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I've been through 2 analog/digital converters now with less than satisfactory results. Time to move on.
I'm poking around on Craigslist for receivers and speakers again.
How about this for $270? (I'll try to haggle a bit) It's listed at $650 new on Amazon - http://denver.craigslist.org/ele/4322184672.html
As for speakers to go with it, I plucked these off Amazon in like 30 seconds. Simple. Not too tall. Good reviews. :idunno: - http://www.amazon.com/Sony-SSF-5000-...1985708&sr=1-3
Personally, I've never really liked the sound of Yamaha receivers. If I had to describe it, I'd say "flat, non-dynamic, lifeless". If you are looking to piece a system together as budget permits, I strongly recommend a mid-level+ Onkyo receiver and Polk speakers. You can even purchase some of the smaller Polks to begin with, then later use them as your surrounds. You just won't beat the combo for most enjoyment for the dollar. Wait until you've got about $800, then buy the "heart" of your system. Following that, wait for sales (Amazon or Newegg) on the pieces you are going to add.
I am certain Art will express his enjoyment of his Onkyo receiver in almost identical (loving) terms as I do.
Since you are willing to purchase used off CL, consider this: http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR828.../ref=pd_cp_e_1 It is the same receiver Art has, but is refurbished. $599. Comes with a 1-year Onkyo warranty. Even at Amazon's regular price (non-refurbished tab on same page), $857 is worth the money, and you get 2 years of warranty. Unless you happened to get a true lemon, you should be fine with the refurb, IMO.
As I've mentioned, Newegg is the place for Polk speakers. http://www.newegg.com/Polk-Audio-Hom...t/ID-12345-494
The M70's are on sale this weekend for $159 each. That's not entirely rare. They do cycle through the different models, though. Remember: the M70's are really big. Make sure you have space for them. The M60's are quite a bit easier to live with, and the difference is mainly in the bass- which can be made up for with an inevitable subwoofer. A pair of the M30's (currently $80/pair) could get you started, then be moved to the surrounds once you budgeted larger mains.
Basically, you are willing to spend ~$400 on a receiver and main speakers you don't know anything about. Double that, and you will have a kick-ass foundation up to the standards of everything else you buy (PC components, etc.)
And now a few words from co.......
First up, there is a misconception about refurbished equipment, particularly refurbished electronics, they are actually more rigorously inspected and tested than those rolled on the production lines because the company wants to recover the inherent value and spends the time and effort to make sure the item is fit for the consumer. They get a full stress/burn in test before final release, and have far more careful quality control(unless it is a tacky brand that does not care) this is definitely not the case with Onkyo.
I have to agree with Meg on Yamaha, I have always found them flat and lifeless. Also for a 'premium' brand they often are lacking in features at the price points they are offered. Pioneer or Onkyo offer better value for money at the same price and have a 'warmer' sound with I think personally Onkyo's WRAT technology offering a far more powerful soundstage. That being said Onkyo have a good sound, they struggled for a long time with home theater performance with a major gaff with a whole product line with faulty HDMI ports requiring a product recall and also struggling to get THX certification so I admire the little guy that has come far in Onkyo's case.
The TX-NR828 is actually my second Onkyo, I had an SR-607 for years before and the only real reason for the change was that it was that it was not a network receiver which the 828 is. The SR-607 was a model from after the HDMI problems and had excellent decoding of DTS formats as well, so I really have gone from strength to strength, since there is all that with the 828 plus more power the advanced THX2 features and the network receiver/internet capabilities. I say this because so often you purchase a new model to be disappointed by lost features or a trimming down of some part of the unit, definitely not so here, and I have owned some fairly decent audio equipment over time.
I differ on Polk audio speakers from Meg, but then I am in a different country and they are quite pricey here, bang for your buck there are other alternatives that do a better job, so I will defer to his judgement, although I will say there are other speaker manufacturers than Polk.... I just don't have a clue on pricing in the glorious US of A.
On the subject of the Onkyo though, the TX NR828 is a huge monster of an amp receiver, you cannot put anything directly on top because of a large cooling fan it uses to dissipate heat and if it fell on you it would kill you, and I got my 828 because of an unbelievable price, there are less pricey models (particularly the 727) which still retain most of the features of the 828, but at a lower price point.
I keep beating the drum for Polk because that is what I have been living with in my living room, as well as using for surrounds in my dedicated theater. The sound is quite neutral- enough to pair well with my B&W 802 Matrix 3's and matching center channel, as well as handling dynamic material without flattening out/overpowering. On top of that, Newegg has an unbelievable partnership with Polk that allows them to move A LOT of speakers at outstandingly low prices. The two, Onkyo and Polk make for a great pairing without costing thousands of dollars.
