Not Again?

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12-04-2003, 11:13 PM
clocker

In my neverending ( and quite exhausting, I might add) efforts to keep you all amused, I present yet another mod...

In my thread about building a custom case ( more on that later), Bob the Alien made the casual comment about cooling the backside of the motherboard. I didn't pay much attention at the time, but a second read of the thread brought that to my attention and I decided to monitor some temps back there.
Not surprisingly, the temp on the motherboard plate, directly under the CPU and chipset was noticably warmer than other areas.
Not hot, mind you, noplace in this case is really hot anymore, but warmer.

As it happens I also had a spare fan laying around.
Also, I was planning on stripping down my PC in order to measure some components so I could begin laying out a case design.
Furthermore, while the case was bare I wanted to add a insulator plate beneath the PSU to shield it from the CPU HSF.
So, here we have the motherboard mounting wall with a second fan mounted, blowing on the backside of the CPU socket area.
The fan on the lower left is dedicated to the HDD...
http://server4.uploadit.org/files/04...winfan.jpg.jpg
From the other side ( where all the fun stuff is) you can see that I incorporated a exhaust fan into the isolator plate to help evacuate all the air and heat in this area...
http://server4.uploadit.org/files/04...Trifan.jpg.jpg
As usual, the two fans on the case backwall are blowing in and the new fan is sucking out ( and up).
Also visible is the new fan I added to the bottom heatsink on my video card.
This brings the total number of fans in the case to nine.
A bit excessive perhaps, but not really very noisy at all and very effective (so far).

As I sit here now, after one hour uptime, the CPU is reading 32 degC.

I would love to run some burnin tests and post the results, but my "evaluation period" has expired and I've been unable to come up with the acceptable solution. I need to solve this minor problem as all my previous results were derived using that program and a direct comparison is impossible without it. :(
12-04-2003, 11:28 PM
atiVidia

cant you just STOP modding ur pc for once? its inside has become quite uglu w/those orange fans

safety issue: what if someone started dropping mini carrots into the top hole of your case? the fan would shred them and the shreds would burn and melt your mobo and other pcb based stuff

somewhat of an exaggeration but meh :rolleyes:

still, cover the top vent
12-04-2003, 11:40 PM
clocker

All of the fans, and the top vents also, are screened.

I'm not in the habit of tossing around minicarrots either.
12-05-2003, 12:23 AM
clocker

In lieu of running the Burnin test, I have been periodically plugging/unplugging the new motherboard fan.

The CPU temps rise and fall quite fast and dramatically in response.

This may actually work. :o
12-05-2003, 12:52 AM
Mïcrösöül°V³

un-install the program you were using, run ashampoo winoptimizer to clean out all the left overs from the program, then re-install it. it should re-set your eval period, or you could try manually searching the registry for the entry that tells the program the eval time is up.
12-05-2003, 12:52 AM
Virtualbody1234

Clocker, check your PM inbox.
12-05-2003, 01:11 AM
bigdawgfoxx

Atividia you have no right to tell him what to do, board noob. I like his case AND his orange fans. Loooks very nice...I also like how it is all angled toward the CPU.

Clocker- is that heatsink and fan good? Does it keep you CPU very cool?
12-05-2003, 01:58 AM
Evil Gemini

Quote:

As it happens I also had a spare fan laying around

:lol:

BWT clocker, you dont mind if i use some of your ideas for cooling ??

I never in a million years would have thought to cool the motherboard from behind :)
12-05-2003, 02:25 AM
DWk

you ALWAYS have to think of putting something from behind, you see? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
12-05-2003, 02:32 AM
clocker

Bigdawg,

I cannot in good conscience recommend the Zalman HS.
It is OK, but not significantly better than the stock AMD HS with a 80mm fan mounted.
For $50 I would have hoped for more.

Neat,
Of course you may "steal" any and all of the ideas that you find useful. That is why I post them and how could I stop you anyway?
You will need a very low profile fan to fit between your mounting wall and exterior case panel. You will also have to cut a hole in your side panel and provide for some sort of dust filtering/screening. I found it easiest to use the screen meant for a 120mm fan as that gives you some wiggle room in case you don't quite line everything up perfectly. Also the screws that hold the screen won't hit the fan.
BE VERY SURE you want to do this before cutting up your sidepanel. I'm running with a piece of cardboard taped over my side right now just to verify that it really works. The hole in the motherboard wall I don't care about, it can't be seen, but I want to really be sure before I hack away at my side panel...

atividia,
Orange wouldn't have been my first ( or even 10th) color choice either, but my case came with 7 of 'em , they work and they are quiet. If I ever actually finalize my layout maybe I can cadge some LED fans from Abu...
12-05-2003, 03:32 AM
Evil Gemini

Maybe it would be easier to like, take the motherboard out and then put the side panel back on and then put a texture in the fan hole of the motherboard holder thingy and just draw the circle on the side panel and then when you take it of, you know exactly where you have to make the hole for the fan.

