what's wrong here?

Sorry to those outside the USA, but this story brought home something close to my heart.....

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'Frank the Tumor' biopsy will be free

Mother had sought online help to defray medical costs

Tuesday, January 18, 2005 Posted: 10:27 AM EST (1527 GMT)

story.franktumor.ap.jpg
David Dingman-Grover stands with his mother, Tiffini Dingman-Grover, who sold bumper stickers to cover medical expenses.


HEALTH LIBRARY
Mayo Clinic
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RICHMOND, Virginia (AP) -- A 9-year-old boy whose mother launched an online auction to help pay for a biopsy on her son's tumor will have the procedure done for free, his mother said Monday.

Dr. Hrayr Shahinian of the Skull Base Institute at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center agreed to perform the biopsy free of charge on the tumor young David Dingman-Grover named "Frank," said Frank Groff, spokesman for the Los Angeles institute.

David's parents had been auctioning off a bumper sticker reading "Frank Must Die" on eBay to raise money for the procedure.

"We have been so blessed," said David's mother, Tiffini Dingman-Grover, of Sterling.

David named the tumor at the base of his skull after Frankenstein, who used to scare him until he dressed up as the monster for Halloween.

The little boy was diagnosed in May 2003 with a grapefruit-sized malignant tumor called a rhabdomyosarcoma. The size and location of the tumor -- most are in the limbs -- made it impossible for doctors to take out, Dingman-Grover said.

Chemotherapy shrank it to the size of a peach pit, but David needs a specialized biopsy to determine whether the tumor is still cancerous, his mother and doctor said.

David's biopsy is scheduled for February 2. The family still has to help pay for the anesthesiologist and other hospital fees, but the $40,000 in private donations they've received since the case caught the public's attention earlier this month will be sufficient, Dingman-Grover said.

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how can anyone say we have no problems when a parent has to ask for donations to pay for such a thing ?
It does make me proud of those that donated...it shows that people do care, however shouldn't we as a civilised nation look after our fellow countrymen so that they don't have to rely on the generousity of a few? :(


source

NHS pwns

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Originally Posted by TheDave

NHS pwns

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You know that the US Government spends twice as much per person on Health Care as the UK (as a % of GPD, so its more like 6X in actual $$ )... and they STILL have to pay for it or buy extortionate insurance cover..

Land of the Free (to starve or die without interference from the State)

:whistling

One of my big complaints about the US is the state of health care. Health care should absolutely be available to everyone, regardless of finances. Medicines too. For such an "evolved" country, me thinks we are quite behind the times.

Vidcc

Is this really the case?

I understand the situation regarding health insurance vs free health care and that this varies from country to country but I cannot believe a country as rich as the US does not provide free health care for its children. This is insane - provide sound health care for the young and you have a healthier adult population.

The NHS has its faults but I am glad it is there.

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Originally Posted by Biggles

Vidcc

Is this really the case?

I understand the situation regarding health insurance vs free health care and that this varies from country to country but I cannot believe a country as rich as the US does not provide free health care for its children. This is insane - provide sound health care for the young and you have a healthier adult population.

The NHS has its faults but I am glad it is there.

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There are many variables in the USA. Not everyone qualifies for everything and not everything is covered with every health plan.


perhaps this will make you think :(

Not only that...low-income people that can get state-aid still require approvals on many things..be it types of medicines, specialists, etc. It is very difficult to get help here. Even people with regular insurance have difficulties. It is a sad state of affairs.

Touching story, god bless Canada.

The system just does not work.

The middle-class is paying the burden for the poor who get their care free. The money sucked out by the poor, is paid for by the middle class private insurance holders who must pay insane premiums.

If you are 35 with no health issues and you decide to save the 500 dollars a month for private coverage and you get sick, you will need to pay premium rates for everything AND you will be uninsurable in the future because of your pre-existing medical condition.

We now have a wonderful group of people in the country who are rich enough to be poor.

We have one board member, trying to pay off $40,000 for a heart attack. He is being hounded for every nickel because he has a job and a means to continue payment. That stress has got do wonders for his condition.

Were he a homeless bum, the hospital would just write it off.

Medications are another big concern, but the excessive courting of medical professionals by drug company representatives has really come under much tighter screws over the last 10 years, which is a step in the right direction. They basically were buying loyalty from doctors by giving them vacations, lavish steak dinners and other such perks. That is a no-no now.

