Everyone keeps on about America

How come no one moans about the other countries?

This Yassa Arafat thing, they are burning tyres :huh: Nice and healthy for the ozone.
Suicide Bombers, 14 y/o children getting on a bus and blowing themselves up, inocent people being tested on, does' no one care about any of this?

Is America really the scary nation?

I don't think so, when New York welded shut all it's manhole covers for New year because of the threat of bombers, alarm bells were ringing.
I don't feel safe going to london or a big city for the fear of someone walking into a pub and detonating a nail bomb.
The world is living in fear because these people who have no respect for human life are everywhere and we have no way of knowing who is who and who is fighting for what.

Maybe instead of talking shit about polotics and how the US should'nt have done this and that, maybe we would be better to concentrate on the real problem.
These people are brutally murdering inocent people who are actually trying to help.

So maybe we should stfu about america and Bush considering he's the only one who had the nuts to stand up and let these animals know that if they want a fight, they'll get one.
Unfortunately it's impossible to fight such a group, they have no care or feeling for anything and follow a set of rules THEY say is religious yet no where in any religious text does it sate you must maim and murder inocent people?

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

I don't feel safe going to london or a big city for the fear of someone walking into a pub and detonating a nail bomb.

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Really? Thats quite sad :(

Yeah seriously Dan, I could not live in london, it would do my head in :(

Smells too :P

Jonno :cool:

You got some points there I agree with.

I dont like Big cities.
Ppl are nasty there.

Not because of Terrorist only, but the Big ones just freak me out.

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Yeah seriously Dan, I could not live in london, it would do my head in :(

Smells too :P

Jonno :cool:

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You forgot to add that all that traffic frightens your horse.:rolleyes: :lol:

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

they are burning tyres :huh: Nice and healthy for the ozone.

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Not burning tyres :ohmy:





:P

I'm not touching this with a barge pole :confused:

@Dan..... You guys all went on about america pollution, and you must realise that burning tyres is about as bad as it gets for pollution?

@Manker ..... Why not? I'm just saying what most are too afraid to, everyone is bashing the US because so many people are, but most are too afraid to say anything about the other countries, the ones which are the real threat.
Why? Because it's rascist?......So what is slagging of America? Are they not a race?

Jonno :cool:

America is the most powerful country in the world and it's actions within and outside have a bearing on all our lives so it's only natural that people discuss these topics so frequently.

These discussions are some of the most interesting and informative on this board. Long may they continue, I enjoy reading them.

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

America is the most powerful country in the world and it's actions within and outside have a bearing on all our lives

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Define Powerful?
Money?
Weapons?
Army's?
Land mass?
Followers?
Fanatics?

What is powerful?

And the other countries have a major baring on our lives too, other nations in their way have just as much baring than the US

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

@Dan..... You guys all went on about america pollution, and you must realise that burning tyres is about as bad as it gets for pollution?

@Manker ..... Why not? I'm just saying what most are too afraid to, everyone is bashing the US because so many people are, but most are too afraid to say anything about the other countries, the ones which are the real threat.
Why? Because it's rascist?......So what is slagging of America? Are they not a race?

Jonno :cool:

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I'm not touching it it for a few reasons. I totally disagree but I don't have a whole afternoon to waste, like I did yesterday - and it wasn't even you :dry:

You'll come up with things like that - slagging off a country's foreign policy is NOT racist. Think about it.

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Define Powerful?
Money?
Weapons?
Army's?
Land mass?
Followers?
Fanatics?

What is powerful?

And the other countries have a major baring on our lives too, other nations in their way have just as much baring than the US

Jonno :cool:

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Economic and military might for a start, but it goes much deeper.

Other countries have a bearing on our life too but USA permeates our lives like no other country in the entire world.

No, I said that slagging off the US is rascist, same as anything else, if I said that a country has a crap president and are mudereds and should'nt be allowed to do stuff, you would all say I was being rascist.
I don't see the difference.

Still, you have the right to not want to participate :) I wont judge you for that.

These are my views, you either agree or you don't, I don't really care, but like everyone is moaning abuot the US, I'm moaning about them moaning about the US.

Jonno :cool:

Edit @Cheese .... Yes exactly, so why does no one ever moan about other countries which DO have major bearings on our lives?

