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New build and the inevitable problems
I decided to get a new case for the PC. Although I still think it's an eye pleasing case, my original Cooler Master 690 was starting to show its age. I decided on the Fractal R4 and started looking around the web at how people were doing their cable management for that particular case. I really started to enjoy some of the builds I saw, and as it tends to happen, that snowballed into building an entirely new PC. I've been accruing parts for about 3 weeks now as I find deals and such following the Black Friday/Cyber Monday overhyped nonsense. By a couple of days ago everything was here.
-Fractal R4 (Titanium w/ window)
-Asus Sabertooth Z87
-Intel i7-4770K
-Corsair H100i cooler
-32GB DDR3 2400 1866 GSkill Sniper Gaming Series
-EVGA GTX760 Superclocked
-Samsung SSD EVO 500GB
-Corsair AX760 fully modular PSU
-Windows 8.1 Pro-64
During the build, I like to piece together all the items that will go with the motherboard to make sure things generally fit ok. After doing that I started putting them all in the case and screwing things down. Onboard USB. Check. 24pin ATX. Check. Etc... During my quick survey, I just couldn't find the 4pin 12V ATX port for the CPU power. No worries, I'll find it once I get the PSU installed and start running cables. I forgot all about it after that. Big mistake. Once I got to that point, I already had the H100i cooler installed which was a pain to do by the way. It's really a two person job. I had to get blocks to hold the cooler up and clips for the hoses while I held the radiator in one hand and put in screws with the other. Not fun. Anyhow, it is only after I have this installed that I realize why I didn't see the 4pin ATX plug on my initial survey... it's an 8-pin plug on this board and I just didn't notice... and it's now barely visible through a small space behind the coolers radiator. There's simply no way to get that plugged in without taking the entire radiator back off. OK, let's get this over with. Hopefully this is the mistake/glitch for this build and the rest is smooth sailing. I get C clamps out to hold the radiator this time and all goes better than expected. Done.
Onward, I initially purchased the same memory as listed above but at a frequency of 2400 even though the Sabertooth Z87 is only officially able to run 1333/1600/1866. My thought process was this - the memory and the Z87 both have XMP capability so it shouldn't really matter. The board will adjust appropriately. I was still hesitant until I read a review right on the memory page that stated a guy had the same board and it worked. That reassurance combined with the RAM being on sale at about $50 cheaper than its 1866 counterpart, I felt pretty good about it. A week goes by and the RAM sticks arrive along with some other final parts.
I get the entire build assembled, cross my fingers, and hit the power button. Lights come on, fans are spinning... nothing on the screens. Shit. After some various tinkering, I remove all the RAM except 1 stick and reboot. BIOS. Success. I install Windows 8 via USB. Power down. Insert second RAM stick. Boot. Success. Both detected. Fist pump. Repeat with third stick. Success. Repeat with fourth stick. Fail. "MemOK!" light comes on denoting a problem. I follow the MemOK! process of letting it fix the problem but it is unable. After that, I cannot get any stick(s) of RAM to function in any combination. I reset CMOS and restart the process. Same thing. I am also getting beep code for RAM failure. (This is described in a few brief sentences here, but it is a day of experimenting in real time) All I can think of is that RAM doesn't play nice with that board. It may very well be possible to get it working but I couldn't figure it out in a full day of research. Out of ideas, I RMA the memory and order the 1866 frequency sticks that are now on sale for $40 less than the first 2400 set. They should work just fine when they arrive on Monday and with any luck I'll have a functioning build. (also not worried about having 1866 as with 32GB I'll have plenty to go 'round)
Cable management. I've been really irritated with my last couple of builds, this one included. Why the hell doesn't a modular power supply by Corsair (and others) come with a simpler set of cables?? Especially when you go the extra step and purchase the sleeved cables. Example: I have an SSD mounted on the back of the motherboard panel. How does it make sense that the only way to connect it with the provided cables it to run one of those multi sata connection cables with 4 heads? And for the power button up front, it needs a single Molex connection. One. The only Molex cables provided by Corsair? A bulky cable with again, a 4-head Molex connection. Four! Between those two cables, cable management has been a nightmare. I really don't want to take the back cover off of that case again as I'm not sure I'll get it back on, but I need to fix some cables so I'll have to. Something must be done. I'm giving serious consideration to buying custom cables from ModDIY. If I go to trouble of doing that though, I'll probably go all the way and sleeve the front i/o cables as well. No idea how to tackle that...
