Religion

Do you think it is a good or a bad thing that religion has such a prominent

role in society (From anywhere). I need some opinions about this for a class,

so what do you think, anything would be appreciated.

Religion is the cause of all wars and is best not discussed.

any religion and society.

Although I don't abide by a religion, I think it serves a definite societal purpose. Really doesn't matter which religion you chose or the time period.

Life is hard and people fear death. All religions were created for the exact same purpose. Religion is a made up set of rules that help give hope to the hopeless and keep people in check by holding them accountable for their actions.

I couldn't imagine a world filled with people with no belief in a better existence after death and no eternal punishment for selfish behavior. It would be sheer anarchy.

Religions were fine in their isolated communities. The problems arose when religions of different cultures clashed. Since there is no compromise when it comes to the word of God, conflict ensued and will continue to do so.

religion sucks so does not believing. god doesn't exist...

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Originally Posted by JPaul

No it isn't.

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It is part of it. Well for most of wars that seems to happend anyways..

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Originally Posted by JPaul

No it isn't.

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You are correct, religion is not the cause of ALL wars. Just the absolutely pointless ones.

As we all know, my belief that a pink unicorn is God is a delusion, but somehow the faith of many more makes this less a manifestation of mental illness.

Why does the psychiatric field make "organized religion" a special exception when defining mental illness? The only difference is the number of people adhering to a belief. It, rather ridiculously, has nothing to do with proof, whatsoever. Hmmmm.

One delusion in conflict with another. Let us consider the number of people brought up as Muslim from birth who are now devote Catholics, and those who were raised, since birth, as Catholics, who are devote Muslims.

Is it less than 1/10th of 1 percent? Why? Is one right and the other wrong? No, it is all about brainwashing our babies. So clear, so simple, so obvious.

As for some wars, some wars are started for solely material desires.

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Originally Posted by TheDave

religion sucks so does not believing. god doesn't exist...

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fuck you,read over avatar:dry:





















o wait a minute:shifty:

here we go again :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Could you explain what that means, I genuinely have no idea.

What is a pointless war, as a opposed to a war with a point.

I find your comment strange, well totally incomprehensible actually.

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A pointless war is one fought over fairytales. I attempt to conquer you because I believe in unicorns and you believe in giant tortoises. Neither exist, of course. So we fight to the death over absolutely nothing.

A war with a point is one in which one side is attempting to secure money, resources, power. These are tangible things, things of value in our material world.

Quite simple, really.

how about a war because he doesn't believe the unicorn is the tortoises son but you do.

In the history of the human race
Of all the inspirations for the separation of man from his true tribal culture
Of all the inspirations for the acts of violence from one man onto another
From one nation onto another, from one oppressor onto the oppressed
There is no more guilty party and inspiration than those books known
As the Holy Bible, the Koran, and the Bagavad Gita to spread separation of mankind

The Bible is bullshit, the Koran is a lie
The Bagavad Gita did not fall from the sky
These are the books that were written by men
They've caused wars, now follow if you can

They took away our love and gave us fear
Tried to make us hate the one who put us here
Then they took our sacred songs and made them wrong
Then they took away our prayers and gave us theirs

The Bible is bullshit, the Koran is a lie
The Bagavad Gita did not fall from the sky
These are the books that are written by men
They've caused wars, now follow if you can

First they created sin so they could win
Then they built the cages they could put us in
Then they took away our tribes and gave us jail
Then they took away the Earth and gave us hell

The Bible is bullshit, the Koran is a lie
The Bagavad Gita did not fall from the sky
These are the books that are written by men
They've caused wars, now follow if you can

It's time for you to love one another
It's time for you to recognize your brother
It's time for us to stop killing our mother
It's time for us to care for each other

The Bible is bullshit

:01:

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Originally Posted by hobbes

Religion is a made up set of rules that help give hope to the hopeless and keep people in check by holding them accountable for their actions.

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Well, it doesn't seem to be working too well.

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Originally Posted by hobbes

Although I don't abide by a religion, I think it serves a definite societal purpose. Really doesn't matter which religion you chose or the time period.

