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I just heard on the news that the forces found a HUGE chemical factory in IraQ. And they captured an Iraqi General in charge of the factory too.
A 100 acre facility with electric fence surrounding it and BOOBY-TRAPPED!
Let's see how this is going to pan out.
Did you expect anything else.... I promisse you they will find weapons of mass destruction 2...
Even the iraqi's don't have them now (otherwise they would have used them)
They find them.....
Propaganda ..... and a to adjust their actions ...!!
jetje, everytime I see your AVATAR, I have to laugh.
:huh: Does he ever post anything? :huh:Quote:
Originally posted by Spindulik@24 March 2003 - 01:28
jetje, everytime I see your AVATAR, I have to laugh.
:D I'm always too busy looking at his avatar, instead of his posts. :P
:blink: *ava..wha?*
oh, then i saw datamores! *ahh* :'(
It's just a matter of time before they find even more chemicals and facilities.
@jetje's avatar http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/cwm/cwm/eek5.gif
Now the news media says that the coalition forces found documents that indicate locations of other chemical facilities. 100 acre factories that the UN couldn't find.
I don't think that a huge chemical factory that is gaurded by Iraq military, run by military, surrounded by high volatge fences and barracks, booby trapped, and camouflaged is just your regular aspirin factory.
Well, there's the proof for all the f****en skeptics out there.
Oh no let's give poor old Saddam the benefit of the doubt!!!
!@@#$#%$%^&*((
:angry:
Many people prefer such news to be verified by independent journalists.
Just like the news about the SCUD missles allegedly launched against Kuwait.
It seems it has turned out that they weren't of that particular type.
This is a propaganda war - it is very difficult to judge what you hear or see. Not even Washington has confirmed that it is indeed a weapons factory.
well then it appears we are just for this war and the sceptics who said ' he may not have them 12 years couldve changed him'
your wrong!¬ :)
I think we have everything to gain by waiting for independent verification as long as procurement of same doesn't involve Hans Blix, the French, Germans, or the Russians.Quote:
Originally posted by ClubDiggler@24 March 2003 - 06:09
Oh no let's give poor old Saddam the benefit of the doubt!!!
!@@#$#%$%^&*((
:angry:
We'll probably find evidence of THEM in the same places.
I was referring to the quality of information launched by both sides, not to the strong possibility that he in fact might possess such weapons.
It is very easy to sway public opinion with wrong or unprecise information, and no-one really is interested in any disclaimers thereafter.
Or do you see any of your TV stations disclaiming the SCUD news with the same vehemence they have backed it before?
It was the same with some of the "evidence" to prove that the Iraq was involved in the attacks of 11/9. There were many disclaimers afterwards, but no-one seems to remember.
I prefer to build my opinion on facts, not facts on my opinions.
UN inspectors have found involvement of companies from those countries before, that wouldn't be news, but those companies don't represent their governments, nor the people of those countries. They rather represent the economical system and philosophy they share with the rest of the so-called "civilized" world, of which we all shouldn't be particularly proud of - there are always people willing to sell their soul to the devil as long as he compensates them handsomely. Some of the early components for biological and chemical weapons were in fact supplied by the US, people tend to forget so easily...
I am an American, but not so easily convinced as you may think; I make the leaps only when entities whom I KNOW are specifically looking for things to turn out otherwise are finally convinced they are wrong; this is necessitated by the "arm-chair quarterback" quality of our debate.Quote:
Originally posted by puremindmatters@24 March 2003 - 14:44
I was referring to the quality of information launched by both sides, not to the strong possibility that he in fact might possess such weapons.
It is very easy to sway public opinion with wrong or unprecise information, and no-one really is interested in any disclaimers thereafter.
Or do you see any of your TV stations disclaiming the SCUD news with the same vehemence they have backed it before?
It was the same with some of the "evidence" to prove that the Iraq was involved in the attacks of 11/9. There were many disclaimers afterwards, but no-one seems to remember.
I prefer to build my opinion on facts, not facts on my opinions.
UN inspectors have found involvement of companies from those countries before, that wouldn't be news, but those companies don't represent their governments, nor the people of those countries. They rather represent the economical system and philosophy they share with the rest of the so-called "civilized" world, of which we all shouldn't be particularly proud of - there are always people willing to sell their soul to the devil as long as he compensates them handsomely. Some of the early components for biological and chemical weapons were in fact supplied by the US, people tend to forget so easily...
You make your point well, though-I salute you. Zardoz could take lessons from you-DON'T take that wrong, either.
I think if you check the news again you will actually find that the "weapons factory" was completely derelict and the coalition have absolutely no proof that it was used for WMD.Quote:
Originally posted by Spindulik@24 March 2003 - 02:00
I just heard on the news that the forces found a HUGE chemical factory in IraQ. And they captured an Iraqi General in charge of the factory too.
A 100 acre facility with electric fence surrounding it and BOOBY-TRAPPED!
Let's see how this is going to pan out.
