"E-Sportsmen/women" -Cyber Athlete Professional

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4206117.stm

Golden boy gamer becomes a brand
By Jo Twist

Computer gaming has come a long way since the days of Pong.

Global gaming tournaments now offer thousands in prize money and pro-gamers are turning into "personalities" who can earn a healthy living.

Besides lucrative sponsorship deals, they can be brands in their own right, and "known" by millions of gamers.

Jonathan "Fatal1ty" Wendel is the "golden boy" star of first person shooter (FPS) games; he is known as the best PC gamer in the world.

"The only way to make a living is to be the best," he told the BBC News website in-between "shoot-outs" at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas earlier this month.

Gaming tournaments are getting big and are increasingly attracting more coverage on TV.

Fata1ty wants gaming to be treated as a sport, and pro-gamers to be known as "E-Sportsmen/women".

The 23-year-old is likely to be the "sport's" first western trail-blazing personality and all-rounder in more ways than one.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...tality203b.jpg
"For pro-gamers there are about 12 or 13 tournaments and you have a chance to make over $300,000 [£160,000] if you win them all."

He has earned a fan base around the globe, winning six CPL (Cyberathlete Professional League) championships, the only gamer ever to do so.

He is Doom 3's first ever world champion, according to the Twin Galaxies' Official Video Game and Pinball Book of World Records, the industry's official record book.

What's in a name

But he is also one gamer who is proving that winning the tournament is not the only way to make money out of what was once an activity berated by parents.

In January, Fata1ty signed a lucrative 12-year deal with Creative Labs to design peripherals and accessories for gamers.

The deal is not just about letting a company use his brand name. As a pro-gamer, he will be telling the company what gamers want and need.


Jonathan
I never leaned towards alcohol, or smoking, or drugs or anything - gaming was a great saver for me
Fatal1ty
This he already does in his other contract with Abit which makes Fatl1ty motherboards and video cards.

"There is a bunch of things I have learned from going to global LAN [local area network] parties," he says.

As with all sports, equipment is crucial to how a player performs, just like the latest racket or shoes.

But only in the last few years have PC manufacturers taken the demands of gamers seriously by offering PCs and products tailored specifically for them.

There are several "hassles" that Fatal1ty and other gamers have had to put up with in the past, like on-board sound static, and unnecessary parallel ports, and latency problems.

"Most products today are made by people who know the technology," he explains.

"There are engineers who are crazy about the next step in technology, but they forget about what the gamer really wants."

Because he takes part in so many tournaments each year, he says, he gets to see what works and what does not for gamers all over the world.

"I went to Taiwan to talk to the engineers and designers about what a gamer wants and doesn't want.

"Sometimes they overlook the smaller things that would make a big difference for a performance-savvy person."

Passionate, and hardcore gamers, are often willing to spend a lot of money on new graphics or sound cards when the latest, graphics-heavy, top title like Doom 3 comes out.

'Golden gamer'

But Fatal1ty's "brand" is also focused on shrugging off the image of gamers as socially inept and unfit.

This image has been evolving anyway as gamers get older, and as it becomes a larger accepted part of the mainstream leisure and entertainment industry.

But sport has never had a golden-boy mascot like Fatal1ty before.

Fatal1ty was - and still is - a keen and very able sportsman away from the keyboard.

Many of the growing army of female pro-gamers have been accomplished athletes in their day, and now seek another sport, says Fatl1ty.

Screenshot of Painkiller, Dreamcatcher
Painkiller is the next big-bucks game Fatal1ty has set his sights on
When he was growing up, gaming was a form of stress release. Tired of his parents or of his sporting exploits, he would unwind playing Quake for a few hours.

"I never leaned towards alcohol, or smoking, or drugs or anything - gaming was a great saver for me," he says.

And far from gaming turning him into a hermit, he talked to the whole world, says Fatal1ty, and learned new net skills in his mission to get better at the games.

