Israeli Ambassador

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Mazel was asked to leave Stockholm's Museum of Antiquities Friday after he interfered with an exhibit by Israeli artist Dror Feiler, who has lived in Sweden for 30 years. Entitled Snow White and the Madness of Truth, the exhibit features a photo of 29-year-old Hanadi Jaradat, who killed herself and 19 Israelis at a beachfront restaurant in October.

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Full Story

Any toughs about this?

Personally I think that you could interpreted art in manny different ways, but a picture of a suicide bomber floating in blood well lets just say that I wouldn't see that as a tribute to terrorism.
and even if that was the case It would fall under the freedom of speech act/law and still be legal if not inappropriate.

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The exhibit is part of the "Making Differences" exhibition, staged in advance of an upcoming anti-genocide conference hosted by the Swedish government.

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.As an "art piece" it is amatuer symbolism (the dramatic music in the background even worse so)
It is therefore not good that the "artist" gets publicity for it - especially since there are billions of these politically correct - anti politic works -to be found among squatters and so called anarchists-it is not art.
Had a normal person reacted to the work in such away - the "artist" would understand and probably respect
The isreali ambassador needs to get out more - does he react this way to every anti isrealli caricatures.
It is not often that people react in such an emotional way to art - this is an honor.
I find Sharons statement that the art piece must be removed ridiculous and only "glorifies" the piece which should be simply disregarded.
and blaming it as anti semetic is dangerous but then again that is always their excuse.

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Dror Feiler is a musician/composer who was born in Tel Aviv in 1951 but now (2002) lives in Stockholm. He moved to Sweden in 1973 after completing service as a parachutist in the Israeli Defense Force. Feiler was one of the early refuseniks in 1970 when he turned down service in Gaza, then under the command of Ariel Sharon. Currently (2002) he is president of Jews for Israeli Palestinian Peace (JIPF). The group has been organizing Jewish activists in Sweden against the occupation ever since its inception in 1982. JIPF actively works with Palestinian organizations on such projects as joint delegations to officials of the Swedish government.

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well, how would you feel if someone came and killed your son, and then that same murderer (or suicide bomber in this case) was sybolized as a hero as an artifact in a museum?
i think you would probably feel like you would want to ruin that "art" peice right?


tralalala

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Originally posted by tralalala@21 January 2004 - 13:51
well, how would you feel if someone came and killed your son, and then that same murderer (or suicide bomber in this case) was sybolized as a hero as an artifact in a museum?
i think you would probably feel like you would want to ruin that "art" peice right?


tralalala

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Thats just the thing I don't think she's portrayed as a hero. but even if that was the case I still don't think it should be censured, and certainly not by a foreign government.

I agree whit Zedaxax

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.As an "art piece" it is amatuer symbolism

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but not with

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Had a normal person reacted to the work in such away - the "artist" would understand and probably respect

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If a normal person decided that they didn't like a piece of art displayed in a museum and started to trash it they would be prosecuted for vandalism

well, i dont think that the person that made it thought she WASNT a hero...

also, its sad to see that sweden, a country israel has good relations with suddenly allows this... and in a museum!! :o



tralalala

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suddenly allows this... and in a museum!!

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:blink: where else dude?
You sound as over excited as the embassador - if you think that this should be prohibited go check out some images in rotten.com

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Originally posted by ButWay@21 January 2004 - 13:06

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Mazel was asked to leave Stockholm's Museum of Antiquities Friday after he interfered with an exhibit by Israeli artist Dror Feiler, who has lived in Sweden for 30 years. Entitled Snow White and the Madness of Truth, the exhibit features a photo of 29-year-old Hanadi Jaradat, who killed herself and 19 Israelis at a beachfront restaurant in October.

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Full Story

Any toughs about this?

Personally I think that you could interpreted art in manny different ways, but a picture of a suicide bomber floating in blood well lets just say that I wouldn't see that as a tribute to terrorism.
and even if that was the case It would fall under the freedom of speech act/law and still be legal if not inappropriate.

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sad

Killing yourself would not solve a problem, finally - believe or not, if commit
suicide, he is dead and is no longer a problem, if he is alive demonstrating ...

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Killing yourself would not solve a problem, finally - believe or not, if commit
suicide, he is dead and is no longer a problem, if he is alive demonstrating ...

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does suicide bombing count as demonstrating internetnews?

Hello!

Since I am Swede I know the full story that did not get out abroad!

This was a planed action by the Israeli ambassador. When he first arrived to the museum he moved very quickly and determined. Then when he arrived to the yard at which this particular art exhibition where placed he started to attack the artist and then the art itself very quicly it is quite obvious this was not just a impulsive act even though he claims it was it was a planed action.

As for the art piece itself it did not glorify any suicide bomber. the key is to read the associated text that is part of the art piece. It explains the intention of this artwork and the story behind the girl appearing on the picture.

Currently talks are beeing made between the Swedish government and the Israeli government to solve this situation. The Swedish foreign minister thinks that Ariel Sharons statement are just a missunderstanding and that he does not know the full story.

Why is it when something/someone is seen to critise or offend Israel/Jews that it's Automaticly painted as racist, the same thing happened in Sydney when Hanan Ashrawi was awarded the Sydney Peace Prize :huh:

Israel oppresses the Palestinians.... if ur not biased(racially :P ) it is clear
The people of the world and the U.S. have to stop Israel before they go to far!
:ghostface:


but that doesn&#39;t mean that I support the controversial art in sweeden either <_< :)

So this Jewish artist hates Jews?

Like saying Martin Luther King hated Black people........talk about clutching at straws.

The "Anti-Semetic" statements that Sharon and co come out with at every opportunity are probably the "Cause" in any anti-semetic feelings on the rise.



Someone should tell them the story of the boy that cried "wolf"

Here&#39;s the reuters Video

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=4152404

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Originally posted by internet.news@21 January 2004 - 20:30
finally - believe or not, if commit
suicide, he is dead and is no longer a problem, if he is alive demonstrating ...

