One Person's Opinion

This is by a person of the democratic persuasion.
Seems she's now rethinking her position on the election! Worth
the read.


I'm trying to get all this political stuff straightened out in
my head
so I'll know how to vote come November. Right now, we have one
guy saying one thing. Then the other guy says something else.
Who to believe. Lemme see; have I got this straight?

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia -
good...
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...

Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian
terrorists-
good...
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...

Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good...
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad...

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good...
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...

No mass graves found in Serbia - good...
No WMD found Iraq - bad...

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good...
Economy on upswing under Bush - bad...

Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...
World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good...
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad...

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good...
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...

Milosevic not yet convicted - good...
Saddam turned over for trial - bad...

Ahh, it's so confusing!

Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the
average tax burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax
Freedom Day". This is the day after which the money you earn
goes to you, not the government.



This year, tax freedom day was April 11th. That's the earliest
it has been since 1991. It's latest day ever was May 2nd,
which occurred in 2000. Notice anything special about those
dates?

Recently, John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed
Americans are actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite
the tax cuts. He gave no explanation and provided no data for
this claim.

Another interesting fact: Both George Bush and John Kerry are
wealthy men. Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas.
Kerry owns 4 mansions, all worth several million dollars. (His
ski resort home in Idaho is an old barn brought over from
Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame).

Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000.
Does that sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes
obviously has figured out a way to avoid paying his own.

Quote:

---

This is by a person of the democratic persuasion.
Seems she's now rethinking her position on the election! Worth
the read.

---

who's the person?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vidcc

who's the person?

---

Just a friend that sent me this e-mail today, I doubt you know her.

Eloquent :)

How long were we in Serbia?

How long will we be in Iraq?

No bid contracts are not uncommon however now there is a conflict of interest Mr. Cheney.

Bush spent 87 billion in Iraq...and counting.

Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator..and now more die now and have less freedom than before. The liberated are no longer cheering.

Economy on upswing under Bush...for the rich.

Bush imposes regime change in Iraq...with no plan. Let's make it up as we go shall we?

Nice going.

If my memory Serves correctly..

Haliburton was given a deal with the US Government under Bush Snr, and both Clinton and Bush Jr have been using their services since that contract was signed.

Now go and research how much, in total, each administration has paid Haliburton.

Please note... their contract is to be paid a % above cost, not a fixed fee... so, its in their interest to make their costs as high as possible. Like making a lot more meals than are actually eaten, the gas scandal, wages etc etc etc...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman

How long were we in Serbia?

How long will we be in Iraq?

No bid contracts are not uncommon however now there is a conflict of interest Mr. Cheney.

Bush spent 87 billion in Iraq...and counting.

Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator..and now more die now and have less freedom than before. The liberated are no longer cheering.

Economy on upswing under Bush...for the rich.

Bush imposes regime change in Iraq...with no plan. Let's make it up as we go shall we?

Nice going.

---

stole the words out of my mouth.

i hate kerry and i hate bush. period. but to see bush leave and never harm, that's right, harm the world again (liberating 25 million, congrats u guys are heroes, now don't just sit there with a half assed job. fix their economy like you promised, it'll take a long time you say? pretty predictable answer, maybe you shoulda thought more, more and more iraqi's are joining resistance groups everyday). but if bush wins, only 4 more years, i can honestly say, republicans are okay, BUT, bush is the worst of em all. thank god i don't have to vote.

First, Clinton isn't running. Second, I'm always sceptical of any email that doesn't provide links or citations for sources of the stated "facts". Third, with Bush in office you'll still have Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Powell and all the other dark underlings I can't recall right at this moments. Fourth, I've seen this before.

If you want to know how to vote spend some time, alot of time, reading as many original sources of information about each candidte as you can, then make your decision, on your own. Don't rely on the information from the DNC or the RNC or from the pundits. Find it for yourself.

btw, the $87,000,000,000 was supplemental, on top of $79,000,000,000, but your email doesn't say that. See what I mean?

btw btw This is a right wing piece that has been floating around for awhile, not an original email from your friend. 'She' may have forwarded it to you, but 'she' didn't write it.

btw btw btw, The report states that the April 11 Tax Freedom day is the lowest in 37 years, but that false 1991 year makes it look worse for the democrats. Also, while the Tax Foundation claims to be nonpartisan, their funding comes from the Sarah Scaife Foundation, considered one of the top four conservtive foundations and the Earhart Foundation, also considered a conservative biggie, and their executive director, Scott Hodge, is a former research analyst for the Heritage Foundation, a neo-conservative public policy research institute whose stated mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies.

