Senator Kerry

It seems that the Senator for Mass. is can never seem to make up his mind. Story Here The best part about this whole thing is he's quoted as saying: I threw away my medals and 8 or 9 of them, now he says I never said medals I said ribbons. This guy could be a bigger phony than Clinton.

Here's my favorite part of the whole thing:

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"Back then, you know, ribbons, medals were absolutely interchangeable. ... The U.S. Navy pamphlet calls them medals, we referred to them as the symbols, they were representing medals, ribbons."

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And this is far from the first incident where he done this sort of thing. He did the same thing last week.

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbuti...himanyway.com/

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muchspl2 there are quite a few people who will do just that. Some of which are in my family and we argue about that regally, I just can't understand it.

Kerry has 3 Purple Hearts...


Have they found anyone that met Bush in the National Guard yet?

Its bad enough that he pulled strings to get into a non combat unit to AVOID going to Vietnam, but to not even turn up for that makes him lower than shit in my book...


Thats not counting the actual intense dislike i have for the "man" (used in the broadest possible terms) for his policies....

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@26 April 2004 - 16:34
muchspl2 there are quite a few people who will do just that. Some of which are in my family and we argue about that regally, I just can't understand it.

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I not political, but look at all these bullshit laws we have
FCC crackdown link
patariot act link
among the greatest problems
false info on the wmd, could go on forever but don't want to debate it
neither of us will change anyone minds

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Originally posted by Rat Faced@26 April 2004 - 16:50
Kerry has 3 Purple Hearts...


Have they found anyone that met Bush in the National Guard yet?

Its bad enough that he pulled strings to get into a non combat unit to AVOID going to Vietnam, but to not even turn up for that makes him lower than shit in my book...


Thats not counting the actual intense dislike i have for the "man" (used in the broadest possible terms) for his policies....

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Rat I knew that was coming.

President Bush's military record isn't in question here.

What is in question is that John Kerry was quoted as saying one thing, then he bolded lies to the American public by saying something else. The Kerry campaign cried for the Bush administratration to release his records and they complied, Senator Kerry was also quoted saying that he wasn&#39;t going to do that either <_<

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Rat I knew that was coming

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As well you should...why is this such a big issue with Bush supporters anyway?

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President Bush&#39;s military record isn&#39;t in question here.

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What military record?
Inconsistencies as to their ultimate disbursal aside, Kerry at least HAD some medals.
That is beyond dispute...

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What is in question is that John Kerry was quoted as saying one thing, then he bolded lies to the American public by saying something else. The Kerry campaign cried for the Bush administratration to release his records and they complied, Senator Kerry was also quoted saying that he wasn&#39;t going to do that either

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Hmmm...says he&#39;ll do one thing and then does another....now who does that remind me of?

When i cast my vote it won&#39;t have anything to do with who served where or didn&#39;t as the case may be.
it will be for the person that i think will run the country in the most beneficial manner. It wouldn&#39;t be a surprise if the victor goes back on his word after but i will remember that in the next election.
I want to know what the candidate will do to help with important things such as healthcare, the enviroment, employment and education (the list goes on).....i care not if he called his medals ribbons or if he didn&#39;t turn up to earn any in the first place.
is it any wonder the rest of the world views us as they do when so much importance is placed on publicity for trivial items.
i do enjoy funny stories about both candidates, however i wouldn&#39;t let mudslinging influence my choice....
i would have taken a lighter view of this if it was in the lounge.

Clocker just imagine if Bush was to go out and say what Kerry did today, then imagine the uproar it would have caused in the media.

Why its such a big deal is because he continues to be so inconstant on issues its laughable. Here&#39;s my favorite of all time:

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I voted for the 87 million dollar deal before I voted against it

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And so what Kerry earned some medal in Vietnam. By winning medals does that qualify to be President of the US? Apparently he seems to think so.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@26 April 2004 - 21:40


And so what Kerry earned some medal in Vietnam. By winning medals does that qualify to be President of the US? Apparently he seems to think so.

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Hmmm. does being a drunken, preppy frat boy qualify one to be President?

Oh wait, yes it does.

He may have been a "drunken frat boy" as you say, but that isn&#39;t what his campaign is based on. On the other hand Kerry loves to point out that he served in Vietnam over and over again.