Well, Jonno, I think part of the problem is, and I hate to use the term, but it is not "trendy" at the moment here. Discussing the plights in South America where drug lords rule certain governments doesn't really interest people because they haven't taken the time to learn of these things. It would take away time to find things on google to snipe about dealing with the U.S. so they will seem to be of the "intellegencia".

Another thing I find funny, is people talk say that the U.S. could completely cut itself off from the world and no one would really notice, yet at the same time they say how much their daily life is effected by the U.S.

I quess this would mean they would not be able to drink their Cokes and eat their McDonald's while they spew their hateful diatribes hopeing someone will think they are "smart".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

No, I said that slagging off the US is rascist, same as anything else, if I said that a country has a crap president and are mudereds and should'nt be allowed to do stuff, you would all say I was being rascist.

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To be fair, Jonno. I'd probably post a :blink: and say wtf.

Slagging off a president, foreign policy and whatever 'stuff' you didn't think GWB shouldn't be allowed to do is not racist.

We do..

Just no one else has as much affect on my life..

I slag off Blaire often...

but Chirac, as an example, doesnt affect meas much, except by particularly stupid EU desicions...and then i slag them off...

I slag off Bush for stuff that affects me... I dont know about other stuff like "No Child Left Behind" etc..

I am concerned and affected by his Foreign, Environmental and Financial Polices though...so thats what i attack. If they had no affect on me and mine, i probably wouldnt give a stuff about what he was doing or who the President was... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Comic_Peddler

Well, Jonno, I think part of the problem is, and I hate to use the term, but it is not "trendy" at the moment here. Discussing the plights in South America where drug lords rule certain governments doesn't really interest people because they haven't taken the time to learn of these things. It would take away time to find things on google to snipe about dealing with the U.S. so they will seem to be of the "intellegencia".

Another thing I find funny, is people talk say that the U.S. could completely cut itself off from the world and no one would really notice, yet at the same time they say how much their daily life is effected by the U.S.

I quess this would mean they would not be able to drink their Cokes and eat their McDonald's while they spew their hateful diatribes hopeing someone will think they are "smart".

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Please... Feel welcome to start a thread on Colombia...
:devil:

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

Edit @Cheese .... Yes exactly, so why does no one ever moan about other countries which DO have major bearings on our lives?

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They just pale into insignificance in their impact when compared to the United States.

Can you think of any other country that has such an effect on us? Any other country that has brought us into a war, for instance?

I'm glad we have these threads because otherwise I'd never get the counter-view to the general anti-American feeling in this country. I could never find someone here who thought it was a good idea to re-elect Bush but yet I can come here and listen to their opinions.

I'm not a huge fan of the U.S. for a number of reasons though I avoid the "hateful diatribes" as much as I avoid McDonalds and coca-cola. I have my own opinions which I don't usually express on this board but I am fascinated by other people's veiws on this topic.

I can think of worse things for the enviroment than burning tyres. How about factories that have no limits placed on their polluttion?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Comic_Peddler

Another thing I find funny, is people talk say that the U.S. could completely cut itself off from the world and no one would really notice, yet at the same time they say how much their daily life is effected by the U.S.

I quess this would mean they would not be able to drink their Cokes and eat their McDonald's while they spew their hateful diatribes hopeing someone will think they are "smart".

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Just going to post on this bit.

many Americans do have the opinion that the world needs us more than we need them, and it's often the same people with this attitude that champion the "cutting off " idea... "let's see the world cope then".

fact is we need the world. We could survive without it but not with the same level of "luxury" we enjoy now. We only became a superpower because of the benefits we enjoyed in our relationship with the world...trade and technology etc...
Someone the other day ( i think it was the robbin williams thread ) suggested we don't buy oil from the ME...that will teach them a lesson.... but what if the ME suddenly refused to sell oil to us?...who do you think would be more at a disadvantage?
Cutting ourselves off would be more detrimental to us than it would to the world. After all, some other country would benefit from the openings we leave behind.
At the end of the day all that would be achieved by total lock down is inconvenience...life would go on with a bit of adjustment :)


To the thread point.

Personally i talk more about the USA because it is my country and if I can't look at my own country without a critical eye, what right do i have to look at others.
The only way to make improvements in life is to admit imperfections and try to resolve them.
I don't think the USA is evil...it is a great country with wonderful people....just sometimes we get things wrong.