Compare this flap about gay marriage in the last election to the relative silence about a serious major problem this country is about to face.

That is politics. :sick:

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Originally Posted by hobbes

Medications are another big concern, but the excessive courting of medical professionals by drug company representatives has really come under much tighter screws over the last 10 years, which is a step in the right direction. They basically were buying loyalty from doctors by giving them vacations, lavish steak dinners and other such perks. That is a no-no now.

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What we need to do now is stop the politicians from being "wined and dined" by the drug companies :dry:

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Originally Posted by vidcc

What we need to do now is stop the politicians from being "wined and dined" by the drug companies :dry:

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My opinion exactly. Stop voting for the ones that are getting their pockets lined by the large drug companies. I did. But don't stop there. Write them and tell them exactly why you are not voting for them. :P

And what about the billions the drug companies are spending for advertising? All it does is up the already high costs of drugs in this country.

The Doctors still get plenty from the drug companies. Zillions of samples to help them push their brand of drugs.

:blushing: I could go on and on about healthcare.........and the large drug companies.

Hobbes, I wish there were some way to start a fund on this forum for this gentleman you spoke of with the large medical bills. Any ideas?

Did those who donated get their money back? :unsure:

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Originally Posted by Everose

Hobbes, I wish there were some way to start a fund on this forum for this gentleman you spoke of with the large medical bills. Any ideas?[/COLOR]

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I don't think he would hear of it, but would appreciate the thought.

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Originally Posted by vidcc

What we need to do now is stop the politicians from being "wined and dined" by the drug companies :dry:

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Let me give you a quote from Shawshank Redemption:

Red:"The Ladies have taken a liking to you Andy"

Andy: "I don't suppose it would help if I told them that I wasn't a homosexual."

Red: "Their not homosexual either, Andy. You have to be human first."

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Originally Posted by Everose

, I wish there were some way to start a fund on this forum for this gentleman you spoke of with the large medical bills. Any ideas?

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Oddly enough he states quite plainly that he would rather have that debt than a social healthcare system that would have covered him.....
:(

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Originally Posted by vidcc

Oddly enough he states quite plainly that he would rather have that debt than a social healthcare system that would have covered him.....
:(

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That says quite a bit. :unsure: What are the down sides of a social healthcare system?

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Originally Posted by Everose

That says quite a bit. :unsure: What are the down sides of a social healthcare system?

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there doesn't have to be any downsides, but when in a debate about the two systems someone always says "well canada has a social system and this happens"...etc.
They always assume that an american system would operate the same way instead of looking at how it could be done differently
:no:

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Originally Posted by vidcc

there doesn't have to be any downsides, but when in a debate about the two systems someone always says "well canada has a social system and this happens"...etc.
They always assume that an american system would operate the same way instead of looking at how it could be done differently
:no:

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Sounds like we are already spending the money now to be able to do it twice as well... ... ...

But ........such as the Canada Healthcare System.. ... ... there must be downsides? Is it all in the slow process in crisis situations? Is that a factor of concern or not? Or does it normally work very well in crisis situations? Are you able to see a specialist if YOU feel it necessary?

Where I live, when someone becomes ill, and the bills reach outer space, people tend to get together and throw a benefit at one of the bar/clubs. The local bands volunteer to play, and the money made that night is given to the family. It's a good thing to do, and there have been countless benefits around here. Perhaps that is an option? Nothing wrong with accepting help and love from one's community.

When you have a political system like you have in the US where you have to have a great deal of money to get elected, you will always get corruption. l saw on the news the other night, at Bush's innauguration, the parties thrown by big business. $42m spent wining and dining politicians by corporations seeking favour. It seems from an outsider that the American way of doing everything involves money and graft, which is why you can spend so much more on health care than any other country and yet get so little in return.

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Originally Posted by hobbes

The system just does not work.



If you are 35 with no health issues and you decide to save the 500 dollars a month for private coverage and you get sick, you will need to pay premium rates for everything AND you will be uninsurable in the future because of your pre-existing medical condition.

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:huh: $500 per month for a single person? Whoa, I thought $140 per month for a family was getting a bit steep.(Australian dollars, I think we are about 70 cents US to an AU $ atm.) We are subsidised by the government, but I can't remember by how much. $140 is what I pay each month. That gives us cover for pretty much everything except prescriptions. I can even buy my kids a pair of runners and take the receipt to my healthcare provider and get the money back for them because they are sports/health related. I think we get about $500 per year for that. It can be used to cover gaps between the fund and what the doctor in a hospital charges too. You can avoid gap charges by going to certain doctors who subscribe to your particular fund.