A few things I find relevant here:

John Kerry complains ad nauseum that the Bush campaign has made an issue out of Kerry&#39;s service in Viet Nam.

What&#39;s true is that his military record probably wouldn&#39;t be an issue at all if he himself hadn&#39;t chosen to remind us of it every five minutes; this trait started as soon as he returned from Viet Nam-he made sure every fucking thing he did was in front of a camera or recorded somehow for posterity, because his ego demanded it.

Now it biting him south of his belt-line; today he is getting hammered on the "medal" issue, not by Bushes campaign, but by ABC NEWS, because he lied about the whole thing to Peter Jennings in an interview, and a cardinal rule of the American liberal press is that you don&#39;t screw around with a Big-Three news anchor.

Peter Jennings is treating John "Effing" Kerry to a political horse-fucking of the first order, which could have the effect of clearing the decks for another candidate (see below).

To the extent that Bushes service record is an issue is a result of Kerry&#39;s insistance that his war record trumps Dubya&#39;s, therefore he&#39;s better suited to deal with terrorists, because combat experience is so important for a Commander-in-Chief.

What has been overlooked are Kerry&#39;s statements from 1992 in defense of Bill Clinton&#39;s status as a draft-dodger; he said at that time that the whole issue of military service was overblown, and mattered not in the least.

I will make here a prediction.....nay, make that two predictions:

1. John Kerry is road kill.

Now, not later-NOW.

Stick a fork in him, &#39;cuz he is done.

2. If the Dems decide to throw him over (excellent chance, in light of the above fact), and try to draft Saint Hillary to run instead, she will be the next Democrat casualty; Bush will beat her like a drum.

File this one, guys; DER PROGNOSTICATOR HAS SPOKEN&#33;&#33; :D

I&#39;ll go on record and say that they are both boneheads.

Guess which bonehead I;m voting for though.

Keep in mind Bush is a shit for brains speaker as well.

He also has run the country ass-backwards.
Kerry is an idiot as well but he can&#39;t be as bad as Bush.

Bush supporters crack me up. You will blindly support an idiot and have the nerve to say he&#39;s great when it&#39;s plain as black and white that he&#39;s not.

Again I freely admit that the pool of choices is rather small.

I would like to see who Kerry&#39;s running mate is. (in case he&#39;s incapacitated) :lol: :lol:

hey, just wanted to ask a quick question. I don&#39;t live in America so I don&#39;t know what Bush&#39;s policies/beliefs on certain matters are.

Is he an antiabortionist?? What about capital punishment or what are his governments policies on refugees...

Maybe this is not the place to ask, but I was just interested

thanks

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Originally posted by Busyman@27 April 2004 - 00:37
Keep in mind Bush is a shit for brains speaker as well.


Bush supporters crack me up. You will blindly support an idiot and have the nerve to say he&#39;s great when it&#39;s plain as black and white that he&#39;s not.

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You may say what you like about Bushes abilities as a speaker, B; Eisenhower spoke in a pretty dense and one-note fashion, too.

Nobody could summon the nerve to refer to him as the "epitome of stupidity", however.

I do wish Bush knew the correct pronunciation of the word "nuclear", but as I remember, your Nobel-prize-winner Jimmy Carter had the same difficulty, plus the the ignoble problem of "lusting" in his heart, as well as an inordinate fear of rabbits (Hobbes, are you there? :) ).

BTW-Carter was (and still is) often referred to by a fawning media as one of the most intelligent men to ever hold the office.

Besides which, on a personal level, none of you has heard me say or contend that Bush is infallible; quite the contrary, I have many, many problems with him.

If anyone wants to quibble about my support of Dubya, I can also cynically blame that on Democrats like Bill and Hillary Clinton, Terry McAuliffe, Tom Daschle, and Jamie Gorelick for lowering the bar so far that I&#39;d accept less than stellar personal qualities or job performance in the Oval office. ;)

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Originally posted by MalaDzen@27 April 2004 - 03:35
I don&#39;t live in America so I don&#39;t know what Bush&#39;s policies/beliefs on certain matters are.

Is he an antiabortionist?? What about capital punishment or what are his governments policies on refugees...

