Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Interesting; I wonder if the weapons moved are considered WMD's...
Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.
John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.
"The Russians brought in, just before the war got started, a whole series of military units," Mr. Shaw said. "Their main job was to shred all evidence of any of the contractual arrangements they had with the Iraqis. The others were transportation units."
Mr. Shaw, who was in charge of cataloging the tons of conventional arms provided to Iraq by foreign suppliers, said he recently obtained reliable information on the arms-dispersal program from two European intelligence services that have detailed knowledge of the Russian-Iraqi weapons collaboration.
Most of Saddam's most powerful arms were systematically separated from other arms like mortars, bombs and rockets, and sent to Syria and Lebanon, and possibly to Iran, he said.
The Russian involvement in helping disperse Saddam's weapons, including some 380 tons of RDX and HMX, is still being investigated, Mr. Shaw said.
The RDX and HMX, which are used to manufacture high-explosive and nuclear weapons, are probably of Russian origin, he said.
Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita could not be reached for comment.
The disappearance of the material was reported in a letter Oct. 10 from the Iraqi government to the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Disclosure of the missing explosives Monday in a New York Times story was used by the Democratic presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry, who accused the Bush administration of failing to secure the material.
Al-Qaqaa, a known Iraqi weapons site, was monitored closely, Mr. Shaw said.
"That was such a pivotal location, Number 1, that the mere fact of [special explosives] disappearing was impossible," Mr. Shaw said. "And Number 2, if the stuff disappeared, it had to have gone before we got there."
The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that the Al-Qaqaa facility was defended by Fedayeen Saddam, Special Republican Guard and other Iraqi military units during the conflict. U.S. forces defeated the defenders around April 3 and found the gates to the facility open, the Pentagon said in a statement yesterday.
A military unit in charge of searching for weapons, the Army's 75th Exploitation Task Force, then inspected Al-Qaqaa on May 8, May 11 and May 27, 2003, and found no high explosives that had been monitored in the past by the IAEA.
The Pentagon said there was no evidence of large-scale movement of explosives from the facility after April 6.
"The movement of 377 tons of heavy ordnance would have required dozens of heavy trucks and equipment moving along the same roadways as U.S. combat divisions occupied continually for weeks prior to and subsequent to the 3rd Infantry Division's arrival at the facility," the statement said.
The statement also said that the material may have been removed from the site by Saddam's regime.
According to the Pentagon, U.N. arms inspectors sealed the explosives at Al-Qaqaa in January 2003 and revisited the site in March and noted that the seals were not broken.
It is not known whether the inspectors saw the explosives in March. The U.N. team left the country before the U.S.-led invasion began March 20, 2003.
A second defense official said documents on the Russian support to Iraq reveal that Saddam's government paid the Kremlin for the special forces to provide security for Iraq's Russian arms and to conduct counterintelligence activities designed to prevent U.S. and Western intelligence services from learning about the arms pipeline through Syria.
The Russian arms-removal program was initiated after Yevgeny Primakov, the former Russian intelligence chief, could not persuade Saddam to give in to U.S. and Western demands, this official said.
A small portion of Iraq's 650,000 tons to 1 million tons of conventional arms that were found after the war were looted after the U.S.-led invasion, Mr. Shaw said. Russia was Iraq's largest foreign supplier of weaponry, he said.
However, the most important and useful arms and explosives appear to have been separated and moved out as part of carefully designed program. "The organized effort was done in advance of the conflict," Mr. Shaw said.
The Russian forces were tasked with moving special arms out of the country.
Mr. Shaw said foreign intelligence officials believe the Russians worked with Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence service to separate out special weapons, including high explosives and other arms and related technology, from standard conventional arms spread out in some 200 arms depots.
The Russian weapons were then sent out of the country to Syria, and possibly Lebanon in Russian trucks, Mr. Shaw said.
Mr. Shaw said he believes that the withdrawal of Russian-made weapons and explosives from Iraq was part of plan by Saddam to set up a "redoubt" in Syria that could be used as a base for launching pro-Saddam insurgency operations in Iraq.
The Russian units were dispatched beginning in January 2003 and by March had destroyed hundreds of pages of documents on Russian arms supplies to Iraq while dispersing arms to Syria, the second official said.
Besides their own weapons, the Russians were supplying Saddam with arms made in Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria and other Eastern European nations, he said.
