Israel vs. Palestine - reviving an old discussion

Hey all...

I have decided, as part of my mini "comeback" to FST to revive an old discussion topic that was originally started by kAb during the times FST was called the K-Lite forum and was using IPB.... :)



So, as Israel approaches it's date for removng all settlers from the Gaza strip and parts of the West Bank, what do you think of this move? For or against and why?


As an Israeli, I am totally for it. I think it's about time we Israelis got them crazy ass settlers out of where they don't belong and send them to the State of Israel..

The Palestinians deserve a country.. And hopefully this disengagement will lead to peace after many years of bombings, shootings, etc. etc.....


What do you all think about the Israeli-Palestinian "war"? Is it towards the end?
I think it's still far from the end.. because as of what we saw at Camp David some 6 years ago, we saw that Arafat was against what was offered, which is exactly what they (the Palestinians) wantedi n the first place - thus we can probably assume that even though all the settlers will be out of where they souldn't be, the Palestinians won't be happy and will want more (at least the extremists.....).
What do you think?

What are your stands?




Hope this topic is as succesful as the original one.


Rafi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tralalala

Hey all...

I have decided, as part of my mini "comeback" to FST to revive an old discussion topic that was originally started by kAb during the times FST was called the K-Lite forum and was using IPB.... :)



So, as Israel approaches it's date for removng all settlers from the Gaza strip and parts of the West Bank, what do you think of this move? For or against and why?


As an Israeli, I am totally for it. I think it's about time we Israelis got them crazy ass settlers out of where they don't belong and send them to the State of Israel..

The Palestinians deserve a country.. And hopefully this disengagement will lead to peace after many years of bombings, shootings, etc. etc.....


What do you all think about the Israeli-Palestinian "war"? Is it towards the end?
I think it's still far from the end.. because as of what we saw at Camp David some 6 years ago, we saw that Arafat was against what was offered, which is exactly what they (the Palestinians) wantedi n the first place - thus we can probably assume that even though all the settlers will be out of where they souldn't be, the Palestinians won't be happy and will want more (at least the extremists.....).
What do you think?

What are your stands?




Hope this topic is as succesful as the original one.


Rafi

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Hi Rafi.:)

Yes I think it is a good idea. The removal of any 'stumbling block' must be a step on the road to peace.:)

I dont think we will ever see peace in that region, there has been a conflict there for centuries.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yonki

I dont think we will ever see peace in that region, there has been a conflict there for centuries.

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come on yonki! lets be optimistic for peace in the region! :D

i am totally for the withdrawal however it would not have had to happen if the israelis hadnt entered that land in the first place..see that its a waste of money and its gonna unsettle the settlers.

@ yonki: the conflict you are thinking of started after the 6 day war in 1967......

anyway, hi BB, long time no see (on FST that is ;) ).

@chinook: too right you are.. millions of dollars went there and lives of Israeli soldiers were taken for noe reason, when instead the money could have gone to open old age homes, or homes for children with needs etc... shame Israel ever decided to go there in the first place..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

RAFI!!

Good to see you!

I see the Israelis moves of late (the wall, exiting Gaza, West Bank, etc.) as a more definitive strategy than has been tried previously; they are attempting to demonstrate (I think) that a conflict can be defused by the mere withdrawal of one side from the contest.

If they are successful (that is, barring any international interference-think U.N.), we will find over time that such an insulated proximity will sap much of the "fuel" which drives this historically and heretofore intractable mutual loathing.

As an aside-

Would that, along with our urge to "export democracy", we could manage to include (as a bonus!) the other precept that seems to be (these days) all the rage...oh, what was it, now?

Oh, yeah-
















The Separation of Church and State?

It would do wonders throughout the Islamic world, wouldn't it? :P

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Please hand your wooden spoon into the stores now! It is being misused.:rolleyes:

@tralala: I don't think it'll be over for everyone, but maybe this'll remove a lot of the support the nutters on the palestinian side have. Maybe, one day, everyone will see those fundamentalist nutters who'll still take innocent lives as nothing but terrorists, rather than holy warriors.

In any case, I think it's a step in the right direction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

The Separation of Church and State?

It would do wonders throughout the Islamic world, wouldn't it?

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Some more of it would probably not hurt the US either :P

I dont think that the withdrawal from Gaza will happen.

If they were going to enforce it, the Israeli's would be stopping more settlers from going into the villages/towns that are supposed to be withdrawn... not standing by and watching extremist right wing Israeli elements moving into them with guns.