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Maladzen-

From what I&#39;ve seen of your posting so far, I think you can safely assume he takes positions opposite your own, at least on your first two questions. ;)

As to immigration, I&#39;m not so sure. :huh:

As soon as Cheney explains to Dubya what immigration is ,Bush wil be against that too.

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Originally posted by clocker@27 April 2004 - 06:30
As soon as Cheney explains to Dubya what immigration is ,Bush wil be against that too.

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Morning, Clocker. :)

Seriously, you may be right. :lol:

In all actuality, Cheney might advise Bush why his doofus "hands-off" policy re: Mexico is, well...stupid.

BTW-I&#39;m sure, at some level, you and I could both be described as "drunken frat boys"; do you feel any less competent for having been?

Come on now, don&#39;t be facetious-I know how accomplished you actually are.

(Please excuse gratuitous use of old-fashioned conservative charm.)

Why was Bush chosen as the candidate for the Republican&#39;s all those years ago? He doesn&#39;t seem an obvious choice to me, i would think he would suffer badly in a debates with any reasonable accomplished politician and his public speeches aren&#39;t particularly impressive imo. I realise that being his father&#39;s son would ensure some votes, but surely not enough?

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Originally posted by ilw@27 April 2004 - 08:58
Why was Bush chosen as the candidate for the Republican&#39;s all those years ago? He doesn&#39;t seem an obvious choice to me, i would think he would suffer badly in a debates with any reasonable accomplished politician and his public speeches aren&#39;t particularly impressive imo. I realise that being his father&#39;s son would ensure some votes, but surely not enough?

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...but that&#39;s a huge start in America.

Then the great American Hype machine begins.

It&#39;s the same with alot management within private industry.

All you have to do is carry yourself well and you are considered intelligent even though you are hiding the fact you are clueless.

Look at Bush and Gore in the debates.

Most said that Bush seemed more of the statesmen. Gore came off as an ass due to his facial expressions. Forget what was actually said in the debate <_< .

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Originally posted by Busyman@27 April 2004 - 13:25

Look at Bush and Gore in the debates.

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Just reminded me about, and now I&#39;m going to download and re-watch that West Wing episode with the debates. :D


http://img57.photobucket.com/albums/...as02debate.jpg


If only you had the real Bartlett over there&#33;

j2k- I was actually interested to getting some FACTUAL information and no i do not know if he is a STRONG antiabortionist or what his immigration policies are.

We&#39;ve had a few debates on the war in Iraq in my philosophy class, and somehow our discussions lead to bitching about his views, so i just wanted to clarify some things.

AND just because I disagree with what he has done in Iraq and Israel doesnt mean i disagree with him on everything...

@MalaDzen - Found this guide. which is a basic summary of Bush policies/stances. No idea about the agenda of the source* though (me not being from the US (it&#39;s a US TV station&#39;s site)).


*edit- just read it -

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Source of information: These issue statements were collected from the candidates Web sites and campaigns, from speeches and public statements, and news articles.

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Thanks Chevy ;) Appreciate it &#33;&#33;

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Originally posted by MalaDzen@27 April 2004 - 14:12
Thanks Chevy ;) Appreciate it &#33;&#33;

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No problem - was interesting to me too to see it laid out like that. Remember though (it being statements from the candidate), that it&#39;s what he SAYS he supports not what he actually does* (would need a better source to sum up that).


*applies to any political organization although I guess on occasions it may tally

thanks for the site again &#33;&#33; it gives me a good summary of their views on issues. I wonder how much of it Kerry would live up to if he became the President :lol:

He sounds like an angel compared to Bush :lol:

From the same site: Compare Candidates On The Issues

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Originally posted by MalaDzen@27 April 2004 - 07:42
j2k- I was actually interested to getting some FACTUAL information and no i do not know if he is a STRONG antiabortionist or what his immigration policies are.

We&#39;ve had a few debates on the war in Iraq in my philosophy class, and somehow our discussions lead to bitching about his views, so i just wanted to clarify some things.

AND just because I disagree with what he has done in Iraq and Israel doesnt mean i disagree with him on everything...

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I apologize for assuming you would be pro-abortion, anti-death-penalty, or pro-immigration, although by your subsequent posting I see that you think of Bush as the proximate opposite of an "angel"; in light of this, I&#39;m not sure what to think.

