Happy Pollution Day :01:

It's November 5th :D

What does this mean? :01:

Everyone in the uk goes out and lights a massive bonfire all at once :01:

Damn we're clever :D
Also as long as you're over 16 you can go buy some serious explosive devices (also known as fireworks) from many local shops and go round fireing them into peoples cars and houses and people :D

Also a chance for lil kiddies to make up a doll resembling some Guy to put on top of a bonfire and watch him burn..... while cheering :01:

Just think, all this to celebrate some geezer who ages ago fucked up a crap plot to blow up the houses of parliment :rolleyes: Oh if only they had blue peter back then, he would have known that if he used Plain Flour instead of gun powder, he would have got away with it :frusty:
A small explosive device on one of the barrels would have been enough to ignite the lot and.....Kaboom!! , what a muppet :frusty:

So anyway, we're celebrating this cock up by giving the ozone layer some serious shit tonight :01:

Happy Watch the bloke burn ontop of the fire then explode some stuff day :D

Jonno :cool:

:huh:

You like smilies huh? :P

I'm not sure that we're allowed to talk about burning folk :unsure:

/lock/delete/ban

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by manker

I'm not sure that we're allowed to talk about burning folk :unsure:

/lock/delete/ban

---

:lol:


:ph34r:

@Ike........Yes you annoying barsteward :angry: 8 images indeed :dry:

@Manky......Yes, it's a national celebration, I'm gonna go buy some explosives in a lil while, might chuck em all in a tin and make a big one :frusty:

I'm sorry but we live in one seriously fucked up country, where else in the civilised world can you buy explosives at 16? :frusty:

Jonno :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

I'm sorry but we live in one seriously fucked up country, where else in the civilised world can you buy explosives at 16? :frusty:

Jonno :cool:

---

I think it's great. Thins out the herd a bit. Natural selection and all that, gets rid of the stupid ones.

Though you do have to be 18 these days to buy them or even possess them.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/fireworks.htm

Ah yes, it's good to see lil kiddies all burnt up, scarred faces, lost limbs cos an air bomb repeater went off in their pocket, they love it :01:

Jonno :cool:

Edit : I stand corrected, acording to that link you must be 18 :) That's ok then cos everyone is grown up and responsible enough to handle explosives at 18 :) phew, and I thought we were gonna be in trouble :frusty:

If you feel that strongly right to your MP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Ah yes, it's good to see lil kiddies all burnt up, scarred faces, lost limbs cos an air bomb repeater went off in their pocket, they love it :01:

Jonno :cool:

---

18 year old kiddies in Norfolk, are there :blink:

Did you ever buy anything when you were under age?

Jonno :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Did you ever buy anything when you were under age?

Jonno :cool:

---

Under what age, and what things?

I think I bought my first thing in Ossie's Sweet shop when I was about 4 with some money my Gran gave me. It was a big step for me but hardly on topic.

Stop spamming :dry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Did you ever buy anything when you were under age?

Jonno :cool:

---

Sure. And occasionally I would get stopped.

Setting the age to 18 means less young people will get fireworks. Some still will, of course, but the undeniable fact is that less young people will have fireworks this year.

Personally I think fireworks are a waste of time. Light fuse, rocket goes in the air, BANG! Repeat.

Having said that I live in Plymouth and they put on some of the best professional firework displays in the country. Truly spectacular to go down by the sea and watch some awesome displays.

My advice to any youngsters reading this is to save your money for white cider and go to a professional show.

Spamming? :lol: I'm making a point here :P

Seriously tho, it's a bit stupid, the whole thing, we know the ozone is pretty fucked right? and our cars have to give off low emmisions etc right? But the entire country will have what? 70,000? 150,000 bonfires tonight?
Also the sale of fireworks to the public is a stupid idea, I can't buy proper weed killer, yet I can buy as many fireworks as I want, whats to stop me loading them all into a car or van or just a paint pot and planting it somewhere busy?
With the last few years of the terrorist war it just seems a bit daft :unsure:

Besides, even on the organized displays there are gonna be no end of injuries, and people will have their own displays who know nothing about how to handle fireworks.

