Ati Vs Nvidia

Printable View

12-14-2003, 08:53 PM
lynx

I've finally decided it's time I got a DirectX 9 capable video card.

The problem is that I don't want to change anything else at the moment, and my motherboard is only AGP2.0 compliant (4x,2x,1x).

I've been looking around at various graphics cards (I'm not bothered about one that's super fast, but it must support DirectX 9.

Quite frankly, I'm a little disappointed with the level of documentation on Radeon based cards. Every one of them says "supports AGP 8x". Does this mean they ONLY support AGP 8x, or that is the maximum they support but will support lower specs. There's one exception, the Sapphire 9600XT, which says it supports 8x, 4x. The very fact that one card says this is worrying with respect to the other cards, as the inference is that they DON'T support 4x. And the 9600XT is a little expensive.

Fortunately, the NVidia cards all seem to say they support 8x,4x,2x or that the min requirement is AGP2.0 compliance. Seems like I'm going for a NVidia based card.
12-14-2003, 09:05 PM
DWk

nah usually the ati's are also 4x-2x-1x backwards compatible.... :)
12-14-2003, 09:17 PM
Virtualbody1234

Quote:

I've been looking around at various graphics cards (I'm not bothered about one that's super fast, but it must support DirectX 9.

I don't know what performance you're looking for or what your budget is but based on your post I would say look at the Nvidia fx5200.
12-14-2003, 09:48 PM
lynx

Quote:

Originally posted by DWk@14 December 2003 - 20:05
nah usually the ati's are also 4x-2x-1x backwards compatible.... :)

http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys/no.gif I don't think so, they'd have to support all voltages from 0.8 to 3.3, and that's pretty unlikely.

Quote:

I don't know what performance you're looking for or what your budget is but based on your post I would say look at the Nvidia fx5200.

I was thinking of something along those lines myself. I've found one at ebuyer for under £50, so I'll probably go for that. We'll see what tomorrow brings, there's no point in ordering tonight. They've got a good deal on adsl modem/router's, which I need, and on DVD-R's which I'm almost out of, so it makes sense to get them all at once and save on transport charges.
12-14-2003, 10:27 PM
atiVidia

the best ATI card (9800xt) supports 8x and 4x

the best nVidia card (5950 ultra) supports 8x, 4x, and i think 2x as well

so basically, every card out today fits ur needs

with the 9800s and every fx card, u also need a free HDD power connection (unless u use a mac w/ AGP pro, or u have an AGP Pro mobo (which u dont)
12-14-2003, 11:02 PM
Virtualbody1234

Quote:

I've been looking around at various graphics cards (I'm not bothered about one that's super fast, but it must support DirectX 9.

Quote:

the best ATI card (9800xt) supports 8x and 4x

the best nVidia card (5950 ultra) supports 8x, 4x, and i think 2x as well

@atiVidia, I guess you don't understand "I'm not bothered about one that's super fast."

The cards you posted are very expensive to only use at 4x.
12-15-2003, 01:10 AM
johnboy27

Quote:

Originally posted by lynx+14 December 2003 - 22:48--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lynx @ 14 December 2003 - 22:48)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-DWk@14 December 2003 - 20:05
nah usually the ati's are also 4x-2x-1x backwards compatible.... :)

http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys/no.gif I don't think so, they'd have to support all voltages from 0.8 to 3.3, and that's pretty unlikely.

Quote:

I don't know what performance you're looking for or what your budget is but based on your post I would say look at the Nvidia fx5200.

I was thinking of something along those lines myself. I've found one at ebuyer for under £50, so I'll probably go for that. We'll see what tomorrow brings, there's no point in ordering tonight. They've got a good deal on adsl modem/router's, which I need, and on DVD-R's which I'm almost out of, so it makes sense to get them all at once and save on transport charges. [/b][/quote]
The box for my Radeon 9200 only said 8x but it is running just fine at 4x, and I can also change the settings down to 2x or even 1x and it works just fine.
12-15-2003, 02:33 AM
atiVidia

Quote:

Originally posted by Virtualbody1234@14 December 2003 - 18:02

Quote:

I've been looking around at various graphics cards (I'm not bothered about one that's super fast, but it must support DirectX 9.

Quote:

the best ATI card (9800xt) supports 8x and 4x

the best nVidia card (5950 ultra) supports 8x, 4x, and i think 2x as well

@atiVidia, I guess you don't understand "I'm not bothered about one that's super fast."