I shall return with updates as time allows. Pics to follow at some point.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
New memory was delivered this morning. I was optimistic that I could drop it in and power the new build up but I wasn't that lucky. I popped the new RAM in, pressed power, and booted to BIOS. I was happy to see the new RAM all visible in BIOS. I restarted, but this time the build went straight to BIOS without me hammering the F2 button. Hmm, not a good sign. Why didn't the SSD with a fresh Windows install boot? Since I was already in BIOS, I did some digging. I don't mind saying I'm a little more familiar with this new BIOS than I should be this early on. Anyhow, everything in my boot order was set up properly. I try rebooting again for the heck of it. Same thing. Straight to BIOS. I repeat this numerous times while tinkering with various fast boot and hardware boot configuration options to see if anything would make a difference. Nothing does. I am stumped. I am not happy.
I'm not pointing any fingers at the RAM this time around. My beep code tells me everything on the hardware side is OK and the MemOK! light is not on. I have no reason to suspect the RAM. I shut it all down and open the rig up to start looking for a possible disconnected SATA cable. Anything that might give an explanation. I find everything in it's proper place. Maybe one of the cables has gone bad? I swap out both SATA cables and try again. No change. I'm starting to suspect that maybe my SSD has died, but since BIOS has seen it all along, I'm not ready to go down that road yet. I consider attempting to install Windows from a USB again just to see if it's working, but I just did that when I assembled everything. It has a fresh install. The only other things I've loaded were drivers and such from the motherboard disk, Chrome, and BF3 (which takes 8 damn hours to download plus another 5 for updates). I don't want to do all that again. I grab a spare SSD, plug it in and install Windows. Reboot. Everything works fine. OK, now I know that either the SSD is bad or somehow the MBR got screwed up. I put the new SSD back in and try reinstalling Windows. It's reading it....good so far. I complete the install and everything boots up perfectly.
How in the heck would my MBR have gotten borked? :blink:
Here's a quick photo of the basic build. Have done very little cable mgmt yet.
Other things I plan/might plan to do:
- Sleeving the default wiring as well as the 24pin ATX cable to match the others. I may decide to do those in a dark gray instead of black. I initially wanted everything black but it just doesn't give much depth.
- I'd also like to put the two HDD's up into the 5.25 bays and remove the bottom cage altogether.
- Might remove stickers from the power supply.
- If I decide to go with some gray cables, I might paint the expansion slot covers to match.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Looks awesome, you just need another gtx760 and a better operating system.;)
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
The EVGA GTX760 SC I have now runs every new game I have on the absolute highest settings, so having a second one would do me absolutely nothing more. For example, BF4 runs at 1080/60fps/Ultra settings and does so flawlessly.
Changed the OS in the original post to Windows 8.1 Pro 64. I had a bootleg Pre-activated version of 8 but I just bought a legit key for 8.1 Pro on Reddit for $25. :happy:
I don't mind 8.1 too much. There's definitely some stupidity that I stumble upon now and again but for the most part I've adapted.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Updated pics:
Speccy doesn't reflect overclocks but it's running smoothly at 4.5GHz. Idle stays within 19-25C. The warmest I've been able to get it in the past couple of hours is 61C. I'd say the H100i is holding up very well considering the 4770K is known to run a bit hot.
http://i.imgur.com/I6HTJXT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FxGAXrJ.jpg
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Btw if you haven't already you should check this out, especially since you have plenty of RAM to go around: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7173/s...odels-tested/5
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
I'm thinking about building a new PC too as I'm starting to get some of those annoying "Won't run on your computer" notices.
As I basically only use the computer's power for games from what I've read probably going with the i5 7670k and less RAM and using the savings for a better video card is probably the way to go.
Also undecided on whether to reuse my CM HAF X.
Thinking about the Cosmos 2 or being really ghey and the CM Level 10. Not reusing it is an incredible waste but it's got a burnt out USB port on the front that bothers the fuck out of me.
Or maybe just fuck it entirely as I don't even really like gaming anymore and spend the money on poetry books and protein isolate.
Any advice that is not coming from megabyteme would be appreciated.
PS Money is basically not a factor but wasting it still is.:)
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
http://www.cmstore-usa.com/haf-912-i...l-oem-package/
The Asus r9 290x looks nice. Just hard to get with the fucking lightcoin miners hoarding them.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
What is your current PC setup Idol?
I ask this in terms of what can be re used in another build, and where we can go in terms of recommendations, i.e. do you have an SSD, what RAM speed, size, etc. Preferences for Graphics card i.e. NVidia or AMD.