How many kids and adults alike will be seriously injured tonight? How much will it cost the tax payer in A&E costs?

Can anyone dissagree with anything I've said so far? :)

Jonno :cool:

Edit @ Cheese.......Yes that's true, but the fact still remains that anyone above that age can buy explosives, yes the pro displays are great, but the sale of fireworks should not be public.

I disagree. I think you are just being a moany spoilsport


Oh my, think of the children :handwringing:

:rolleyes: You just like dissagreeing with me for fun :dry:

I'm sorry but there's nothing right about todays festivities, the reason is sick, the fact that kids make a doll of a human to burn is sick, the sale of explosives is sick, the amount of pollution is sick.
This is 2004, bout time we recognised the amount of injuries and harm to the planet is not worth a few pretty flashes and bangs.

Jonno :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

:rolleyes: You just like dissagreeing with me for fun :dry:

I'm sorry but there's nothing right about todays festivities, the reason is sick, the fact that kids make a doll of a human to burn is sick, the sale of explosives is sick, the amount of pollution is sick.
This is 2004, bout time we recognised the amount of injuries and harm to the planet is not worth a few pretty flashes and bangs.

Jonno :cool:

---

Instead of bitching about a bit of bonfire smoke why don't you moan about how America hasnt signned the Kyoto agreement to kerb industrial pollution, which is far worse :unsure:

Cos everyone is moaning about that, and besides I know nothing about it, I don't do politics :)
And I'm english, not American, I'm afraid I don't worship the US enough to worry about their way of life or their laws :)

Jonno :cool:

Quote:

---

Guy Fawkes Day: Bonfire Night

On November 4, 1605, Guy Fawkes was caught red-handed in the basement of the British Parliament. He was trying to blow up the Houses of Parliament with gunpowder. Ever since then, on November 5, the British have celebrated his capture and execution by burning an effigy (model) of him on bonfires around the nation. Learn more about why he wanted to blow up Parliament, how he was caught and the celebrations.

Although the plot involved blowing up the Houses of Parliament, it was mainly intended to Kill King James I. James had actually started out as King James VI of Scotland. When Queen Elizabeth I died, he was her nearest living relative, and so he became King of England.
Why?

At the time, England was divided on religious grounds. Elizabeth was a protestant, and Head of the Church of England. She persecuted the Catholics and had many priests and important Catholics executed. Needless to say, the Catholics weren't very happy about this. When she died they danced in the streets and celebrated her death. James had given the Catholics a private promise that he would stop the persecutions, if he became King.

As the Catholics were soon to learn, people will say anything to get power. James may have really intended helping the Catholics, but Parliament was against them, and he continued on where Elizabeth had left off.

The whole problem had begun with Henry VIII, Elizabeth's father. England had been Catholic and the Church had had a lot power. Henry had fallen out with the Pope because he couldn't get divorced. He had then formed the Church of England, declaring himself its Head, and given himself a divorce. The Catholics were determined to restore their Church to power and get rid of the Church of England. Unfortunately members of the Church of England felt exactly the same way. A group of English Catholics was fighting with the Spanish Army. They hoped that if they managed to get rid of James, the Spanish could come in and conquer England. Then they could restore the Catholic Church to its powerful position.
Who and How?

Some of these Catholics got together, recruited Guy Fawkes to do the dirty work, and hatched their plot. First, they rented a house with a basement that lay under the House of Lords (part of the Houses of Parliament). Then, they moved barrels of gunpowder into the basement, hiding it under piles of wood. They needed to blow up the building when King James, his family and all of the non-Catholic members of Parliament were in it. This had to be the day Parliament opened for a new session. That year, due to fear of plague, the opening of the Houses of Parliament was delayed for over 8 months. The delay meant the plot failed.