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id rather palestinians being alive and demonstrating in a conventional way than going and blowing themselves up and killing innocent civilians....



tralalala

From what&#39;s been reported, I can guess that it wasn&#39;t only this art piece that threw him off. This exhibit was tied to a conference on genocide. I don&#39;t know what art regarding Israel was doing there, but OK... 3 pieces on Israel/Palestine were there and all 3 presented the view from the Palestinian side. (Yes, I think this vandalized piece was pro-Palestinian and the artist is known to be virulently anti-Israel.) It&#39;s been reported that there was 1 piece that represented the Israeli view but it was pulled after pressure from Syria. I&#39;m sure that the amabassador knew about this.

Also keep in mind the huge rise in anti-semitism in Europe over the past few years and the report that linked this rise to growing Muslim youth in Europe.The report was pushed aside last year by the EU.

Not to mention the hugely popular anti-Israel attitude in Europe. In fact, there was a poll just a few months ago where Europeans named Israel as the planet&#39;s greatest threat to world peace. WTF? Can you say brainwashed?

As far as connecting anti-semitism and anti-Israel, I think that Arafat himself is the sole person responsible here. It was he, who as leader of the PLO, ordered airline hijackings and cruise ship hijacking in which jewish civilians were singled out not because they were Israeli (which they weren&#39;t), but because they were Jewish. Why are synagogues around Europe and Australia and Northern Africa being attacked? Why do Muslim extremists blow up Jewish community centres, like in Argentina?

I&#39;m sorry folks, but likening anti-Israel views to anti-semitism has only popped up because Jews around the world have become the target of those who disagree with Israel.

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Originally posted by putty+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (putty)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Not to mention the hugely popular anti-Israel attitude in Europe. In fact, there was a poll just a few months ago where Europeans named Israel as the planet&#39;s greatest threat to world peace. WTF? Can you say brainwashed? [/b]

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What makes you think you guys arent brainwashed into believing the Palestinians are solely to blame? :)

Also, there is no massive increase in anti-semitism, at least not in the UK. I live near Gateshead, one of the biggest Jewish centres in the UK and I can assure you its quite peaceful. I&#39;m sorry to say this but Im getting really sick of hearing this anti-<insert group here> crap all the time. If you criticise the US your anti-American, if you criticise Israel your anti-semitic. Its an insult to the memory of the people murdered in the holocaust to bring up anti-semitism as the trump card everytime someone disagrees with Israeli policy.

The reason people are against Israel at the moment is because they&#39;re meant to be a civilized nation yet they are acting like terrorists. They kill innocent people every day and call it self defence. If the Palestinian terrorists were pretending to be a civilized nation they&#39;d be joint 1st with Israel in that poll.

So no... its not anti-semitism, we just disagree with Israeli Gvt policy.

<!--QuoteBegin-putty
I&#39;m sorry folks, but likening anti-Israel views to anti-semitism has only popped up because Jews around the world have become the target of those who disagree with Israel.[/quote]

Thats actually quite offensive. The link between anti-semitism and anti-Israeli views is being pushed hard by Israeli politicians and Jewish lobby groups in America. The article that was originally posted is a perfect example of this &#39;strategy&#39;. The artist in question is Jewish so hes hardly likely to be a raving anti-semite is he? If you listen to the Israeli Gvt he is though.

If you really want to dig into how the US media works find out who owns the major networks and their religeous affiliation. This isnt anti-semitic either, all races and religeons have a tendency to "look after their own". This might help to explain why everyone I&#39;ve ever talked to from the US seems to think that the Palestinians are solely to blame for the troubles.

You wont hear many people in the UK attributing blame 100% to either side. Which makes you think.. who are the brainwashed ones? :)

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What makes you think you guys arent brainwashed into believing the Palestinians are solely to blame? :)

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You either misunderstood or are inserting your own prejudices here. I never said that the Palestinians are solely to blame for the current situation.

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Also, there is no massive increase in anti-semitism, at least not in the UK.

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If you say so. It&#39;s too bad that a study released in 2003 by the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC) said just the opposite. It points to an increase in anti-semitic attacks and specifically found a turning point of October 2000. Coincidently, that was the start of the latest intifadah.

In your UK, they reported 22 synagogue attacks in the 22 months prior to Oct 2000 and 78 such attacks in the 22 months after Oct 2000. But hey, if you say that there is no increase I&#39;ll take your word for it. The data shows that an increasing number of anti-semitic attacks are being purpetrated by Muslim youth and other supporters of the Palestinians including the Left wing ant-globalization crowd. The report concluded that the line of anti-Israel criticism and anti-semitism has been crossed and cited many instances of using old anti-semitic stereotypes as part of criticism of Israel. It also cited the fact that swastikas are commonly seen at anti-Israel rallies. Not to mention the fact that the fabricated Protocols of the Elders of Zion was widely seen at the Durban Conference on racism in South Africa that became an anti-Israel conference for all intents & purposes.

After the EUMC commissioned this report, they decided not to publish it, objecting to the way it was conducted. One of the German members of the EUMC called the non-release of this report "appalling". Berlin&#39;s Technical University, which conducted the study for EUMC said that the EUMC signed off on the design and parameters of it and only objected when they saw the results. Since 9/11, the EUMC has published 3 anti-Islamicism studies and have yet to publish and anti-semitism one despite the glaring rise.

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The artist in question is Jewish so hes hardly likley to be a raving anti-semite is he? If you listen to the Israeli Gvt he is though.

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Again, I think that you&#39;ve misunderstood. The question is why was Israel a topic at an exhibit related to a conference on genocide. Why were the three pieces related to Israel showing things from the Palestinian view? Why the lone opposing piece objected to by Syria and so, was not displayed?

I found it very amusing that the Swedish representatives went on about how there is no excuse for violence. You can disagree and vent your disatisfaction but there is no need to ruin the display. This is all about a display that itself tries to explain how semingly normal people get pushed to violence&#33; Nice double-standard.