For normal gp visits we are covered by the National system and have to pay a small gap charge. Low income families are bulk billed and don't pay anything at all. They also get very cheap prescriptions.

I didn't have private health insurance when my last 3 kids were born. I received excellent treatment in small country hospitals and it didn't cost me a cent.

The government system provides for everyone but you may have to wait a long time for 'elective' surgery. That's why I have private cover, my kids like to live dangerously and if they need to be mended I don't want them suffering for 18 months before they get surgery.

We have a lot of functions here for people who need treatment too, but it's more often to raise the money to send them for specialist treatment i.e. plane fares, accomodation for the family, or to keep the families going during the crisis rather than to pay the medical bills.

The main benefit for Americans in a National Health Service is this:

The cost of Private Medicine comes down astronomically.

They are competing with a free service, and as such they cant just charge what the hell they want to. This reduces the costs of private Medical Insurance.

The UK is a much more expensive place to live than the US in general, however if i wanted Private Medical Insurance i'd be paying a fraction of the cost that someone in the US is.

Just because you have a free National Health system, does not mean that you cannot have Private Health care too. The public system has to prioritise treatments, which means that elective treatments have to wait in line.

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Originally Posted by Everose

Sounds like we are already spending the money now to be able to do it twice as well... ... ...

But ........such as the Canada Healthcare System.. ... ... there must be downsides? Is it all in the slow process in crisis situations? Is that a factor of concern or not? Or does it normally work very well in crisis situations? Are you able to see a specialist if YOU feel it necessary?

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My point rose is that opponents always take the downsides from other systems as a reason to say it doesn't work instead of looking at the failings and saying "we could change that".... Canada for example doesn't allow private healthcare...Britain does.
Opponents suggest it would lead to healthcare rationing...but we already have that based on ability to pay...social systems DO NOT ration essential treatment.
The main downfall i see in social systems is they are bogged down in red tape.

The USA could never nationalise the hospitals etc....it could however set up a first rate national insurance scheme and we could have all the benefits of our private hospitals with every person in the land with 100% coverage for essential healthcare.
Elective treatments such as cosmetic surgery would not be covered and the government bulk buying power would keep costs in check. (assuming they start respecting our tax dollars and make sure they get value for money)
Cosmetic surgery for genuine health reasons would be covered

Edit:
i often hear the arguement that it is wrong to make someone "pay for others"...thing is, even with private health insurance you already are...you are subsidising those in your scheme that need expensive treatment that costs more than they put in.
Bush made the biggest mistruth statement when he said "it means government deciding on your treatment"...and that was just on allowing citizens to buy into "blue cross"...but in social systems it's the doctor that decides on the treatment.

I could go on and on about what I think of healthcare, but I don't feel the urge to write a book. I have carried health insurance since I have been working. The costs are relatively low, about $15 a week. I'm 90% covered. that used to be 100%, however there seems to be quite a few that run their children to the emergency room for every damn sniffle, or run themselves to the ER cause they have a runny nose. My costs seem to rise every year, yet I haven't been to the hospital in about 2 yrs. When you lable something as "free" you'll always have too many people who abuse the system.
I don't know what to think for sure about Canada's health system... I have a good friend who seems to have waited months to have her knee taken care of, if she ever even made it there yet. Even though I would have to pay some of the costs, if it were me, I would have been through rehab and running already.

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Originally Posted by RPerry

I could go on and on about what I think of healthcare, but I don't feel the urge to write a book. I have carried health insurance since I have been working. The costs are relatively low, about $15 a week. I'm 90% covered. that used to be 100%, however there seems to be quite a few that run their children to the emergency room for every damn sniffle, or run themselves to the ER cause they have a runny nose. My costs seem to rise every year, yet I haven't been to the hospital in about 2 yrs. When you lable something as "free" you'll always have too many people who abuse the system.
I don't know what to think for sure about Canada's health system... I have a good friend who seems to have waited months to have her knee taken care of, if she ever even made it there yet. Even though I would have to pay some of the costs, if it were me, I would have been through rehab and running already.

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you seem to be lucky enough to work for a company with a health plan, how much does the company pay ?

You have done what i see many do in your example of your friend waiting.....just because that sometimes happens elsewhere doesn't follow that it would have to happen here.