Too many people got to hear about the plot. Someone who knew about it had a relative who was a Member of Parliament. Not wanting his relative killed, he sent him a message telling him about the plot. The relative, Lord Monteagle, sent the letter to the King. The plotters knew that someone had told about the plot, but were determined to carry on anyway. Guy Fawkes, under the alias of John Johnson, was arrested in the basement, just a few hours before he was due to light the fuse.

He was taken to the Tower of London, tortured until he signed a confession, and publicly executed on January 31, 1606. The other plotters were hunted down and shot or executed.

Celebrations


The tradition of lighting bonfires on November 5, started the same year as the plot itself. People, happy that the King had been saved, lit bonfires in the streets. Over the years the celebrations became more elaborate, and effigies of Guy Fawkes and even the Pope were added to the top of the fires. Fireworks came a little later. All towns and villages used to have a fire, then the tradition became for people to have private fires and firework displays.

Children make their effigies (or dummies) and parade them in the streets before bonfire night. They ask for "a penny for the Guy" and use the money collected to buy fireworks. Because of increased safety regulations most towns and villages have begun having public bonfires again. These days private bonfires are few and there are not many "Guys" on display in the streets.
Nursery Rhyme

Most British children learn the nursery rhyme about the plot when they are very young. This is how it goes:

Remember, remember the fifth of November,
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
We see no reason
Why Gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.

Important Note

Fireworks and bonfires are always a lot of fun, but they can also be very dangerous.

---

..


Well you should worry Jonno, every other country involved hs signed the agreement to limit and reduce the amount of industrial polluttion they produce, America which produces over half if I remember rightly told them where they could stick it.

Thats going to do a lot more more harm than a few thousand bonfires once a year :dry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

:rolleyes: You just like dissagreeing with me for fun :dry:
Jonno :cool:

---

I think you'll find people disagree with you because you take on a very superior, almost smug, air that you know best. And stop using that fucking smilie when you make a point. :)

On-topic: The damage to the environment is far outweighed by the industries of countries like the US. It's a few nights every year ffs.

Quote:

---

In recent years approximately 1,000 people per year have required treatment at hospital casualty departments with 5% of these being classed as "serious accidents" requiring a stay of one or more nights in hospital. With the new regulations it is hoped that this level of injuries will be reduced.

---

It's sad that people get injured but I wonder what percentage were acting like idiots? I'd say it was pretty high.

I'd probably agree on a ban on the sale of fireworks but the continuation of professional displays. After all they are entertaining to a lot of people.

You'd have to be a pretty joyless person to deny people the right to watch a "few pretty flashes and bangs" in a controlled environment.

:lol:

I seriously couldn't give a shit about fireworks being on sale to the general public.

There are other things to worry about. Fireworks aren't for me but they do provide some with entertainment.

Jonno, your argument that they should be illegal to sell to people because of the damage to the environment, the injuries they cause and the cost of medical treatment to the Treasury is rubbish.

You're a smoker, ffs :rolleyes:

Priorities, priorities, priorites.

:) I'll use whatever smilies I want thankyou :)

You got me a bit wrong here, you say I'm smug yet you agree?
Ok I'll break it down

1: The US pollution thing has nothing to do with this, we are in England, we have no say what the US does.
Also just because they are doing that it makes it right for England to litter the sky with thick smog from thousands of bonfires?
Are we really that childish? "Well they do it, so why can't we?" :frusty:

2: Yes the sale of fireworks should be banned for a number of reasons.

3: Yes a high percentage of those injured are messing about being stupid, that's exactly my point of the sale of explosives.

4: No I never said I wanted firework displays to finish, I enjoy them, but done profeesionally. Not in a back garden by drunk dad.

Jonno :cool:

@ Manker.....I wonder if (god forbid) an accident which caused serious harm to a loved one thru a firework in the hands of a twat would allow you to keep the same opinion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

@ Manker.....I wonder if (god forbid) an accident which caused serious harm to a loved one thru a firework in the hands of a twat would allow you to keep the same opinion?

---

Of course it would.