As for the CM HAF case I have the same one and although I haven't killed a USB port on it, the thing is a dust magnet which is really getting on my pec's, that and a graphics card upgrade are in the forseeable future for me.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pootystomp
Thanks man and after exchange rate ,custom duties,taxes and delivery charges the $6.99 part only cost me 24 bucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
What is your current PC setup Idol?
It's all in my profile except the PS is now a Thermaltake 775W - see shorted out USB port.
So basically as I see it,not knowing anything, I will need minimally a new CPU,motherboard,memory and GPU .
I have a fancy Seasonic Platinum PS and a bunch of decent HDDs that are currently just gathering dust and the case which as you astutely stated is also gathering dust.
Probably in a new build would like at least one SSD ,(like skiz ) a Corsair H100i cooler and a blu-ray burner.
As for whether AMD or nVidia "they" say there are pluses and minuses to each and some games run better on one and some on the other.
Yeah nerds are aggravating like that.Which is why I try to beat them up up whenever possible.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
If money really isn't a factor you can go balls out and buy whatever the fuck you want and really can't go wrong. Most of my advice will probably be with value and noise in consideration, which you may take with a grain of salt if you dont care about those as much for certain parts/price points.
A CPU will make a marginal difference in terms of gaming performance. It will make a bigger difference in RTS's like Starcraft 2 and Civ 5, but then again those games aren't resource intensive enough that you need the best cpu anyway. A low end i5 will basically give very similar performance to the top end processor at a much cheaper price. Get the K version of the processor if you plan on overclocking.
Motherboard also makes very little difference in terms of gaming performance unless you plan on overclocking. If you aren't overclocking, getting a cheap one is perfectly fine.
Memory, I would just shoot for 16 GB, which will be plenty for pretty much anything in the forseeable future. Memory speeds are basically irrelevant, it's not worth paying a premium for faster memory. As you said, that's money much better spent into a better GPU.
In terms of graphics cards, AMD cards are currently much better value although they tend to sound like jet engines. Nvidia cards are quieter but have a little less bang for your buck, so it's up to you on that front. I would also recommend NOT going the SLI or Crossfire route unless money is REALLY no object and you're running like three monitors in eyefinity or something. It's complete overkill for current games, incredibly money inefficient, and generates a lot of heat and noise. It also can have the occasional compatibility issue and microstuttering can occur as well.
The Samsung EVO SSD's that Skiz uses are very solid. Follow the link I posted earlier the the thread to get even more performance out of it.
I personally find water coolers to be completely unnecessary unless again, you are planning on overclocking. A solid air cooler will almost always be quieter (no, liquid doesn't mean it's silent, there's still the pump/radiator) and will perform better at lower price points and with a better cooling/noise ratio. Only if you're investing a lot into a good water cooling will it out perform air cooling, and again, that's only if you plan on overclocking. No offence to Skiz, but the Corsair H series is not past that point.
PSU's and cases are really up to you. If you're find with the one's you have, re use them. Otherwise, buy another. The Fractal R4 Skiz uses is a very solid case, and I've heard a lot of good things about it. I generally feel like there isn't a really a big difference between PSU's other than noise. Getting a "platinum" rated PSU will in general cause it to make less noise since it's a lot more efficient and doesn't generate as much heat. Therefore the fans don't have to ramp up as much (and actually most platinum PSU's are "hybrid", in the sense that it'll stay passively cooled with the fan off until a certain load) and the PSU is a lot more quiet. Up to you whether that's worth the price premium.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
You know way too much about stuff that doesn't involve getting laid or getting high for someone your age.
I suggest you burn whatever tech stuff you have and invest in a red sports car and considering your recent posts also probably a sense of humour.
Thank me later when you are destitute but happy.
Also,grasshopper since I'm vain and shallow and stuff I was really more interested in what looked cool as opposed to what actually..... worked.:mellow:
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Go get an alienware then or something. I know you find flashing lights to be absolutely mesmerizing.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Does this Alienware company have any models that involve inset diamonds or gold inlay or better yet give a shock if I attempt to play RTS games?
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Not to disagree with Rart, no that's not true, I'm going to disagree with him on a couple of points based on personal knowledge. If you have the money there is a big performance advantage to be had in 32GB of (fast) RAM plus an SSD, the speed difference on the same system over 16GB with this upgrade is noticeable.