(sorry , thats the best i can explain it) :lol:

Quote:

Of course you may "steal" any and all of the ideas that you find useful. That is why I post them and how could I stop you anyway?

Thanks, i just have a habbit of asking because then i dont feel like i have stolen your idea.
12-05-2003, 03:37 AM
clocker

Well, it's not really my idea.
Thank Bob the Alien.

Your method of transferring the outline of he fan will work obviously, but does your sidepanel slide on?
Mine does, so I have to have some room around the fan for the screen screws to clear or I can't slide the panel into place...

Edit: If you actually go ahead and try this, please let me know how it works out for you...
12-05-2003, 04:02 AM
Evil Gemini

OK i forgot about the sliding panel :lol:

Been a while since my pc has had the panels on lol.

OK what if somehow it was possible to have the fan have way in the motherboard plate like this.

http://server4.uploadit.org/files/051203-wedge.JPG

It might leave JUST enough room for the panel to slide on and if your lucky and the motherboard MIGHT not be in the way.

Might have to get the ruler out and check :)

If this way works, when the panel is on it should give a nice flush look and can put one of those grills on.
12-05-2003, 04:11 AM
clocker

How do you hold the fan in place?
You could make some brackets I suppose...

My mobo only sits about 1/4-5/16" off the mounting panel anyway.

I'm not sure that's a real good idea anyway, you want the fan some distance from the board so the air can blow around back there.

Edit: What's your CPU temp run as it is now?
12-05-2003, 04:39 AM
Evil Gemini

Right now, its at around 48 C. Its a bit hot for a 1.3Ghz duron i suppose but im just using standard HSF.

I dont know what temp my Chipset is at but its pretty hot that if i leave my finger on it it really burns.

. I have a fan but their is a damn capacitor in the way so im going to look for one that fits.

Dont really want to move the capacitor.

Quote:

My mobo only sits about 1/4-5/16" off the mounting panel anyway.

I'm not sure that's a real good idea anyway, you want the fan some distance from the board so the air can blow around back there.

Damn their always is something isnt their :(

Might have to experiment on one of my old atx cases and snap in a blown motherboard just to figure it out.
12-05-2003, 06:38 AM
clocker

If your fan is too close you'll get backpressure and the fan won't work too well.

I'd like to space my mobo out some, but then my heatsink will foul the two intake fans. I could move them over a bit .... wait a minute, this is getting ridiculous.

Your temp is running 48C and you don't have the side panels on?
You may need more than one fan...
12-05-2003, 07:15 AM
bob_the_alien

So, clocker, did you find that it putting cooling on the back of the mobo, decrease heat allot, or very little.

When I suggested it, I really wasn't for sure, if it would decrease the heat too much or not.

I actually think I go with the grill idea with the fans behind the mobo, on my sub box project.
12-05-2003, 07:22 AM
abu_has_the_power

:w00t: nice work clocker! very nice work. go post ur pics on forums.extremeoverclocking.com. see wat they say bout ur case. i'd say not bad at all. nice cable flu. might work a bit on the air tunnel things (forgot the real name), they're kinda blocking the view, and do u really need all of them?

but nice work dude. how much $ did u spend on this piece of shit, i mean beauty? lol
12-05-2003, 01:06 PM
atiVidia

Quote:

Originally posted by bigdawgfoxx@4 December 2003 - 20:11
Atividia you have no right to tell him what to do, board noob.  I like his case AND his orange fans.  Loooks very nice...I also like how it is all angled toward the CPU.

Clocker- is that heatsink and fan good?  Does it keep you CPU very cool?

i ASKED him if he could stop did i tell him to stop?

NO!
12-05-2003, 02:14 PM
bob_the_alien

Once you start though, you can never stop; it's almost as bad as a heroin addiction. :lol:
12-05-2003, 02:21 PM
clocker

Worse, oh much worse.

With heroin you know what you're getting.
12-05-2003, 02:47 PM
clocker

Update:

Although I am still unable to post results of the burnin test with temps, I have cobbled in a switch to turn the motherboard fan on and off, thus checking it's effectiveness.

I am getting a consistent rise/fall of three deg C at the CPU with this fan on/off. I am going to run the burnin test anyway and start with the fan off, then activate it halfway through and see if I can end up with a LOWER temp than I started with.
That would be impressive, a result I have yet to see on my rig.

I wish that someone else would try this out and confirm/repudiate these results.
I know it's asking a lot, but I'd love to know whether ( and why) this might be as effective as it initially appears.

Who's feeling adventurous?
12-05-2003, 03:18 PM
clocker

Okay folks.