So, take it from the source. This doesn't mean it's wrong, just worth further examination.

Oh, btw again.... Mr. Bush reported $822,126 in adjusted gross income for last year, on which he paid $227,490 in federal income taxes, Sen. Kerry reported $395,000 in taxable income and paid $90,575 in federal income taxes.

Well, Clinton bombed the Chinese embassy if my memeory serves me rightly because the french gave out of date maps and information. I am pretty sure they found mass graves in Serbia.

ooh did I mention that the stuff in Serbia had full UN backing? Rather than a 2 man crusade :unsure:

There were mass graves in the Balkans, or my eyesight, emotions and sense of smell really let me down there :dry:

Milosevic getting convicted has nothing to do with Clinton, thats down to The Hague and the long drawn out trial - no one can tell them to hurry it up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spinningfreemanny

Eloquent :)

---

:) If inaccurate.

A small example would be that no troops entered Serbia and the first "Coalition Troops" to enter the disputed province of Kosova were Russian (at Serbian invitation).

Also, Milosovic was not a military dictator. He tended to win elections by playing on Serb fears rather than by fear (as was the case of Saddam). His party lost the elections after the war and they abided by that decision. It required no outside troops to conduct it. The ultra nationalists are still in Serbian politics and could return if the Serbian people wanted them.

Another would be the relative costs of the wars - I think "utter mince" would be the best way to describe those two sets of figures.

However, it would be fair to say that Bill was no saint - it was just that he was a lot more loveable than Smirky the Monkey and all his little devils.

[QUOTE=scroff]First, Clinton isn't running. Second, I'm always sceptical of any email that doesn't provide links or citations for sources of the stated "facts". Third, with Bush in office you'll still have Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Powell and all the other dark underlings I can't recall right at this moments. Fourth, I've seen this before.

If you want to know how to vote spend some time, alot of time, reading as many original sources of information about each candidte as you can, then make your decision, on your own. Don't rely on the information from the DNC or the RNC or from the pundits. Find it for yourself.

btw, the $87,000,000,000 was supplemental, on top of $79,000,000,000, but your email doesn't say that. See what I mean?

btw btw This is a right wing piece that has been floating around for awhile, not an original email from your friend. 'She' may have forwarded it to you, but 'she' didn't write it.

btw btw btw, The report states that the April 11 Tax Freedom day is the lowest in 37 years, but that false 1991 year makes it look worse for the democrats. Also, while the Tax Foundation claims to be nonpartisan, their funding comes from the Sarah Scaife Foundation, considered one of the top four conservtive foundations and the Earhart Foundation, also considered a conservative biggie, and their executive director, Scott Hodge, is a former research analyst for the Heritage Foundation, a neo-conservative public policy research institute whose stated mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies.

So, take it from the source. This doesn't mean it's wrong, just worth further examination.

Oh, btw again.... Mr. Bush reported $822,126 in adjusted gross income for last year, on which he paid $227,490 in federal income taxes, Sen. Kerry reported $395,000 in taxable income and paid $90,575 in federal income taxes.[/QUOTE]

Links, since you were the one that brought the subject up:)

BTW I didn't say who wrote it, I said I received this from a friend. I know for a fact she hasn't decided who to vote for. She came across this while doing her research as you suggested.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CloudSeeder

Links, since you were the one that brought the subject up:)

BTW I didn't say who wrote it, I said I received this from a friend. I know for a fact she hasn't decided who to vote for. She came across this while doing her research as you suggested.

---

C'mon Manny. I know you are able to do some research/searches yourself. If you really want to educate yourself/be educated, you would search out information.
However, we tend to be pretty good about links.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruthie

C'mon Manny. I know you are able to do some research/searches yourself. If you really want to educate yourself/be educated, you would search out information.
However, we tend to be pretty good about links.