If you are not going to overclock most of the debate about aftermarket coolers water or air becomes invalid, although once again I am going to disagree with him on the noise level from a watercooled system. I have an Antec H2o 920 cooler which is a push pull design (2 fans) with a radiator between. The fans turn at 800 rpm and are barely audible. This cooler is connected to the motherboard via USB as well and has an app to control it so that you can monitor various functions including fan speed and and sound pressure, it is FAR quieter than other air coolers I have like the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 on another system.
I build custom systems and have installed alot of the high end air coolers and prefer the watercooled solution myself. They are now alot cheaper and price competitive with aftermarket air coolers.
I agree about costs of CPU's and motherboards, if you are not going to overclock you do not need a high end motherboard, and the difference between an i5 and an i7 processor is geeky and actually not used by alot of software anyway, certainly not worth the extra outlay.
Bang for your buck the graphics weapon of choice at the moment is the NVidia 760, now I know the AMD fanboi's will be all over that but in the hardware tests and bang for your buck it is the best graphics card out there, I prefer EVGA but they aren't the cheapest of suppliers.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
Not to disagree with Rart, no that's not true, I'm going to disagree with him on a couple of points based on personal knowledge.
Kissing girls isn't icky?
Having children does not in fact make your life better?
Don't let their close resemblance to domesticated dogs fool you,dingoes don't want to be petted?
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I think this thread would be better if someone went out of their way to offend skiz. It's tricky though since he shares no convictions. However it's not impossible, for he clearly is just hiding them.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
If you have the money there is a big performance advantage to be had in 32GB of (fast) RAM plus an SSD, the speed difference on the same system over 16GB with this upgrade is noticeable.
I would like the technical reasoning behind this. How would there be a noticeable difference when most of the time (if ever, as far as I can see) 16GB, yet alone the 32GB, would not be fully put to use?
I am not making an argument here, Art, but hope to learn something.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
If you have the money there is a big performance advantage to be had in 32GB of (fast) RAM plus an SSD, the speed difference on the same system over 16GB with this upgrade is noticeable.
I'm sorry, while the other points you bring up could come down to a difference of opinion, I'm going to have to completely disagree with you on this one. Unless you're trying to make a RAM disk or something, there is no practicable difference in installing more RAM that you're not going to use anyway. I rarely go over 4 GB, let alone 8 or 16 GB. Maybe pre-Hynix fire when RAM was dirt cheap you could spend money on more RAM for the heck of it, but at current prices there is absolutely no reason to go over 16 gb in any consumer scenario.
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This cooler is connected to the motherboard via USB as well and has an app to control it so that you can monitor various functions including fan speed and and sound pressure, it is FAR quieter than other air coolers I have like the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 on another system.
Then you're not getting the right air coolers. Check silentpcreview for some good air coolers/analysis of noise. If you choose a good cooler and the right fan, you will be getting the same/if not better performance as low end water coolers at half the price, and at lower noise levels since there are no extra radiators/pumps making extra noise. Low end watercooling is simply not worth the price, it's a marketing gimmick similar to high DPI mice to get you to buy things you don't need. You really need to devote money into a good custom built loop to really appreciate the benefit that comes from water cooling.
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Bang for your buck the graphics weapon of choice at the moment is the NVidia 760, now I know the AMD fanboi's will be all over that but in the hardware tests and bang for your buck it is the best graphics card out there, I prefer EVGA but they aren't the cheapest of suppliers.
I personally think at that price segment the AMD 270X is a better choice as it's very close in performance for 50 bucks less. I still prefer Nvidia myself though because in the higher end AMD cards tend to become jet engines, which isn't worth the advantage in bang for your buck to me.
Regardless of what video card though I tend to prefer MSI as the video card performance between vendors is practically the same and the MSI cards (the red gaming ones, not the yellow hawk/lightning ones) are by far the quietest out of all the vendors. I have heard good things about EVGA warranty/support though. I don't believe EVGA does AMD though if you go that route.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
But I want my gaming computer to be all flashing lights and jet engine noise just like my overpriced and equally unnecessary sports car.
Obviously I have erred and need to ask advice in a proper manly forum and not one populated by nerds with some strange and deep rooted anti-noise prejudice.
Anyway I can't be 100% on this but I'm pretty sure that if the S.E.A.L.S. portrayed in Lone Survivor had run into kids like Rart and not just evil Taliban type ones they would have been more inclined to killing them on the spot instead of showing mercy and foolishly releasing them and things would have turn out a lot better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mjmacky
I think this thread would be better if someone went out of their way to offend skiz.