Honestly, there are very few speakers in the price range of the Polk Monitor line (at Newegg's pricing) that do not sound truly cheap.
The Monitor 70's seem great, and I was willing to get them for the bargain deal of $125 for the pair on Craigslist (they were sold), but with living in a rental for the next couple of years, I don't need anything that powerful; neighbors and all. Not if I'm going to pay full price too.
Right now I'm leaning toward a pair of the Monitor 45B's for $160. Reading around and they appear to be exceptional on their own.
Since you recommended Onkyo as well as Pioneer, I found this earlier for $150.
I found an Onkyo SR606 on there as well for cheap but as Art pointed out, lots of folks on Amazon had HDMI issues.
Really don't want to spend $600 on a receiver that will literally only be plugged in to a TV and Bluray player.... and 2 speakers.
With the SR-606 HDMI switching could take up to 15 minutes, or just not and leave you with a green and purple tinged input. The whole HDMI input board had to be changed on the affected models which was fine during warranty, now however.....
The Pioneer VX-521 is an older baseline model and although it has a nice sound there are some features that are not there that are important. The first is upscaling, and if you have an iPod there is no native input. These may not be major considerations, but then if you look at a more modern unit and simply go down the range (the VX-521 was a base model) we are comparing that to a modern near top of the range model....not really a fair comparison. There are many of the previous generation Onkyo models on clearance prices and if you want a base model look at the TX-NR414 it is still for sale but being an older model is now cheap. In fact a hurried search came up with this one on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR414.../dp/B0077V88YU . There are bound to be cheaper deals than that.
You could use Monitor 45's for your entire surround system, and it would be quite nice. There is an equivalent matched center, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiz
As for the Pioneer, looks like there are some of the same/similar issues Art mentioned with the SR606 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882117398 . Read the reviews, it looks like people are not only mentioning it being closed out for around $120, but having known HDCP issues, and "suddenly no longer working", and OSD not working through HDMI. (See "Latest Reviews", page 2). At least look up what is being said on Newegg as a possible lead towards greater issues. Some research could be wise here.
That may be a very good way to go, but I'd make sure to purchase the closeout directly through Amazon. They are about the only ones who will pay return shipping. On something as heavy as a receiver, it could turn into a risky venture with a net loss, or mean getting stuck with a defective unit...Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
Are you referring to the 25C? I did see that one. If so, that one's as much or more than the 2 other speakers combined. :dabs: (edit: I see a bunch of Polk centers)Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
Not sure where I'd put it either. I picked up a tv stand (see pic below) which has a perfect opening for a center speaker, but the top started bowing in the middle, so (long story, short) I found a free shelf of a matching color and cut it to brace the middle. Works great but the nice gap for a center speaker is now gone.
Spoiler: Show
EDIT: I've been looking at pics of center speakers and I've seen some small shelves that attach to the VESA holes and allow the center channel to perch up top of the TV. Not sure if I'd rather spend $25 on one of those or $25 on a wall mount for the TV...
OK, so I think this is what I'm going with.
TV Mount: $26
Polk 45B's: $162
Center channel: CS2 $100
Yamaha RX-V375: $200. I know you guys don't like Yamaha but I think it gives me everything I need. The only thing it's missing is upscaling but my BluRay player does that before it gets to the receiver anyway.
I did also notice a ZBox in that pic I take it that is what you use for home theater playback ?
Well actually I went back and checked the specs on the Yamaha and it is HDMI 1.4 (3D) compatible has 1080p upscaling 4 HDMI sources and USB iPod input so you're sweet on all counts except network features and that is only if you a. use DLNA or b. internet radio sources. So to translate in to less geeky terms that's a really nice receiver there.... in terms of the specs anyway.
I personally think that audio equipment far more than computers or other technical equipment is highly subjective because it brings out an emotion, and what I enjoy may be very different to what you enjoy, so in the end as long as you do truly enjoy the new receiver and speakers and they enrich your life then that is all you can ask, and alot of people praise Yamaha for the accuracy of reproduction (clarity).
I think you will be happy with that, skiz. You can either keep adding the 45's all around, or use the 30's for your surrounds*. As inexpensive subs go, I seriously doubt you can beat this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882290034 $99 (available regularly on Newegg for that price). I have 2 stacked together. Place it in a corner, dial it in to a natural level, and enjoy the bottom end. Just don't expect to rattle the neighbors' windows...