---

Its not manny ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Its not manny ;)

---

Cloudseeder aka TROUBLE MAKER bka SHELL SHOCKED aka......

There aren't many conservatives on the board (and for good reason).
I probably can count the number on my hands.

voetsek
Cloudseeder
j2k4
spinningfreemanny
BigBank Hank
B.Helto

Some of them have alter egos and some for that matter may be the same on that list. :o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruthie

C'mon Manny. I know you are able to do some research/searches yourself. If you really want to educate yourself/be educated, you would search out information.
However, we tend to be pretty good about links.

---

Scroff is the one that was complaining about there being no links;)
According to the way I read Scroffs post one shouldn't have to do the research, the one doing the posting should provide them;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman

Cloudseeder aka TROUBLE MAKER bka SHELL SHOCKED aka......

There aren't many conservatives on the board (and for good reason).
I probably can count the number on my hands.

voetsek
Cloudseeder
j2k4
spinningfreemanny
BigBank Hank
B.Helto

Some of them have alter egos and some for that matter may be the same on that list. :o

---

So what is this good reason you are talking about?:o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CloudSeeder

So what is this good reason you are talking about?:o

---

In a global sense your views are in the minority and this is an international board.

http://img87.exs.cx/img87/7633/Picture605.jpg

http://img87.exs.cx/img87/5593/Picture606.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman

In a global sense your views are in the minority and this is an international board.

---

Because coincidentally, are views are pro-american....well others are pro-respective countries...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spinningfreemanny

Because coincidentally, are views are pro-american....well others are pro-respective countries...

---

It is subjective as to whether they are Pro-American in result though.

No one doubts the Patriotism of yourself or any other American.

Im Patriotic to my country... this does not mean i agree with everything my Government does, and the Iraqi invasion certainly was not in my name, to name but one item.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rat Faced

Its not manny ;)

---

lol, come on, I have to be somebody else....conservatives in college are sparingly a minority....

numbers of registered names are no bother to me or I'm sure any other conservative on this board.

We're a small but very powerful group that keeps the 100+ libs very busy. :01:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rat Faced

It is subjective as to whether they are Pro-American in result though.

No one doubts the Patriotism of yourself or any other American.

Im Patriotic to my country... this does not mean i agree with everything my Government does, and the Iraqi invasion certainly was not in my name, to name but one item.

---

all about interests. People who don't live here do not have the same interests that we do.

France wants oil instead of Hussein in jail. see?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spinningfreemanny

lol, come on, I have to be somebody else....conservatives in college are sparingly a minority....

numbers of registered names are no bother to me or I'm sure any other conservative on this board.

We're a small but very powerful group that keeps the 100+ libs very busy. :01:

---

....laughing. :lol: :lol:

It's good that you think highly of yourself on this board but you are not powerful.

You do however add to thread value with other viewpoints however biased they may be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spinningfreemanny

Because coincidentally, are views are pro-american....well others are pro-respective countries...

---

What a stilted view.

If what you say is true then we should close our borders and have a more hands off approach to the world.

....something I actually favor. :shifty:

I believe that if the world thinks us so bad then when some country rises up and starts bothering them, we should sit on the sidelines until it comes to our doorstep...you know...like WWII. :dry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spinningfreemanny

all about interests. People who don't live here do not have the same interests that we do.

France wants oil instead of Hussein in jail. see?

---

Manny,

Most people around the world have the same interests. We all want to be able to put food on the table, keep warm on cold nights and feel secure in our beds.

Political goals of individual countries may vary slightly on how to achieve these ends, but as a rule these simple things drive most of it.

The French are no different (although the food they put on the table is rather more appetising than most).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spinningfreemanny

all about interests. People who don't live here do not have the same interests that we do.

France wants oil instead of Hussein in jail. see?

---

So, your saying that all the Americans that were against the war are unpatriotic.

As i've said before.. I believe, and im sure they do, that US interests have been damaged, not helped in this endeavour.

This means that in their eyes, you must be the unpatriotic one, surely?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman

In a global sense your views are in the minority and this is an international board.

---

There aren't very many American conservatives that let themselves be known on this board, Busyman, you are right. But there are very many in America. So any board that is global should welcome their viewpoint.