"Whatever was not buried was put on lorries and sent to the Syrian border," the defense official said.
Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said.
The director of the Iraqi government front company known as the Al Bashair Trading Co. fled to Syria, where he is in charge of monitoring arms holdings and funding Iraqi insurgent activities, the official said.
Also, an Arabic-language report obtained by U.S. intelligence disclosed the extent of Russian armaments. The 26-page report was written by Abdul Tawab Mullah al Huwaysh, Saddam's minister of military industrialization, who was captured by U.S. forces May 2, 2003.
The Russian "spetsnaz" or special-operations forces were under the GRU military intelligence service and organized large commercial truck convoys for the weapons removal, the official said.
Regarding the explosives, the new Iraqi government reported that 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or high-melting-point explosive, and 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or rapid-detonation explosive, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or pentaerythritol tetranitrate, were missing.
The material is used in nuclear weapons and also in making military "plastic" high explosive.
Defense officials said the Russians can provide information on what happened to the Iraqi weapons and explosives that were transported out of the country. Officials believe the Russians also can explain what happened to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
and why would Russia help Iraq? Because Russia opposed the war? Or because Russia supplied Iraq with weapons (not WMD's, any intelligent person would have give up on the idea of WMD's in Iraq by now, I just love how the republicans keep insisting Iraq had WMD's or has WMD's, hilarious)?
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Quote:
Originally Posted by spinningfreemanny
Interesting; I wonder if the weapons moved are considered WMD's...
Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.
John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.
Quote:
U.S. defense officials said Tuesday that the materials could have vanished during a period of about three weeks, between March 15, 2003, when inspectors for the IAEA confirmed that at least some of the materials were still stored under IAEA seal at Al-Qaqaa, and April 4, when U.S. troops arrived.
On March 15, said Melissa Fleming, a spokeswoman for the IAEA, “the seals on the doors on the bunkers were checked at many of the bunkers to see if they were still there and hadn’t been tampered with, and that was the case.”
The war in Iraq began March 20. Army officials told NBC News on condition of anonymity that troops from the Army’s 3rd Infantry did not arrive at Al-Qaqaa until April 4, finding “looters everywhere” carrying what they could out on their backs..
Anyone see a possible timing problem here?
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Its nothing new knowing that weapons were moved to Syria, ffs we have photos of the convoys :rolleyes:
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
The administration is scrambling now. One spin they turn this into is that John Kerry "denegrates" the troops by saying they didn't do their job. He didn't put the accountability for a total failure in this entire escapade on the troops at all..he put it where it belongs..Dubya
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Ahh those dastardly Russians!
Is this the preparation and pretext to invade Syria too?
Surely not :)
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggles
Ahh those dastardly Russians!
Is this the preparation and pretext to invade Syria too?
Surely not :)
well if that is the case then Bush clearly has some work to do before the election.:)
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo 721
well if that is the case then Bush clearly has some work to do before the election.:)
Bush: "My fellow citizens, the time has come to disarm Syria, to free it's people, and to save the world from grave danger. On my orders, American and Coalition forces have begun striking selected targets of "military" importance to undermine Saddam Hussein's ability to wage war. Did I say Saddam Hussein cuz I meant
Basar Al-ASAD ;) ."
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo 721
well if that is the case then Bush clearly has some work to do before the election.:)
Why?
If he gets in, he has four years to convince the Americans that it was in the Syrian peoples best interest to die in the name of Democracy...
oops... little bit of politics... my bad :rolleyes:
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rat Faced
Why?
If he gets in, he has four years to convince the Americans that it was in the Syrian peoples best interest to die in the name of Democracy...
oops... little bit of politics... my bad :rolleyes:
Well if its democracy that the 100,000's of people have died for thats ok then, mention "democracy" to an Iraqi who's family has just been decimated and iam sure he will salute you and give you a medal.
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo 721
Well if its democracy that the 100,000's of people have died for thats ok then, mention "democracy" to an Iraqi who's family has just been decimated and iam sure he will salute you and give you a medal.
I THINK we're on the same side in this argument Neo...
You may want to look at some of my posts before assuming we arent? ;)
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Well, we all know here in the states that the WMD were either buried in the sand or shipped out to Syria :dry:
Sooo, with four more years you can be sure we'll be welcoming democracy all over the place...