The speakers are the most important. That receiver should be just fine, honestly. You are certainly headed in the right direction- budget is ultimately a factor, so are needs. Connected to your HTPC, you'll be getting quite a bit more entertainment out of your system. Movies get quite a bit more involving. :w00t::fear::lol::gunsmilie:cry:
*Keep your eyes open for them to go on sale.
Yesirie. It comes with a VESA mount so at my old place I had it attached to the back of the TV out of sight. I have a remote that I use to control everything within XBMC, so no mouse or keyboard needed. In this place, the wifi comes comes from clear across the house and I get a better signal with the ZBox out in the open. In the bedroom I have an older, but better, HTPC. Essentially, it has:Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
Apex Mini-ITX case. Only uses a 90W external PSU attached to the power cable (think laptop brick)
Inside there's a little ZOTAC IONITX-A-U Dual Core 1.6Ghz Mini ITX NVIDIA ION that is easily clocked up to 1.99Ghz in the BIOS. That clock will run any 1080 videos I throw at it. No additional cooling needed.
Nice. Looking forward to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
I other news, my TV might need replacing as well. As of last night I can't get a signal to come in. Only every few minutes will a signal and sound pop in for just a fraction of a second - like a flicker. The menus and the controls are very laggy as well. When it rains it pours. :no:
Ouch. I think recommending a television is even more difficult than helping someone decide on stereo equipment. Budget is a big issue, of course. Stores like Walmart carry similar looking models, which are actually lower-level/quality than some of the higher priced, better quality models available in a particular brand's lineup available elsewhere. It gets confusing. It is nearly impossible to remember how clear a picture was on one set, in a different store, with different lighting, with a different source, with different lighting...Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiz
Basically, do your homework and do not get fooled by artificially inflated prices (which are then "marked down" for a one-day-only "sale") and slightly different model numbers. It can get irritatingly tricky. Like dealing with shady car salesmen. :ermm:
I'll give this TV a few days and see if it doesn't right itself. The only issue is with incoming TV signal. BluRay player and HTPC still display just fine.
I'll be fine picking out a TV if I need to. Plus, I have like a brazillon credit card points. :01:
Sorry to hear about your woes with your TV, I can commiserate on that score having come home last year after being away for a week to find a lovely impact mark in my plasma TV. It is truly amazing how large and round children's eyes get when trying to explain it wasn't them..... My wife had no idea but the TV deteriorated over the next few days and finally ate itself.
May I compliment you on your excellent taste in Zotac equipment though. I happen to have the identical IonITX A-U board wrapped up in this:
http://i.imgur.com/fzyokaA.jpg
Silverstone ML03 ITX/DTX Home Theater case
Impressive,Art.Especially considering that you hail from a Third World country,
I'm assuming that you hold a status of no less than minor warlord to be able to have access to that kind of high-end stuff.
Also knowing what I do of the South Pacific,especially impressive considering all that was likely made from salvage off of one of Captain Cook's ships.
But then you heathens have proven yourselves to be a crafty lot.
Couldn't get anything to fix the TV. Then I tried unplugging it for a while. That seems to have reset whatever the problem was. All's well now. :idunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis
Ah, well you know the pleasure of that board then. Oldie but goodie. I've had it 4 years and still love it. Yours looks nice. What's the box up top do? Here's mine in the bedroom supporting a 37" Vizio LED.
http://i.imgur.com/t1mbyqf.jpg
Got the receiver, center speaker, and shelf to put it on top of the TV. (gotta love amazon prime) Have to wait another few days to receive 45Bs from Newegg.
I put the shelf above the tv along with the center channel. I didn't like the look of it. The center channel is a bit larger than I had envisioned and having it perched out in front of the TV looked... bad. I'm returning that to Amazon and instead, I've purchased a wall mount for the tv, which will in turn leave a place for the center speaker on the tv stand. Gonna wait until I have everything to plug any of the speakers in and give it a listen.
That Polk sub will be $79 for the next couple days on Newegg. Will fill out the bottom end of the 45s nicely. :naughty:
Actually ships get wrecked here once in a while and I was able to fashion my home equipment from hull plates from the wreck of the M.V. Rena ( which is still causing a huge environmental problem).Quote:
Originally Posted by IdolEyes787
I'm not a warlord, but I am one of the few settlers with a flintlock....