If you do not agree with his policies as re: these issues, I don&#39;t see how any "factual" presentation of his views might change your mind or be of any benefit to you.

Be aware that I am not choosing you off here, and am not presenting an attitude; I likewise do not wish to be on the receiving end, OK?

Just to be clear: My intent is a civil discourse.

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Originally posted by Busyman@27 April 2004 - 08:25
Most said that Bush seemed more of the statesmen. Gore came off as an ass due to his facial expressions. Forget what was actually said in the debate <_< .

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Everyone forgot what Al Bore said during the debates because we all fell asleep.

@MalaDzen: Kerry&#39;s stance on issues depends on who he is talking to. So today if he talking to Vietnam vets he&#39;s supports the war in Iraq and our troops, then tomorrow he talk to anti war groups and he calls the war a waste. So if he seems like an angel today, tomorrow he just might be the devil if its hot enough.

I find it a bit disconcerting that everyone hates Bush so much that they would, quite literally, rather elect (Kerry aside) absolutely anybody, without the slightest concern for his/her views on any issue whatsoever, just to be rid of Bush.

To vote in a fashion that is totally devoid of reason or rationale, just to be rid of Bush?

Ever heard the phrase, "out of the frying pan and into the fire"?

Just the same-feel free: The election is Bushes to lose.

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Originally posted by muchspl2@26 April 2004 - 16:30
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:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by j2k4@27 April 2004 - 16:25
I find it a bit disconcerting that everyone hates Bush so much that they would, quite literally, rather elect (Kerry aside) absolutely anybody, without the slightest concern for his/her views on any issue whatsoever, just to be rid of Bush.

To vote in a fashion that is totally devoid of reason or rationale, just to be rid of Bush?

Ever heard the phrase, "out of the frying pan and into the fire"?

Just the same-feel free: The election is Bushes to lose.

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I think that.

Ive said before, and a lot of people all over Europe and The World appear to agree with me on this (hell even a lot of Americans)....

In my opinon; Bush is the most dangerous man in the world at this moment, and as long as he is (nominally) in charge, the USA will remain the greatest threat to world peace.

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Originally posted by Rat Faced+27 April 2004 - 11:56--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rat Faced @ 27 April 2004 - 11:56)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-j2k4@27 April 2004 - 16:25
I find it a bit disconcerting that everyone hates Bush so much that they would, quite literally, rather elect (Kerry aside) absolutely anybody, without the slightest concern for his/her views on any issue whatsoever, just to be rid of Bush.

To vote in a fashion that is totally devoid of reason or rationale, just to be rid of Bush?

Ever heard the phrase, "out of the frying pan and into the fire"?

Just the same-feel free: The election is Bushes to lose.

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I think that.

Ive said before, and a lot of people all over Europe and The World appear to agree with me on this (hell even a lot of Americans)....

In my opinon; Bush is the most dangerous man in the world at this moment, and as long as he is (nominally) in charge, the USA will remain the greatest threat to world peace. [/b][/quote]
Then I hope you will allow me to express, with the utmost respect for your opinion, my belief that your view is misplaced, Rat. :huh:

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Originally posted by j2k4@27 April 2004 - 16:25
I find it a bit disconcerting that everyone hates Bush so much that they would, quite literally, rather elect (Kerry aside) absolutely anybody, without the slightest concern for his/her views on any issue whatsoever, just to be rid of Bush.

To vote in a fashion that is totally devoid of reason or rationale, just to be rid of Bush?

Ever heard the phrase, "out of the frying pan and into the fire"?

Just the same-feel free: The election is Bushes to lose.

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This is a common phenomenon. By the mid 90s the UK population would have voted for performing seals in order to get rid of the Conservatives (wait a minute.... :( doh&#33;&#33;)

Even by the second term I frequently heard people say "I don&#39;t like Blair, but at least he isn&#39;t a Conservative". Next year the UK will probably be faced with a choice between Blair or Howard. Howard is, put simply, the ghastlier. The political cartoons have him resplendant with bat wings hanging upside down and his voice echos down through the decades decrying all who disagreed with Thatcher. *shiver* - need some strong apple just thinking about it.

Know very little about Kerry and his medals. I presume he was in Vietnam and did acquit himself reasonably well. As I gather he joined the early 70s protest against the war in that country and was pleased that the US withdrew from same shortly afterwards. Presumably, Bush wholeheartedly supported the war and was desperately disappointed at its end because he was very keen to go over and show those rascals a thing or two.