@CM .......Exactly, thankyou :)

@Cheese .... Thats fair enough :) I personally thought the idea of an election which could possibly rupture the foundation of the US at a time like this was silly.
I like Bush because he has nuts, like Maggie Thatcher, (altho she did'nt litterally have nuts as far as I know) and yes she was a corrupt bitch, but she did'nt stand for threats to our nation, same as Bush, he's not willing to let these people walk over us.

I'll say something controversial now, I apologise if it upsets anyone, please remember it's a thought on my behalf and not my own view, more of an observation.

This thing with kidnapping people and slicing their heads off, everyone thinks it's wrong and sick right?
Yes it is, but what if we did it as retaliation?
The problem being that we are "Civil" people and don't do it.
Fire fire with flowers is what we do.
These people do not understand that. What if we fought fire with fire?

What if we done to them what they do to us?

The point being that altho the US has many things people think are wrong, so does every country, before judging other countries maybe everyone should take a long hard look at their own.

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by vidcc

Just going to post on this bit.

many Americans do have the opinion that the world needs us more than we need them, and it's often the same people with this attitude that champion the "cutting off " idea... "let's see the world cope then".

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Please don't get me wrong vidcc, I do not subcribe to that thought process. I was merely talking about the duality some people seem to have. I mean I fail to understand how one person can think we are nothing and the world doesn't need the U.S. yet at the same time we effect how many billions of people. How can we be nothing AND have a huge effect at the same time?

Its hardly fighting fire with flowers when you are bombing the crap out off and assualting their supposed base though.

There's no way the US or UK forces are going to start beheading the prisoners they have taken, trust me :lol:

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Originally Posted by Comic_Peddler

Please don't get me wrong vidcc, I do not subcribe to that thought process. I was merely talking about the duality some people seem to have. I mean I fail to understand how one person can think we are nothing and the world doesn't need the U.S. yet at the same time we effect how many billions of people. How can we be nothing AND have a huge effect at the same time?

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i probably could have worded it better but then i would have been even longer winded than usual :lol: i didn't actually think you suggest cutting ourselves off.

The biggest influence we have on the world isn't our culture, although it could be connected.... it's our actions. Sometimes our actions are not appreciated as we think they should be. One wrong can cancel out a thousand rights :(

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Originally Posted by DanB

There's no way the US or UK forces are going to start beheading the prisoners they have taken, trust me :lol:

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Yes I know that :rolleyes: I did'nt mean they should :lol:

I meant they do these things but no one ever says anything for fear of being called rascist etc, I agree the bombing the crap out of everything cos you THINK there are bad people there is a bit silly and civilians are murederd in effect. But we don't film it and post it all over the net for friends and families to see.
There are a lot sicker people and nations out there than the US.

The yanks are just big headed :P :lol: (ok thats a joke and not meant to offend)

Jonno :cool:

No one ever says what for fear for of being called racist?

i think if you look you'll find plenty of posts renouncing the beheading activities

I was just using those as an example :)

I did'nt mean that topic exactly, the whole point of this thread is that there are other big fish in the world that are far worse than the US, yet no one ever mentions them.Take your sig fro example Dan,

Guns don't kill people, George Bush does.

Why Bush? Bin laden has killed far more, so did Sadam Hussien and many others, Bush went to war for a reason he believed, the others just kill cos they can.

Jonno :cool:

The reason people attack (verbally I mean) the US is because it presents itself as the perfect model which we should all aspire to emulate. The truth is that it has a corrupt, undemocratic, bullying, hypocritical regime with delusions of grandeur.

Bush's administration has effectively said that if I don't agree with their policies then I am as bad as those who carry out atrocities around the world. Not surprisingly I take offence at this enormous slur. Under the circumstances I think my condemnation of their policies is comparatively mild.

There is a rumour that the US thinks of itself as the "land of the free". It's citizens could do with taking a close look at Denmark and Germany - they produce much better fairy stories.

:lol: My sig is just a little play on spinningfreemanny's

They kill for a reason they believe in too Jonno

As Americans we are an easy target. We have a large and powerful country AND we are willing to hold these types of discussions. I don't see many Russians or Chinese getting into many of these discussions.

Look at what happened in the Netherlands. You write shit about America we write shit back, you write shit about the Middle East and people come and kill you.

To me, it just makes us a safe target for people to talk shit about when in fact we have the most cultures represented here in the U.S., more than any place at any time in history. They are now burning mosques in Nl. too I read. Does this make the Netherlands a bad place?