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Quote:
Originally Posted by scroff
Well, we all know here in the states that the WMD were either buried in the sand or shipped out to Syria :dry:
Sooo, with four more years you can be sure we'll be welcoming democracy all over the place...
ha, i hope thats sarcasm, cuz we ALL (the world, not the self centered american) know that there were never any WMD's. move on, jesus christ. 100,000 murders, that's right murders, for so called freedom and WMD's? It was better when Saddam was in power, his people were more "free". it's actually more like 600,000+ murders considering all the sanctions from 1992. If someone killed 100,000 americans and said it was for democracy, what would you, the american (not u scroff, the typical american, liberal or conserv.) do??? :dry: :dry: freedom my ass.
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
lol..no worries, cpt..that was sarcasm extrodinaire
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthie
lol..no worries, cpt..that was sarcasm extrodinaire
lol, sarcarsm extrodinaire :lol: , but about the american occupation in Iraq, it truly is the darkest chapter in American History.
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
I absolutely agree. i think this is the most corrupt, horrific time in our history, and Bush will go down as the most dangerous president in our country.
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
it sure is a dark time. and 4 more years of bush will mean 4 more years of killing innocent people that actually support this "hitler". and you'd think we learned our lesson from WW2.
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthie
I absolutely agree. i think this is the most corrupt, horrific time in our history, and Bush will go down as the most dangerous president in our country.
In 1999, when Clinton was in office, I was working with a young woman from Colombia. I was personally amused by all the to-do about the most powerful man in the world getting a blow job from a fat chick.
I asked her what she thought of the whole affair and she just shook her head. She told me that she couldn't even go home to Colombia without fear of being killed or kidnapped. It was becoming more and more common for people to become kidnapped. It was so outrageous that they would send people home to get their own ransom. If not paid they would come and kill you.
"Yes", I told her "a little perspective goes a long way in teaching one to appreciate what he takes for granted. We are enjoying very good times indeed if is this blowjob fiasco is our nations greatest concern".
Well, how significant does that sound today? Don't we wish for such concerns.
That being said, I think it is rather myopic to think that these are the worst of times in America. Are we forgeting the time we went to Africa and brought people back to be slaves. When we taught our children that black people were more like cattle than humans. That's right, blacks were not considered "humans", but rather property, to be bought, sold and screwed at the owners desire.
I think Thomas Jefferson enjoyed a good boff or 2.
Then there were the times when women couldn't vote and children were working 16 hour shifts, 7 days a week in sweat shops.
As for Iraq, that is getting a lot of airtime, but consider that the US has been installing new governments in Central and South America since 1900.
I think a little perspective goes a long way, when you try and decide which were Americas' darkest days in regard to political dishonesty and conduct.
So many to chose from. :(
Re: Russians Move Out Volatile Weapons from Iraq
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes
In 1999, when Clinton was in office, I was working with a young woman from Colombia. I was personally amused by all the to-do about the most powerful man in the world getting a blow job from a fat chick.
I asked her what she thought of the whole affair and she just shook her head. She told me that she couldn't even go home to Colombia without fear of being killed or kidnapped. It was becoming more and more common for people to become kidnapped. It was so outrageous that they would send people home to get their own ransom. If not paid they would come and kill you.
"Yes", I told her "a little perspective goes a long way in teaching one to appreciate what he takes for granted. We are enjoying very good times indeed if is this blowjob fiasco is our nations greatest concern".
Well, how significant does that sound today? Don't we wish for such concerns.
That being said, I think it is rather myopic to think that these are the worst of times in America. Are we forgeting the time we went to Africa and brought people back to be slaves. When we taught our children that black people were more like cattle than humans. That's right, blacks were not considered "humans", but rather property, to be bought, sold and screwed at the owners desire.
I think Thomas Jefferson enjoyed a good boff or 2.
Then there were the times when women couldn't vote and children were working 16 hour shifts, 7 days a week in sweat shops.
As for Iraq, that is getting a lot of airtime, but consider that the US has been installing new governments in Central and South America since 1900.
I think a little perspective goes a long way, when you try and decide which were Americas' darkest days in regard to political dishonesty and conduct.
So many to chose from. :(
But after all this through the course of history these events still dont seem to influence the US public's vote, i mean a few months ago the idea of Bush remaining in office was crazy yet look at the polls.