It springs to mind that perhaps this not an area of debate that Bush&#39;s campaign would have chosen to fight over. I take it this is not his doing, but is actually a bit media help he wished had stayed at home?

A more suspicious mind would suggest that it was in fact a Democrat that kept raising these issues on the pretext that there was a "problem" here - but not me. B)

J2,

I can think of no President in recent history ( recent = my lifetime, I suppose), who has so quickly and drastically reduced America&#39;s status in the world as Bush has.

IMO he is a complete and utter disaster as a player on the world stage as well as the domestic.

Given that I can see not one redeeming feature of his past administration, then yes, I suppose you are correct in your assessment, the fire would be preferable.

Of course your entitled to your opinion j2...

On this one, you are in a minority (in global terms)...although most of the people in that minority are at least in your own country ;)

Even Bush&#39;s tax cut were disasterous too everyone.....but the rich.

He said the cuts were to spur job growth. :lol: :lol:

Everyone knew it wouldn&#39;t work..

Cuts taxes while we are in big deficit
and funding a war...that he played the biggest part in getting us into

The man is ass backwards


The only thing, the onnnnly thing that Bush can credited with...and it would be in hindsight IF it works, would be bringing democracy to the Middle East.

Even if it&#39;s due to force or a bullshit reason, he will credited ....if it works. ;)

(and it may take another 20 years)

Other than that possible "future shock" event, he has no redeeming highlights to his term here.

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Originally posted by clocker@27 April 2004 - 20:01
J2,

I can think of no President in recent history ( recent = my lifetime, I suppose), who has so quickly and drastically reduced America&#39;s status in the world as Bush has.

IMO he is a complete and utter disaster as a player on the world stage as well as the domestic.

Given that I can see not one redeeming feature of his past administration, then yes, I suppose you are correct in your assessment, the fire would be preferable.

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Clocker I think that your wrong on this one. President Bush inherited a big time problem when he took over office from Clinton. Each and every time that Clinton got into some kind of personal scandal he would attempt to divert attention from that by lobbing cruise missiles at a country. Then to make it look good he would give some bullshit speech and talk in circles.


And just so you know in 1998 Senator Kerry hand wrote a note to Clinton stating that Saddam and his regime needed to be overthrown. So its not just this administration that wanted Saddam out, the only difference is this administrating had the balls to do something about it.

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Originally posted by BigBank_Hank+27 April 2004 - 22:15--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BigBank_Hank &#064; 27 April 2004 - 22:15)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-clocker@27 April 2004 - 20:01
J2,

I can think of no President in recent history ( recent = my lifetime, I suppose), who has so quickly and drastically reduced America&#39;s status in the world as Bush has.

IMO he is a complete and utter disaster as a player on the world stage as well as the domestic.

Given that I can see not one redeeming feature of his past administration, then yes, I suppose you are correct in your assessment, the fire would be preferable.

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Clocker I think that your wrong on this one. President Bush inherited a big time problem when he took over office from Clinton. Each and every time that Clinton got into some kind of personal scandal he would attempt to divert attention from that by lobbing cruise missiles at a country. Then to make it look good he would give some bullshit speech and talk in circles.


And just so you know in 1998 Senator Kerry hand wrote a note to Clinton stating that Saddam and his regime needed to be overthrown. So its not just this administration that wanted Saddam out, the only difference is this administrating had the balls to do something about it. [/b][/quote]
...and didn&#39;t have the balls to tell us all the truth about why he was doing it.

That&#39;s called a lie btw.

You have a picture of a fictional soldier as your avatar but there are real soldiers giving their life for a lie.

Nice going. <_<

Busy you still don&#39;t believe that the WMD&#39;s were ever there? What about the terror attacks of recent that were stopped where the terrorist were planning to use chemical weapons? Where do you think they got these weapons?

The character in my avatar is from a my favorite movie of all time and doesn&#39;t have anything to do with the current situation in Iraq.

The brave young men and women in our military know what they are getting into when they sign up. If they didn&#39;t believe in the cause they wouldn&#39;t sign up. No one if forced to go off to war its 100% volunteer.