Not in the least, but every place has its' particular issues, and people like to dramatize the actions of the U.S. and it has been so since we became a nation, a fact that I would rather people not forget. People will still be taking issue with us 100 years from now.

Sure we have negatives to our culture but it isn't that bad either, not in the least. We are just the safest superpower to talk shit about.

-SJ™

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Originally Posted by SuperJude™

You write shit about America we write shit back, you write shit about the Middle East and people come and kill you.

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Thats it, right there.

@Dan .... I know what your sig is, I was just using it as an example to help me explain my point :) and what is their belief? that the world is a better place without the US and the UK and anyone who does'nt believe in their god.
It's all religion and being backed up with bibles and such shit which like I said state no where that they must hunt and kill people for their cause.

@Lynx ...... Thats fine, but they say you are as bad, you walk into certain places in the middle east and say you dissagree with them, what do you think would happen? Stoned to death? Beheaded? Burnt? , America simply "Says" things, it does'nt murder people for having a different belief.

Jonno :cool:

I beg to differ over the america simply says things part

Ok could you give me an example please? :)

Where the US have gone gung ho over something that has been "Said".
Also since when have they gone into war because someone dissagree's?
They went into Iraq for the reason that like it or not, no one can deny that Saddam Hussien was a threat to the world, maybe not at the time they invaded, but what should they have done? Wait for him to flatten a country before acting? Let him build up a military capable of putting up a real fight?.
Same with many others.

I think a lot of the Iraq thing was frustration from not finding Bin Laden, someone had to pay type of thing, but it was going to happen sooner or later and needed to be done.

Remember one thing, the Us and UK did not start this, we did'nt waltz into their country and start blowing things up cos they don't believe in our god.

If someone just walked upto you in a pub and punched you, would you punch him back? or say Sorry and walk away?

Jonno :cool:

jon.

I appreciate your point, but could it be because of the fact that what the USA does affects more on an international scale than many others that do far worse things.

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

@Lynx ...... Thats fine, but they say you are as bad, you walk into certain places in the middle east and say you dissagree with them, what do you think would happen? Stoned to death? Beheaded? Burnt? , America simply "Says" things, it does'nt murder people for having a different belief.

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The big difference is that these other countries aren't holding themselves up as paragons of virtue.

Peace in the Middle East could probably have been achieved a long time ago, or at least been much closer than it is today if US policy about UN resolutions had at least been consistent.

Thousands of people are dying in Iraq because the US and UK decided they were going to uphold certain resolutions (which did not allow for use of force), a little more than just "saying things". Yet when anyone suggests upholding equally strong resolutions against Israel the US immediately blocks it with a veto. Then, with the next breath Bush denounces the UN as a useless talking shop. Seems he wants it all ways. Not surprisingly there are those who see this as unjust, and that some of them are willing to fight for a what they regard as justice. You or I might do the same under similar circumstances.

Yes quite possibly :)

I'm not saying the US is wonderful, no Nation is free of guilt, I just wonder why no one ever mentions any other countries :)

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by Jon L. Obscene

I just wonder why no one ever mentions any other countries :)

Jonno :cool:

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Originally Posted by Eddie izzard to a NEW York audience

" do you even know there's other countries ?

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. . . .

All I have to say (without reading this thread) is that it's a huge difference in responsibility between individuals and goverments (see the israel - palestinian conflict as an example)

You can't influence these sick individuals, but you can (one hopes) influence goverments.

And when unjustice is done, in this case from america, you have a responsibility as a human beeing to speak up instead of acting like an opressed twat (regardless of you beeing one or not)!

@Lynx . Yes I do understand that :) My point is we are forever thumping the US, I'm English the US has very little bearing on my life, what Bush does and does'nt do does not relly effect me, but when a bomb goes off in a major city in My country of origin it worries me and DOES have an effect on my life.
The US does'nt kill my fellow English people.
The US is on our side, the fight against those who are trying to eradicate anyone who does not believe in their god.

In short, The US and UK retaliated not started.
What would have happend if the UK did'nt retaliate against Hitler?, we went in long before he hurt an Englishman, personally I think the thing with Iraq was the same, except they caught it before it got out of hand.

@Vidcc ... I'm sorry I don't understand your post :)

Jonno :cool:

I wasn't aware that there had been any bombs by Islamic fanatics in the UK :huh:


What Bush does and doesn't do does effect on your life though Jonno :)