I try but I'm only one man.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Here you go
https://build.falcon-nw.com/Configur...ationId=144255
Lacking flashing lights, but I'm sure telling people how much you spent on it will make up for that.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
megabyteme
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
If you have the money there is a big performance advantage to be had in 32GB of (fast) RAM plus an SSD, the speed difference on the same system over 16GB with this upgrade is noticeable.
I would like the technical reasoning behind this. How would there be a noticeable difference when most of the time (if ever, as far as I can see) 16GB, yet alone the 32GB, would not be fully put to use?
I am not making an argument here, Art, but hope to learn something.
This was a simple observation from my own build, when new I purchased 16GB of G.Skill Ripjaws 1866 DDR3 RAM and an OCZ SSD, a month later I had the spare cash for the other 16GB, the access times on the SSD jumped and in performance tests (the standard windows ones and others) there was a marked improvement in SSD performance, the only difference was the addition of extra RAM but even with the standard Windows 7 performance test the hard drive access maxed out at 7.9 and in fact the performance limiting factor of the machine according to the tests was/is the graphics card since I still haven't upgraded it, it still comes in at 7.7 though.
The difference between Rart and his reading and me, is the experience of having installed the extra RAM and seeing the performance difference. Now why did I add the extra RAM in the first place, well I built this machine for a purpose, media encoding and it is something that it does very quickly, it maxes out the resources while encoding, but it is evilly fast at doing the job I built it for.
Another point with my system is that it is based on an LGA 2011 processor which it is recommended (by Intel themselves) to use water cooling with. The LGA 2011 CPU's are not supplied with an HSF and Intel themselves retail an Asetek designed water cooler for the LGA 2011 the RTS2011LC, with the high TDP of 130W these CPU's need alot of cooling and on other X79 (LGA 2011) based systems I have dealt with that have an air cooler installed the fan r.p.m. is quite high because of the need to disperse the heat.
Another case in point was a friend who was dissatisfied with the cooler he had in his system, since he felt it was noisy and opted for a water cooler instead. The air cooler in question was a CoolerMaster V8 on an i7 2600k with a mild overclock. I did the installation of the water cooler (another Antec) and on his system there was a drop in the CPU temperature and a drop in the sound pressure, from a water cooler that was a comparable price to the air cooler that it replaced, once again a direct comparison I have seen from an installation I helped with.
I will repeat again though that these are cases where more than standard cooling was required, if in Idol's case he is planning on keeping the machine stock then the debate is moot.
And we are still waiting for the fatuous comments to die down in that direction and for him to give some relevant input as to what he thinks regarding a build and whether he would overclock the system.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
I'm sorry but I've yet to see any case where RAM over how much is needed by the programs you currently have open has had any sort of performance benefit. You'd have to have an absurd amount of programs open just to hit 8 GB, let alone 16 or 32. Media encoding is also largely CPU bound and excess RAM will not help in that regard. If you can find me some sort of enthusiast article/benchmark that proves otherwise I'll change my mind, but until then anecdotal evidence doesn't convince me otherwise. There was probably another factor at work.
Even if the extra RAM provided some sort of minor benefit, you'd get a far bigger benefit from investing into a higher capacity SSD (more NAND dies = more channels in parallel = better performance), or raid0-ing two smaller drives.
And since you brough up the Antec 920 H2O, I dug up a review on it (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1214-page8.html). It gets worst temps than air coolers that are cheaper and quieter. Another factor to take into consideration is that those tests are done in controlled test beds. In a normal system, you're giving up a case fan to install one of those water coolers, which is going to hurt overall temps even more. Low end water cooling simply isn't worth it, it's a marketing gimmick perpetuated by companies because they realize there are a lot of people that automatically assume liquid cooling is automatically better, when it really isn't until you start investing time and money into a good custom loop.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
And we are still waiting for the fatuous comments to die down in that direction and for him to give some relevant input as to what he thinks regarding a build and whether he would overclock the system.
Not going to happen,nerd.The fact that there is no laughter in Hell isn't by mere coincidence.
Btw nice well written ghey computer related post.So much so that I only died a little bit reading it. :)
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rart
I'm sorry but I've yet to see any case where RAM over how much is needed by the programs you currently have open has had any sort of performance benefit. You'd have to have an absurd amount of programs open just to hit 8 GB, let alone 16 or 32. Media encoding is also largely CPU bound and excess RAM will not help in that regard. If you can find me some sort of enthusiast article/benchmark that proves otherwise I'll change my mind, but until then anecdotal evidence doesn't convince me otherwise. There was probably another factor at work.