I know people who've died when they've been drunk but I don't want to ban alcohol. I know people who've dies through smoking, yet I don't want that banned either. I have my priorities straight.

Also, we may be in a different country to those in the US but, correct me if I'm wrong here, we're all under the same ozone layer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DanB

I disagree. I think you are just being a moany spoilsport


Oh my, think of the children :handwringing:

---

How can the children ring hands Dan. Unless they have Bells Palsy or is that face ringing?:unsure:

1) The US pollution point I rasied because you were having a paddy about the damage to the ozone from the bonfire smoke, I just wanted to put things in perspective for you.

2) Firework sales shouldn't be banned, I think the age of 18 is a fair enough limit but if you were to ban them then that should only be to the general public not to proffesionals

3) So dicks being dicks with firerworks should get them all banned? Thats like banning cars cos people have crashes while driving drunk or showing off

4) You said you wanted them banned, ra ra pollution, that gives the idea you want ALL fireworks banned

:Manker......you agree with the sale of explosives to ANYone over the age of 18?

:Dan...No I don't want fireworks banned because of pollution, I want the general sale of them banned, I'll put something into perspective for you.

I'm 27, I cannot buy good weed killer because of it's explosive content.
I cannot carry a penknife even tho I use it for work.
I cannot buy any kind of bird scarring explosive device without a liscence.
I cannot buy creosote due to it's chemical content (even thjo thined down)

there's a shitload of stuff I can't do and buy, but!........

I CAN buy as many explosives as I want, from a toy shop.

You're telling me that's right?

And like I said, just cos the US are doing that and I'm not moaning about it does'nt mean we have to follow does it? Are we not an independant country?
I'm talking about what WE (the UK) are doing today, the US thing is a totally different issue.

Jonno :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

:) I'll use whatever smilies I want thankyou :)

You got me a bit wrong here, you say I'm smug yet you agree?

---

You don't want to discuss things. You just want to rant at us.

On-topic: Why should the vast majority of people who use fireworks safely be made to suffer because of a tiny minority of stupid people?

More people will get injured this weekend because of drinking than due to fireworks. We don't ban that either because the vast majority of people do things safely.

I only said I may be on the side of a ban. I haven't given it a huge deal of thought. Setting off a few fireworks on New Year's eve is always fun and I'd hate to have that right taken away from me for a very minor gain.

So answer the question Jonno. Why should the majority of people suffer for a very small minority of idiots?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

So you agree with the sale of explosives to ANYone over the age of 18?

Jonno :cool:

---

Not explosives Jonno, fireworks, I don't think a 19 year old lad should be able to buy C4 from Mr Patel's

Quote:

---

firework in the hands of a twat

---

Now there is a thought to ponder with for the rest of the day. Must admit i've seen a few old bangers in my day.:cool:


@Jonno!. What is the point of laws. Some people honestly think that laws dont apply to them. They are supposed to apply to everyone else.:wacko:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DanB

4) You said you wanted them banned, ra ra pollution, that gives the idea you want ALL fireworks banned

---

That's a good point dan. If the pollution card is being played then I'd say professional shows probably do cause more pollution (which I still think is negilible when compared to even our own industry/automobile pollution) than people from their back gardens.

So if you're using pollution as an argument you have to be for a total ban of fireworks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DanB

Not explosives Jonno, fireworks, I don't think a 19 year old lad should be able to buy C4 from Mr Patel's

---

Go buy £100's worth of fireworks and empty them into a paint can, then stick a fuse in the top and light it, would you stand anywhere near it?

No, because it will explode, firewoks are pretty explosives, they explode, they contain variants of gunpwder, they are mini bombs, simple :)

@Cheese........Don't play that card, I'm not ranting at all, I'm making a point.you dissagree, thats fine, but all the arguments so far against it have been weak, avoiding the point that explosives are readily available. And that thousands of bonfires will be lit when they are banned the rest of the year.