This is a microcosm of the greater view that Israel is being singled out. Why were there no exhibits displaying the beauty of Chechen suicide bombers? Iraqi suicide bombers? 9/11 suicide bombers? Why are there no sweeping street protests complaining about the occupation of Kurdish land? Why no protests about Syria (a supporter of the terrorist Hezbollah group) that is occupying Lebanon?

Do you think that Israel is the greatest threat to world peace? Most of your fellow Eurpeans do. Even the results of that portion of the poll were called "unstable" and the held back by the EU as they released the results of portions of the same poll related to Iraq. It&#39;s laughable.

European leaders and the press have crossed the line so many times that they&#39;ve convinced their populations that Israel is (to quote the French amabassador to the UK), "a shitty little country".

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If you really want to dig into how the US media works find out who owns the major networks and their religeous affiliation.

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:helpsmile:

According to the EUMC report&#39;s definition of anti-semiticism, the 1st form is "...the assumption that Jews are in control of what happens in the world, whether it be through financial or media power, whether it be the concealed political influence mainly exerted on the USA..."

Congrats&#33;

Now, if you want to learn something about truth... GE (NBC) is the biggest media company and is publicly owned. Time Warner (CNN) is also public. So Sony, Disney(ABC), Viacom (CBS), MGM, Clear Channel and most other media giants. One that is privately owned is Fox, owned by Rupert Murdoch who is not a Jew.

You can take that to whoever misinformed you.

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You wont hear many people in the UK attributing blame 100% to either side. Which makes you think.. who are the brainwashed ones

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And in spite of serious disagreements among Jews & Muslims relating to the current conflict, have you ever thought about why there are no Jews attacking Muslims in Argentina, Turkey, France, UK and elsewhere? Why do Jews & Muslims living within Israel get along quite well, although there are obviously trying moments.

Why do you not find Israeli newspapers publishing reports about how Muslims use Jewish childrens&#39; blood in cooking the Eid feast? FYI, this is what the Saudi official govt. newspaper published around 2 years ago in regards to the holiday of Purim and the Jewish use of blood from Muslim children to bake cookies. It gave a detailed description ofhow this is done. Egyptian govt TV last year showed a miniseries re-enacting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

I&#39;m sorry but it does seem that your anti-Israel stance has been hijacked by those who use it as a thinly veiled disguise for anti-semitism. Just like Islam as a religion has been hijacked by those using as an excuse for their violence.

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Originally posted by putty@24 January 2004 - 07:02
It&#39;s been reported that there was 1 piece that represented the Israeli view but it was pulled after pressure from Syria.

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Where did you hear that, in fox news?

there will be an Israeli artist displaying he&#39;s work but he got delayed, for he&#39;s own reasons.
And on a side note the Israeli artist thought that it was crazy starting all this beef over a piece of art that could be interpreted in Manny different ways

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Originally posted by putty
According to the EUMC report&#39;s definition of anti-semiticism, the 1st form is "...the assumption that Jews are in control of what happens in the world, whether it be through financial or media power, whether it be the concealed political influence mainly exerted on the USA..."

Congrats&#33;

Now, if you want to learn something about truth... GE (NBC) is the biggest media company and is publicly owned. Time Warner (CNN) is also public. So Sony, Disney(ABC), Viacom (CBS), MGM, Clear Channel and most other media giants. One that is privately owned is Fox, owned by Rupert Murdoch who is not a Jew.

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According to the law of the Talmud and the present laws of Israel, Rupert Murdoch is a Jew. His father married Elisabeth Joy Greene who is from a wealthy Jewish family.

As for those other companies, just because they are "publicly owned" means nothing. Shareholders do not get to make decisions about the political stance an organisation will take. As long as the profits keep flowing in they are happy bunnies. :)

Is it anti-semitic to point out that huge swathes of the media are owned by Jew&#39;s and thus put forward a pro-Israel stance? If it is then that means you&#39;re anti-muslim for pointing out the anti-Israel stance that the Saudi media takes.

Now.. this huge rise in anti-semitism in the UK.. who am I to say anything? I only live 10 miles from the biggest Jewish centre in the UK so what do I know&#33;

It may be different in France and other countries with large populations of muslim youth but I can only speak from local knowledge of the UK.

Now.. the reason you are not seeing "exhibits displaying the beauty of Chechen suicide bombers? Iraqi suicide bombers? 9/11 suicide bombers?" etc is because they are TERRORISTS not civilized governments. There is nothing noteworthy in a snake biting you, its a god damn snake what do you expect? If a person bites you its a different matter and will obviously attract more attention.

The fact is that in Europe we have a far more balanced view of the middle east situation compared to the USA, and because we are not fanatically pro-Israel like much of the US seems to be, the pro-Israel lobby is trying to put it down to nothing but anti-semitism.

I am not saying that anti-semitism doesnt exist, I&#39;m just vehemently opposed to this ludicrous notion put forward by pro-Jewish groups that the only reason Europe disagrees with Israeli foreign policy is because we&#39;re all a bunch of Jew haters. I find that extremely offensive.

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Originally posted by leftism@24 January 2004 - 23:44
The fact is that in Europe we have a far more balanced view of the middle east situation compared to the USA, and because we are not fanatically pro-Israel like much of the US seems to be, the pro-Israel lobby is trying to put it down to nothing but anti-semitism.

I am not saying that anti-semitism doesnt exist, I&#39;m just vehemently opposed to this ludicrous notion put forward by pro-Jewish groups that the only reason Europe disagrees with Israeli foreign policy is because we&#39;re all a bunch of Jew haters. I find that extremely offensive.

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I find it extremely offensive to be called "fanatically pro-Israel".

Do you mean that your "policies" toward Israel are more "balanced" than the "US" or that your citizens because, of your unique unbiased BBC (which we have absolutely no access to), have a more accurate picture of what is going in Israel? Your use of the phrase "much of the US" suggests to me that you are talking about the people, not our policies. I could be wrong.