Even if the extra RAM provided some sort of minor benefit, you'd get a far bigger benefit from investing into a higher capacity SSD (more NAND dies = more channels in parallel = better performance), or raid0-ing two smaller drives.
And since you brough up the Antec 920 H2O, I dug up a review on it (
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1214-page8.html). It gets worst temps than air coolers that are cheaper and quieter. Another factor to take into consideration is that those tests are done in controlled test beds. In a normal system, you're giving up a case fan to install one of those water coolers, which is going to hurt overall temps even more. Low end water cooling simply isn't worth it, it's a marketing gimmick perpetuated by companies because they realize there are a lot of people that automatically assume liquid cooling is automatically better, when it really isn't until you start investing time and money into a good custom loop.
In my own case first, I take it you understand X79 architecture? The MINIMUM amount of RAM you can install on the system is 16GB, the maximum is 32GB or 64GB depending on whether the motherboard is a single or dual bank design. There is a thread on the build lurking somewhere in this very sub forum and pics of the PC in the post pics thread.
I once again reiterate too that Intel do not supply an HSF with the LGA 2011 cpu's you must purchase an aftermarket one and at the time I purchased mine they were recommending water cooling, even having their own water cooler for the LGA 2011 cpu's (as an aftermarket add on) but no HSF.
I'm so glad you found a negative review to back up your point, this is the internet, there are people on here that fervently believe the earth is flat and I usually try to find at least two or thee differing reviews/opinions to find a balance. At the time of purchase the Antec 920 was rated very highly and I liked and still do, the ability to monitor and control the device directly via the USB interface and included software. I can create a custom profile, control fan speeds and monitor temps, fan and pump speeds and the ambient noise.
Another advantage to water cooling is space, this may not seem like much but air coolers have been getting larger and larger over time in an effort to dissipate heat and in the process decrease the airflow within the case. Without this large expanse of aluminium fins there is more space and better airflow.
I recently installed a Deep Cool Assassin cooler on another system, it is so large that it actually covers most of the RAM banks, some of the air coolers out there are starting to get silly.
Additionally there are 4 PCs (there are other computers, but not being used as PC's) in this house, all have aftermarket cooling solutions, the water cooled one is the quietest.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Artemis
In my own case first, I take it you understand X79 architecture? The MINIMUM amount of RAM you can install on the system is 16GB, the maximum is 32GB or 64GB depending on whether the motherboard is a single or dual bank design. There is a thread on the build lurking somewhere in this very sub forum and pics of the PC in the post pics thread.
...Ok? That doesn't change the fact that having RAM in excess of how much your active programs will actually use is essentially useless. If you consistently use more than 16 GB of RAM thats fine, but there's no way in hell a simple gaming PC is ever going to get remotely close to that.
Quote:
I'm so glad you found a negative review to back up your point, this is the internet, there are people on here that fervently believe the earth is flat and I usually try to find at least two or thee differing reviews/opinions to find a balance.
I didn't find some random newegg review online. It's an extremely reputable site that easily has the most sophisticated and accurate testing methodology for cooling and noise out of any site I've seen. Even Anandtech, which I consider to be by far the best and most in depth review site by far, doesn't hold a candle to this site when it comes to specifically testing cooling. The Antec 920 objectively has worse temps and more noise than air coolers at a higher price. There's really not much in terms of sway, it isn't really someones "opinion".
Quote:
At the time of purchase the Antec 920 was rated very highly and I liked and still do, the ability to monitor and control the device directly via the USB interface and included software. I can create a custom profile, control fan speeds and monitor temps, fan and pump speeds and the ambient noise.
That's fine. I'd argue that there's plenty of other ways to accomplish that through third party programs such as Speedfan if you chose to go with another cooler, but if you like the streamlined approach that comes with that cooler, that's a perfectly valid reason for buying it.
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Another advantage to water cooling is space, this may not seem like much but air coolers have been getting larger and larger over time in an effort to dissipate heat and in the process decrease the airflow within the case. Without this large expanse of aluminium fins there is more space and better airflow. I recently installed a Deep Cool Assassin cooler on another system, it is so large that it actually covers most of the RAM banks, some of the air coolers out there are starting to get silly.