The story was reported by what the US called "an overly enthusiastic Israeli journalist"
Now how much bad feeling will that stir up in the Arab world? <_<
Please....
we all have TV and radio and suffer mis-information this way (from both side..)
so please don't bring these shitty arguments in here...
May they found a huge factory... may there were chemicals in it but not even coalition government confirmed it were a fully fonctionnal site...
so please don't give false informations there... (no fakes anymore ;) )
see ya
All I said was "I heard on the news..."Quote:
Originally posted by tennine@24 March 2003 - 20:03
Please....
we all have TV and radio and suffer mis-information this way (from both side..)
so please don't bring these shitty arguments in here...
May they found a huge factory... may there were chemicals in it but not even coalition government confirmed it were a fully fonctionnal site...
so please don't give false informations there... (no fakes anymore ;) )
see ya
I said nothing about a "weapons factory", a chemical factory is what I said.
Then I said, "Let's see how this is going to pan out."
So I am not posting any fakes.
-------------------------------
However, it is quite suspicious that a building that is within 100 acres is intentionally hidden (camouflaged), guarded by military, high voltage fencing, surrrouned by barracks and booby-traps. And there is evidence of chemicals in there.
As far as being fully functional. It doesn't matter. There still could be chemicals, regardless.
Like I said, "Let's see how this is going to pan out."
I don't know if they are going to find chemical weapons or not. If they do have them, they wouldn't use them because then the world would know they were lying, everyone would be against them. They would have no chance of winning the war. If they do have them, they probably won't use them until they know they lost the war, just so they can do as much damage as possible before they go.Quote:
Originally posted by jetje@24 March 2003 - 02:07
Did you expect anything else.... I promisse you they will find weapons of mass destruction 2...
Even the iraqi's don't have them now (otherwise they would have used them)
They find them.....
Propaganda ..... and a to adjust their actions ...!!
No matter how much Saddam denied having nuclear and chemical weapons, we said, "You're lying, you have them there". Well, no matter what we say, you are going to say "You're Lying, you put them there." You're views are just as bad as my Governments views. You don't know anything for sure, and We don't know anything for sure, NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING FOR SURE!!!!
That is why this war is wrong.
I normally don't like hackers! But in this case I have to love them. I heard that some hackers disabled the Iraq website (or one of those websites), now everyone can't access the photos of the dead soldiers, that they proudly displayed, those sickos!
Again Spindulik i'm sorry, but have to disagree,
the war is brought home to you by so many tv stations, the tv journalists go with the boys for "a walk" into the dessert. They show you soldiers firing guns, take Iraqis prisson, you see the explosions. Imo it is good reporting when they show the bad evil of war... If these pictures and tv interviews are not showen (how awfull and shocking they even are) people might never understand that these ain't computergames. These things happen in War, how much you dislike it it happens in real life. Real people die and suffer in these wars. The US called it shock and awe.... Well you have to expect these kinda actions by the opponent then.
Never the less i pray for those souls, dead, wounded or captured, but i hope you forgive me i do that for both sides. :(
I really hope you don't see this post as disrespect for the dead, it is not. They died for doing their jobs and duty.... :unsure:
I agree, it was sick to show these Photo's..and against the Geneva Convention to display POWs.Quote:
Originally posted by Spindulik@24 March 2003 - 19:33
I normally don't like hackers! But in this case I have to love them. I heard that some hackers disabled the Iraq website (or one of those websites), now everyone can't access the photos of the dead soldiers, that they proudly displayed, those sickos!
However i cant help thinking of a certain camp in Afganistan and another in Cuba, when the US and UK Governments were doing EXACTLY the same thing. What short memories we have.
Geneva classified BOTH as being against the Geneva Convention.
I agree with Geneva in this respect.
Much as i deplore what the Iraqi's are doing here, it was Bush that started this particular nasty type of Propaganda.
Sorry Jetje, I'm not trying to pick on you ;)Quote:
Originally posted by jetje@24 March 2003 - 21:38
Again Spindulik i'm sorry, but have to disagree,
the war is brought home to you by so many tv stations, the tv journalists go with the boys for "a walk" into the dessert. They show you soldiers firing guns, take Iraqis prisson, you see the explosions. Imo it is good reporting when they show the bad evil of war... If these pictures and tv interviews are not showen (how awfull and shocking they even are) people might never understand that these ain't computergames. These things happen in War, how much you dislike it it happens in real life. Real people die and suffer in these wars. The US called it shock and awe.... Well you have to expect these kinda actions by the opponent then.
Never the less i pray for those souls, dead, wounded or captured, but i hope you forgive me i do that for both sides. :(
I really hope you don't see this post as disrespect for the dead, it is not. They died for doing their jobs and duty.... :unsure:
I agree, we usually don't get to see what war is truly like, but in this case, it was wrong. This website wasn't put up to show how horrible war is, it was put up because they were proud that they killed that soldier. It was to make Iraqis proud and americans angry. It was put up to show off.