Life is hard and people fear death. All religions were created for the exact same purpose. Religion is a made up set of rules that help give hope to the hopeless and keep people in check by holding them accountable for their actions.

I couldn't imagine a world filled with people with no belief in a better existence after death and no eternal punishment for selfish behavior. It would be sheer anarchy.

Religions were fine in their isolated communities. The problems arose when religions of different cultures clashed. Since there is no compromise when it comes to the word of God, conflict ensued and will continue to do so.

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Originally Posted by hobbes

A pointless war is one fought over fairytales. I attempt to conquer you because I believe in unicorns and you believe in giant tortoises. Neither exist, of course. So we fight to the death over absolutely nothing.

A war with a point is one in which one side is attempting to secure money, resources, power. These are tangible things, things of value in our material world.

Quite simple, really.

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Great posts hobscotch!!!! ;) Very logical.

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So wars to steal property have a point, whereas wars over ideology, or wars to free oppressed people are pointless.

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i agree, well apart from the oppressed people but that doesn't happen

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Anyone who thinks this is anything other than hypothetical is wrong

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Name three.

Edit: Make that 2

http://www.texascoffeetraders.com/travandturtle.jpg

This is where I'd write something if I wasn't lying at death's door.

:shuriken:

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Originally Posted by JPaul

So wars to steal property have a point, whereas wars over ideology, or wars to free oppressed people are pointless.

Let me suggest that a country A is torturing and murdering a section of it's citizens. Country B decides that this is totally unacceptable and decides to do something about it. They invade that country and depose it's regime. They then ensure that another government is put in place, assisting in this being done but keeping interference to a minimum. They then leave, with no tangible gain, in fact it has cost them a lot of assets to do it.

Anyone who thinks this is anything other than hypothetical is wrong.

Using your definition "A war with a point is one in which one side is attempting to secure money, resources, power. These are tangible things, things of value in our material world." that war was pointless. I disagree, however as is patently (and increasingly) obvious we are more different than we are similar. I am sure this is a source of never-ending joy to you.

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Putting smiles on millions of faces is both real and tangible. You can see them and you can hear gratitude from the mouths that wear them.

I described a war as "having a point" which has NOTHING to do with justification for said war. People are greedy, people can be kind. Both have a point.

Why would our difference of opinion be a great source of joy to me? I cannot imagine how? You believe you are going to Heaven and I am stuck with my mortal coil. Why would I not want to jump on your ship and sail towards the blue horizon? Although I cannot explain our existence here, no organized religion is even in my differential as an appropriate explanation. Religions are created by men, for men.

A how are we so different? I imagine that we both pretty much live by the concepts taught in the 10 Commandments. You just believe God wrote/inspred them, and I believe man did. So we have a petty little argument over the author, but still abide by the same rules of conduct. You are such a melodramatic old lady sometimes.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Did that cock throw up twice, or three times.

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It took all night but mine did it three times.

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Originally Posted by Busyman

It took all night but mine did it three times.

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Sore palm? :unsure:

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Originally Posted by hobbes

Putting smiles on millions of faces is both real and tangible...

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ead-iraqi2.jpg

Apologies for taking your comment out of context, but it reminded me of this image.
I can't help but think that the smiling face in this picture symbolizes the triumph of one religion over another.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

I have never seen a "point" abandoned so readily. Or at least modified to suit.

Did that cock crow twice, or three times.

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My points are perfectly consistent logically and quite clear. Your reply is honestly incomprehensible to me. How did I abandon anything? Quite the contrary, I graciously explained to you how to generalize a concept. I guess this is difficult for you. Each post is a truncated version of our full meaning, just to save time.

The bottom line is that you took umbrage at my attack on religion and since you had no rebuttal for my comment that wars based on religion are pointless, you chose to speciously distort the meaning of a "point" in the second part of the post.

Quite transparent really. I mean come on man, my post was there for 4 days and you didn't touch. The only reason you attempted to chop at it was because BM revived the thread and supported my position. I mean 4 days, you can do better than that.

And again, how are we so different, didn't see your clarification on this point. Makes that statement sound like sheer dramatics.