That's true. Water coolers will certainly have an advantage in terms of compactness compared to air coolers, which is especially useful if you're going for an HTPC/matx/mitx build. On the airflow front... I'd argue that you'd be getting worse airflow overall with a water cooler. The fact that you lose a case fan with a water cooler is a much bigger deal than any minor impedance that comes with a tower heatsink. As for the RAM issue, any ram with low profile heatsinks will fit just fine, the large heatsinks are nigh pointless on memory. Even if you are hellbent on overclocking your RAM (which will provide negligible benefits in and of itself) and want those sticks with those ridiculous heatsinks, there are plenty of excellent air coolers that are either thinner or have asymmetrical designs to get around that issue.
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Additionally there are 4 PCs (there are other computers, but not being used as PC's) in this house, all have aftermarket cooling solutions, the water cooled one is the quietest.
That's a ridiculous comparison. That's like saying you installed an AMD 7850 on those 4 computers and a GTX 780 on the other computer and the Nvidia computer performed better, so Nvidia must always be better. If you get good air coolers with good fans, it will easily outperform these "pre built" liquid coolers.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
You seem to have a short attention span, I explained earlier that the CPU on my water cooled system has a TDP of 130w, by far the highest thermal output of the four systems I was referring to, it also works the hardest yet it is the quietest.
I have a question though, have you actually installed/dealt with a closed loop water cooler? I am just wondering whether your opinion of them as a gimmick is based on what you have read or whether you have actually had any experience with them?
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
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Originally Posted by
Artemis
You seem to have a short attention span, I explained earlier that the CPU on my water cooled system has a TDP of 130w, by far the highest thermal output of the four systems I was referring to, it also works the hardest yet it is the quietest.
I remember that, it still doesn't make it a valid comparison. You could be using a god awful cooler on a lower TDP system and the Antec 920 on the 130w system. Just saying "I have an air cooler on this pc, a water cooler on this other one that runs hotter, the water cooler one is quieter" doesn't provide any sort of information to draw a solid conclusion that your water cooler is better than all air coolers.
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I have a question though, have you actually installed/dealt with a closed loop water cooler? I am just wondering whether your opinion of them as a gimmick is based on what you have read or whether you have actually had any experience with them?
Nope, I haven't. Mainly because basically every reputable cooling review I've read points toward the fact that you can get better, quieter performance for cheaper from an air cooler than from these prebuilt, low end water coolers. I don't exactly have money to burn.
Let me ask you something then. Have you ever tested one of the SPCR vetted heatsinks against your water cooler, using the exact same setup and hardware, exact same fans, and exact same RPM and undergoing the exact same tests and found the liquid cooler to have better temps and be quieter?
You can't use anecdotal evidence of varying, non controlled setups with potentially subpar air coolers and come to the conclusion that your water cooler is undoubtedly better.
I'd prefer evidence from controlled, tested, and constant environment over anecdotal evidence anyday. Maybe that's where you and I differ.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
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Originally Posted by
Rart
I
Nope, I haven't. Mainly because basically every reputable cooling review I've read points toward the fact that you can get better, quieter performance for cheaper from an air cooler than from these prebuilt, low end water coolers.
Everyone told the Wright brothers that weird contraption would never fly.
I think we can both agree that it's a good thing that they listened to the "experts".
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
Not the same thing. That was a largely speculative assumption on something that was new, untested, and unknown at the time.
All I'm referring to are boring, controlled, measured, and repeatable data points.
If Artemis turns out to be the next Wright Brothers of computing though, I stand corrected.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
It's exactly the same thing as I was putting you in the place of the ( in most cases merely) regurgitating naysayers and Art in the place of someone with actual hands-on experience.:)
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I would prefer all of my air coolers to be shaped like ninja shuriken. That way, they appear dangerous and cool. Get it? It's cooler.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
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Originally Posted by
IdolEyes787
It's exactly the same thing as I was putting you in the place of the ( in most cases merely) regurgitating naysayers and Art in the place of someone with actual hands-on experience.:)
Except they aren't simply "naysayers" doubting something that's never been done like with the Wright Brothers. The people writing these articles have more "hands on experience" then Artemis and me combined, and have the unique place of being able to test a plethora of air and water coolers, under controlled conditions rather than through anecdotal evidence of a couple of builds.
And while I haven't specifically used a closed water loop cooler, nor has Artemis really had experience with the well recieved air coolers in order to make a valid comparison. A Cooler Master V8 thats more concerned with colored LEDs than efficient cooling doesn't count.