On a more serious note the rest of the bedroom system though is a Logitech Z-5400 for the audio (that is the controller on top) and a 32" LCD
I did buy that actually, but I bought it on Amazon for $2 more with Prime 2-day shipping included. Newegg wanted $68 for 2-day shipping. It's hardly any wonder I don't shop there much anymore unless I really need to.Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
As for connecting it, am I right in that the "Subwoofer Pre-out" should connect to the sub with just the red portion of the RCA cable?
Very cool. As long as you don't have it overpowered, I think it has a nicer sound than any sub I've heard under $300. It isn't meant to "punch" like a car sub, but meant to strengthen the lower end, and do what smaller speakers cannot- even adds more than a lot of larger speakers because of its dedicated amplification. At $81 (Amazon is my go-to store, but I did not think to look there this time :doh: ), you made a good buy.
Let me know when the Newegg items arrive. I'm interested to see what you think of it all. :)
Took me a bout an hour to set everything up and hang the TV. Sounds great.
I would have preferred the left and right speakers be on the floor but I'm a little worried the g/f's 2 cats may see them as scratching posts.
Spoiler: Show
Nicely done. :)
As for the speaker placement, unless you purchased some stands for them, they will sound quite a bit better off the floor. you might even notice some benefit if you were to tip them (with spikes, or something) so that the tweeters were aimed more directly towards the primary listening position. As they are, looks great.
Judging from the pic, those M70s would have been quite large in there.
Thanks.
The M70's were only about 2" taller than my previous speakers, but they were about twice the depth.
Any ideas on how to get the tv to play through the speakers when wanted? I don't have cable tv since I have access to everything already, so no cable box; just an HD antenna. I have one HDMI running from the receiver OUT to the tv which feeds video from the PC and BluRay, so I though if I added another FROM the tv INTO the receiver, that might work. Nope.
Also, not real happy with the sub. The sound is fine but the "Auto" setting on the back doesn't appear to function properly. It's supposed to kick the sub on when it detects something is playing, and turn it off after 15 of nothing playing. It doesn't appear to kick on when it's supposed to tho. I don't like leaving it on either as there's clearly audible hum that comes from it. :dabs:
I am on my way to a meeting, so I do not have time to give a complete answer. I suspect the sound coming from the sub is a "ground loop hum" which can be a HUGE pain to eliminate. My subs are quite silent, so I doubt it is anything inherent to the product itself.
Adjusting the gain may help the sub kick on, as it is "looking" for a substantial enough signal before turning on.
The television OUT can be a function of your internal menu. What model is it exactly. I'll look at the manual when I get back.
None of the reading I did online gave me a fix for the sub, but I think I've found one on my own. In the Yamaha speaker settings there is an option for "large" and "small" for the front speakers. Changing it to small seems to have switched some of the priority to the sub.
Are you still getting that hum/buzz/whatever from the sub? Sometimes this can be fixed by plugging the sub into an outlet not on the same circuit (breaker) as the rest of the system. Other fixes can get quite elaborate. There are threads-a-plenty where knowledgeable people try to track down and eliminate the problem. The more equipment you have, the more likely it is you will get a ground loop hum.
Now that we've bought another house I was thinking of buying those Polk Monitor 70's. Should I keep any of this other stuff or sell it? :unsure:
2 x Polk 45B's
1 x Polk PSW10 sub
1 x Polk CS2 Series II center channel
Did you try a different composite sub wire connection?? I bought a fancier y cable and composite(rca) wire as well:idunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiz
All of my amps also have a ground connection so i did that as well, plus the volume level of the sub could be too high and it is distorting??
I am really not fond of Yamaha amps (highest refurbs usually), so i am not really familiar with there setups or there real channel distribution, but i always test sound levels with Pink Floyds the Wall album and put the Intro to the Wall song on and adjust accordingly, but my experience i have blown alot of center channels playing and testing with it to find the center channel i prefered:D
PS.. the large setting is for L&R front speakers that can handle bass load, and will take stress off your sub woofer, or if you are using better speakers and lousy sub that is a better setting, but if you are using a good sub reverse that, again my opinion with a sub being non directional sound, is better for boom affects in a room;)
Good luck Skiz:D
I would check out AVS forums and read between the lines on the information... There is usually some good feedback on all different equipment there..Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiz
Or if you have some fancy stereo shops in your neighborhood (not best buys or big box stores), i would check them out just for shits and giggles:D
And to be honest i think sound is what your ears like:yup:, there is so much equipment and stuff on the market today it is really what you think sounds good and go from there...Depending what you are looking for in a sound can vary what you buy or like, plus what size room you have and if you want to wake the neighbors at night:D..
Again Good luck Skiz..