I honestly hope i'm wrong, as it would be a huge step in the right direction of a long road :(

i still do think the withdrawal will take place

@Rat Faced - I am happy to brake it to you that you are wrong.. even horribly wrong :)

In the past few weeks maybe 3 nutter families went to live there thinking they would manage to stop the withdrawal (that by the way, is actually starting Sunday by closing off the northern West Bank to stop extremists from getting to Gaza to try stop the disengagement..).

@j2k4 - nice to be back :) how ya'll been doing here without me?
I didn't really follow your post as I'm pretty tired and can't follow posts with high language.... lol I'm going on a bit eh?

Well, lets just hope this "war" will be over soon so we don't have to worry no more about going on busses and co. again.. :D



Rafi

tralalala,

I suggest you look up what is happening at the former Palm Beach Hotel in the Gaza Strip as an example.

They have a basement full of arms and ammunition, have already shot 4 Palestinians and refused to hand over the suspects for questioning.. The IDF stands and watches as more and more "Settlers" arrive and does absolutely nothing.

The fact is that if they'd been Palestinians the IDF would have already flattened the place to get at the suspects, never mind watching as more and more Palestinians with Guns continued to arrive and build more barracades and booby traps.

Yes, they're even rigging the Hotel to blow as a last resort...

And there are already 60 families (yes, families.. they've taken the wives and kids) living there, with space for 160 families in the Hotel itself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnnY

@tralala: I don't think it'll be over for everyone, but maybe this'll remove a lot of the support the nutters on the palestinian side have. Maybe, one day, everyone will see those fundamentalist nutters who'll still take innocent lives as nothing but terrorists, rather than holy warriors.

In any case, I think it's a step in the right direction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j2k4

The Separation of Church and State?

It would do wonders throughout the Islamic world, wouldn't it?

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Some more of it would probably not hurt the US either :P

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Snny please do something with your avatar. Everytime I see it I think oh noess!! too much self loving in my youth has caught up with me.

As to to Rafi's question, I am beginning to think that the only true solution is one secular state that serves both Israeli and Palestinian. However, I appreciate that the change in thinking required on both sides is perhaps too great.

Consequently two viable states that provide something worth hanging on to for the Palestinians is probably the only way out of the impasse.

Many of the small radical settlements are motivated by religion and ideology and are deliberately provoking ill-feeling. It is right that these people are reigned in by Israel.

What one does with the couple of large secular and mostly friendly West Bank settlements like Ariel is a different matter.

What do I think about the whole ME situation? (don't look at my sig just yet >_< )

There will always be turmoil in that region, optimistic or not, you have to eventually wake up and face reality. I solely blame the UN and the US for this. If the whole state of Israel was never created I very much doubt that all this violence would not be taking place today, but I dont' want to be a hypocrite so I will face reality with the fact that you can't go back in time :P . To diffuse the situation there right now, pretty much impossible. The Israeli's will blame the Arabs for their bombings and killings and the Arabs will blame the Israeli's for their bombings and killings. Which ever way you look at it, but the media in this world is unique enough to always portray Israeli's as the victor and "good". Pretty sad that in this day and age you'd see something like that, manipulation of media based on the actual events is just disgracing, especially when it favours one side over another, I want the actual story, not opinoins, when I watch the news.

Other than that, I truly honestly hope that one day fighting will stop there and the people of Israel and Palestine can live in harmony. And I hope that day will come soon, because this conflict has been going on for way too long.

Good to have you back too Rafi, I saw you around the boards back in the day :) never knew that you left though.

@Rat Faced: That story is long gone.
Settlers thought they would do a "Massada 2" by suiciding if forced to leave. The cowards eventually decided not to do so and left the Palm Beach Hotel in Gush Katif.
As much as they think they are going to stop the withdrawal, it ain't gonna happen cos the plans have been made, the PLO has received maps and plans of what's gonna happen during and after the withdrawal.

I think the main reason for the nutter settlers to carry on their stupid "resistance" is because of what the media are making of it.... If the media would not have taken any notice then these crazy-ass settlers would stop doing what they are doing...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tralalala

@Rat Faced: That story is long gone.
Settlers thought they would do a "Massada 2" by suiciding if forced to leave. The cowards eventually decided not to do so and left the Palm Beach Hotel in Gush Katif.
As much as they think they are going to stop the withdrawal, it ain't gonna happen cos the plans have been made, the PLO has received maps and plans of what's gonna happen during and after the withdrawal.

I think the main reason for the nutter settlers to carry on their stupid "resistance" is because of what the media are making of it.... If the media would not have taken any notice then these crazy-ass settlers would stop doing what they are doing...

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According to this report there are still plenty of people there, although it may not be the original ones.

The BBC showed the scenes referred to by Rat Faced on TV yesterday.

it'll all be over please god in just over 2 months........ lets hope that we will then be able to get some peace round here....