Jonno :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

@Cheese........Don't play that card, I'm not ranting at all, I'm making a point.you dissagree, thats fine, but all the arguments so far against it have been weak, avoiding the point that explosives are readily available. And that thousands of bonfires will be lit when they are banned the rest of the year.

Jonno :cool:

---

Your arguments are weak Jonno not mine. You didn't answer my question, perhaps you don't have an answer?

Why should the majority suffer because of a stupid and very small minority?

Btw You can make a bomb out of a lot of stuff that is freely available.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

:Manker......you agree with the sale of explosives to ANYone over the age of 18?

:Dan...No I don't want fireworks banned because of pollution, I want the general sale of them banned, I'll put something into perspective for you.

I'm 27, I cannot buy good weed killer because of it's explosive content.
I cannot carry a penknife even tho I use it for work.
I cannot buy any kind of bird scarring explosive device without a liscence.
I cannot buy creosote due to it's chemical content (even thjo thined down)

there's a shitload of stuff I can't do and buy, but!........

I CAN buy as many explosives as I want, from a toy shop.

You're telling me that's right?

And like I said, just cos the US are doing that and I'm not moaning about it does'nt mean we have to follow does it? Are we not an independant country?
I'm talking about what WE (the UK) are doing today, the US thing is a totally different issue.

Jonno :cool:

---

Thats a pretty hefty edit 6 minutes later when no one will see it :dry:

Since when has been it illegal to have a bonfire any other time than this weekend? :blink:

The arguements haven't been weak you melt, what are you arguments for banning them? Cos some poeple are nobs and injure themselves with it?

Well fuck me, why don't we ban cars on that strength, and alchol, oh and Xmas fairy lights cos they can catch fire

Jonno, if you want some creosote let me know, I'll pop down the place wherre I went for an interview last week, they pointed it out to me on my tour of the warehouse

Actually cheese making a bomb now is'nt that easy from household stuff, why do you think things like Sodium Clorate don't work very well anymore? and creosote is now off the market?

I apologise, I did'nt see your question, my answer is simple.

Because there will be thousand of Children!!! badly burned tonight thru stupidity, you compared to drunk people, they are adults, most people injured are plastered and doing stupid things, but the majority of kids (and adults) injured and possibly killed today will be thru other people, throwing exploding devices, planting them, stuffing them thru letter boxes etc, you don't seem to understand my point, whatever you think the bare fact is these are Explosives, no different to a bomb, just prettier, the insides are the same.
You would'nt agree with anyone who wanted to looking for landmines along our beachses and exploding them themselfs would you? Same thing, cept these fireworks are projectile bombs.

Jonno :cool:

@ Dan........there are restrictions on houshold bonfires now, go down your local council and ask for details as it varies from county to county.
As for the rest, see above.And creosote is illegal to seel since April this year :) I should know.

For starters fireworks are nowhere near as powerful as landmines :rolleyes:

Did you see the link cheese posted? 1000 injuries at A&E, not thouhsands of badly scarred little children, stop exaggerating.

You haven't said what you thaought about abnning the other items I suggested that can cause injury

You should know? Do you sell creosote in the newsagents then? :ermm:

I see your point Jonno.:( But no way are you going to stop it. Unless you lock up every kid(Including big kids) in the country for a couple of weeks.Just keep sober tonight Jonno.:) Remember, Remember the 5th of November. Then you wont go flying out to sea every time you see a flare go up.:)

:lol:

That's the first time I'd seen that edit too!

Jonno, your arguments have all been dealt with:

- The pollution one, cause it's insignificant c.f other pollutants.

- The cost to the Treasury because of injuries, you're a smoker and ya can't have it both ways.

- The dangerousity of explosives being on sale, they are no more dangerous to the general public than petrol - they are also much more expensive, this is why a molotov cocktail isn't made out of fireworks.


Did you like my new word :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jonno

dan...No I don't want fireworks banned because of pollution, I want the general sale of them banned, I'll put something into perspective for you.