The social side of LAN parties, where gamers gather physically with computer in tow, plug in, and play against each other, is crucial within the gaming community.

"Socialising online is awesome - you are talking to all these gamers just about random topics. It's like you are on the phone talking to a friend almost," he explains.

"Then you get to meet these guys at LAN parties.

"It's a total blast."

I saw a show on this kid about two years ago on...MTV maybe? He's pretty good.

I remember him saying he "trains" anywhere from 8-13 hours a day. :ohmy:

Video gaming is not athletic sport and should not be called such.

Define athletic sport.

Is curling athletic? golf? bowling? ping pong?


I reckon being the best in the gaming field requires an exceptional eye-to-hand coordination, and a lot of stamina.

Nice explanation snny, i guess with the evolving of sports,trends etc - maybe just maybe way in the future this could become an olympic sport. Walking to the toilet is for somepeople regarded as hardcore sports.
How long ago was it that snowboarding became olympic sport? and with the development of Extreme sports - freefalling, biking, rail grinding etc many things will follow.

(typing this post was actually quite mind and fingertip exhausting)

It's all bullshit. You know I know it. :dry:

how is it bullshit. its a competition, the best win

I play soccer and I'm not a gamer, therefore my point may be a bit biased.

When does a hobby become a sport. There has to be a line somewhere otherwise there will be a clamour for Philately to be an Olympic sport. I think Busy is right in that you definitely can't say that it's an athletic sport - there isn't anything particularly athletic about being good at SuperMarioLand. Maybe if you played for hours then you might get tired - but people get tired watching TV.

Speaking of watching TV, if gaming can be defined as a sport, that can be too - there is a modicum of effort involved in keeping your eyes open. If comprehension or endurance was the goal then competition could, technically, ensue. When I was a kid, I used to play guess the advert with my sister, the first one to shout out the brand name won a point.

Sure you can make gaming fit the definition of being a sport but you can for basically anything. It all gets a bit silly if you go down that road

i'm not saying its athletic. i'm saying it's a sport. it shouldn't be in the olympics though

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Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
A particular form of this activity.
An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
An active pastime; recreation.

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:ermm:

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Originally Posted by TheDave

how is it bullshit. its a competition, the best win

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RIF

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Video gaming is not athletic sport and should not be called such.

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:ermm:

Hide and Seek can be a mere sport but I wasn't addressing mere sport.

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Originally Posted by manker

I play soccer and I'm not a gamer, therefore my point may be a bit biased.

When does a hobby become a sport. There has to be a line somewhere otherwise there will be a clamour for Philately to be an Olympic sport. I think Busy is right in that you definitely can't say that it's an athletic sport - there isn't anything particularly athletic about being good at SuperMarioLand. Maybe if you played for hours then you might get tired - but people get tired watching TV.

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You might not exercise every muscle in your body, but have you sat through an eight hour session of Super mario brothers or something?

Not only does it take a lot of stamina to be able to retain your precision after having played the game through a couple of times, but it's also a strain on the muscles in your hands. And there are quite a few sports you could define as being athletic that only rely on select musclegroups in your body, and a high level of specialization.

I knew an "athlete" once that weighed easily three times as much as me, yet she competed at an advanced level with ball tossing or whatever it was. And I've seen ppl who chuck them spears, who have a right arm 1.5 times bulkier than the left.

I'm not saying it is an athletic sport, as much as I'm asking how you can say that any sport is athletic.

It's all about competing and using your body to accomplish something. If you think, like busy seems to do, that athletic sports are somehow better then I want to know why.

At any rate I'd rather participate in a sport that relies as much on your mind as it does on your body, and I think that's what videogaming does.

Busy and I have already had this argument over what is a sport. I had asked if anyone thought that poker was a sport and we had the same argument.

If a sport is classified as something that is physical and requires stamina and skill then shouldn’t having sex be in the same group?

