, they are actually designed to military standards to resist sand and dust and all sorts or strange stuff so O.K. I'll have one of those thanks.
It's here now, so let building commence, hopefully the next thing about this build will the pictures of the assembled machine, not a continuing blog about my little yellow friends.
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
The build went well actually, surprisingly easy. Tricks for young players: You MUST remove the plastic retention cover from the LGA 2011 socket vertically, apparently customers have rocked the retention cover from side to side and bent the pins (woops!). Also another trick I had previously installed two other Antec 920 Liquid Coolers one on an Intel LGA 1155 machine and one on an AMD AM3 machine they both used a (different) backplate to mount the cooler to. Not so with the LGA 2011, the adaptor kit you get comprising the mounting and locking ring and the four locking screws (that have a different sized thread) are the complete mount for the cooler for an LGA 2011 installation making it extremely simple to install.
Re the Antec Kuhler H2o 920 Liquid Cooler itself, the three machines I have installed this cooler into are all used fairly heavily. The LGA 1155 is an i7 2600k gaming machine with an EVGA twin GTX 560 TI graphics card running Skyrim and Diablo 3 on Dual 24" monitors so it gets pushed hard with the cooler in operation the temps are 28-32 degrees celsius even under full load.
The AMD machine is an 880GM chipset board with a 1090T Hexcore CPU (not exactly a thermally efficient CPU at 130W) with an EVGA GTX 560 graphics card on a 27" monitor also running Diablo 3 as the favorite game at the moment, although of course WoW and Skyrim are in there as well. The cooler is keeping this machine running at 37-41 degrees celsius. ( I have quoted both of these temperature readings using the quiet temperature profile, the fans are capable of far faster speed, but at the expense of noise).
I haven't really built the software up on the LGA 2011 based PC yet so I can only quote the basic running, under a minimum load it is running on average approximately 28 degrees celsius once again this is using the silent profile.
I should explain the profiles further.
The Antec 920 like other coolers has fans which can be controlled by PWM. In the case of the H2o 920 it has 2 fans in a push-pull configuration with the radiator in between. The difference though with this liquid cooler is that it also has a USB connector which mounts to an internal USB header on the motherboard. When you install the included software, it provides you with a monitoring program that gives you a visual indication of the liquid temperature, sound level,fan speed and pump speed. There are also three profiles to choose from silent, extreme (i.e. full speed) and custom where you get to choose the parameters . there are also some graphs to chart the parameters and you can change the color of the RGB LED that says Antec on the CPU mount itself.
http://i.imgur.com/g56I2.png
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjmacky
Chart lacks UEFI BIOS info. I've been seriously craving this advancement for the past year, does anyone have one yet? I'm like dying for feedback about this particular feature on the new boards. At least from people I care to listen to take time to read.
So to answer your question (from someone you hopefully care to listen to :whistling ) the UEFI BIOS is responsive with my mouse (Microsoft Laser 7000) and has a far faster boot time than a standard BIOS. The BIOS has two modes, it is mouse driven GUI and has a basic (idiot) mode with pretty pictures and large icons to switch between different modes in the idiot basic mode. Advanced mode offers the more traditional control layout but takes a bit of getting used to since you have to navigate trough nested options. Once you are used to this it is a quicker way to use a BIOS to configure your computer, and is a big advance over the older BIOS, an obvious caveat would be the mouse though, if it is not recognised by the system or poorly recognised things would be interesting.
Re: Speaking of Watercooling
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjmacky
Chart lacks UEFI BIOS info. I've been seriously craving this advancement for the past year, does anyone have one yet? I'm like dying for feedback about this particular feature on the new boards. At least from people I care to listen to take time to read.
So to answer your question (from someone you hopefully care to listen to :whistling ) the UEFI BIOS is responsive with my mouse (Microsoft Laser 7000) and has a far faster boot time than a standard BIOS. The BIOS has two modes, it is mouse driven GUI and has a basic (idiot) mode with pretty pictures and large icons to switch between different modes in the
idiot basic mode. Advanced mode offers the more traditional control layout but takes a bit of getting used to since you have to navigate trough nested options. Once you are used to this it is a quicker way to use a BIOS to configure your computer, and is a big advance over the older BIOS, an obvious caveat would be the mouse though, if it is not recognised by the system or poorly recognised things would be interesting.
Now I've got a big fucking itch to scratch.