The cards you posted are very expensive to only use at 4x.

when I say that "The best works on 4x, etc." then it means that, surely, the lesser cards work as well

please understand my logic.
12-15-2003, 02:45 AM
raiserblade2003

Quote:

Originally posted by atiVidia+15 December 2003 - 02:33--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (atiVidia @ 15 December 2003 - 02:33)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Virtualbody1234@14 December 2003 - 18:02

Quote:

I've been looking around at various graphics cards (I'm not bothered about one that's super fast, but it must support DirectX 9.

Quote:

the best ATI card (9800xt) supports 8x and 4x

the best nVidia card (5950 ultra) supports 8x, 4x, and i think 2x as well

@atiVidia, I guess you don't understand "I'm not bothered about one that's super fast."

The cards you posted are very expensive to only use at 4x.

when I say that "The best works on 4x, etc." then it means that, surely, the lesser cards work as well

please understand my logic. [/b][/quote]
thats kinda hard to understand. ppl might think that when you say "The best works on 4x, etc." that only the best will work on 4x and lower budget card being a budget card is not backward compatible
12-15-2003, 03:19 AM
lynx

I think a lot of you have missed the point.

Maybe Ati cards will work with my motherboard, maybe they won't.

But if they can't be bothered to give proper specifications, they can stick their cards where the video don't shine. I'm not going to risk my money buying something that isn't quoted as being compatible.

If it's quoted as being compatible and it isn't, then I've got a claim.
If it's not quoted as being compatible and it works, then all very good, otherwise I'm stuffed.
12-15-2003, 03:25 AM
Livy

what about a ati radeon 9600se.
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/in...oduct_uid=55195
http://www.hightech.com.hk/html/9600se.htm
12-15-2003, 03:30 AM
lynx

Quote:

Originally posted by Livy@15 December 2003 - 02:25
what about a ati radeon 9600se.
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/in...oduct_uid=55195
http://www.hightech.com.hk/html/9600se.htm

I've looked at both of those before, there is no guarantee they will work with an AGP 2.0 slot.
12-15-2003, 03:31 AM
Livy

from the hightech link

Quote:

Bus Interface

AGP 8X / 4X
12-15-2003, 03:33 AM
lynx

That's AGP 3.0

Edit: it MAY work in an AGP 2.0 slot at 4x, but there's no guarantee, so I'm not risking it.
12-15-2003, 03:35 AM
Livy

Quote:

Originally posted by lynx@15 December 2003 - 03:33
That's AGP 3.0

but it says it supports agp 4x and that is the min req. which you have? it should work, shouldnt it? as an agp3.0 4x, should be the same as an agp2.0 4x would it not?
12-15-2003, 03:52 AM
lynx

Quote:

Originally posted by Livy+15 December 2003 - 02:35--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Livy @ 15 December 2003 - 02:35)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lynx@15 December 2003 - 03:33
That's AGP 3.0

but it says it supports agp 4x and that is the min req. which you have? it should work, shouldnt it? as an agp3.0 4x, should be the same as an agp2.0 4x would it not? [/b][/quote]
No, that's the big problem with AGP specs.

Intel (who "defined" the specifications) have changed things twice (at least) since the originalspec, and with the same slot there are 3.3 volt, 1.5 volt and 0.8 volt specs. There are various combinations of specs which work together, but unless the card providers specifically state which ones they support you can get a card which doesn't work in your machine.

Stating 8x, 4x is no guarantee of anything, they should be quoting which standard they support (AGP1.0, AGP2.0 etc).

At least NVidia chip suppliers either state the min spec or provide a range which overlaps enough to give a meaningful definition. Btw, up until this I was a confirmed Ati supporter.
12-15-2003, 03:54 AM
DWk

4x for a dx9 card? tsk tsk.... no comments :rolleyes:
12-15-2003, 03:58 AM
Livy

you could get a new board?

i just got this board http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/components...?quicklinx=2Q7L
which is http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/mainboa...php3?name=M7NCD

and its pretty cheap/

and you can see from here http://www.bjorn3d.com/_preview.php?articleID=288 the pro version is ok.

i havent tested the board yet as i havent got the rest of the parts yet, but it should be on wednesday.
12-15-2003, 03:59 AM
lynx

Quote:

Originally posted by DWk@15 December 2003 - 02:54
4x for a dx9 card? tsk tsk.... no comments :rolleyes:

Maybe you should read the specs for 4x and 8x. And look at the benchmarks. There's really not much difference at the moment since the rest of MOST systems can't provide data fast enough. :P
12-15-2003, 04:00 AM
Livy