Again? :blink:Quote:
Originally posted by jetje@24 March 2003 - 21:38
Again Spindulik i'm sorry, but have to disagree...
I think you mis-understood. Or maybe I didn't make my statement correct.
What I was saying is, hackers went to IRAQ's ludicrous website of misleading bullcrap, that tastelessly displays the images of POWs. They also hampered Iraq's internet communications.
The hackers did not hack into the world news media.
I don't know why everyone who opposes this war, suddenly is defending Saddam here?
Here is a list of suspicious or deplorable things so far:
[*]Chemical factory found.[*]Missles that were banned by the UN, were launched.[*]Using human shields to hide behind.[*]Iraqis don themselves with USA uniforms, gather up a few Iraq solders as POWS and execute them.[*]POWs at the American side show Americans gas masks with 2002 embossed on them.[*]A fake (possibly real) hospital filled with Iraqi soldiers, weapons, antidote for chemicals weapons, and 3000 chemicals suites with gas masks. And a TANK![*]American protestors who entered Iraq (last week) as human shields change their minds now, when Iraqi civilians tell them of the Saddam regime horrors.[*]Land mines.[*]Iraq soldiers spraying bullets and grenades into the civilian crowd who is protesting Saddam.[*]Violate Geneva Convention with the photos and mistreatment of soldiers.[*]And Saddam's televised speech. He is commending a specific batallion for doing a great job. Helllooo. That group of bozos surrendered a few days prior to that.
Need more? Give me a few hours as more stuff is discovered.
I think we have everything to gain by waiting for independent verification as long as procurement of same doesn't involve Hans Blix, the French, Germans, or the Russians.Quote:
Originally posted by j2k4+24 March 2003 - 13:30--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4 @ 24 March 2003 - 13:30)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ClubDiggler@24 March 2003 - 06:09
Oh no let's give poor old Saddam the benefit of the doubt!!!
!@@#$#%$%^&*((
:angry:
We'll probably find evidence of THEM in the same places. [/b][/quote]
I wouldn't be surprised!!!
Back later from my last post..
Sorry if I was misunderstood spindulik, I wasn't accusing you of propaganda.. :D
And to give you reason again ;) wether I'm totally opposed to this stupid war, I don't support Sadam and really agre it's time for him to get out of there....
I simply understand some ppl in Irak should not accept an "un-elected" president telling them from the other side of earth: "your government is bad, I'm coming with the strongest army ever made to bring war and destruction and wether you like it or not you won't be savages anymore..."
The last time they seen US soldiers they were promised peace and democracy.... but abandonned to resist Sadam alone.... think with great contracts to rebuild Irak with US firms this won't happen this time.... :(
see ya
Great respect to any fighter in this stupid war and feelings to the families from both sides obviously
All protestors are being shot over there and/or mamed. What do we do with ours,we let them disrupt our everday life, and just to what, Voice there opinion!!. In my local Town where I live it's mayhem, with what the protestors have caused.Quote:
Originally posted by Spindulik@26 March 2003 - 04:54
[*]American protestors who entered Iraq (last week) as human shields change their minds now, when Iraqi civilians tell them of the Saddam regime horrors.
1) Completly brought road public services to a standstill for hours causing serious risks to any emergency services.No consideration for others
2) Breaking and entering the town hall whereby smashing up equipment and furniture,even though the town hall has some sort of anti-war policy ongoing.Vandalism
3) Just recently broadcasting a pirate radio station overlapping a local radio station just to dribblle on and have a moan about protesting this war.No respect for any Law
These are CRIMES!!.not innocent protests.These protestors are entering the same catagory as those we are trying to fight. :(
All protestors are being shot over there and/or mamed. What do we do with ours,we let them disrupt our everday life, and just to what, Voice there opinion!!. In my local Town where I live it's mayhem, with what the protestors have caused.Quote:
Originally posted by POWER_USER+26 March 2003 - 14:31--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (POWER_USER @ 26 March 2003 - 14:31)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Spindulik@26 March 2003 - 04:54
[*]American protestors who entered Iraq (last week) as human shields change their minds now, when Iraqi civilians tell them of the Saddam regime horrors.
1) Completly brought road public services to a standstill for hours causing serious risks to any emergency services.No consideration for others
2) Breaking and entering the town hall whereby smashing up equipment and furniture,even though the town hall has some sort of anti-war policy ongoing.Vandalism
3) Just recently broadcasting a pirate radio station overlapping a local radio station just to dribblle on and have a moan about protesting this war.No respect for any Law
These are CRIMES!!.not innocent protests.These protestors are entering the same catagory as those we are trying to fight. :( [/b][/quote]
"Protests" of that type have long been an activity enjoyed by those suffering a violent streak who wish to exercise it with relative immunity. These are also the people who are likely to be found leading strikes involving violence.
In America, you can still kill someone in the name of a "strike" and have little worry about prosecution.
Another legal nod to minority opinion. In the U.S., the smaller and goofier the minority, the better chance of legal protection, all in the name of equality.