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If the Soviet Union, U.S.S.R., had not collapsed and the Cold War had continued up to the present, would P2P programs and networks be much different?
Would the government of USSR have helped or hindered development of P2P?
Would they have cared at all? If everything is owned by the state, do artists still copyright their work? Is communism related to sharing?
Anyone care to discuss?
omc
in soviet russia the p2p shares you.
Do you theorize continued Soviet expansion, OMC, or do we continue to help keep them in check?Quote:
Originally posted by oldmancan@14 March 2004 - 23:41
If the Soviet Union, U.S.S.R., had not collapsed and the Cold War had continued up to the present, would P2P programs and networks be much different?
Would the government of USSR have helped or hindered development of P2P?
Would they have cared at all? If everything is owned by the state, do artists still copyright their work? Is communism related to sharing?
Anyone care to discuss?
omc
I suppose the Cold War would have continued, and the Soviets would have done what they could to use the web for their nefarious purposes; I don't know that they would have allowed PCs to proliferate, and such as there were would not have been linked to the 'net.
Thus p2p in the USSR would have been a non-starter, I think. ;)
Truly an interesting question, and one not often entertained, as to do so requires one to re-consider Ronald Reagan, which many are loathe to do, as he played such a large part in the demise of the USSR. ;)
Considering the treatment of art during the "golden" Soviet era, it's highly unlikely that there'd be anything to share. At least, anything that wasn't state-sanctioned.
Any further analysis will require more defined parameters.
:ninja:
disagree, soviet philosophy was much more about sharing (medicine, education, etc.) than our capitalist counterpart (RIAA, MPAA, data mining, etc.). i think they would have been technologically behind (just like they always were), but supported sharing networks.
Somehow I doubt it. Risking western corruption amongst the soviet populace would have precluded any chance of P2P happening.
I'm guessing that if communist Russia had gotten online, it would have been a national intranet version for the general public, and only the KGB would have gotten full access to the rest of the world for the purpose of espionage.
uNz[i]Quote:
[i]Originally posted by uNz@15 March 2004 - 09:47
Somehow I doubt it. Risking western corruption amongst the soviet populace would have precluded any chance of P2P happening.
I'm guessing that if communist Russia had gotten online, it would have been a national intranet version for the general public, and only the KGB would have gotten full access to the rest of the world for the purpose of espionage.
Yes-certainly a "managed" version of the net. ;)
I also agree as to the question of underwear. :lol:
MN-
Yes-parameters, please? :)
Wouldn't that be omc's duty? ;)
:ninja:
Yes-Quote:
Originally posted by MagicNakor@15 March 2004 - 12:11
Wouldn't that be omc's duty? ;)
:ninja:
I was merely joining in your sentiment-should have clarified. :)
I was thinking of "status quo" say just prior to the Berlin wall coming down. I don't know if the were still expansionist dreams at that time. Let's assume a leader such as Gorbachev is in power and his policies of "glasnost" (openness) and "perestroika" (reform) prevail. Futher assume his hopes of shifting resources to the civilian sector of the Soviet economy, and an end to the arms race with the West are being realized.
I wonder how much resources the soviets would have devoted to P2P? Would those efforts be aimed at supporting networks for the populace or attacking the networks of the enemy?
I think that the soviets would have followed the pc craze like the rest of the world. I think the general populace would been slow to be provided hardware. Demand would outstripe supply certainly. I think that "Control" would have been the big state issue.
I suppose the national intranet is a very likely idea. But would the Politiboro, the KGB and the military be the only ones allowed access to the 'net. What about international commerce, or university research?
Just musing.
:beerchug: omc
That certainly makes it more difficult, OMC, as you are (I think) premising this all on the continuation of policies which arose from the Reagan presidency.
I believe it is true that, with the threat of SDA and the defense build-up (which was not much more than a re-fit after Vietnam- and Carter-inspired dry-rot), we spent the Soviets into a hole they couldn't find their way out of, and this led to glasnost and perestroika.
These developments would not have occurred otherwise. ;)
In the scenario you describe, I think things would have happened more-or-less as they have.
I don't know that I've shared any files with anyone in Russia, but who knows?
Do we have any Russians on-board? :huh:
Why would anyone want to share russian music any way. :blink:
Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov does not suit you, Wiz? :DQuote:
Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@15 March 2004 - 15:23
Why would anyone want to share russian music any way. :blink:
Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov does not suit you, Wiz? :D [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by j2k4+15 March 2004 - 18:57--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 15 March 2004 - 18:57)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@15 March 2004 - 15:23
Why would anyone want to share russian music any way. :blink:
Do you have a cold?
Do you have a cold? [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1+15 March 2004 - 16:06--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wizard_Mon1 @ 15 March 2004 - 16:06)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Quote:
Originally posted by j2k4@15 March 2004 - 18:57
<!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1
Quote:
@15 March 2004 - 15:23
Why would anyone want to share russian music any way. :blink:
Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov does not suit you, Wiz? :D
Maybe.
Who wants to know? :huh:
@ Wiz, uh because it's good? Perhaps you should listen to some. Suspecting you don't share j2k4's taste in music, how about the Red Elvises?Quote:
Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@15 March 2004 - 11:23
Why would anyone want to share russian music any way. :blink:
@ j2k4, your going to laugh but this is what I was thinking of, not Reagan's presidency.
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/...n/evilshow.jpg
I don't think the soviets would have supported the P2P for the purpose of enriching the live of the populace. But I really wonder if they would have tried to capitalize on the opportunity to wreak havoc with the pc empowered Western Economy.
I've got a lot of Russian music. Haven't heard of the Red Elvises, although I can imagine.... :huh:
But as glasnost and perestroika were something of the end of the regime, it would be highly unlikely that the Republic would've lasted.
:ninja:
MN-Quote:
Originally posted by MagicNakor@15 March 2004 - 22:57
I've got a lot of Russian music. Haven't heard of the Red Elvises, although I can imagine.... :huh:
But as glasnost and perestroika were something of the end of the regime, it would be highly unlikely that the Republic would've lasted.
:ninja:
I agree completely.
OMC-
That is why, as MN has also stated, it is a difficult speculation; it would almost seem unfair to the old Soviet regime to imagine them at anything but their evil best/worst. ;)
Any other scenario would seem anti-climactic. :P
Do you theorize continued Soviet expansion, OMC, or do we continue to help keep them in check?Quote:
Originally posted by j2k4+15 March 2004 - 07:16--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 15 March 2004 - 07:16)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-oldmancan@14 March 2004 - 23:41
If the Soviet Union, U.S.S.R., had not collapsed and the Cold War had continued up to the present, would P2P programs and networks be much different?
Would the government of USSR have helped or hindered development of P2P?
Would they have cared at all? If everything is owned by the state, do artists still copyright their work? Is communism related to sharing?
Anyone care to discuss?
omc
I suppose the Cold War would have continued, and the Soviets would have done what they could to use the web for their nefarious purposes; I don't know that they would have allowed PCs to proliferate, and such as there were would not have been linked to the 'net.
Thus p2p in the USSR would have been a non-starter, I think. ;)
Truly an interesting question, and one not often entertained, as to do so requires one to re-consider Ronald Reagan, which many are loathe to do, as he played such a large part in the demise of the USSR. ;) [/b][/quote]
Why is it that j2k4 (or whatver) seems to always post in a thread that he/she can seem to exalt "Americas" virtues ??
I'm not against this, I'm a Scottish Nationalist, but I dont throw it down everyone's throat!
The noting of historical fact (Reagan's part in the downfall of the USSR) shouldn't offend you.Quote:
Originally posted by mrcall1969@16 March 2004 - 02:31
Why is it that j2k4 (or whatver) seems to always post in a thread that he/she can seem to exalt "Americas" virtues ??
I'm not against this, I'm a Scottish Nationalist, but I dont throw it down everyone's throat!
How does it follow that I am "exalting America's virtues"?
If you have a different theory as to why the USSR no longer exists, I'd like to hear it.
Why the vitriol?
:smilie4: Screw Russian music. Finland is the cold barren wasteland with the lake of vodka hidden under their crust with good music, not Russia. :music1:Quote:
Originally posted by Wizard_Mon1@15 March 2004 - 13:23
Why would anyone want to share russian music any way. :blink:
:smilie4: Screw Russian music. Finland is the cold barren wasteland with the lake of vodka hidden under their crust with good music, not Russia. :music1: [/b][/quote]Quote:
Originally posted by Arm+16 March 2004 - 04:13--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Arm @ 16 March 2004 - 04:13)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wizard_Mon1@15 March 2004 - 13:23
Why would anyone want to share russian music any way. :blink:
Sibelius, then? :huh:
MagicNakor,Quote:
Originally posted by MagicNakor@15 March 2004 - 18:57
But as glasnost and perestroika were something of the end of the regime, it would be highly unlikely that the Republic would've lasted.
Fair enough. That's probably true. But for the sake of debate I said if the USSR had not collapsed and the Cold War had not ended. Although it was beginning to thaw (glasnost/perestroika).
The Red Elvises, "your favourite Rock and Roll band". Surfer music from Siberia. They were featured in "Samurai Six-String" an indie film, which won some awards at Sundance Film Festival some years back.
Anyways, thanks for posting All. I think this thread is headed to obscurity. Later days.
:beerchug: omc
The USSR was big on implementing things and then controlling them beyond reason. There are countless examples. Therefore, there would be internet, but it would be an internate for the sole use of propaganda. Western connections would be off limits and such connections would be considered sabatoge. Whether this would work or not would be a different question. Considering that being an artist was a job in the soviet union and you were entitled to the same pay as a factory worker, Im sure the Soviet Union would allow file sharing to share this art around the state.
Anyway my worthless 2 cents