And this opinion was not presented as fact, was it? It doesn't hurt for us all to see all opinions instead of just a few.

All opinions should be heard.

With so many Europeans on the board it is perhaps not surprising that there is a Liberal/Left lean to the board. It is however, enlightening to hear J2's views - and educational to hear Manny's and Hank's. :lol:



:nono: Bad Biggles

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Biggles

All opinions should be heard.

With so many Europeans on the board it is perhaps not surprising that there is a Liberal/Left lean to the board. It is however, enlightening to hear J2's views - and educational to hear Manny's and Hank's. :lol:



:nono: Bad Biggles

---

Enlightening and entertaining.

Some of the views I've heard make go :o

for lack of simple logic.

Quote:

---

Links, since you were the one that brought the subject up

---

Yes I did. And I'm glad you asked, kind of demonstrates my overall belief that too many people are too lazy or too busy to check things out for themselves....

On the letter itself... Simple google search


According to Tax Foundation calculations using the latest government data on income and taxes, Tax Freedom Day® in 2004 will be celebrated on April 11th, the earliest Tax Freedom Day for 37 years
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Bush reported $822,126 in adjusted gross income for last year, on which he paid $227,490 in federal income taxes — or about 28 percent, according to the president's federal returns released Tuesday by the White House.

The president and his wife, Laura, listed as income his presidential salary, interest and the investment income from trusts that hold their assets.

Sen. Kerry reported $395,000 in taxable income and paid $90,575 in federal income taxes, according to a campaign press release. Kerry's income included his senatorial salary and $89,000 in proceeds from his book, "A Call to Service."
Well, I just lost my internet connection while finding the links... they're out there, I'm not going to do it again right now... I'm too lazy :cool:

Oh, ok, one more... the original email your "person of the democratic persuasion" wrote you... from the G. Gorden Libby site:lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scroff

Yes I did. And I'm glad you asked, kind of demonstrates my overall belief that too many people are too lazy or too busy to check things out for themselves....

On the letter itself... Simple google search


According to Tax Foundation calculations using the latest government data on income and taxes, Tax Freedom Day® in 2004 will be celebrated on April 11th, the earliest Tax Freedom Day for 37 years
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Bush reported $822,126 in adjusted gross income for last year, on which he paid $227,490 in federal income taxes — or about 28 percent, according to the president's federal returns released Tuesday by the White House.

The president and his wife, Laura, listed as income his presidential salary, interest and the investment income from trusts that hold their assets.

Sen. Kerry reported $395,000 in taxable income and paid $90,575 in federal income taxes, according to a campaign press release. Kerry's income included his senatorial salary and $89,000 in proceeds from his book, "A Call to Service."
Well, I just lost my internet connection while finding the links... they're out there, I'm not going to do it again right now... I'm too lazy :cool:

Oh, ok, one more... the original email your "person of the democratic persuasion" wrote you... from the G. Gorden Libby site:lol:

---

Thanks Scroff I've been both lately (lazy and busy);)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CloudSeeder

Thanks Scroff I've been both lately (lazy and busy);)

---

You could never be me. :dry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman

You could never be me. :dry:

---

lets end this now, as I am the laziest person on the board by far (yes i know off topic... old habits die hard:P)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mathea

lets end this now, as I am the laziest person on the board by far (yes i know off topic... old habits die hard:P)

---

...then we are polar opposites...

Lazea? :huh:

Matheazy? :huh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Busyman

...then we are polar opposites...

Lazea? :huh:

Matheazy? :huh:

---

Mathea's easy? Not according to the other thread..she hasn't been sweet-talked yet. LOL

@busyman: I would be offended by that...... but that takes too much effort :lol:
@ruthie: that takes too much effort too


/me is so glad that her smokes r right in front of here w/lighter... the ashtray is beside her, the remote n both fones are on the desk as well, and she can reach her snapple with only the slightest of movements


beat that :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruthie

Mathea's easy? Not according to the other thread..she hasn't been sweet-talked yet. LOL

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lazea or Matheazy

@busyman: I would be offended by that...... but that takes too much effort
@ruthie: that takes too much effort too

---

Hey uh...baby...howz about me and you....trickle down..to uh..my...aww fuck it!!! :(

damn, you had me goin for a second....