Rumsfeld Faces Dissent From US Troops

http://www.tennessean.com/local/arch...1/62527604.jpg

US troops on their way to Iraq peppered the defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, with complaints yesterday, claiming they were heading into the conflict zone with pieces of scrap metal for armour.
During a frank exchange at a base in Kuwait, 12 miles from the Iraqi border, Mr Rumsfeld was asked why armour was not available for vehicles travelling to northern Iraq and how long the so-called "stop-loss" policy, which prevents soldiers from leaving the service, would be applied.

Speaking from the audience, Thomas Wilson asked: "Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to up-armour our vehicles?"

Hundreds of troops applauded and when Mr Rumsfeld appeared not to hear, Mr Wilson said: "We do not have proper armoured vehicles to carry with us north."


More: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...369804,00.html

http://www.tennessean.com/local/arch...nt_ID=62527603

What's funny about this is that you will hear many conservatives say:


"That's a small number of troops complaining."

"I know soldiers too and they have no problem."


I DO know that morale over there is in the toilet and it's mainly to do with how they are equipped and why they are there in first place.

The bad part is...they signed up so if the President wants to send them on a half-baked broad mission....they HAVE to oblige.

There are also 8 troops filing lawsuits challenging the "stop-loss" policy.

Only 1 has been named.

It's the same over here, I'm sure you've heard.

The UK has always been caught short when it comes to supplies. It's like they're trying to save every every penny it must be so frustrating.

For example:

The vast majority of our tanks in Iraq were plagued with problems with not being able to filter the sand. The same applied to our apaches we had over there.

The uniform. My god. It was a joke. Whilst US troops were already in their sand coloured combat's, our boys were sent over to Iraq in freaking GREEN. I mean talk about not standing out!!

Also, there was a shortage of bullet proof vests, so the soldiers were embarrased to ask the US to borrow some... until they found out they were short too!

It's a joke, it really is. These men and women are willing to lay down their lives and the people in charge are just taking that for granted. I bet they'd soon listen up if everyone just didn't join.

On a last note, there was a read in one of our papers a few years back. Basically, the MoD (Ministry Of Defence) decided it would be cheaper if they didn't use live or blank rounds during exercises as it cost too much. Instead, they were told to shout "BANG!!!"

Ridiculous. The US isn't the only country with military problems, that's for sure.

Samurai

CNN really did a nice job of sanitizing this story in favor of Rumsfeld. The whole "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want," comment was edited out, as well as the applause after the soldier repeated his comment (which made him seem like a lone, disgruntled troublemaker).

Seriously, with the unlimited checkbook the Military has been getting this is embarrasing. Kerry brought the subject up several times during the debates (and before), yet the Bush administration still pretends to be surprised hearing this. It's what you get with a presidential administration consisting of people who never served (and yes, that includes Bush)...

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You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want

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If I had been the soldier that got that reply I would have raised the point that this was a war of choice, this was a war where timing was decided and not forced upon us.
excuses for putting our service personnel in more danger because of inadequate equipment given the fact that this was a planned war are unacceptable and yet again I would like to know why nobody is being held accountable

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Originally Posted by vidcc

If I had been the soldier that got that reply I would have raised the point that this was a war of choice, this was a war where timing was decided and not forced upon us.
excuses for putting our service personnel in more danger because of inadequate equipment given the fact that this was a planned war are unacceptable and yet again I would like to know why nobody is being held accountable

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I love that post.

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Originally Posted by vidcc

and yet again I would like to know why nobody is being held accountable

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Why on earth would you expect anybody to be "held accountable"?

Bush was re-elected without having to justify any of his disasterous policy decisions, what do you think has changed?

Apparently the scapegoat for any Iraq problems is going to be Colin Powell...how convenient.
The lone voice in the administration who cautioned against the precipitous rush to invade will bear the brunt of the majority's failures, but then again, he is resigning so it's easy to lay off the reponsibility on him.

Bush has never been wrong about anything, so as far as he's concerned there is no account to settle.

Clocker i do understand exactly what you are saying, you have just highlighted my frustration with this present and indeed any administration.

just admitting mistakes would go a long way to gaining trust and respect (unless they just continue making the same mistakes )

I don't expect anyone to be infailable, i do however expect people to accept responsibility for mistakes. This doesn't mean either that i expect them to resign over silly mistakes, however in certain jobs sheer incompetence costs lives and in those cases the incompetent should be removed and a competant person replace him/her.

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Originally Posted by Samurai

On a last note, there was a read in one of our papers a few years back. Basically, the MoD (Ministry Of Defence) decided it would be cheaper if they didn't use live or blank rounds during exercises as it cost too much. Instead, they were told to shout "BANG!!!"

Ridiculous. The US isn't the only country with military problems, that's for sure.

Samurai

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This is a slander, we got issued with 5 blank rounds for an exercise.
We only went "Bang" when those ran out; unless like me, you gave those 5 to some keen young pup so you didnt have as much trouble cleaning the damn SA80 afterwards :rolleyes:

:lol: Yea I know what you mean ;)

Which leads me on to the other freaking problem of the guns jamming. I swear to God, no word of a lie, my SA80 jammed no less than 15 times in a 4 hour exercise. The cause? Rain :dry:

And yes, I had stripped it and cleaned it prior to this :rolleyes:

I cant remember getting through an APWT without the bloody thing jamming at least twice :dry:

If its dry, the dust jams it; if its wet, the damp... no win situation.

I'd still rate the SLR over the SA80.. including the "New and Improved", which appeared to have no effect on any of the problems for me :rolleyes:

If they wanted that caliber, they should have just chose one of the many acceptable Rifles to buy "Off the Shelf" and saved a few Million in wasted Design and Manufacturing costs. :ph34r:

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Originally Posted by Rat Faced

If they wanted that caliber, they should have just chose one of the many acceptable Rifles to buy "Off the Shelf" and saved a few Million in wasted Design and Manufacturing costs. :ph34r:

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Indeed.

Never had a problem with the GPMG either... but they were always reluctant to let that one out... hang on a minute... we only had one! that may be why :lol:

We were spoilt then... 1 per Troop and another for the CP.

Mind, in the Artillery no one wants to carry that bloody thing, maybe thats why :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey I was in Artillery too, what were you using? AS90? MLRS? I was handling the FSC (Rapier) - Nice bit of kit ;)

Started on 105mm, then FH80 and ended up on MLRS...

Kept changing our damn equipment :lol:

MLRS looks good. If I wasn't using the Rapier, I would have wanted to join a unit using that :)

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Originally Posted by Samurai

Which leads me on to the other freaking problem of the guns jamming. I swear to God, no word of a lie, my SA80 jammed no less than 15 times in a 4 hour exercise. The cause? Rain :dry:

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well this administration has come up with a solution :(

http://www.nigelhumour.co.uk/M16.jpg