Hope you don't mind me breaking it down a little, it's just that you mentioned so much.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

You might not exercise every muscle in your body, but have you sat through an eight hour session of Super mario brothers or something?

Not only does it take a lot of stamina to be able to retain your precision after having played the game through a couple of times, but it's also a strain on the muscles in your hands.

I've never played a game constantly for more than an hour - unless you count football managing games. Which are probably a bit different. I do agree that it would be taxing physically but then thumb wrestling would be too.

And there are quite a few sports you could define as being athletic that only rely on select musclegroups in your body, and a high level of specialization.

I knew an "athlete" once that weighed easily three times as much as me, yet she competed at an advanced level with ball tossing or whatever it was. And I've seen ppl who chuck them spears, who have a right arm 1.5 times bulkier than the left.


Granted some games that are accepted as sports can also be put in the same catagory as gaming, like darts or crown green bowling - shot putting and javelin aren't because they are explosive sports which require maximum muscle effort coupled with technique. While the actual throwing is only done with one arm, the rest of the body is used too.


I'm not saying it is an athletic sport, as much as I'm asking how you can say that any sport is athletic.

It's about conditioning. A gamer can be a 7 stone weakling or a 35 stone couch potato. An athletic sportsman has had to condition his/her whole body to be able to perform even completently. In actual fact javelin throwers and shotputters aren't that uneven, or at least they shouldn't be because their weaker arm is vital for balance, momentum and exertion.

It's all about competing and using your body to accomplish something. If you think, like busy seems to do, that athletic sports are somehow better then I want to know why.

I think athletic sports are better in so much as they're healthier, both from a social point of view and because I think running around in the open air a few times a week is good for you.

I was going to be diplomatic and say that I didn't consider one better than the other but that's just not true. In a few years I'd be much prouder if my son was playing centre forward for the school rather than if he was the best Counter Striker in form four :confused:

At any rate I'd rather participate in a sport that relies as much on your mind as it does on your body, and I think that's what videogaming does.

So does athletic sport. Especially team games such as Soccer and Rugby, for example. The best soccer players when at their peak are only set apart by their minds. At the top level, apart from the obvious pace exception, physical conditioning is very much a level playing field so technique and mental quickness is far more important. You can take 34 y/o Alan Shearer as an example of how important the mental aspect is, he is still one of the top 5 strikers in the Premiership (/me spits) yet the defenders he is up against are faster, fitter and stronger than him yet he still manages to score in almost every match - football is a very cerebral game.

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As I say, the above is only my POV. I love sport and I can't play a game on the PC, save solitaire, for love nor money. The little man just doesn't run in the right places when I want him to :(

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Originally Posted by BigBank_Hank

If a sport is classified as something that is physical and requires stamina and skill then shouldn’t having sex be in the same group?

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In general I don't have a lot of group sex, so I'm not competing against anyone. Therefore sex isn't a sport.

Maybe if the girl has an annoying habit of rating your performance against her ex b/fs it would become a kind of competition, are you going down that road, Hank? ;)

No Manker I think you may have misunderstood what I was implying. The competition part comes in when we play who can erm.. climax first, if I do guess what? I’ve won :D :smoke:

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Granted some games that are accepted as sports can also be put in the same catagory as gaming, like darts or crown green bowling - shot putting and javelin aren't because they are explosive sports which require maximum muscle effort coupled with technique. While the actual throwing is only done with one arm, the rest of the body is used too.

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Playing videogames [SMB style] doesn't entail explosive usage of your muscles, apart from when it comes to the muscles that manipulate your thumbs, or whatever it may be. :lol:

But you still use your entire body, and I have to say that to remain static for hours and hours, keeping focus on the screen isn't the easiest thing either, it isn't like watching tv, as you have to remain active in a different way.

You do, however, use the muscles in your body, and it does provide a form of cardiovascular workout, once you get the adrenaline pumping.