As I have said many times, the average American does not even know where Israel is and certainly couldn&#39;t give a shit. Certainly most Americans can see the "protective wall"(Which, of course, we don&#39;t know about) being built is a covert way of driving Palestineans from their land.

We probably have as many Jews here as there are in Israel itself. These people are certainly active and influental in promoting pro-Israeli policies, but to characterize most of America as being "fanatically pro-Israeli" is ludicrous.

It is amazing how the use of emotive language totally undermines any credibility the author might have. Typical of EBP.

Hobbes

Alas, it is a complicated world. There are those who would suggest that you are all paid up members of the KKK. However, there is the teeny problem that they didn&#39;t have a lot of time of Jews, Catholics, oh and those of Sub-Saharan origin.

Mutually exclusive springs to mind. But who am I to pee into the wind. (Was that Bob Dylan?)

:blink:

hobbes.

I can only speak about the Americans I have talked to. They were fully aware that billions of their tax
dollars goes to Israel and they were quite happy with that situation. If anyone dared to mention that
Israel may be respnsible for any wrongdoing the suggestion was met with astounding ferocity. I think the
group was alt.politics.middle-east or something like that. You can take a look through google and see what
kind of stuff I&#39;m talking about. This, to me at least, did seem like fanaticism. I&#39;ve never encountered such
a mentality in England and I couldnt think of any other reason why saying that Israel isnt completely
blameless would merit such aggression. I accept that the word &#39;fanatacism&#39; is rather emotive.. but seriously..
you had to be there. The word seemed very fitting at the time.

Now it seems that the USA is being told that we Europeans are just a bunch of closet Nazis and thats
why we dont support everything that Israel does. Again the only explanation I can find is that the US
media must be responsible for this. You know that hardly anyone in the US watches the BBC compared
to Fox, CNN or Sky. So just because the BBC is available in the US doesnt mean that my argument, i.e
that the media is to blame, is incorrect.

PS Sorry if the wrapping on my text is messed up but Im using konqueror in linux. Its a bit different :)
PPS The only EBP I know of is the x86 Extended Base Pointer but I dont think thats what your getting
at?

1. Don&#39;t despair, you may have run into a particularly motivated bunch. Certainly dealing with people that make little to no effort to see both sides tend to cause our emotions to seep into our otherwise objective opinions.

Israel does get a great deal of positive P.R. in the US because there are so many familiar and well loved Jewish people on TV and in the movies (Jerry Seinfeld, Jon Steward, and on and on). An endorsement of association for Israel. People here have so many more "touchstones" with Jewish people than they have with Palestineans.

If I went to work and asked around, most people would probably side with Israel, but overall there is a sense of disinterest and hopelessness about that situation.

There are people on this forum who believe that the conflict is 100% Israels&#39; fault and that the Palestineans have no culpability, so I understand how you could get frustrated.



2. You may be getting some bad info. I certainly am not getting the opinion that you are closet Nazi&#39;s from my TV, nor would I believe it, if I were.

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You know that hardly anyone in the US watches the BBC compared
to Fox, CNN or Sky. So just because the BBC is available in the US doesnt mean that my argument, i.e
that the media is to blame, is incorrect

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Yes, a valid point.

It is just that emotive language and the brainwashed media/ BBC impartiality theme, brought back bad memories from this forums past.

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According to the law of the Talmud and the present laws of Israel, Rupert Murdoch is a Jew. His father married Elisabeth Joy Greene who is from a wealthy Jewish family.

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You know... I thought that this was very interesting since it&#39;s the first time I&#39;d heard that he was Jewish. I decided to look it up and I have to say that the only websites where I found this mentioned was on alternative history websites or severely anti-semitic (yes, anti-semitic) sites. Coincidently, the same little blurb about "according to the Talmud and present laws of Israel" was also used on each of these sites. These sites all spoke of Murdoch being Jewish in the context of a vast Jewish conspiracy in which Murdoch as well as many other Jews knew of 9/11 weeks before it happened, implying that Jews were the purpetrators.

Example:
direct quote from convicted holocaust denier David Irving&#39;s site: "And that, as I am sure you know, makes him a Jew according to the law of the Talmud, and indeed according to the present laws of Israel."
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/05/Murdoch2.html

Other sites that repeat the same thing pretty much word for word are "truthseeker" and "the unjust media", two virulently anti-semitic sites.
Now, why your own words are so close to those of David Irving&#39;s..... my mind can only wonder.

I now feel no need to respond to the rest of your post since one thing the internet has taught me is not to bother debating with folks who believe crap like this.But whatever, I&#39;m a slow learner.

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As for those other companies, just because they are "publicly owned" means nothing. Shareholders do not get to make decisions about the political stance an organisation will take. As long as the profits keep flowing in they are happy bunnies.

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You need to learn something about public corporations. They do answer to their shareholders. Profits depend on this. If you don&#39;t believe me, go read an economics book. The least you can do is admit that you were wrong about these companies being owned by Jews.

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Is it anti-semitic to point out that huge swathes of the media are owned by Jew&#39;s and thus put forward a pro-Israel stance?

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It is anti-semitic if it&#39;s not true.

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Now.. this huge rise in anti-semitism in the UK.. who am I to say anything? I only live 10 miles from the biggest Jewish centre in the UK so what do I know&#33;

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So, because you live 10 miles (that ain&#39;t so close, my friend&#33;&#33;) from a Jewish community centre, you feel that you know of the plight of anti-semitism in the UK better than an EU commission&#39;s detailed study. P&#39;shaw&#33; :D

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Now.. the reason you are not seeing "exhibits displaying the beauty of Chechen suicide bombers? Iraqi suicide bombers? 9/11 suicide bombers?" etc is because they are TERRORISTS not civilized governments.

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You&#39;ve confused yourself here. This doesn&#39;t make sense. Are you saying that Palestinian suicide bombers killing children at cafes and night clubs and restaurants are not terrorists, like Chechen suicide bombers or Iraqi suicide bombers that are trying to drive out the US occupation forces?

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The fact is that in Europe we have a far more balanced view of the middle east situation compared to the USA, and because we are not fanatically pro-Israel...

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How sinple life must be to know that you are so even-minded and balanced whereas those other people are so blinded by money and media influence. Now, pray tell, how do you know that it&#39;s not YOU who is blinded by the BBC and The Guardian (owned by a massively rich and far Left Scott Trust, which owns The Observer among a couple dozen other major newspapers & magazines) who are biased in their own right? With so many more Muslims that Jews in the UK and the rest of Europe, how do you know that you&#39;re not getting pro-Palestinian info because that&#39;s who the media plays to?

Jeez, how easy it must be to know that you are of such a free mind while everyone else is biased and blinded.

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Originally posted by putty+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (putty)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You know... I thought that this was very interesting since it&#39;s the first time I&#39;d heard that he was Jewish. I decided to look it up and I have to say that the only websites where I found this mentioned was on alternative history websites or severely anti-semitic (yes, anti-semitic) sites. Coincidently, the same little blurb about "according to the Talmud and present laws of Israel" was also used on each of these sites. These sites all spoke of Murdoch being Jewish in the context of a vast Jewish conspiracy in which Murdoch as well as many other Jews knew of 9/11 weeks before it happened, implying that Jews were the purpetrators.

Example:
direct quote from convicted holocaust denier David Irving&#39;s site: "And that, as I am sure you know, makes him a Jew according to the law of the Talmud, and indeed according to the present laws of Israel."
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/05/Murdoch2.html

Other sites that repeat the same thing pretty much word for word are "truthseeker" and "the unjust media", two virulently anti-semitic sites.
Now, why your own words are so close to those of David Irving&#39;s..... my mind can only wonder. [/b]

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Interesting. You havent denied Rupert Murdoch is Jewish. Believe it or not but I do not copy and paste crap from Anti-semitic nutcases.

Lets leave your paranoiac fantasies to one side for a moment and focus on the facts.

Fact: Rupert Murdochs father married into a Jewish family
Fact: According to Jewish tradition this makes him a Jew.

Does this mean the Jews are out to rule the world? No.
Does this mean they knew about 9/11? No.
Does it mean that Rupert Murdoch may be motivated to present a pro-Israeli viewpoint through his media outlets? Yes.
Can you provide an alternative reason as to why so many media stations are vehemently pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian? No.

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Originally posted by putty+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (putty)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You need to learn something about public corporations. They do answer to their shareholders. Profits depend on this. If you don&#39;t believe me, go read an economics book.[/b]

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It&#39;s quite clear that profit margins are not adversely affected by portraying a pro-Israel stance. Day to day running of these corporations is not handled by shareholders. My point stands.

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Originally posted by putty
So, because you live 10 miles (that ain&#39;t so close, my friend&#33;&#33;) from a Jewish community centre, you feel that you know of the plight of anti-semitism in the UK better than an EU commission&#39;s detailed study. P&#39;shaw

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This would be the same EU study that wasnt published because of anti-semitism in the EU? I wonder... is there anything you cant explain away with anti-semitism? Apparently not.

Maybe the authorities are involved in an anti-semitic conspiracy in my local area to make sure that news of all these anti-semitic attacks aren&#39;t shown on the local news?

<!--QuoteBegin-putty@
How sinple life must be to know that you are so even-minded and balanced whereas those other people are so blinded by money and media influence. Now, pray tell, how do you know that it&#39;s not YOU who is blinded by the BBC and The Guardian (owned by a massively rich and far Left Scott Trust, which owns The Observer among a couple dozen other major newspapers & magazines)
who are biased in their own right?
[/quote]

What do they have to gain from being anti-semitic or anti-Israel? What motivation do they have for feeding us all these lies? Are the owners mulsims? Are they Palestinians?

Of course thats ignoring the fact that these media outlets do not apportion blame to one side exclusively and that they also show the terrible suffering endured by BOTH sides in this conflict.

<!--QuoteBegin-putty
With so many more Muslims that Jews in the UK and the rest of Europe, how do you know that you&#39;re not getting pro-Palestinian info because that&#39;s who the media plays to?[/quote]

lol... the entire non-white population of the UK is around 5-6%. Se lets be excessively generous and say 3% of the UK population are muslims. Your now arguing that the media in the UK is giving a pro-Palestinian viewpoint (which they are not) to secure the sales of newspapers to 3% of the population whilst ignoring what the other 97% may think of this?

You&#39;ve come to this conclusion based on the fact that the UK media in general is not 100% supportive of Israel and doesnt blame the Palestinians exclusively for the problems in the middle east?

Thats the true measure of how biased the US media has become. Anything other than total unconditional support for Israel is construed as rampant anti-semitism.

Thats what this is all about, and now the political pressure is being applied to the EU because of the crime of disagreeing with Israels policies. If that means labelling the population of Europe as Nazis... so be it. What if you&#39;re a European and you have a problem with the people who are pushing this argument like crazy in the US? Got it one&#33; Your anti-semitic&#33;

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Interesting. You havent denied Rupert Murdoch is Jewish. Believe it or not but I do not copy and paste crap from Anti-semitic nutcases.

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Please provide proof of his Jewish mother. Give me a link.

I find it very funny that every anti-semitic website words it in the way that "his father married a wealthy Jewish family... making him Jewish according to the Talmud... blah blah and laws of Israel", as opposed to a simple "his mother is Jewish." And I find it hysterical that this is word for word how you wrote it&#33; :D

So, give me a link to support your statement. I don&#39;t believe you. I don&#39;t believe that he is Jewish.

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It&#39;s quite clear that profit margins are not adversely affected by portraying a pro-Israel stance. Day to day running of these corporations is not handled by shareholders. My point stands

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.

Sigh. You said that these companies are all owned byJews. You were wrong. Be a man and admit it that your fantasies of a wealthy Jew-owned media spewing 100% pro-Israel crap on TV stations that you&#39;ve never seen is dead wrong.

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This would be the same EU study that wasnt published because of anti-semitism in the EU?

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Um no. It&#39;s the same study that was not published because they did not want to fess up to the results showing that anti-semitic attacks were on a steep rise and related the Israel/Palestine conflict. Hence, the attacks were crossing the line from anti-Israel to anti-semitism.

This doesn&#39;t reflect kindly on their oh so even-handed Middle East policy. Neither does the fact that Europeans now view Israel as the world&#39;s greatest threat to peace. Must be all that even-handedness&#33; "D

I dont know if he has a Jewish Mother and was brought up as a Jew or not, he certainly hasnt ever denied it. Although this may or may not matter, depending upon how he feels about his faith (or indeed, if he follows any faith)

I do know that he is very good friends with Mr Sharron though, and has been since the early 1980&#39;s at least. Mr Sharron, in my opinion, is a person that should be in Jail for crimes against humanity (and yes, so should a number of Islamic and christian leaders, this isnt anti-jew/israel) and to be friends with such a person does not endear him to me.

Fox is owned by News Corporation...ie Rupert Murdoch

CNN former CEO was Mr Isaacson, dont know who the new guy is..however the network is owned by TBS, which in turn is owned by Time Warner.

ABC joint CEO&#39;s I believe are Lloyd Braun (remember the piss takes on Seinfeld?)and Stu Bloomberg. The company is owned by Walt Disney, CEO Michael Eisner, known for his macro management style...


Between them Rupert Murdoch and Michael Eisener could be perceived to control most of the US media...

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Originally posted by putty@25 January 2004 - 19:45


Please provide proof of his Jewish mother. Give me a link.

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Tap tap tap.

I hope you dont think the Australian Broadcasting Corporation is anti-semitic...

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/series4/9906.htm

Are you now going to start arguing that the Greene (her maiden name) family aren&#39;t Jewish?

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Originally posted by leftism@29 January 2004 - 11:05
I hope you dont think the Australian Broadcasting Corporation is anti-semitic...

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/series4/9906.htm

Are you now going to start arguing that the Greene (her maiden name) family aren&#39;t Jewish?

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Are you now going to start arguing that the Greene (her maiden name) family aren&#39;t Jewish?

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:)

I already knew that his mother was Greene. That wasn&#39;t the question here. You were supposed to provide a link attesting to their Jewishness.

I&#39;d be very interested in reading about her Judaism. Please educate me.

All I could find is that in 1942 she launched a Good Friday appeal for the Melbourne Children&#39;s Hospital.

You might have been interested to see a news report on UK television last week. It showed Palestinian kids (about 7 or 8 years old) throwing stones and rubbish at an Israeli tank. The tank opened fire with it&#39;s machine gun. Such a well balanced response from those nice Israeli soldiers, their ears must have been ringing from the clatter of stones.

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Originally posted by putty@29 January 2004 - 17:23


I already knew that his mother was Greene. That wasn&#39;t the question here. You were supposed to provide a link attesting to their Jewishness.

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Man of the Year

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The "Man-of-the Year" award was conferred upon Murdoch for his dedication to the communications industry, the Jewish community and the State of Israel.

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Robert Maxwell is a past example of how the Israeli government echelon fosters the link with Jewish tycoons. And Benjamin Netanyahu was happy to take part in the event via satellite and to embrace Murdoch verbally with Prime Ministerial warmth.

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"I am proud to accept this award", said Murdoch. "The Jewish national goal has always been important to me, to my family and to my company"

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The thing is...being Jewish/Islamic/Christian etc has sod all to do with running a company, nor indeed is it anyones business.

The only websites that would actually look into this type of thing are those with their own agendas. This doesnt mean that those websites are lying, just that you must bear their agenda in mind when you read them.

Although i am not going to go looking all over the net for public domain knowledge..ie Rupert Murdoch has links with Israel... here is a business site (not a political site) based in Israel.

Maybe you&#39;ll believe their own words?

Its a lot easier showing evidence that he&#39;s a lying, treacherous bastard (ir-respective of his social/religious/business beliefs).....i&#39;ll let you look up those examples yourself? ;)

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Originally posted by lynx@29 January 2004 - 19:09
You might have been interested to see a news report on UK television last week. It showed Palestinian kids (about 7 or 8 years old) throwing stones and rubbish at an Israeli tank. The tank opened fire with it&#39;s machine gun. Such a well balanced response from those nice Israeli soldiers, their ears must have been ringing from the clatter of stones.

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THIS is why Israel is getting such a bad press in Europe.

Hardly mentioned on Sky, or in the News Corp owned media.....however the suicide bombing this morning is all over the place.

Shooting kids from a Tank mustnt be as bad.....

In my opinion, they are both nasty.

Israeli&#39;s did theirs safely from behind armour though, while the Palestinian had nothing left to lose maybe?

The World: Hey Israel, you shouldn&#39;t beat up the Palestinians.

Israel: ANTI-SEMITES&#33; NAZIS&#33; YOU HATE US BECAUSE WE&#39;RE JEWS&#33;


I think we all know that Jews do NOT have a secret plan control the world, AND that people don&#39;t hate Israel for their religion - only their appaling record on human rights.


If anyone from the Israeli government is reading this: Sort your problems with the Palestinians out in a civilized way and the world will stop criticizing you. Take the &#036;3 billion you get from the US every year and buy back some land from the "settlers". Then just give it to the Palestinians. &#036;3 billion a year on weapons hasn&#39;t worked so far, why not try &#036;3 billion on buying them out?

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Originally posted by Rat Faced@29 January 2004 - 20:42

Man of the Year

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The "Man-of-the Year" award was conferred upon Murdoch for his dedication to the communications industry, the Jewish community and the State of Israel.

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Robert Maxwell is a past example of how the Israeli government echelon fosters the link with Jewish tycoons. And Benjamin Netanyahu was happy to take part in the event via satellite and to embrace Murdoch verbally with Prime Ministerial warmth.

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"I am proud to accept this award", said Murdoch. "The Jewish national goal has always been important to me, to my family and to my company"

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The thing is...being Jewish/Islamic/Christian etc has sod all to do with running a company, nor indeed is it anyones business.

The only websites that would actually look into this type of thing are those with their own agendas. This doesnt mean that those websites are lying, just that you must bear their agenda in mind when you read them.

Although i am not going to go looking all over the net for public domain knowledge..ie Rupert Murdoch has links with Israel... here is a business site (not a political site) based in Israel.

Maybe you&#39;ll believe their own words?

Its a lot easier showing evidence that he&#39;s a lying, treacherous bastard (ir-respective of his social/religious/business beliefs).....i&#39;ll let you look up those examples yourself? ;)

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To be truthful, that link does not assert that Murdoch himself is Jewish. He has ties to Israel, yes. He has ties to Jews, yes. He is a Zionist, yes. He is right-wing, yes. He even strongly supports the Likud version of things, yes. Doesn&#39;t mean he&#39;s Jewish.



How&#39;s this:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/07/...6185080569.html

The Age, Melbourne&#39;s largest newspaper had this review of an Australian Broadcasting Corp TV speaial, called "The Murdochs".

When asked what makes Murdoch tick, Tim Clark the series producer & director said: "``The conservative, dour, hardworking Presbyterian with a dash of flamboyant gambler thrown in."


And this:

http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/archive...txt/sep6dc3.htm

Although Murdoch was raised as a Presbyterian, his wife and children are Catholic and the couple was recently awarded a papal award for philanthropy.

And this, in Yahoo&#33;&#39;s 2002 Year in Review:

http://yir.yahoo.com/2002/fi/news_commentary_ft2.html

"I believe in the spirituality of human beings," he says. "I believe in a god. I am not a strictly religious. I was brought up as a Protestant for Wendi] which gave me a great insight into the real strength of the Catholic church."

He says he is considering converting to the Catholic church. Born into a Presbyterian family and educated at an Anglican school, Mr Murdoch says he now regularly attends a Catholic church on Sundays when he is in New York. He and Wendi have agreed that their child Grace will be baptised a Catholic.



Here&#39;s something I found on some racist website that would LOVE to hear that a big media company is Jewish-owned:

http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=6257
Zionist WarMonger Seizes Control Of Britain&#39;s Sky Network
James Murdoch, Son Of Rupert Murdoch, Appointed CEO

London, England -- James Murdoch, son of philo-Semite and Jewish wanna-be Rupert Murdoch, has seized control of Britain Sky Television after his father purchased a 38% ownership of the business.

There&#39;s also this Australian Broadcasting Copr (ABC) site that says that Rupert is a "Knight of St Gregory the Great, thanks to the Catholic Church"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/features/tax/page4.htm

And this:

http://www.totallyjewish.com/community/new...sp_story=FWaqVu

Bucking the current trend in the British Press, The Times has recently been accused of pro-Israeli bias. Former Middle East correspondent Sam Kiley alleged the paper’s policy was dictated by owner Rupert Murdoch and his friendship with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

And this from a self-proclaimed anti-Jew website:

http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/movie68.htm

Rupert Murdoch is not a Jew. Some of the literate Anti-Racist Agitators put down their spleefs and start typing that very statement anytime that Jewish control of the media is brought up.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, please. Enough. Go tell your racist buddies who pass this along the real truth.

The original poster tried to show that Jews own most of the US major media networks. He was proven wrong.

He said that there is no rise in anti-semitism in the UK. He was proven wrong.

You both tried to show that Rupert Murdoch is Jewish. Leftism quoted his &#39;proof&#39; directly from anti-semitic websites. Still, proven wrong.

Anything else?

I did not claim he was Jewish.

In fact i stated i had no idea if he was, but that he had a close friendship with Sharon, and showed evidence that he was very Pro-Israel, to the extent of a former Israeli Prime Minister called him a "Jewish Tycoon"...which is why i posted this. Thought it might show one way or the other, obviously not..not that it matters :P

I also stated he was a bastard and that was very easy to look up. This is what matters


As to the rise in Anti-Semiticism in the UK, i havent commented upon it.

I live about 3 miles away from the Jewish Community in Gateshead, and work there quite often, I have not perceived any rise in anti-jewish sentiment...however I am not in the police or any other organisation that may know better.

In the last 3 years however in Newcastle/Gateshead; 2 Mosques have been attacked and burnt to the ground, and a couple of churches have been vandalised, no synagogues have that im aware of. There are racially motivated attacks in the area..invariably either against Asians by the White thugs or against Whites by the Asian thugs.

Notice i say thugs for both sides...in general both the White community and Asian community get on with life, as do the Jewish

However what trouble there is almost always between White/Asian youths, not White/Jewish or even Asian/Jewish.


I have persistantly said i do not believe in any "Jewish Conspiracy".

I have also said that I can see how it is perceived that the Jewish Community control the media. That "Murdoch is a Jew" propaganda is all over the place, as i said...I also stated that it must be read in the context of the site..ie predominantly anti-Israel or anti-Murdoch (socialist) Websites. It does not therefore surprise me in the slightest that people believe generally that Murdoch is Jewish.

I also said i dont care if hes Jewish, it has nothing to do with how good he is at his job...which is supposedly letting people know what is happening in the world in a balanced and unbiased manner.

He fails in that totally, as does every News Corp owned media it has been my misfortune to see....by the Journalists own words when they leave: The editors censor the Middle East News so that it is all Pro-Israel in these organisations, out of fear of Murdoch...as i said, he is a backstabbing bastard and they are right to fear him.


I believe a few months ago there was a thread asking if the US press was biased. I said then that Journalists often are not, however editors toe the line for the owners if they wanted to stay. This is exactly how News Corp operate.

The other News Organisations mentioned before in the Thread were:

AOL Time Warner: CEO is a well liked Black American with a penchant for history. I cannot find a bad word said about him apart from our own dislike for the company due to its affiliations.

Walt Disney: with its Jewish CEO. I have no idea of his political affiliations, his social beliefs or whether he is a practising Jew. Quite frankly i dont care, it has nothing to do with how he does his Job. As im not American i have no idea as to the slant of the News companies that Walt Disney own.


However, between them News Corp and Disney own and control most US News Media, i can see how it is perceived to be run by the "Jewish Conspiracy", which does not exist.

Untill you educate the rednecks that "Jew" does not mean they are trying to take over the world, this conspiracy theory will continue to crop up.

However it does mean that, at least from the News Corps Companies (as i said i do not know the political slant of the Disney Companies or even if the guy gets involved like Murdoch does), you get a very biased news service in the USA.

By posting the link to the site on Murdoch, I asumed that you were submitting this as evidence of his Jewishness. If I misunderstood, I apologize.

The other stuff I mentioned were directed toward Leftism. He&#39;s the one who began it all anyways. Now, really please tell me something. You seem intelligent and possibly well-read. If not due anti-semitism, why in the world do so many people eat up crap like Jews ownng the media and as part of this proof the idea that Rupert Murdoch tries to hide his Jewishness. All it takes is a simple Google search to find out the truth... it really didn&#39;t take me long.

They are so willing to believe that it is the US that is blatantly biased while Lefty/Socialist/anti-globallization/whatever websites are the only ones who can see through the bias. How does it not smack them in the head to research the info themselves? Once they find that these alternative websites LIE for their cause, how do they continue to believe the other crap?

Friggin lazy ass brains. The Left these days is tired of doing their own thinking. Anything that goes against the US or big corp is good regardless of the truth. They trully make me sick.

And you know why? Because I sway much farther to the Left than the Right on 95% of issues and I hate getting lumped together with this assholes. I&#39;m even toward the Left when it comes to Israel. But these people don&#39;t get it. Unless you say that Israel is apartheid South Africa and Sharon is Hitler, then you&#39;re a right-wing zealot in their view.

I don&#39;t watch/read News Corp. I despise Fox News. They&#39;re tiresome and very biased. But I think it&#39;s time to come clean and admit that the Left is really just as biased and racist. Just diametric opposites.

I doubt we&#39;ll hear from Leftism again in this thread.

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Unless you say that Israel is apartheid South Africa

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It is, 93% of the land is barred to non Jews. When a court challenged this, the govt brought forward new legistlation to further entrench it. You have not disproved this, as you cannot. It is a matter of public record.

Shall I bring up other instances of Isreali apartheid? It is apparent in all forms of daily life.

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Sharon is Hitler

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Sharon isn&#39;t in the same league as Hitler, but that doesn&#39;t mean he isn&#39;t a racist xenophobe who was found guilty (by Isreal) of complicity in the deaths of 1000&#39;s of civilians.

On the topic of Jewish control of the media in the US, it is easy to make a case for but impossible to prove. The real problem is in allowing money to dictate political influence - whether that is the christian right or zionists.

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Originally posted by putty@31 January 2004 - 00:03
By posting the link to the site on Murdoch, I asumed that you were submitting this as evidence of his Jewishness. If I misunderstood, I apologize.

The other stuff I mentioned were directed toward Leftism. He&#39;s the one who began it all anyways. Now, really please tell me something. You seem intelligent and possibly well-read. If not due anti-semitism, why in the world do so many people eat up crap like Jews ownng the media and as part of this proof the idea that Rupert Murdoch tries to hide his Jewishness. All it takes is a simple Google search to find out the truth... it really didn&#39;t take me long.

They are so willing to believe that it is the US that is blatantly biased while Lefty/Socialist/anti-globallization/whatever websites are the only ones who can see through the bias. How does it not smack them in the head to research the info themselves? Once they find that these alternative websites LIE for their cause, how do they continue to believe the other crap?

Friggin lazy ass brains. The Left these days is tired of doing their own thinking. Anything that goes against the US or big corp is good regardless of the truth. They trully make me sick.

And you know why? Because I sway much farther to the Left than the Right on 95% of issues and I hate getting lumped together with this assholes. I&#39;m even toward the Left when it comes to Israel. But these people don&#39;t get it. Unless you say that Israel is apartheid South Africa and Sharon is Hitler, then you&#39;re a right-wing zealot in their view.

I don&#39;t watch/read News Corp. I despise Fox News. They&#39;re tiresome and very biased. But I think it&#39;s time to come clean and admit that the Left is really just as biased and racist. Just diametric opposites.

I doubt we&#39;ll hear from Leftism again in this thread.

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Wow, nicely put. Echoes my frustrations to a tee.

How come everyone else gets all the real news and I am a brainwashed puppet?

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You have not disproved this, as you cannot. It is a matter of public record.

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What you&#39;re referring to is the bill proposal to allow communities in certain locations to decide if they want to be Jewish only. The bill was brought up in response to past decisions that allowed Druse and Bedouin Arabs to restrict their communities to their own kind.

The bill within cabinet passed the first time but was overturned by a new vote with the same cabinet after a furor erupted within Israel. Israel&#39;s own Attorney General refused to go along with it. It was not close to law. If passed by cabinet, it needed to go to Knesset and pass there 3 times to become law. The cabinet changed their vote on July 15 2002. You now have enough facts to do the research on your own and possibly learn something.

Israeli High Court Ruling on the Katzir case (that liars use to associate Israel with apartheid).


http://www.israel-mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0gty0


A. "We hold that the State of Israel was not permitted, by law, to allocate State land to the Jewish Agency for the purpose of establishing the communal settlement of Katzir on the basis of discrimination between Jews and non-Jews.

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On the topic of Jewish control of the media in the US, it is easy to make a case for

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So why can&#39;t you do it?