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Originally Posted by DanB

Sore palm? :unsure:

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No stupid.....sore cock. :lol: :lol:

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Originally Posted by Sid Hartha

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ead-iraqi2.jpg

Apologies for taking your comment out of context, but it reminded me of this image.
I can't help but think that the smiling face in this picture symbolizes the triumph of one religion over another.

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:no:

that isn't really anything to do with religion. it's psy-ops experiments, don't know what they wanted to achieve though

This whole thread is just a giant intellectual argument. It is hilarious how you guys are throwing insults back and forth, and some haven't even realized it because they are not contained in "your mom jokes" or "Dood U suck a mom". Obviously nobody who has posted in this thread so far believes in, or strictly follows any sort of a religion. You guys need to realize that you all share similiarities with your opinions, and stop trying to contradict each other.

As for that picture, I have no idea why someone put that picture there, but it is quite disturbing.

And as for my opinion, I dont think there is any really war that didnt have to do with some sort of clash between a religion or group of beliefs.

EDIT: And whoever posted that picture of the turtle, may I ask you to please get rid of it? It is breaking the tables for the thread, and making everything unorganized and hard to read. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by orcutt989

This whole thread is just a giant intellectual argument. It is hilarious how you guys are throwing insults back and forth, and some haven't even realized it because they are not contained in "your mom jokes" or "Dood U suck a mom". Obviously nobody who has posted in this thread so far believes in, or strictly follows any sort of a religion.

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Otherwise we'd be perfect robots. :blink:

Couldn't it be that everyone hasn't voiced their religious beliefs? :huh:

Im also sure that at least 4 members that have voted on this thread have very strong Religious Beliefs.

And they aren't all similar.. while i'd agree that Christianity, Islam and Juedism are, in there fundamental beliefs, they arent the only three. They just happen to have the same roots.

They have nothing to very little in common with Buddism, Shintoism, Hinduism or many, many others.

And i thought i showed my ignorance on occasion :P

i heard faithless - mass destruction yesterday for the zillionth time and only then realised it was preaching. errr, some religion

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Originally Posted by JPaul

hobbes

Your original position, as explained in your own words, was that war was pointless unless it was for material gain. That makes our views very different.

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Actually, that is completely incorrect.

I stated that wars fought in the name of God were pointless. Pointless because God simply doesn't exist as presented by the various religions. For one group to kill another in the name of their God or on behalf of their God is pointless.

Other wars, at least have some Earth related, particularly material, point.

So when you twist the words from:

"Wars based on religion are pointless", to "war is pointless unless it is for material gain", then you have corrupted the original.

I said that all religious wars werepointless, point blank.

I did not say that all wars were pointless, if they were not after material gains. I offered wars of this nature as examples of a war which have a point. I used the word "point" because it is neutral. It neither approves nor disapproves of the motivation.

As to freeing enslaved people, that certainly has a very real effect on how people spend their days on this Earth. That would be another example of a war with a point. I consider this a philosophical war. A war that attempts to defend the individual freedoms that we feel all humans should possess. Certainly, if we were the ones in shackles, we would hope those who were free would come to save us.

All wars based on conflicting views about God are pointless. At least other wars based in material goals have a point.

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Originally Posted by hobbes

All wars based on conflicting views about God are pointless. At least other wars based in material goals have a point.

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Can I just ask what wars have been conducted because of differing views on god?

I only learnt about the major wars (WWI and WWII, Vietnam & Gulf Wars) at school so I'd be genuinly interested to learn about wars fought solely in the name of god.

I know the Lilliputians went to war with the Island of Blefuscu over how to break eggs open but as they are both fictional empires I think we can discount them...

i think religion is used as an excuse. like the war on terror is "good vs evil" rather than our way versus their way, which is predominantly christians versus muslims

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Originally Posted by JPaul

This is what you stated. I twisted nothing.

"A war with a point is one in which one side is attempting to secure money, resources, power. These are tangible things, things of value in our material world."

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Where did I say that wars for other reasons could not have a point? where did I say that there were no exceptions to wars for material needs? Right, never. So how can you state that I said "war was pointless unless it was for material gain"? I never said that.

I said wars for material needs have a point, fighting over a man made God has no point.

It is really that simple. You have twisted my words.