Regardless of my insistence on continuing this debate with Artemis though, in the grand scheme of things whatever cooler you get really won't make a huge difference, especially if you don't plan on overclocking (which you have yet to mention whether you want to or not). Heck, even the stock cooler would be perfectly sufficient if you don't want to overclock.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
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Originally Posted by
mjmacky
I would prefer all of my air coolers to be shaped like ninja shuriken. That way, they appear dangerous and cool. Get it? It's cooler.
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Originally Posted by
Rart
Regardless of my insistence on continuing this debate with Artemis though, in the grand scheme of things whatever cooler you get really won't make a huge difference, especially if you don't plan on overclocking (which you have yet to mention whether you want to or not). Heck, even the stock cooler would be perfectly sufficient if you don't want to overclock.
Fuck logic directly in the ear,I'm going with this http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Deepcool/Assassin/
It's not just an "assassin" but it's a freaking "storm assassin" which is obviously way better in the same way that super models are better than run of the mill models because some ghey guy decided to simply add the super.
Problem one solved now I just need to buy a good clock so I can over it.
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Originally Posted by
Rart
Except they aren't simply "naysayers"
It was an Art horse monger joke but I think anyone that can still hear above 17kHz lacks the physical ability to get it.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
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Originally Posted by
IdolEyes787
It was an Art horse monger joke but I think anyone that can still hear above 17kHz lacks the physical ability to get it.
Mmmmmm nope. Guess I'm not cultured enough :(. Maybe when I'm graying and decrepit like you your humor will grow on me.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
If I was stupid or vain enough to post a picture on the interweb you'd be eating your words right about now.
OK I'm vain enough,just marginally not that stupid.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
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Originally Posted by
megabyteme
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Originally Posted by
Artemis
If you have the money there is a big performance advantage to be had in 32GB of (fast) RAM plus an SSD, the speed difference on the same system over 16GB with this upgrade is noticeable.
I would like the technical reasoning behind this. How would there be a noticeable difference when most of the time (if ever, as far as I can see) 16GB, yet alone the 32GB, would not be fully put to use?
I am not making an argument here, Art, but hope to learn something.
Idoleyes' use case involves playing games (even though I find it hard to visualize him playing games). All modern games tries to load as much assets it can into RAM (for faster (pre-)rendering from/to GPU, computations from/to CPU and gameplay), so more RAM is always good. If it can't stuff the RAM with everything, it offloads not so immediate stuff into harddisk, in which case an SSD helps.
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Re: New build and the inevitable problems
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Originally Posted by
IdolEyes787
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Originally Posted by
Rart
Regardless of my insistence on continuing this debate with Artemis though, in the grand scheme of things whatever cooler you get really won't make a huge difference, especially if you don't plan on overclocking (which you have yet to mention whether you want to or not). Heck, even the stock cooler would be perfectly sufficient if you don't want to overclock.
Fuck logic directly in the ear,I'm going with this
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Deepcool/Assassin/
It's not just an "assassin" but it's a freaking "storm assassin" which is obviously way better in the same way that super models are better than run of the mill models because some ghey guy decided to simply add the super.
Problem one solved now I just need to buy a good clock so I can over it.
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Originally Posted by
Rart
Except they aren't simply "naysayers"
It was an Art horse monger joke but I think anyone that can still hear above 17kHz lacks the physical ability to get it.
If you read back you will see that I recently installed a Deep Cool Assassin into a machine, it is even more gigantic in person, and if I threw it at you it would hurt alot, considering it weighs in at a tender 1.25 KG, since it was mounted in a standard not a gaming case there was very little room left over and in fact I had to remove a chassis fan to get the beast to shoehorn in. :blink:
Now back to Rart, I notice you are quoting 'several coolers' throughout your replies, you have yet to mention a single one, just your website reviews so I was actually curious about your own PC it's specs please, and the steps you have taken to mod it to become a silent PC. Also any 'anecdotal' information from other custom builds you have spec'ed or built would help.
I'll even go first if you like, the thread for the X79 build I am discussing survived the board's bad aids last year it can be found here:
http://filesharingtalk.com/threads/4...f-Watercooling
The reason why I ask this is that this is a forum, we discuss things here and people put up 'anecdotal' experience if it is relevant as part of the discussion, otherwise someone would ask a question and whoever was first off the mark with a handy review would post it and that would be that. You must also remember that many websites put up paid for advertising results first including your favourite search engine, so it is always wise to get differing opinions, that is also the purpose of a discussion, and you have not yet given any other information apart from parroting a website.