PS. if you liked what you had before(nothing blown!!) you could always put it in a different room, and have another surround setup:D, sometimes selling stuff and getting shit for it, and then having to replace it again for another room is not always smart:idunno:, especially with speakers you have found that you like the sound quality....
I think you should be quite happy keeping what you've got, move the 45B's to the rear channels, and get those 70/75's. The center channel should be quite compatible soundwise to the new fronts.
The subwoofer would still be fine, its bass output would not be as necessary once the 70/75's were in your system.
Refresh my memory- what did you end up with for a receiver? How big is your new room? Were you using rear channel speakers before?
Personally, I would hang on to all of those speakers even if you decided to upgrade to an entirely new system (not necessary since you have good, matching speakers). I find it is nice to move smaller, good speakers to new 'projects'. Nothing lacking in them, TBH.
Depending on the size of room, your next step after the 70/75's could be a larger subwoofer- just for kickass WOW factor. Not necessary.
EDIT- just to clarify, the 70/75's will produce more bass in the low end than the 45's. You may not notice the sub you have as much. Still, you'd want to have a sub for low end rumble. Live with the one you've got for now with the 70/75's and see if you want more. Bigger rooms will need more bass.
Is there an echo in this forum??:whistlingQuote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
Would you agree that the center channel is the most important??
That is for Video purposes... A lot of my friends still prefer 2 channel for sound quality listening :D
Explains why a good separate channel amp today is important:yup:
PS.. actually reading his posts if did see Yamaha mentioned in one of them:idunno:
We kind of planned this transition. The center has the same size drivers (maybe even the same drivers) as what he's looking to add. You can't do much better than that. The center just needs to match the mains in tone and ability to output. That is what is important.
2-channel is great for listening to music mixed to be played on 2-channel speakers. With a good quality receiver (I prefer mid-level or better Onkyo), I see no real need for separates unless a guy really wants to spend his time and money in stereo shops.
I agree with everything you say!!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
And until you set up what you have in your new house(what i did:)), you may not need anything at all....
That was almost a trick question , but i like to kill time every once and a while and see what is new out there in the more exclusive stereo shops, that's all..
And i don't understand how they could have the same drivers?? Different models are they not??
To me that would change the characteristics of the voice/sound, and depending on what levels you listen that would make a difference would it not??
Hens center channel is the main speaker you should have to your liking when you talk audio/video watching:D(and i have blown a few on my listening level!!)
But the humming or feedback from the sub woofer is still a question to answer ??:idunno:
PS. I am not talking multiple pre amps... I meant a better quality Audio/video amp with true channels and no bleeding(if that makes sense on paper) Yamaha would not be first on my list:idunno:
Those drivers could very well be the same. Polk has a very neutral sound, and this line is a massively sold, good-quality, very modest price product. In order to make that possible, they need to have good quality, matched drivers across the entire line. And sell a quintillion of them. They do.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I m using Polks as surrounds on sides and rears (7.2 setup) to match with my B&W 802 Matrix 3's and matching center (800-series Matrix HTM). They are neutral enough to pull this off. I have ZERO doubt his existing Polks will match his new ones.
Maybe i am misunderstanding what you are saying?? When you say matching?? are you saying they will preform well together??(running 2 subs are we!!)Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
But what i am saying is if you go up models on speakers, no matter what manufacturer, there is going to be changes, be it lower level or higher level sound quality??
Or what would be the purpose to change models?? Again with a better amp you will see the difference, especially if the amp can push/drive the speakers..
Does that make sense??
And it is funny i am running 7.1 in a few rooms in my house, and without Disney movies what else is there LOL!!!
To me alot of times 5.1-2 is plenty to enjoy a movie, and 6.1(dumb to hear voice behind you!!) and 7.1 is overkill...
Because i am a dinosaur still i have glanced at Atmos and some of the other new ways of broadcasting but i ask myself if my ears will really notice:unsure:
PS. I should add i have used the beginning of the Blade movie to test speakers:D, I love the neighbors to listen to the rave song :D
And you are a perfect example... You have some vintage speakers in your setup (i would never get rid of those if i were you!!), it all is based on the sound you are looking for:D, like comparing old JBL's and new ones:noes:
I truly love my B&W's.
When I say 'matching', I mean that the Polks are quite suitable tonally to be used in my system. It took A LOT of listening, but I am pleased with the result- and they were reasonable considering I needed 4 for sides and rears.
The Polks that Skiz will be matching really are from the same line. No big stretch to believe they will pair nicely, if not perfectly.
Got it :huh:Quote:
Originally Posted by megabyteme
What is the :huh: part of that, shay?