To be able to perform well under extended periods of time requires that you have a certain measure of physical conditioning. Tho', it isn't about being explosive, but rather about being able to remain static and focused on a single task.

I think it does require you to have a lot more stamina than, for example, a bowler.

A gamer can have any possible form a human can have, but a really good gamer has to be in good shape.

Running around in the open air is indeed good for you, but I don't think a sport has to be that good for you, really. It's supposed to be a mental and physical challenge, any health-oriented benefits are merely side-effects.

As for the social aspect of it, I have to say that playing games online allows you to have contact with people in faraway places, much as we are doing now, giving you access to much more people and points-of-view, which I feel is a good thing.

I always saw football, and similar games as being more oriented towards the physical than the mental. How to measure this I don't know tho'.

The ideal daughter or son would be good at both, I think.

I can watch any sport with at least a bit of interest in what's going on, even the silly american ones.

Watching someone play a computer game is beyond boring, especially if they're good at it. You might as well watch your computer play itself at UT2004 or Fifa or whatever else games these ubergeeks play.

So whilst it certainly isn't an athletic sport I don't even reckon it rates as a spectator sport.

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Originally Posted by Withcheese

I can watch any sport with at least a bit of interest in what's going on, even the silly american ones.

Watching someone play a computer game is beyond boring, especially if they're good at it. You might as well watch your computer play itself at UT2004 or Fifa or whatever else games these ubergeeks play.

So whilst it certainly isn't an athletic sport I don't even reckon it rates as a spectator sport.

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Another good point.

Sorry geeks you lose. Go back and watch The Wizard.

Snny what was your point? :blink:

Choice 1 . (life vs body)
vs
Choice 2 (life vs mind)
vs
Choice 3 (mind vs mind)
vs
Choice 5 (mind vs 0)

swimingp00l

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Originally Posted by Busyman

Another good point.

Sorry geeks you lose. Go back and watch The Wizard.

Snny what was your point? :blink:

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That what is, and what isn't an athletic sport is hard to define, and that if you accept one thing as a sport, then you might as well accept another.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

That what is, and what isn't an athletic sport is hard to define, and that if you accept one thing as a sport, then you might as well accept another.

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No it's easy to define what athletic sport is.

Mere sport can be anything from seeing who can watch TV the longest to who can pluck a paper football through a goal post at the lunch table. :dry:

Great, then you define it,

Is bowling an athletic sport? curling?

Where exactly do you draw the line?

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Great, then you define it,

Is bowling an athletic sport? curling?

Where exactly do you draw the line?

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Bowling...sure.

WTF is curling?

curling more curling

How come bowling is an athletic sport, when videogaming isn't? As I've tried to illustrate, you do use your body in both sports.

Does an athletic sport entail using your body in a certain manner, and if so what does slalom, fencing and bowling (if you accept them all as athletic) have in common that non-athletic sports like videogaming at a professional level doesn't have?

[n] an active diversion requiring physical exertion and competition
[n] the occupation of athletes who compete for pay
[n] verbal wit (often at another's expense but not to be taken seriously); "he became a figure of fun"
[n] (biology) an organism that has characteristics resulting from chromosomal alteration
[n] someone who engages in sports
[adj] (Maine colloquial) temporary summer resident in inland Maine
[v] play boisterously; "The children frolicked in the garden"; "the gamboling lambs in the meadows"; "The toddlers romped in the palyroom"
[v] wear or display in an ostentatious or proud manner; "she was sporting a new hat"
Lets not forget the Oz version:
[n] a generic term for a male friend, similar to mate, mainly used in rural areas. :)

@busy and manker: Then there is archery, which is considered by many to be an athletic sport. To be a successful archer you need to remain as static as possible with most of your body. Ideally only your arms should be moving as you aim and let loose the arrow.

If you happen to be playing a videogame with some kind of joystick/rudder combo, or maybe with a steering wheel with pedals, you are bound to be using not only your arms, but also your feet.

That has to make it more athletic than archery, hasn't it?