---

For not wanting them banned cos of pollution you sure mentioned it enough :huh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jonno

Seriously tho, it's a bit stupid, the whole thing, we know the ozone is pretty fucked right? and our cars have to give off low emmisions etc right? But the entire country will have what? 70,000? 150,000 bonfires tonight?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jonno

I'm sorry but there's nothing right about todays festivities, the reason is sick, the fact that kids make a doll of a human to burn is sick, the sale of explosives is sick, the amount of pollution is sick.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jonno

Also just because they are doing that it makes it right for England to litter the sky with thick smog from thousands of bonfires?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Actually cheese making a bomb now is'nt that easy from household stuff, why do you think things like Sodium Clorate don't work very well anymore? and creosote is now off the market?

I apologise, I did'nt see your question, my answer is simple.

Because there will be thousand of Children!!! badly burned tonight thru stupidity, you compared to drunk people, they are adults, most people injured are plastered and doing stupid things, but the majority of kids (and adults) injured and possibly killed today will be thru other people, throwing exploding devices, planting them, stuffing them thru letter boxes etc, you don't seem to understand my point, whatever you think the bare fact is these are Explosives, no different to a bomb, just prettier, the insides are the same.
You would'nt agree with anyone who wanted to looking for landmines along our beachses and exploding them themselfs would you? Same thing, cept these fireworks are projectile bombs.

Jonno

---

That doesn't really answer my question really does it?

I accept the fact that there will be injuries at this time of year. Unfortunately, for the most, this will be down to stupidity. In fact you've listed the ways that these injuries could occur.

However you offer no answer to the crux of my question which is why should the vast majority of responsible adults be made to suffer because of an irresponsible minority?

It seems to me that the tightening of the laws regarding fireworks is the best way.

I fail to see the significance of landmines in this discussion. These are not devices that if used correctly will not cause harm to anyone. Pure and simply they are designed to injure and kill.

Also your rhetoric is too emotional here, you are implying that a 1000 children will be badly burned tonight. That simply is not true.

The figure would be nearer 50, with perhaps around 1000 minor injuries.

However this is also questionable with the new restrictions. I would hazard we will see far fewer injuries this year.

There is a happy medium. That of tighter restrictions and better education. Children with fireworks should have them confiscated and the adult who supplied them fined heavily. That would be a start. I'm sure we can all come up with other ideas.

I think with this approach you'd see a heft drop.

Will there still be injuries? Yes. But for the joy and entertainment that is to be had it's more than worth it. Everything comes at some price. Like smoking for instance.

@Mnker....-

Quote:

---

The pollution one, cause it's insignificant c.f other pollutants.

---

So that makes it right for us to do it? Korea are brutal to animals, does that mean because they do it , it makes it ok for us to?

Quote:

---

The cost to the Treasury because of injuries, you're a smoker and ya can't have it both ways.

---

Thats a fiar comment, I can't really argue that.

Quote:

---

The dangerousity of explosives being on sale, they are no more dangerous to the general public than petrol - they are also much more expensive, this is why a molotov cocktail isn't made out of fireworks

---

(This answer also applies to cheese)

Why ban guns and knives etc? If it's ok to have fireworks just cos the few spoil it, what about guns? I used to love going on fields shooting targets (never animals).
I also collect knives but my current collection is ilegal and should have been handed in.
I suffered because of stupid people , was that fair?
Before you answer that, just tell me if a firework can kill?

@Dan ...... Dude nowhere in those quotes does it say fireworks should be banned due to pollution, it says bonfires. Big piles of tyres, polystirene and various other shit that gives off black smoke.

As for creosote, no mate, I worked in a hardware store that sold it, I was also a builder when it was banned, thats why I should know, because I've bought 100's of gallons of it and worked with it for years, I can no longer buy it.
If you can prove me wrong I will apologise, but prove me wrong you wont :)

Jonno :cool:

Edit about the injuries...... Last year 3 people died in East Anglia due to fireworks, I don't care what the count is, the FACT is thousands of people will get hurt, be it minor and unreported or serious. And the majority will be at private displays or just on the street.