Just ran the burnin test and the results were as I had hoped.
Keep in mind that the absolute temps are essentially irrelevant, being dependent on ambient room temp ( quite warm ATM as the furnace has come alive), it's the delta values that we're interested in.

I switched off the fan and let the machine sit for a few moments.
At the start of the test the CPU temp was 38C.
At the 7 1/2 minute mark the CPU was at 41C and I activated the fan.
At 15 minutes the CPU was 36C.

Now ( 5-7 minutes after the test concluded) the CPU is a steady 34C.

I shall duplicate this test a few more times, just to verify the consistency of the outcome, but it looks very promising to me so far.
12-05-2003, 03:55 PM
clocker

Quote:

Originally posted by abu_has_the_power@5 December 2003 - 00:22
:w00t: nice work clocker! very nice work. go post ur pics on forums.extremeoverclocking.com. see wat they say bout ur case. i'd say not bad at all. nice cable flu. might work a bit on the air tunnel things (forgot the real name), they're kinda blocking the view, and do u really need all of them?

but nice work dude. how much $ did u spend on this piece of shit, i mean beauty? lol

Abu, what is "cable flu"?

The Thermaltake ducts may "block the view" as you say, but so what?
I would much prefer an obstructed view of a cool CPU to a excellent view of a molten AMD ( bit of exaggeration there).
All of my testing so far has led me to conclude that, in order to be really effective, a fan has to be as near as possible to it's intended target. Just mounting a fan in the general vicinity and hoping that it will do some good doesn't cut it.

Your results may vary.
12-05-2003, 08:56 PM
abu_has_the_power

Quote:

Originally posted by clocker+5 December 2003 - 10:55--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 5 December 2003 - 10:55)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-abu_has_the_power@5 December 2003 - 00:22
:w00t: nice work clocker! very nice work. go post ur pics on forums.extremeoverclocking.com. see wat they say bout ur case. i'd say not bad at all. nice cable flu. might work a bit on the air tunnel things (forgot the real name), they're kinda blocking the view, and do u really need all of them?

but nice work dude. how much $ did u spend on this piece of shit, i mean beauty? lol

Abu, what is "cable flu"?

The Thermaltake ducts may "block the view" as you say, but so what?
I would much prefer an obstructed view of a cool CPU to a excellent view of a molten AMD ( bit of exaggeration there).
All of my testing so far has led me to conclude that, in order to be really effective, a fan has to be as near as possible to it's intended target. Just mounting a fan in the general vicinity and hoping that it will do some good doesn't cut it.

Your results may vary. [/b][/quote]
wow. this is scary. i actually know more than the hardware world master himself. lol. jk. cable flu is the street name for cable organization. all ur cables r tucked away and not sticking out. that's called cable flu. my pc is all messed up cuz i got no time to mess with it. but i do tuck them to the edges so they don't block my airflow
12-05-2003, 09:19 PM
bob_the_alien

Quote:

Originally posted by abu_has_the_power@5 December 2003 - 14:56
wow. this is scary. i actually know more than the hardware world master himself. lol. jk.

:lol: :lol:
No one person can know everything Abu,

Clocker hasn't reached the level of Hardware World God (Yet), :lol:
12-05-2003, 10:05 PM
Spicker

computer looks nice ;)

too bad i dunt hav time or money to do all tht :(
12-05-2003, 10:43 PM
abu_has_the_power

Quote:

Originally posted by jaigandhi5@5 December 2003 - 17:05
computer looks nice ;)

too bad i dunt hav time or money to do all tht :(

yea same here. none of my cables are rounded, and i don't have the time to make them rounded. also all of my psu cables are hanging in front of my ram. (sigh). i'll have to find time to work some cables to the back
12-06-2003, 12:44 AM
clocker

Quote:

cable flu is the street name for cable organization. all ur cables r tucked away and not sticking out. that's called cable flu

Oh.
I guess I have never been on that particular street.
I really should get out more.

BTW Abu, believe it or not, I took your advice and posted at Overclockers.com forum.

Very interesting place.
12-06-2003, 01:13 AM
Spicker

Quote:

Originally posted by abu_has_the_power+5 December 2003 - 23:43--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (abu_has_the_power @ 5 December 2003 - 23:43)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-jaigandhi5@5 December 2003 - 17:05
computer looks nice  ;)

too bad i dunt hav time or money to do all tht :(

yea same here. none of my cables are rounded, and i don't have the time to make them rounded. also all of my psu cables are hanging in front of my ram. (sigh). i'll have to find time to work some cables to the back [/b][/quote]
heck! i dont cant even see my memory i put all my DAMN ribbon ide cables on top so it doesnt block the HSF lol

the only thing i did for my computer wuz this summer i put holes on the side of the case lol

my dad was like y dunt u jus throw water in there

and i only hav 3 FANS!in total lol!