I once played a game similar to Manx TT in which you sat on a "motorcycle" and used your entire body to steer and manouver the bike around the track on the screen. What do you call a game like that? It can't be a motorsport, as there is no actual motorcycle present.

Last, although I hate to do this, I'm going to have to spring "dance dance revolution" on you. DDR is a game in which two players can compete in emulating dance moves on the screen or somesuch, the player who can keep up best with the instructions on the screen will win, and to be successful in this game you'll need to have muscles and stamina as you control it with your entire body. Example.

These examples fall under the definition video/computergames. And for someone to be world computergame champion or somesuch he'd have to be successful at all manners of games, wouldn't he? And to master it all, he'd definitely be an athlete.

As for it not being watchable, chebus, I don't think anyone told the million or so people in korea who watched the last c-strike-, or starcraft-, or whatever it was, championship live. :blink:

That is all.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

@busy and manker: Then there is archery, which is considered by many to be an athletic sport. To be a successful archer you need to remain as static as possible with most of your body. Ideally only your arms should be moving as you aim and let loose the arrow.

If you happen to be playing a videogame with some kind of joystick/rudder combo, or maybe with a steering wheel with pedals, you are bound to be using not only your arms, but also your feet.

That has to make it more athletic than archery, hasn't it?



I once played a game similar to Manx TT in which you sat on a "motorcycle" and used your entire body to steer and manouver the bike around the track on the screen. What do you call a game like that? It can't be a motorsport, as there is no actual motorcycle present.

Last, although I hate to do this, I'm going to have to spring "dance dance revolution" on you. DDR is a game in which two players can compete in emulating dance moves on the screen or somesuch, the player who can keep up best with the instructions on the screen will win, and to be successful in this game you'll need to have muscles and stamina as you control it with your entire body. Example.

These examples fall under the definition video/computergames. And for someone to be world computergame champion or somesuch he'd have to be successful at all manners of games, wouldn't he? And to master it all, he'd definitely be an athlete.

As for it not being watchable, chebus, I don't think anyone told the million or so people in korea who watched the last c-strike-, or starcraft-, or whatever it was, championship live. :blink:

That is all.

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You are fishing with the other shit but.....DDR is athletic, verrrrry athletic tbh.

Best example.

Hmm, so videogamers can be athletes then.

Fancy that.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Hmm, so videogamers can be athletes then.

Fancy that.

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Depending on the mechanics of the game.

Sorry to not getting involved myself (it's too much fun alone just watching this :lol: ) but this snippet got me thinking:

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Originally Posted by manker

I'm not saying it is an athletic sport, as much as I'm asking how you can say that any sport is athletic.

It's about conditioning. A gamer can be a 7 stone weakling or a 35 stone couch potato. An athletic sportsman has had to condition his/her whole body to be able to perform even completently. In actual fact javelin throwers and shotputters aren't that uneven, or at least they shouldn't be because their weaker arm is vital for balance, momentum and exertion.

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Just like it doesn't matter to an track & field athlete whether they have a degree in whatever or whether they're plain stupid? ;)

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Originally Posted by Illuminati

Sorry to not getting involved myself (it's too much fun alone just watching this :lol: ) but this snippet got me thinking:



Just like it doesn't matter to an track & field athlete whether they have a degree in whatever or whether they're plain stupid? ;)

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Well, it kinda does matter. For example the 1500 metres is about planning your race, what tactics you use, which line to take so that you don't get boxed in. If you're not compus mentus you won't win.

However, that may be true of the 100 metres where the fastest runner usually wins.

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So this DDR game requires the player to be athletic but that in no way means that gaming is athletic, it's a bit like saying that the goalie of the local football team is a right fat bastard, never trains, never moves quickly, only makes a save if the ball hits him and he gets someone else to kick the ball out - therefore soccer isn't athletic. One swallow doesn't make a summer, or something :huh:

Archery is definitely athletic. You won't see an out of shape archer at the Olympics, the effort and strain required to keep that bow bent is unbelievable. If the archer's body has a weak point then he won't be able to keep the bow stationary, so he's gotta be in tip-top condition.