Quote:

Originally posted by lynx+15 December 2003 - 03:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lynx @ 15 December 2003 - 03:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-DWk@15 December 2003 - 02:54
4x for a dx9 card? tsk tsk.... no comments :rolleyes:

Maybe you should read the specs for 4x and 8x. And look at the benchmarks. There's really not much difference at the moment since the rest of MOST systems can't provide data fast enough. :P [/b][/quote]
or you could just go for it?

edit: or try contacting the manufacturer for one of the cards, like the hightech one i posted, since its the cheapest ati based dx9 card.
12-15-2003, 04:05 AM
lynx

Quote:

Originally posted by Livy@15 December 2003 - 02:58
you could get a new board?

i just got this board http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/components...?quicklinx=2Q7L
which is http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/mainboa...php3?name=M7NCD

and its pretty cheap/

and you can see from here http://www.bjorn3d.com/_preview.php?articleID=288 the pro version is ok.

i havent tested the board yet as i havent got the rest of the parts yet, but it should be on wednesday.

When I get a new board, I want to get something worthwhile (and have the possibility to upgrade other parts of my system), I can't see any point in getting something which is only marginally better than what I've got at the moment.

And there isn't going to be anything beyong AGP3.0 so there is no point in waiting for the next spec.
12-15-2003, 04:07 AM
Livy

Quote:

Originally posted by lynx+15 December 2003 - 04:05--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lynx @ 15 December 2003 - 04:05)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Livy@15 December 2003 - 02:58
you could get a new board?

i just got this board http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/components...?quicklinx=2Q7L
which is http://www.biostar.com.tw/products/mainboa...php3?name=M7NCD

and its pretty cheap/

and you can see from here http://www.bjorn3d.com/_preview.php?articleID=288 the pro version is ok.

i havent tested the board yet as i havent got the rest of the parts yet, but it should be on wednesday.

When I get a new board, I want to get something worthwhile (and have the possibility to upgrade other parts of my system), I can't see any point in getting something which is only marginally better than what I've got at the moment.

And there isn't going to be anything beyong AGP3.0 so there is no point in waiting for the next spec. [/b][/quote]
suppose, my old board doesnt even have an agp port, its about 5 years old, amd k6-2 500. you could try contacting the company for the card to see if it will work?
12-15-2003, 04:08 AM
lynx

Quote:

Originally posted by Livy+15 December 2003 - 03:00--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Livy @ 15 December 2003 - 03:00)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Quote:

Originally posted by lynx@15 December 2003 - 03:59
<!--QuoteBegin-DWk

Quote:

@15 December 2003 - 02:54
4x for a dx9 card? tsk tsk.... no comments :rolleyes:

Maybe you should read the specs for 4x and 8x. And look at the benchmarks. There's really not much difference at the moment since the rest of MOST systems can't provide data fast enough. :P

or you could just go for it?

edit: or try contacting the manufacturer for one of the cards, like the hightech one i posted, since its the cheapest ati based dx9 card. [/b][/quote]
I've already decided to go for the NVidia card. Remember one thing - WE ARE THE CUSTOMERS - if they can't get their documentation right, what chance it there that they've got the hardware or the drivers right. If they are sloppy in one area, they are likely to be sloppy in others.
12-15-2003, 04:10 AM
Livy

Quote:

Originally posted by lynx+15 December 2003 - 04:08--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (lynx @ 15 December 2003 - 04:08)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Quote:

Originally posted by Livy@15 December 2003 - 03:00

Quote:

Originally posted by lynx@15 December 2003 - 03:59
<!--QuoteBegin-DWk

Quote:

Quote:

@15 December 2003 - 02:54
4x for a dx9 card? tsk tsk.... no comments :rolleyes:

Maybe you should read the specs for 4x and 8x. And look at the benchmarks. There's really not much difference at the moment since the rest of MOST systems can't provide data fast enough. :P

or you could just go for it?

edit: or try contacting the manufacturer for one of the cards, like the hightech one i posted, since its the cheapest ati based dx9 card.

I've already decided to go for the NVidia card. Remember one thing - WE ARE THE CUSTOMERS - if they can't get their documentation right, what chance it there that they've got the hardware or the drivers right. If they are sloppy in one area, they are likely to be sloppy in others. [/b][/quote]
suppose. i have just got a radeon 9200se from hightech. so they better not be to bad. :(
12-15-2003, 04:59 AM
3RA1N1AC

Quote:

Originally posted by lynx@14 December 2003 - 19:19
But if they can't be bothered to give proper specifications, they can stick their cards where the video don't shine. I'm not going to risk my money buying something that isn't quoted as being compatible.

lynx, i thought you had a bit of common sense... :unsure:

typically people are willing to switch graphics cards much more often than their motherboards. there are thousands upon thousands of customers who've bought the latest graphics cards from ATI and have had no problem using them on fairly old motherboards-- you can take a look around a site like futuremark.com (where people post their benchmarks scores & hardware specs) and see for yourself. if there were such a thing as a mainstream graphics card that only supports AGP 8X (and not 4X or 2X), we would have all heard about it.
12-15-2003, 06:17 AM
johnboy27

Quote:

Originally posted by Livy+15 December 2003 - 05:10--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Livy @ 15 December 2003 - 05:10)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Quote:

Originally posted by lynx@15 December 2003 - 04:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Livy@15 December 2003 - 03:00

Quote:

Originally posted by lynx@15 December 2003 - 03:59
<!--QuoteBegin-DWk

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

@15 December 2003 - 02:54
4x for a dx9 card? tsk tsk.... no comments :rolleyes:

Maybe you should read the specs for 4x and 8x. And look at the benchmarks. There's really not much difference at the moment since the rest of MOST systems can't provide data fast enough. :P

or you could just go for it?

edit: or try contacting the manufacturer for one of the cards, like the hightech one i posted, since its the cheapest ati based dx9 card.

I've already decided to go for the NVidia card. Remember one thing - WE ARE THE CUSTOMERS - if they can't get their documentation right, what chance it there that they've got the hardware or the drivers right. If they are sloppy in one area, they are likely to be sloppy in others.

suppose. i have just got a radeon 9200se from hightech. so they better not be to bad. :( [/b][/quote]
I have a radeon 9200 se also,not too bad of a card.I am not a big gamer or anything like that but it seems to run pretty good to me.Mine is only running at 4x though due to my motherbaord.
12-15-2003, 03:09 PM
lynx

Quote:

Originally posted by 3RA1N1AC+15 December 2003 - 03:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3RA1N1AC @ 15 December 2003 - 03:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lynx@14 December 2003 - 19:19
But if they can't be bothered to give proper specifications, they can stick their cards where the video don't shine. I'm not going to risk my money buying something that isn't quoted as being compatible.

lynx, i thought you had a bit of common sense... :unsure:

typically people are willing to switch graphics cards much more often than their motherboards. there are thousands upon thousands of customers who've bought the latest graphics cards from ATI and have had no problem using them on fairly old motherboards-- you can take a look around a site like futuremark.com (where people post their benchmarks scores & hardware specs) and see for yourself. if there were such a thing as a mainstream graphics card that only supports AGP 8X (and not 4X or 2X), we would have all heard about it. [/b][/quote]
There are already motherboards which won't even power on if you plug in anything less than an AGP 3.0 card, so I'm quite sure there are graphics cards which won't work in anything less than an AGP 3.0 slot.

AGP 3.0 cards have to be guaranteed not to blow if you plug them into an incompatible AGP slot, but they don't have to work.

Anyway, it's too late now, Nvidia card on it's way.
12-16-2003, 04:01 AM
3RA1N1AC

Quote:

Originally posted by lynx@15 December 2003 - 07:09
AGP 3.0 cards have to be guaranteed not to blow if you plug them into an incompatible AGP slot, but they don't have to work.

obviously. but you ignored a key word from my post-- "mainstream." neither Nvidia nor ATI is going to release a card that the average newbie can walk into a department store and pick up, only to find out that it doesn't work with his 6 month old motherboard because the card isn't backwards compatible with the previous AGP spec.

if you buy a mainstream AGP 8X card, you can do so with 99% confidence that it will be compatible with AGP 4X... with a slight possibility that it has AGP 2X or 1X compatibility.
12-16-2003, 10:28 AM
lynx

You may well be right.

But my point was the documentation. Is it so hard for Ati to state the minimum requirements like Nvidia do?
12-16-2003, 03:56 PM
Virtualbody1234

Did you get your new card yet?
12-16-2003, 04:12 PM
lynx

Ordered but not delivered yet.
Standard delivery on ebuyer is "Deliver by Thu 18 Dec 2003".
Order status is "Pick In Progress", so it will be probably be shipped tonight and arrive tomorrow.

Then I can play my new games. :rolleyes:

The time now is 11:05 AM