That is really immaterial too me though. The only "point", I wish to make is that wars motivated by a belief in a man-made God are pointless.

You asked initially what a war with a point was. I provided an example, material gain.

And I graciously explained why I though religious wars were pointless.

If I believe in a unicorn and you believe in a cabbage, and I kill your followers in the name of the unicorn. You are all dead, and the unicorn still doesn't exist.

If I think you have neat toys and I kill your for you toys, I at least have twice as many toys and enjoy life twice as much, even though your dead.

Apologies that this is a few hours late

Happy Yule to everyone

Solstice

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

Can I just ask what wars have been conducted because of differing views on god?

I only learnt about the major wars (WWI and WWII, Vietnam & Gulf Wars) at school so I'd be genuinly interested to learn about wars fought solely in the name of god.

I know the Lilliputians went to war with the Island of Blefuscu over how to break eggs open but as they are both fictional empires I think we can discount them...

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Certainly you can ask.

I have, in this thread, attempted to simplify the subject or reduce it to it's simplest elements and not publish a thesis on the history of religion and war. As DAve mentioned, many wars are political or personally ambitious and dressed up as a "religious crusades".

It really doesn't have to boil down to a formal war, we can just think about conflict. God is an invention that was intended to create inner peace, a portal of salvation. Ironically, when we mix people of varying religions, the different requirements of the particular religions cause conflict. Conflict is the anti-thesis of what religion was intented for.

The problem is that no religion truly voices the will of God, and when viewpoints contradict, there is no middle ground.

Certainly you can think of situations in which religion has caused strife in this world.

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That conflict, which has raged for 21 years, taken more than a million lives and displaced five million southern Sudanese, erupted when the mostly Christian, black-Africans in Southern Sudan took up arms to seek independence from the Arab-dominated government in Khartoum. The denial of access to education, jobs, and political power based on the racial and religious composition of Southern Sudan, reveals the brutally racist nature of the Khartoum government.

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Here is a nice example. I'm sure it is not perfect, as there are both racial and religious elements. Just Google genocide in the Sudan.


Addendum: I found this link:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/curr_war.htm


Look at Uganda in the yellow chart. I am not vouching nor supporting this site. Just what I found when I Googled.

Thanks for the response Hobbes.

My opinion sides with your own and Swift in Gulliver's Travels*, that conflict in the name of religion is ridiculous. I still think that religion is very important in the world but the things done in its name are truly tragic and very wrong.



*I've been writing an essay on Jonathan Swift all day today so you'll have to forgive my name-dropping.

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

...but the things done in its name are truly tragic and very wrong.

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This could be a little more discriminating, 'cheese, but nevermind, I know you know what I mean. :)

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Originally Posted by j2k4

This could be a little more discriminating, 'cheese, but nevermind, I know you know what I mean. :)

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I'm not sure I do, though looking back on my post it is poorly worded.

My post wasn't intended to be discriminating, just my own belief that the things people do in the name of religion that cause others suffering are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

I'm not sure I do, though looking back on my post it is poorly worded.

My post wasn't intended to be discriminating, just my own belief that the things people do in the name of religion that cause others suffering are wrong.

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Delete "the"; insert "some", maybe?

Just pluck a few hairs from that broad brush?

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Originally Posted by j2k4

Delete "the"; insert "some", maybe?

Just pluck a few hairs from that broad brush?

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Point taken.

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Let me make my point in simple terms. The argument that all wars are based on religious differences is at best trite.

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No one said all wars were but er..great point? :huh:

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Originally Posted by JPaul

Let me make my point in simple terms. The argument that all wars are based on religious differences is at best trite. It is one of those things which has become part of conventional wisdom and is regularly trotted out by your Uncle Nobhead at family gatherings, when the conversation lowers to a dull rumble. The same person will also tell you that the rain forests are the "worlds lungs" and that we would die withing 15 minutes if they were taken away. They believe it because it has been repeated often enough by others of their ilk, so it must be true.

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Yes, I understand your irritation. It is akin to our unofficial forum motto: post anything and everything that is against America and/or Americans and have a sneer or giggle.

Then again, that is an issue completely separate from what I have been talking about.