Overall gaming isn't athetic in the slightest. I can accept the exceptions but that's all they are, exceptions. The gamers, on the other hand, can be athetic, that's down to the individual - but that won't be because of the gaming, it will be because they've done a bit of athletic sport.

Oh, are you still here?

I just argued the point for the hell of it. :P



Tho', I can't say I think it's easy to draw a line between what is, and what isn't athletic, since it's one big grey zone to me, when something is just being a bit of a strain and when it becomes a real athletic effort.

And I'll still say that the video/computergame champion of the world has to be an athlete, since some videogames are just like DDR, for example.

As for the archer, he doesn't really use his entire body in an athletic fashion, tho'. Just the muscles he needs to pull back the string.



Also, I daresay there are fat archers, and extremely thin ones as well, maybe not in the olympics, but they do exist. Like in any sport the strain isn't the same on all levels of competition.

EDit: Finally, I don't think you appreciate the level of strain it does put on your body when you do play something like CS or doom, people who work long hours using a mouse will get problems with the tendons and muscles in and around their mousearm, if they don't get time to regenerate, and that's common in banktellers and such.

Someone who plays games for a living, practicing six or eight hours a day do the same thing, but with much more violent movements.

If you do play at that level, your arm would better be in good shape, and the rest of your body would have to follow suit, to cope with the stress, if nothing else.

The strain you put on your body just by being fat isn't something you need when you have to play for week-long tournaments. I've seen professional players, and while they weren't the buffest of people, none of them was fat, nor did they look terribly out of shape in any other way.

Having said all that I don't much care what you call it, they'll still play, and make ridiculous amounts of money on something that doesn't really help anyone else, much like many professional athletes.

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Oh, are you still here?

I just argued the point for the hell of it.

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:D :lol:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

As for the archer, he doesn't really use his entire body in an athletic fashion, tho'. Just the muscles he needs to pull back the string.

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No, every sinew in his body is straining against each other so that he can keep himself stock still.


I do agree with a lot of your points, particularly about top level gamers having to be fairly fit. I seriously don't know anything about them, nor that people made money out of it! So I'd better defer to what you say.

However, I looked at my last post and realised something:

A sport is only an athletic sport if you can do it to get yourself physically fit.

There, a definition.

I may be excluding a lot of sports, including archery, with that but who cares. It works for me and I reckon it's a good 'un.

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Originally Posted by manker

No, every sinew in his body is straining against each other so that he can keep himself stock still.

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Ah sorry, I guess I didn't think of it that way. I apologize to any archers.

(Including my aunt, who used to compete, but never got past being thin as a reed. :P )

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A sport is only an athletic sport if you can do it to get yourself physically fit.

There, a definition.

I may be excluding a lot of sports, including archery, with that but who cares. It works for me and I reckon it's a good 'un.

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That is a good definition, it might not be entirely correct, but I definitely understand what you are after. :)

Whenever I see interviews with cs-gamers and similar they advocate taking walks, at least, or doing more straining stuff if they are serious about it. They seem to need additional training to keep up with what they do.

Not sure that's required with archery, althought it would certainly help.

................so in conclusion...video gaming ain't athletic. :shifty:

Unless it's DDR. :P

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Originally Posted by SnnY

Unless it's DDR. :P

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Agreed!!! ;)

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Originally Posted by manker

A sport is only an athletic sport if you can do it to get yourself physically fit.

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So if your only physically strenous activity is Sex - can it then be regarded as a sport?
:blink:

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Originally Posted by zedaxax

So if your only physically strenous activity is Sex - can it then be regarded as a sport?
:blink:

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Well see then you've got the athletic part but not necessarily the sport part.

Where's the competition? :shifty: